The Goff-season Thread

[Bearrister]

Following up on earlier posts in this thread about QB’s who would’ve done better with the 2020 Rams and/or a suitable replacement for Goff going forward here are the highlights of this free agency class (taken from the ESPN article):

Dak Prescott (realistically Dallas is resigning or franchising him) Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Mitchell Trubisky, Jameis Winston, Tyrod Taylor, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jacoby Brissett, Colt McCoy and Nate Sudfeld.

So would anyone take one of these guys as a Goff replacement? I wouldn’t. Competition/back-up sure, but not a replacement.

 

[badnews]

Stafford through his age-26 season
77 games
35-42 record
1848/3099
59.6%
21,714 passing yards
7.0 YPA
131 passing TDs
4.2% TD%
85 Ints
2.7% Int%
83.6 Passer Rating
1 Pro Bowl Appearance
2 Playoff Appearances (0-2 record)

Jared Goff through his age-26 season
69 games
42-27 record
1536/2421
63.4%
18,171 passing yards
7.5 YPA
107 passing TDs
4.4% TD%
55 Ints
2.3% Int%
91.5 Passer Rating
2 Pro Bowl Apperances
3 Playoff Appearances (3-3 record)

Matt Stafford from his age-27 season forward
88 games
39-48-1 record
2050/3125
65.6%
23,395 passing yards
7.5 YPA
151 passing TDs
4.8% TD%
59 Ints
1.9% Int%
96.2 Passer Rating
0 Pro Bowl Appearances
1 Playoff Appearance (0-1 record)

Young Goff has been a much better QB than young Stafford. Look at the jump Stafford made once he hit his prime. I don't know why so many people are unwilling to wait and see what Goff is capable of doing once he hits his prime.

You're preaching to the choir my friend.
Thanks for the data, it aligns with what I was thinking...

 

[badnews]

Disagree entirely...when Stafford was running around avoiding sacks to get the ball to Megatron it wouldn't of worked for Goff and Goff had gurley a beast at the time so argument to be made both ways. The lions haven't stopped being shit though that's the thing. Goff had a half of season in the outhouse then went to the penthouse. Yes he played well but the organisation made changes great changes and fave give stability weapons a line etc.

I don't disagree about some of the points you're making about comparisons... but I do disagree with the idea that an old Stafford would be an upgrade to a young Goff.
I just don't buy it.

Oddly enough, college QB Goff was quite good at moving through garbage protection and finding someone to get the ball to.
Im not sure where that skill has went but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Goff finds it again.

Sometimes I think people forget that we have seen every snap Goff has ever played in a pro style offense. Nearly every snap he's ever taken under center and nearly every time he has had to actually read a secondary.
Goff came in as pure, raw arm talent and a clean injury history. Extremely inexperienced compared to most QB prospects. He hasn't even approached his prime yet imo.

I'm all for pushing him. I'm sure competition will bring out the best in him.... but I'm literally NOWHERE near giving up on him!

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

If the Rams dump goff for Stafford i think i will need to take a break for awhile.

.

 

[FrantikRam]

That's a testament to how much McVay went out of his way to hide his lines deficiencies... and a testament to how weird PFFs rating systems are

Which is fine.

Problem is, everyone ate it up last year when they ranked our line 31st. Can't cite them as a reason for Goff struggling last year when they ranked them 31st but then ignore it this year when they're ranked high.

 

[payote75]

I know that's whats killing me that he knows what's its like to play under shitty conditions and succeed in college we need that now. Oh f.y.i. bud I don't think I said I'd do the trade outright....I think I said I'd do it if maybe we had an air apparent or someone mcvay was grooming....if I said otherwise I apologize. I also right at this moment not sure I'd do a straight up trade based on age. I'd have to really weigh out pros and cons lol right now the only person available that i wouldnt think twice about is Watson.

 

[Giles]

I don't disagree about some of the points you're making about comparisons... but I do disagree with the idea that an old Stafford would be an upgrade to a young Goff.
I just don't buy it.

Oddly enough, college QB Goff was quite good at moving through garbage protection and finding someone to get the ball to.
Im not sure where that skill has went but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Goff finds it again.

Sometimes I think people forget that we have seen every snap Goff has ever played in a pro style offense. Nearly every snap he's ever taken under center and nearly every time he has had to actually read a secondary.
Goff came in as pure, raw arm talent and a clean injury history. Extremely inexperienced compared to most QB prospects. He hasn't even approached his prime yet imo.

I'm all for pushing him. I'm sure competition will bring out the best in him.... but I'm literally NOWHERE near giving up on him!

I wonder how goff would look if mcvay ran more gun vs having goff under center. I believe he's more comfortable in the gun.

 

[FrantikRam]

Stafford through his age-26 season
77 games
35-42 record
1848/3099
59.6%
21,714 passing yards
7.0 YPA
131 passing TDs
4.2% TD%
85 Ints
2.7% Int%
83.6 Passer Rating
1 Pro Bowl Appearance
2 Playoff Appearances (0-2 record)

Jared Goff through his age-26 season
69 games
42-27 record
1536/2421
63.4%
18,171 passing yards
7.5 YPA
107 passing TDs
4.4% TD%
55 Ints
2.3% Int%
91.5 Passer Rating
2 Pro Bowl Apperances
3 Playoff Appearances (3-3 record)

Matt Stafford from his age-27 season forward
88 games
39-48-1 record
2050/3125
65.6%
23,395 passing yards
7.5 YPA
151 passing TDs
4.8% TD%
59 Ints
1.9% Int%
96.2 Passer Rating
0 Pro Bowl Appearances
1 Playoff Appearance (0-1 record)

Young Goff has been a much better QB than young Stafford. Look at the jump Stafford made once he hit his prime. I don't know why so many people are unwilling to wait and see what Goff is capable of doing once he hits his prime.

I'd trade Goff straight up for Stafford because Stafford is a better QB right now and the Rams are ready to win now.

Your point about Goff not yet being in his prime is a good one - but in the NFL you only get so many chances. I believe with 2018 Goff we win the Super Bowl this year. With 2020 Stafford I also think we win it all this year.

NFL windows don't last long and this team is ready to win.

IMO we are a QB away, and I think waiting on Goff is a gamble...that's why I'm unwilling to wait.

What doesn't get talked about enough is that were slowly wasting the career of possibly the best defensive lineman in NFL history.

All my opinions obviously which some will disagree with, but you said you don't know why people aren't willing to wait - for me that's why.

 

[jrry32]

I'd trade Goff straight up for Stafford because Stafford is a better QB right now and the Rams are ready to win now.

IMO, that's a remarkably shortsighted move that would almost certainly backfire on this franchise.

Your point about Goff not yet being in his prime is a good one - but in the NFL you only get so many chances. I believe with 2018 Goff we win the Super Bowl this year. With 2020 Stafford I also think we win it all this year.

We don't win the Super Bowl with 2020 Stafford. He wasn't going to beat Green Bay with the defense performing the way it did. The guy hasn't won a single playoff game in his career. The last time he was in the playoffs, he posted a shit performance against the Seahawks. The time before that, he put up numbers that look solid on the surface against Dallas, but he was as responsible as anybody for the massive chokejob Detroit pulled in that game. They were leading 17-7 at half and 20-7 in the 3rd quarter. Dallas scored 17 unanswered while Detroit's offense sputtered in the second half. The guy isn't a winner. He comes up short when it matters.

And before you say Stafford has never had the defense, that Lions team that choked against the Cowboys had the #3 defense in the NFL in PPG and #2 in YPG.

NFL windows don't last long and this team is ready to win.

IMO we are a QB away, and I think waiting on Goff is a gamble...that's why I'm unwilling to wait.

I'd rather gamble on Goff than trade for a career loser who has struggled to stay healthy of late.

What doesn't get talked about enough is that were slowly wasting the career of possibly the best defensive lineman in NFL history.

So we should trade away our young QB who has led us to the Super Bowl and still has the potential to be very good or great for the guy who wasted the career of one of the best WRs of all time? I'd rather gamble on a young guy than trade for an old guy who has never been good enough.

All my opinions obviously which some will disagree with, but you said you don't know why people aren't willing to wait - for me that's why.

Yeah, I guess so. I could understand not wanting to wait if we were talking about Deshaun Watson, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. But Matt Stafford has never been a top 10 QB during his career, is a career loser, and has never done a thing in the playoffs (arguably choking away two of the three playoff games in which he played in the 4th quarter, with the other being a blowout loss).

 

[Gandalf]

I'd trade Goff straight up for Stafford because Stafford is a better QB right now and the Rams are ready to win now.

Your point about Goff not yet being in his prime is a good one - but in the NFL you only get so many chances. I believe with 2018 Goff we win the Super Bowl this year. With 2020 Stafford I also think we win it all this year.

NFL windows don't last long and this team is ready to win.

IMO we are a QB away, and I think waiting on Goff is a gamble...that's why I'm unwilling to wait.

What doesn't get talked about enough is that were slowly wasting the career of possibly the best defensive lineman in NFL history.

All my opinions obviously which some will disagree with, but you said you don't know why people aren't willing to wait - for me that's why.

Isn't trading away a chunk of our future to win now what we have been doing the last 4 years? We have traded away so many 1rst round picks for win now players that I don't remember what a 1rst rounder is any more. You can't say that the Rams have not tried to win it all.

The issue of wasting Donald's career is talked about a lot. He has won the DPY twice, been to the pro bowl every year, been to the superbowl, signed to a record contract and will be a first ballot hall of famer. The Rams have done everything they could to win now. I just don't see the argument.

He has had the best career in Rams history, hardly a waste.

 

[Ramit]

@FrantikRam
Respectfully, I think that we are a truly great, not just kinda good, o line away from a SB. Matthew Stafford is a pocket passer just like Jerad Goff. It's not like we have Michael Vick taking snaps out of the shotgun whilst running designed QB runs.

A pocket passer is a pocket passer is a pocket passer...it doesnt matter which way you spin it my man.

Give my boy Goff a clean 2.5 to 2.75 seconds to throw the ball and watch him dismantle any secondary.

 

[badnews]

49 to go...
#thousandpoststare

 

[UKram]

I love Stafford I think he is decent to great QB .. and I’ll always respect him for the play he got hurt and went back in and threw a winning TD .

Alas I don’t get the logic of getting rid of a 26 Goff who again hasn’t had a losing season in 4 years been To the playoffs in 3 outta 4 years for a Qb who is coming to the end of his career

 

[jrry32]

@FrantikRam
Respectfully, I think that we are a truly great, not just kinda good, o line away from a SB. Matthew Stafford is a pocket passer just like Jerad Goff. It's not like we have Michael Vick taking snaps out of the shotgun whilst running designed QB runs.

A pocket passer is a pocket passer is a pocket passer...it doesnt matter which way you spin it my man.

Give my boy Goff a clean 2.5 to 2.75 seconds to throw the ball and watch him dismantle any secondary.

Drew Brees was absolutely dominant over the last 13 years. He'll go down as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. He led the Saints to a Super Bowl win in 2009, and then, he never made it again. Over a dominant decade of play (2011 to 2020), Brees couldn't make the Super Bowl a single time. I think we're one good to great OL away from having a team that could compete for the Super Bowl. But the simple truth is that even if Goff turns into a great QB, there's no guarantee we make another Super Bowl during his career.

I hope we do. But it is very possible we don't. That's why I think it's crazy to trade for Stafford. The truly elite QBs have a hard time making it to the Super Bowl. Why would we go all in on a guy who has been middle of the pack during his career, never won a thing, and is headed towards the twilight of his career? I'd rather take my chances that Goff makes a jump heading into his prime. If he does, we have many years ahead of us of having a chance. If he doesn't, we can figure out how to move forward. I see Stafford as a poor bet.

 

[Ballhawk]

@FrantikRam
Respectfully, I think that we are a truly great, not just kinda good, o line away from a SB. Matthew Stafford is a pocket passer just like Jerad Goff. It's not like we have Michael Vick taking snaps out of the shotgun whilst running designed QB runs.

A pocket passer is a pocket passer is a pocket passer...it doesnt matter which way you spin it my man.

Give my boy Goff a clean 2.5 to 2.75 seconds to throw the ball and watch him dismantle any secondary.

This is correct! And it's not like Goff hasn't' been good before. Back a couple of years ago he was pretty much top five in the league.

He hasn't forgotten how to play, the team has changed around him.

 

[nighttrain]

this draft the biggest need is to replace Blythe at center with a stout pass defender, giving Goff the ability to step forward in the pocket, could not do this last season, hence a whole lotta rollouts and half the field for the passing game. + add a real deep threat....
train

 

[Ellard80]

Stafford may not be any better than goff...

However - the only way i consider it is.. if we can somehow get more cap space.

 

[Juice]

I know I'm wishing more than I am thinking, but Goff will turn it around people. I hope he doesn't disappoint, but, as others have said here already, a better offensive line to free up the tight ends will be essential. We just suck at pass pro.

 

[FrantikRam]

IMO, that's a remarkably shortsighted move that would almost certainly backfire on this franchise.



We don't win the Super Bowl with 2020 Stafford. He wasn't going to beat Green Bay with the defense performing the way it did. The guy hasn't won a single playoff game in his career. The last time he was in the playoffs, he posted a shit performance against the Seahawks. The time before that, he put up numbers that look solid on the surface against Dallas, but he was as responsible as anybody for the massive chokejob Detroit pulled in that game. They were leading 17-7 at half and 20-7 in the 3rd quarter. Dallas scored 17 unanswered while Detroit's offense sputtered in the second half. The guy isn't a winner. He comes up short when it matters.

And before you say Stafford has never had the defense, that Lions team that choked against the Cowboys had the #3 defense in the NFL in PPG and #2 in YPG.



I'd rather gamble on Goff than trade for a career loser who has struggled to stay healthy of late.



So we should trade away our young QB who has led us to the Super Bowl and still has the potential to be very good or great for the guy who wasted the career of one of the best WRs of all time? I'd rather gamble on a young guy than trade for an old guy who has never been good enough.



Yeah, I guess so. I could understand not wanting to wait if we were talking about Deshaun Watson, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. But Matt Stafford has never been a top 10 QB during his career, is a career loser, and has never done a thing in the playoffs (arguably choking away two of the three playoff games in which he played in the 4th quarter, with the other being a blowout loss).

In my scenario we would have had him all year, in which case we'd have had home field. With a below average QB we won 10 games, an average one we win 11-13 - and Stafford was on the higher end of average this year with an offense worse at most positions and one of the worst head coaches in the NFL - not to mention the OC that Seahawk fans spent years wanting fired.

So in my scenario we wouldn't have played the Packers yet - we'd likely be playing them this week.

The career loser talk is funny - it's pretty likely Goff would be a "career loser" without McVay. Football is a team sport so I don't care how much one player has lost or won.

 

[Giles]

In my scenario we would have had him all year, in which case we'd have had home field. With a below average QB we won 10 games, an average one we win 11-13 - and Stafford was on the higher end of average this year with an offense worse at most positions and one of the worst head coaches in the NFL - not to mention the OC that Seahawk fans spent years wanting fired.

So in my scenario we wouldn't have played the Packers yet - we'd likely be playing them this week.

The career loser talk is funny - it's pretty likely Goff would be a "career loser" without McVay. Football is a team sport so I don't care how much one player has lost or won.

The scenario is a made up fantasy and you're assuming all other parts would play the same with a different qb.