Faileb for Caleb?

[Turducken]

Losing games for the tactical purpose of improving draft position (tanking) is dishonorable and worthy of heavy sanction. I don't expect McVay (or anyone he hires) to ever take part in it. But a GM's decision to offload talent for pennies on the dollar is acceptable (rebuild) even though it might strategically represent a season-long sub rosa tanking plan for better draft position.

Q1: does anyone else think that is what is going on here?

Q2: if it is going on, is it bad for the league?

Redirect Notice

 

[AvengerRam]

1. No.
2. I reject your premise.

 

[Turducken]

1. No.
2. I reject your premise.

Ok. If it were going on (somewhere else) would you think it was bad for the league?

 

[PARAM]

Ok. If it were going on (somewhere else) would you think it was bad for the league?

There are too many variables involved to even plan something like that. So let's say it's for Caleb......but Caleb tears his ACL and MCL in late November. Or an achilles? Or dislocates his throwing shoulder? All that planning and losing to have your prize target become a ghost. No, that shit don't happen in April. December? Well now we're talking about something completely different. And yes, trying something like that.....dismantling the roster in March/April with the aim to lose would be terrible for the league, not to mention dumb. How would you feel as a star player with 2 - 3 years left (in your mind) and believe that were happening? No. Can't do that to players who risk life and limb to play the game.

 

[AvengerRam]

Ok. If it were going on (somewhere else) would you think it was bad for the league?

Absolutely. While I don’t have a problem with a team playing young players for development purposes after they are mathematically eliminated, a year-long approach of that nature is definitely detrimental.

 

[So Ram]

Absolutely. While I don’t have a problem with a team playing young players for development purposes after they are mathematically eliminated, a year-long approach of that nature is definitely detrimental.

EXCUSE ME ? Well I’ll just view 2022 the way I view it.
For those others ? I understand.

Not going into depth,but 2023 is a totally different season & IMO it’s a total reset of seeing where The Rams are.

Sean Mcvay came to The Rams with a concept of how(he thought) to put a WINNING NFL team (franchise)together. He might have lost his vision & is NOW coming back to ground.

His LIFE has changed since he was The Youngest HC in NFL HISTORY!! Back to 2022 - those 3 CORE players are healthy & ready to ROLL. The question I have if at The End of 2022 any RAM FAN thinks those 3 players wouldn’t have been playing in The Playoffs,well then keep thinking.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I don't see our team as 'tanking' this year, but we have entered a short period where the Rams will be seriously re-adjusting our financial situation as far as moving forward successfully over the next couple of years. Stalwarts like Stafford, Donald & Kupp shouldn't really be relied on as long-term flourishing players, injury issues/age may start to become more of an issue. The Rams have shed numerous starters already for future CAP relief, and as we transition into a more developmental team for 2023, any significant amount of new injuries might easily impact us even more than in 2022, as hard as that may be to believe.
We are still a long way off to be discussing the Caleb Williams lottery, a lot can happen yet, although should the Rams land a top 4 or 5 draft pick next year, expect ROD to blow up.

 

[Turducken]

Absolutely. While I don’t have a problem with a team playing young players for development purposes after they are mathematically eliminated, a year-long approach of that nature is definitely detrimental.

I think it would be bad also, but I'm not sure you could ever prove it anyway.

Operating on game theory here, if the most likely result of strategy A would be a 6-7 win season in 2023 with a pick in the 9-15 range for 2024, versus strategy B with a 2-3 win season and a pick in the 1-3 range, i can imagine the temptation would be there, especially if B offered a better development path for younger players and there was an elite qb prospect.

I can make arguments either way based on this off-season. Snead's unwillingness to play hardball with Wagner, Ramsay or Robinson could reflect his desire to continue cultivating a player friendly reputation throughout the league (it is part of our brand), but there is a fine line between friendly and pushover.

Absent an admission, there is really no way of knowing whether this is happening here (or anywhere) so I guess the "bad for league" question really depends upon whether most NFL fans believe it to be a normal (but unspoken) occurrence.

 

[KA210927]

I think they definitely are aiming for next year and not this year. The salary cap sort of made their hands tied this year with not many options. They could have tried to piece something together but it would have been similar to last years team and we all saw they didn’t have that winning magic. I think it’s smart they cleared a ton of room and have given themselves lots of options to come back fast and make a run next year for AD/Staffords last chance at a Super Bowl.

I could see them taking Caleb especially if Stafford is clearly worse this year but I’m not sure the Rams will be in position for the #1 pick. (I would guess top 3-10).

And I don’t think it is bad for the league. The salary cap makes it so sometimes you have to plan for the future.

 

[AvengerRam]

EXCUSE ME ? Well I’ll just view 2022 the way I view it.
For those others ? I understand.

I’m not sure how that is responsive to anything I’ve said in this, or any other, discussion.

 

[AZRams]

And I say again, even if we wanted to could we really out-suck the likes of HOU, Indy, CHI, CLE or even the Cards?

 

[BuffaloRam]

AZ Shit Birds are tanking for sure

 

[WestCoastRam]

It would be awesome if we had a FAQ up on what's been reported so far this offseason so questions like this could be answered somewhat by going there about what the Rams intentions are (though I guess they could be remarkably different in secret).

To the point about tanking, I don't think anyone's straight up tanked in the NFL going into a season. Sure they may go with young and unproven talent to see what they can provide with the idea that they will draft higher to replace them in the next draft but the draft is such a crapshoot to rely on that strategy. What I do think we've seen is one or two teams strategically pull players from games at the end of the season (didn't the Bucs do this in the last game of one season) to lose a game and ensure a specific pick in the draft. (Or the failure to do that - see Houston last season).

 

[Turducken]

And I say again, even if we wanted to could we really out-suck the likes of HOU, Indy, CHI, CLE or even the Cards?

I didn't want to open this door, but since you all-but-dared me:

We could trade Kupp now and trade AD after June 1st in return for a basket of high picks over the next two drafts. We'd also open up more cap space in 24 and solidify the top pick.

If AD thinks next season is pointless to his legacy (stats down bc he's triple teamed every play), he may want to leave anyway.

 

[Allen2McVay]

...

We could trade Kupp now and trade AD after June 1st in return for a basket of high picks over the next two drafts. We'd also open up more cap space in 24 and solidify the top pick.

...

If Ramsey got the Rams a mid-third round pick, why would Kupp and Donald get back 'a basket of high picks'?

 

[Malibu]

I have been saying they might be tanking some of the moves Snead has made seems questionable to jmo. But conversely like some have said the FO realized their hands were tied and why not take it all now rather than piecemeal and still not get the result of a deep playoff run or possible Superbowl.

The question is where does the team and players really stand - AD and Stafford specifically. I am assuming barring injury Kupp could remain a Ram for 5+ years. On the other hand AD has flirted with retirement, Stafford may not have flirted with it but his body may have for him so these are big factors on tanking or a 100% rebuild. If the team feels Stafford with a better OL has at least two and up to 5 years that is a deciding factor in their thought process and if AD is pretty much gone in 2 years fulfilling his renegotiated contract then that is a deciding factor as well how to proceed for long range planning.

To me tanking for Caleb Williams is a calculated extraordinary smart move for the long term viability of the franchise assuming he doesn't get hurt. He will be the hands down the best #1 to come out since Luck imo. He has that IT factor magic whatever you want to call it. I've watched every USC game last year he is sensational. But to say McVay likes losing to snag CW doesn't seem likely.

Lastly one thing I will say about CW whoever gets the #1 pick in the draft aint trading it period so only getting that pick will matter.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Lastly one thing I will say about CW whoever gets the #1 pick in the draft aint trading it period so only getting that pick will matter.

I agree. You got to be the worst team. I am having a hard time seeing a team with McVay, Stafford, Donald, Kupp losing enough games for #1 overall.

 

[So Ram]

I’m not sure how that is responsive to anything I’ve said in this, or any other, discussion.

I guess it wasn’t,since your talking season out look. The Rams wanted to win it all.
—Later once things started to slide they took extra caution on Players health that maybe other wise wouldn’t have.

—Math wasn’t my best subject & maybe English either .

 

[Turducken]

If Ramsey got the Rams a mid-third round pick, why would Kupp and Donald get back 'a basket of high picks'?

Elite WR1's are more valuable than elite CB's. The top 10 CB contracts average $18m per season. For WR's it's $25.3m. Also, this is a weak draft for WRs and Kupp would be cheap against the cap (because we'd swallow a lot of dead money).

AD is a bit different to evaluate because he is in his own class and his value would depend on his willingness to play out both years left on his contract. But he would also come fairly cheap (more deadmoney for us - yay!).

Last, I don't think we got anything close to fairmarket for Ramsey because we let him pick his destination.

 

[thirteen28]

Chili, when the main course, should definitely have beans in it.

Oh, wait, wrong thread, sorry.