The Goff-season Thread

[FrantikRam]

@FrantikRam
Respectfully, I think that we are a truly great, not just kinda good, o line away from a SB. Matthew Stafford is a pocket passer just like Jerad Goff. It's not like we have Michael Vick taking snaps out of the shotgun whilst running designed QB runs.

A pocket passer is a pocket passer is a pocket passer...it doesnt matter which way you spin it my man.

Give my boy Goff a clean 2.5 to 2.75 seconds to throw the ball and watch him dismantle any secondary.

It's my opinion that the OL was good this year - the game that bothered me most this year for Goff was the first Niner game and he had clean pockets all night.

It's obviously not shared by many people but if you factor in every position on offense and the coach, there not many QBs that have a better situation than Goff.

And AD only has a few years of THIS type of play left - Goff may well his his prime, but by the time he does, the rest of the team might not be good enough to win it all - but IMO it is now.

The obvious rebuttal is that the defense let us down but if Goff was just average, IMO we get a first round bye and it's a completely different story.

 

[FrantikRam]

The scenario is a made up fantasy and you're assuming all other parts would play the same with a different qb.

Which defines not only the purpose of a message board, but free agency and scouting as well. It's all about imagining what said player would or would not do in different circumstances.

Imagine if the Rams said "nah Floyd is trash, can't imagine him having success here", or if McVay was like "Robert Woods? He never showed much in Buffalo - no thanks"

 

[Bearrister]

Drew Brees was absolutely dominant over the last 13 years. He'll go down as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. He led the Saints to a Super Bowl win in 2009, and then, he never made it again. Over a dominant decade of play (2011 to 2020), Brees couldn't make the Super Bowl a single time. I think we're one good to great OL away from having a team that could compete for the Super Bowl. But the simple truth is that even if Goff turns into a great QB, there's no guarantee we make another Super Bowl during his career.

I hope we do. But it is very possible we don't. That's why I think it's crazy to trade for Stafford. The truly elite QBs have a hard time making it to the Super Bowl. Why would we go all in on a guy who has been middle of the pack during his career, never won a thing, and is headed towards the twilight of his career? I'd rather take my chances that Goff makes a jump heading into his prime. If he does, we have many years ahead of us of having a chance. If he doesn't, we can figure out how to move forward. I see Stafford as a poor bet.

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Hit the nail on the head.

I think that was another quote from Dan Campbell’s press conference the other day.

‘Take a bite out of a knee cap’ and then ‘hammer a nail into the opponent’s head’

 

[Tano]

Good list although I'd have to disagree on either of these guys. First, Dome QB's statistically have an advantage of playing indoors a majority of the season, so straight up numbers arent exactly fair. But playoff wise? Ryan choked big time in the SB and has 11 turnovers in 10 post season games. Goff has only 2 turnovers in 6 playoff games, (and 1 INT was completely on Gurley) while Stafford has 5 turnovers in just 3 games.
And Darnold? Yeah, just no....

Well that's why I said maybe on Stafford and Ryan.

I was playing Devil's Advocate on those two.

As to Darnold - I said his head is not on straight so no

But if Darnold ever got his head on straight, then maybe. I still believe he has a ton of ability that has been completely wasted by a horrible Jets team and I doubt he will ever be able to overcome this horrible start.

 

[Bearrister]

Well that's why I said maybe on Stafford and Ryan.

I was playing Devil's Advocate on those two.

As to Darnold - I said his head is not on straight so no

But if Darnold ever got his head on straight, then maybe. I still believe he has a ton of ability that has been completely wasted by a horrible Jets team and I doubt he will ever be able to overcome this horrible start.

I’d be intrigued with Darnold as a back-up/competition for Goff, but definitely not as an outright replacement. I have no idea if he’d fit in our salary cap situation though.

 

[thirteen28]

I wonder how goff would look if mcvay ran more gun vs having goff under center. I believe he's more comfortable in the gun.

Be nice if he called a running play out of the gun every now and then just to keep defenses honest.

 

[Giles]

Be nice if he called a running play out of the gun every now and then just to keep defenses honest.

Absolutely and Akers has experience and success doing it. But i guess that's just not mcvays offense.

 

[jrry32]

In my scenario we would have had him all year, in which case we'd have had home field. With a below average QB we won 10 games, an average one we win 11-13 - and Stafford was on the higher end of average this year with an offense worse at most positions and one of the worst head coaches in the NFL - not to mention the OC that Seahawk fans spent years wanting fired.

So in my scenario we wouldn't have played the Packers yet - we'd likely be playing them this week.

Your scenario has no basis in reality. We have no idea how Stafford or the team might have performed. It's guesswork at best. For all we know, Stafford would have gotten injured and missed part of the year, putting us in the exact same position. You assume the best case scenario.

The career loser talk is funny - it's pretty likely Goff would be a "career loser" without McVay. Football is a team sport so I don't care how much one player has lost or won.

It's easy to make conclusory statements that you'll never have to prove. Does Brady have a career without Belichick? What happens to Brees if he doesn't sign with New Orleans? Is he the same QB? What happens if the 49ers take Rodgers instead of Alex Smith? Does Rodgers ever become great? What we know is what has happened. Stafford has not played winning football in Detroit. Goff has here.

 

[payote75]

Didn't know where to put this and didn't want to start a thread but why are the lions dismantling our front office and after Aubrey Pleasant? Go suck somewhere else take other people's organisation apart and then to top that the seahags are hot for Waldron for their OC position. Geezez Christ man. Off season hasn't begun and we ravaged internally already. I blame Bonameago for this and he sucked anyway!!!! Lol Why doesn't someone go dismantle the chiefs. They even possibly get to keep Bienememy??? Like for real???

 

[Gandalf]

Most of our players are in their mid twenties. Goff's age fits in with the rest of the team. Our window is far from closing, we are still a young team.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Most of our players are in their mid twenties. Goff's age fits in with the rest of the team. Our window is far from closing, we are still a young team.

^^This

 

[FrantikRam]

Your scenario has no basis in reality. We have no idea how Stafford or the team might have performed. It's guesswork at best. For all we know, Stafford would have gotten injured and missed part of the year, putting us in the exact same position. You assume the best case scenario.



It's easy to make conclusory statements that you'll never have to prove. Does Brady have a career without Belichick? What happens to Brees if he doesn't sign with New Orleans? Is he the same QB? What happens if the 49ers take Rodgers instead of Alex Smith? Does Rodgers ever become great? What we know is what has happened. Stafford has not played winning football in Detroit. Goff has here.

And yet if you took out all of the Rams and Lions fans and polled the rest of NFL fans, they'd most likely say Stafford is better than Goff. And again, just look to Watson vs Goff for this season to prove how meaningless it can be to evaluate a player on whether the team won or lost.

 

[Gandalf]

I mostly agree with this list. The only non-elite QB’s I’d seriously consider are Stafford, Ryan, and maybe Carr (although I’m much more lukewarm about Carr). Herbert has promise but we have to see if he continues to develop.

Josh Allen - he had a great season but he also had an elite WR, and we’ll need to see if he can continue this level of play. I wouldn’t lump him in the “elite” category until he shows this isn’t just 1 great year. Remember that he was viewed as an absolute bum (see: Jalen Ramsey) until recently.

I get the point that Goff is making elite money and we hope for elite play. But we also have to deal with the reality that we’re stuck with his contract and realistically he’s not going anywhere. We could be in an even worse situation at QB.

Last year Allen wasn't a very good passer, but that has changed this year, he has gotten a lot better. If I was building a team, he would be in my top 3 with Mahomes and Watson.

 

[LA_Rams_#29]

I will say.. With Holmes and Agnew in Detroit's front office. Les won't have to search for their phone numbers if a Stafford for Goff trade were a possibility .

 

[kurtfaulk]

And yet if you took out all of the Rams and Lions fans and polled the rest of NFL fans, they'd most likely say Stafford is better than Goff. And again, just look to Watson vs Goff for this season to prove how meaningless it can be to evaluate a player on whether the team won or lost.

You mean box score fans?

Nah, the only opinion that matters is McVay's opinion.

If they trade Goff then the question is answered.

.

 

[MachS]

Give my boy Goff a clean 2.5 to 2.75 seconds to throw the ball and watch him dismantle any secondary.

Goff had the 10th best pocket time in the NFL. There's your 2.5 seconds... I agree the line could be better, but the line has been getting all the blame around here and its crazy to me. They weren't that bad this season. People have forgotten what the line looked like last year. But I get people wanting to deflect all the blame off of Goff so I understand. I gave Goff the benefit of the doubt after the OL injuries last year and zero running game. But the line was much improved this season and we had a top 10 rushing attack. Also he had the #1 defense supporting him. He doesn't get a pass this year.

 

[jrry32]

And yet if you took out all of the Rams and Lions fans and polled the rest of NFL fans, they'd most likely say Stafford is better than Goff. And again, just look to Watson vs Goff for this season to prove how meaningless it can be to evaluate a player on whether the team won or lost.

And yet, Stafford is a perennial loser who has done little to elevate his franchise. He also missed half the season last year and played part of this season with injuries. You assume the best case scenario. That Stafford comes here, stays healthy, and plays at least as well as he did in Detroit this year. Neither of those things are guaranteed. That's why these fantasy scenarios are pointless. It's easy for me to say we'd be a better team with Watson. Because he's clearly a better QB than Goff. Stafford isn't. He falls into that same tier of QBing. And Goff has actually room for growth, whereas Stafford will soon be 33 years old.

 

[PhillyRam]

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Goff had the 10th best pocket time in the NFL. There's your 2.5 seconds... I agree the line could be better, but the line has been getting all the blame around here and its crazy to me. They weren't that bad this season. People have forgotten what the line looked like last year. But I get people wanting to deflect all the blame off of Goff so I understand. I gave Goff the benefit of the doubt after the OL injuries last year and zero running game. But the line was much improved this season and we had a top 10 rushing attack. Also he had the #1 defense supporting him. He doesn't get a pass this year.

Remove roll outs and compare 7 step drops on 3rd and 7 or more and let's see what his pressure rate is.

 

[PhillyRam]

Last year Allen wasn't a very good passer, but that has changed this year, he has gotten a lot better. If I was building a team, he would be in my top 3 with Mahomes and Watson.

Last two playoff games has essentially put together zero TD drives.

I know another QB who would be roasted for that.