Faileb for Caleb?

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WestCoastRam

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That's the rub. I wouldn't be drafting for Matthew Stafford. Without changes to the offense, I can honestly say that I'm a bit indifferent on his status in 2024 and beyond.

Harrison Jr. is said to be a generational talent. But my dilemma is that I'm not sure that Harrison the WR is that much more (if at all) a matchup problem than Bowers the TE.
Bruh.

Find someone who loves you the way Memphis loves Bowers.
 

Memphis Ram

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Bruh.

Find someone who loves you the way Memphis loves Bowers.
Harrison just may be the better player, but my dilemma trying to figure out if it easier to cover a stud WR with corners or a potentially lesser stud TE with LBs and Safties? I've heard of shutdown CBs. But I can't recall a shutdown LB or S.
 

WestCoastRam

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Harrison just may be the better player, but my dilemma trying to figure out if it easier to cover a stud WR with corners or a stud TE with LBs and Safties?

It's an interesting thought experiment but you can do so much more with a dominate player at the X spot. And when a player needs to be doubled from there, you open up the rest of the field. There are far more options to double, bracket, muddy the picture from the inside of the field out.

I've come around on Bowers for sure and wouldn't sneeze if we got him. But I believe Harrison is miles ahead of him in athleticism, talent and skill set.

Also, FWIW I think I'd prob pick one of the LTs over Bowers at this point in the draft.

I'm thinking Mayes, Harrison, Williams and then Fashanu, Alt and Bowers tied for 4th.
 

HitStick

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Or they could take the best player in the draft... the generational wide receiver.

If they do that, the better hit on a second round tackle, and third round center because drafting Harrison Jr is a sign of commitment to Stafford IMO
 

HitStick

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Harrison just may be the better player, but my dilemma trying to figure out if it easier to cover a stud WR with corners or a potentially lesser stud TE with LBs and Safties? I've heard of shutdown CBs. But I can't recall a shutdown LB or S.

Does Stafford even use his TEs? Does McVay? McVay had a dominant TE duo in Washington and tried to recreate it, but didn’t use them as primary targets.
 

Memento

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Honestly think that Bowers has a lot of Kelce’s and Gronkowski’s traits. He’s my top target over even MH2; I would take the elite tight end that we don’t have and add a receiver or two late.

I like Fashanu to the point where I wouldn’t mind if he was the pick, but he’ll go before we pick. And honestly, I think Cooper Beebe (who is getting vastly underrated as a potential left tackle) could have the exact same value in the mid-second that Alt, Lathan, or any other tackle who will go in the first round would have.
 

Flatlyner

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That's been my reasoning when fans say "we gotta draft a QB in April". IF they believe Stafford can play 2 more years (24 and 25), then there's no need to draft a QB in 2024. You don't want him to sit for multiple years but you don't want him to have to play right away either. Here's the deal....we rebuild the OL in 2024, win the Superbowl and try to run it back in 2025. Get the kid ready for 2026.
The problem is, will we be picking this high in the next few years? That always has to factor into it.
I mean, we could just pick the generational talent at WR.
Not unless we have a top 3 pick. I find that hard to fathom with the terrible teams who may not register another W for the rest of the season picking at top (Giants, Panthers, NEP). Harrison would be my unquestioned pick at #3. He's likely the most sure fired All Pro potential in the draft. You draft him if you can, period.
 

jap

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I mean, he's arguably the best player in the draft and the best WR to come out in 10 years. Why wouldn't we take him if he was there?
 You are essentially raising the old choosing value over need argument, and I won't argue with you there since I normally weigh in on the value side of that argument. That us how we got AD99.

That said, the Horns have neglected some important positions for so long that I found myself straying to the need end.

There is a variation of this player acquisition philosophy that goes, use FA for vital needs and the draft for value and least needs.
 

Memphis Ram

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It's an interesting thought experiment but you can do so much more with a dominate player at the X spot. And when a player needs to be doubled from there, you open up the rest of the field. There are far more options to double, bracket, muddy the picture from the inside of the field out.

I've come around on Bowers for sure and wouldn't sneeze if we got him. But I believe Harrison is miles ahead of him in athleticism, talent and skill set.

Also, FWIW I think I'd prob pick one of the LTs over Bowers at this point in the draft.

I'm thinking Mayes, Harrison, Williams and then Fashanu, Alt and Bowers tied for 4th.

I'm not so sure about that as Bowers could dominate lined up inside, outside, in the backfield and could force double teams, too.

What's really impressed me is that with all his receiving talents, he doesn't just get in the way, but he actually blocks for the running game, too.

Maybe, I'm just blinded by the ideal offense in my mind.

BTW, I think I'd take Alt over Fashanu. I like the pedigree and didn't like reading about the Penn State product's run blocking.
 
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jap

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That's the rub. I wouldn't be drafting for Matthew Stafford. Without changes to the offense, I can honestly say that I'm a bit indifferent on his status in 2024 and beyond.

Harrison Jr. is said to be a generational talent. But my dilemma is that I'm not sure that Harrison the WR is that much more (if at all) a matchup problem than Bowers the TE.
 Honestly, I have not started looking at many of these college prospects as yet. I am ignorant of Bowers. I know about MHJ because I wanted the Horns to draft him to pair with Isaac Bruce, although those two may have been almost too much like clones of each other.
 

Memphis Ram

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 Honestly, I have not started looking at many of these college prospects as yet. I am ignorant of Bowers. I know about MHJ because I wanted the Horns to draft him to pair with Isaac Bruce, although those two may have been almost too much like clones of each other.
You weren't alone. Ugh.....that Eddie Kennison selection.
 

WestCoastRam

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 You are essentially raising the old choosing value over need argument, and I won't argue with you there since I normally weigh in on the value side of that argument. That us how we got AD99.

That said, the Horns have neglected some important positions for so long that I found myself straying to the need end.

There is a variation of this player acquisition philosophy that goes, use FA for vital needs and the draft for value and least needs.
Yeah, and it's truly fantasy football right now to speculate about draft without seeing what we do in FA and our draft slots. Still fun tho
 

Merlin

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Does Stafford even use his TEs? Does McVay? McVay had a dominant TE duo in Washington and tried to recreate it, but didn’t use them as primary targets.
What is interesting is that Jordan Reed, who was his go-to in Washington, was the same height as Kupp. He was beefier, but I've always felt that Kupp is a mini-TE and WR hybrid. The two in direct comparison are not that much alike, but both did well in beating an assortment of matchups underneath consistently.

In McVay's offense you can call Kupp a WR and unlike Reed he could line up at X and still produce, but his usage is very much that big underneath weapon from the slot that no DB or LB can solo without getting either trucked or burned.

Nacua is another incarnation of the same mix of threat. He like the other two is 6'2" and the sort of hybrid that is tough for either a LB or DB to take on.

So what it seems like to me is that McVay has found the guys to do what he wants via the WR talent pool, and when it comes to the pure TE role that is left in his scheme he has struggled to find guys who can create a meaningful role from it. Prior to this last draft I was thinking that Sam LaPorta would be a target of his, as he is 6'3" with natural agility in/out of breaks and top pass game instincts, so very much a fit for what McVay wants. Of course we made out quite well with Avila in that round.

In many ways with Kupp in the slot and Higs off the end of the line blocking the Rams are in a stealth 12 set. Because Kupp blocks as well or better than any TE who is a pass game weapon in this league. So really the Rams have a dual TE attack, it's just a guy who is wearing a WR label. Going forward that doesn't mean the scheme wouldn't benefit from a TE who can block or feature in the pass game. If they were to take Bowers for example in this next draft it would be bad for Higs but for the offense it would add a layer of threat off the line that we have not had prior.

All that aside I do think the best thing you could add to this pass game would be a speed option out wide. Because Tutu has not been good enough and will not be good enough. And the Rams still have a problem with that speed element and lack of that threat when they face the best defenses.
 

WestCoastRam

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I'm not so sure about that as Bowers could dominate lined up inside, outside, in the backfield and could force double teams, too.

What's really impressed me is that with all his receiving talents, he doesn't just get in the way, but he actually blocks for the running game, too.

Maybe, I'm just blinded by the ideal offense in my mind.

BTW, I think I'd take Alt over Fashanu. I like the pedigree and didn't like reading about the Penn State product's run blocking.
You could line up Bowers outside but only on occasion (you're not maximizing his talents there) where you'd line up Harrison there all the time and literally tilt the field and force predictable coverages on the other side of the field.
 

jap

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Harrison just may be the better player, but my dilemma trying to figure out if it easier to cover a stud WR with corners or a potentially lesser stud TE with LBs and Safties? I've heard of shutdown CBs. But I can't recall a shutdown LB or S.

 Well, there was Derrick Brooks who played for Tampa Bay during the GSOT years, an LB with legit 4.4 speed in the 40-yard dash. He may have qualified as a shutdown LB since he could run with many speedy receivers.
 

WestCoastRam

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 Well, there was Derrick Brooks who played for Tampa Bay during the GSOT years, an LB with legit 4.4 speed in the 40-yard dash. He may have qualified as a shutdown LB since he could run with many speedy receivers.
Guy was good.

Thing is, you don't need a "shut down" LB or S. Not even sure what that is but it's less important to have dominate guys at LB and S since there are so many things you can do with coverages and calls in the middle of the field. Far less than what you can do at the boundary.
 

Memphis Ram

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 Well, there was Derrick Brooks who played for Tampa Bay during the GSOT years, an LB with legit 4.4 speed in the 40-yard dash. He may have qualified as a shutdown LB since he could run with many speedy receivers.
He may have been able to do it. Tampa Bay probably played what became named the Tampa 2 Zone most of the time.
 

WestCoastRam

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He may have been able to do it. Tampa Bay probably played what became named the Tampa 2 Zone most of the time.
The thing about the Tampa-2 is that you need a LB with speed to drop back to the middle third of the field almost like a middle fielder safety. Too few LBs can do that. Urlacher was another. Tampa-2 is really Cover 3 with different positions playing the spot drops at the end of the day... a point which other posters who profess to be really knowledgeable seem to miss all the time.
 

Memphis Ram

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You could line up Bowers outside but only on occasion (you're not maximizing his talents there) where you'd line up Harrison there all the time and literally tilt the field and force predictable coverages on the other side of the field.

Talent maximization? IMO, his talents can be maximized anywhere you put him.

You line of Bowers outside and isolate him and it's a mismatch and will draw attention.
Use him as a move TE. YAC. YAC. YAC. YAC. YAC.
Line him up as a FB. He can come out of the backfield ala 49ers Juszczyk and be trouble.

I believe the kid could even take a few carries like Debo Samuel and have defenders making business decisions like the Rams seem to make.

If used best, defenses wouldn't even know where he would even like up from play to play. That would have to cause some predictable coverages, IMO.

Yes. Harrison could tilt the field and force predictable coverages on the other side. He's a great WR. But I can't help but to believe that a lesser, deep threat WR with some size could do some of that, too.
 
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