Jeff Fisher says he left Rams in 'good shape,' lauds Sean McVay

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Dxmissile

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No the problem is you're down playing the contributions of the free agents McVay and Snead brought on while also boosting the roster that Fisher built. We differ on this and that's ok it's an agree to disagree. Fisher left as a whole a mediocre roster with some talent and a lot of people who weren't coached up to being good. Sorry you want to discount that but as head coach with total roster control he has to make sure both happens. He was adequate at best at building a roster. He failed miserably at coaching. Best I'll say of his roster building is it was adequate.
I think we agree you’re just focused on the wrong aspect of this thread. It’s about how the overall picture of the roster not them needing to be coached up it’s the fact that majority of all the major contributors are from fisher draft classes and free agent pick ups.

I’m not downplaying what McVay has to do because that’s not the topic of this thread.

The topic of this thread is the relation of how many new people McVay needed compared to Fisher when he took over. If you don’t think this roster was in good shape for McVay then yeah it is agree to disagree.

Jared Goff Gurley Saffold Havenstein Brown RB Brown Brockers Trumaine Cody Davis, Troy Hill, Joyner Olgetree Barron Quinn Westbrook Littleton GZ Hekker Tavon Cooper Hager Matt Longacre McQuaid, mike Thomas Hemingway Higbee Darrell Williams Morgan Fox dominque Easley Carlos Thompson Cameron Lynch marquis Christian Blake Countess

That’s just what I can name off memory. That’s a very good start for a roster for a new head coach no matter how it’s spint
 

bluecoconuts

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Jeff Fisher stockpiled some talent, but when you're constantly drafting high, that's to be expected.

The reality is that he completely misused talent, which makes me think that he gets lucky more than he's really smart.

I mean this entire board was saying we should move Joyner to safety, and Fisher, the defensive guru supposedly, couldn't see this? It took Wade all of about 30 seconds.

I don't discredit what Fisher did, I long said he was laying the foundation and a younger coach would take us into the playoffs and beyond, but I wouldn't give him as much credit as he's suggesting he should get. We had to move players to better positions because he couldn't see it. I also think that we'll be shedding a few more Fisher contracts.
 

Ram65

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He could say whom he wanted, but Demoff does the contracts and makes those calls. He still does. He's the money guy and will be probably as long as SK owns the Rams.

I would like a link.

Demoff puts the contract terms and money together. He doesn't say who gets the contract. Let's say McVay wants to resign Watkins. It's Demoff's job to make it happen. Demoff doesn't tell McVay he wants Watkins and signs him.
 

OldSchool

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I think we agree you’re just focused on the wrong aspect of this thread. It’s about how the overall picture of the roster not them needing to be coached up it’s the fact that majority of all the major contributors are from fisher draft classes and free agent pick ups.

The overall picture of the roster is average and not something IMHO I'd brag about if it was me that had built it. He hit a couple home runs. But he had more misses than we care to count. Coaching up honestly is part of how he left the roster. It's fine to draft well but you have to coach them up they go hand in hand especially for the guy responsible for doing both. So he left a couple Pro Bowlers on the roster and a bunch of guys in need of coaching. Anybody on this forum can draft like he did. Hell some of us might have a better track record than him. His job didn't end when he drafted a guy.

And sorry but to discount free agent signings or draft picks contribution after he was gone makes no sense. Snead and McVay replaced Fishers failures with the same tools Fisher had. And have by and large succeeded where he could not. That is the major point I'm making.
 

RamDino

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One final thought... Fish inherited Bradford, Steven Jackson, Roger Saffold, Chris Long, James Lauranitis, Robert Quinn, Eugene Sims, Lance Kendricks, Micheal Hoo Hoo, James Hall, Jacob Bell, and probably a few others that I just can't think of. He didn't turn everyone over. It was smart to deal that #2 pick however, and get several additional picks. But there were also times when I did not care for Fisher's draft strategy... ie-drafting up to get Tavon.
 

RamBall

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If Fisher would have had the balls to hire a real OC, like maybe a younger McVay 2 or 3 yrs ago. He could take credit for the Rams success because it would have happened while he was here. But because he didnt hire a real OC, he is no longer coaching the Rams. So to try and take credit now is just a BS sales pitch. If he really wants to get a HC job he better find an OC to hook his wagon to.
 

OldSchool

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Apt picture IMO him holding Goff back.

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/12/...snt-due-and-still-making-excuses-for-failures

1212_spt_ldn-l-rams-per_-18__23041897.jpg


In the spirit of the holiday season, it’s probably best we simply let Jeff Fisher’s comments about the Rams remarkable turnaround season, and the over-inflated role he believes he played in it, slide.

On the night before Christmas, with Sean McVay and Jared Goff and Todd Gurley and Aaron Donald one win away from delivering to their fans and Los Angeles an NFC West division championship — and who could have imagined that big shiny gift sitting under their Christmas tree one year ago? — the noble thing would be to laugh off Fisher as a guy who had one too many egg noggs.

But then Fisher and Dave McGinnis, his right-hand man during an unremarkable five-year Rams coaching run, were so egregious in their attempt to prop themselves up as the architects of this emerging power steamrolling its way across the NFL, it simply can’t go discarded.



The Rams can secure their first NFC West title in 14 years Sunday with a win over the Tennessee Titans. If so, they’ll culminate one of the most stunning about faces in NFL history by roaring all the way back from a 4-12 record in 2016 and the 13 other non-winning seasons that preceded it.

The way Fisher and McGinnis would have us believe, they set the whole thing up for McVay to simply swoop on in, tinker with things a little bit and then enjoy the ride of his life thanks to the stacked team they graciously left behind.

In a pair of recent interviews that can only be described as widely myopic, Fisher and McGinnis took some incredible leeway in taking some massive bows for the work McVay, the nearly completely overhauled coaching staff he built, and general manager Les Snead have done to turn the Rams around.

“I’m a huge fan of the Ram players,” Fisher said on Nashville’s The Midday 180 on Friday. “They’re basically — I don’t want to say my players, but I had a lot to do with that roster. Left them in pretty good shape. And Sean, as he’s proven in this very short period of time, is an outstanding young coach. And he’s got the offense rolling, which they needed.”

Said McGinnis: “First of all, Jeff Fisher and I, we built this roster, you know what I’m saying? So I know these guys very, very well.”

You can read everything McGinnis said here. And you can read what Fisher said — including all the excuses he makes for his overall Rams failure here.

To which we say to all of it: Bah humbug!

Yes, Fisher deserves some credit for some of the defensive players he and Snead drafted during their five years together. Donald, Alec Ogletree, Michael Brockers, Trumaine Johnson and Lamarcus Joyner were all drafted under Fisher’s watch.

And absolutely Fisher was in charge when Gurley, Goff and starting linemen Rob Havenstein, Jamon Brown were drafted and special teams aces Pharoh Cooper, Johnny Hekker and Greg Zuerlein were acquired.

He also had help from Snead and the Rams scouting department, although you’d never know that listening to him and McGinnis rewrite history as the two men most responsible for the current Rams roster.

In the meantime, they completely glossed over the whole part about developing players and putting them in the best possible position to succeed and, ultimately, building a cohesive, competitive, functional team that can compete at the highest levels of the NFL.

For which Fisher was an abstract failure with the Rams. So for him to suggest he had everything set up for McVay is, frankly, laughable.

Fisher was in charge of the Rams for five seasons, including last year’s laughable first step back into Los Angeles in which 90,000+ crowds to begin the season dwindled to the mid 40,000’s after thousands upon thousands of fans decided they no longer wanted to waste their Sunday afternoon watching the kind of stomach-turning product Fisher and his staff were delivering.

The Rams weren’t just bad, they were epically boring and unimaginative.

The offensive philosophy was some dusted off relic straight out of the 1970’s, the foundation of which rested on a run game that would ultimately open things up through the air. The way Fisher saw it, you establish Gurley on the ground then create favorable situations for quarterbacks Case Keenum, and later Goff, with play action passes. Behind all that, you had a stellar defense and potent special teams to help keep games close.

What could go wrong, right? Everything, as it turns out.

All because Fisher was too hard-headed to make the necessary offensive adjustments to support the philosophy he preached.

After trading away six picks to surge to the top of the draft to select Goff, Fisher hung his young rookie out to dry by paying lip service to the necessary elements of quarterback and offensive development.

A defensive-minded head coach, Fisher inexplicably elevated veteran tight ends coach Rob Boras to offensive coordinator. Chris Weinke, who had absolutely zero track record in honing and nurturing rookie quarterbacks into eventual NFL standouts, was entrusted as Goff’s quarterback coach.

No upgrades were made along the offensive line, specifically left tackle, where Greg Robinson was grading out among the worst in the NFL.

And with an obvious need to improve a woeful wide receivers group, Fisher stubbornly kept the status quo intact. That meant Kenny Britt and Brian Quick and Tavon Austin were the three primary targets for Keenum and then Goff.

The lack of any real attention to the offense was an appalling oversight by Fisher. Gurley went from NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year to bust, as teams continually stacked the line of scrimmage and dared the Rams to beat them through the air.

A woeful offensive line could not counter by powering open holes. The pass protection was even worse. Britt, Quick and Austin were unreliable route runners and inconsistent pass catchers to whom defenses paid minimal respect.

By the end of the year, Gurley was calling the Rams offense “middle school” caliber. From overall talent to scheme to play calling, he was spot on.

When Goff finally got the starting role in the second half of the season, he was nothing more than a punching bag while getting ravaged by 26 sacks across seven games. Done in by a woeful supporting cast, unimaginative game plans and a complete and utter inability by coaches to make any adjustment.

In lieu of actual solutions to pressing issues, Fisher and his staff kept feeding us: “We’ll fix it.” “We just have to execute better.” For longtime Rams fans, it was the frustrating loop that played over and over and over during Fisher’s tenure.

When he was finally let go with three games left in the 2016 season, his final tally as the chief architect of the Rams was 31-45-1 and not a single playoff appearance. By the end of his run the Rams were getting worse, not better.

Fisher wasn’t solely responsible for the awful football teams he oversaw. But the bulk of the buck always has to stop somewhere, and with Fisher having the loudest say in coaching and personnel decisions and carte blanche to impose his will on the direction and vision of the on-field product, he was absolutely the most culpable.

It’s taken McVay mere months to do what Fisher never could: Build, develop and coach up a worthy NFL offense and construct an accountable, cohesive, complete team that’s s on the cusp of a division title.

Andrew Whitworth was brought in at left tackle, immediately turning a weakness into a strength. Veteran John Sullivan was brought in to solidify the center position. Rodger Saffold, Brown and Havenstein, now playing alongside better line-mates in a system more conducive to their talents, have emerged to lift the Rams line to among the best in the NFL.

That’s on McVay and Snead, not Fisher.

Robert Woods, Cooper Kupp and Sammy Watkins turned a mediocre wide receiver group into one of the most dangerous in the NFL. Fisher had nothing to do with any of them being acquired.

Goff, now surrounded by a much better supporting cast and playing in an imaginative, creative offensive system that always seems a step ahead of the defense, is a Pro Bowl alternate in his second year.

Gurley is flourishing in the run and pass game and is garnering recognition as the NFL MVP.

There are three groups that deserve to take bows right now: Mcvay and his staff. Snead and his staff. And the players.

Fisher deserves some credit. He was here when many of these players were drafted. But he also deserves a ton of blame for never taking them from Point A to Point B. Let alone Point Z.

Looks like he wants all of the former and plenty more that’s undeserved. But he completely glosses over the later.

To which we say: Bah Humbug.
 

Mackeyser

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Spagnuolo doesn't get the blame for the team sucking as far as talent, but he was a crap HC, a crap DC too.

Devaney was the worst GM in the NFL at the time and ownership was essentially JZ and JS. Which is crap in a bag.



When he posted the instagram vid of him banging his wife doggy style it was a microcosm of his maturity issues.

Who does that???



He could say whom he wanted, but Demoff does the contracts and makes those calls. He still does. He's the money guy and will be probably as long as SK owns the Rams.



He was coming off an excellent year and wanted to test the market. Who wouldn't..........I don't blame him.

Though it's funny he went to the Gnats and was singing their praises about how wonderful it was there and they turned into a dysfunctional steaming pile of crap and suck.

But he's still cashing the checks haha.

Well, in all fairness, Tom Coughlin was there at that time.

The Giants became a 747 without engines once Ben McAdoo became the HC.

Oh, and Coughlin still hasn't lost his touch. He returned to Jacksonville as the President of Football Ops, I believe and viola... That team has regained its toughness and physicality.

The Giants turned into a steaming pile of suck because of McAdoo and staff. I think the Giants job is gonna be the most coveted in quite some time and I suspect that D will return.
 

Mackeyser

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Jeff Fisher stockpiled some talent, but when you're constantly drafting high, that's to be expected.

The reality is that he completely misused talent, which makes me think that he gets lucky more than he's really smart.

I mean this entire board was saying we should move Joyner to safety, and Fisher, the defensive guru supposedly, couldn't see this? It took Wade all of about 30 seconds.

I don't discredit what Fisher did, I long said he was laying the foundation and a younger coach would take us into the playoffs and beyond, but I wouldn't give him as much credit as he's suggesting he should get. We had to move players to better positions because he couldn't see it. I also think that we'll be shedding a few more Fisher contracts.

http://ramsondemand.com/threads/jeff-fisher-is-our-mike-singletary.34079/#post-483571

Yep. I was talking about this in Dec 2014.

@-X- didn't buy into it then, but I think he sees it now (I only bring it up because he was the first to respond)

And...sure enough. Much like Harbaugh, McVay came in and while making some changes and having a solid draft turned the team from a perennial under-achiever to a strong post-season contender the next season.

And much like Singletary, Fisher built a stout defense while having an offense that was pathetically bad.

The parallels are striking.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Considering what the McVay/Snead draft is looking like without a first round pick, I think it is fair to assume that the Rams would have just as good of a roster, if those two had been working with all of those high draft choices for Five consecutive years.

Fisher is bragging about having a great roster, but he was able to build it, in large part, due to sucking as a head coach, which gave him high draft choices. And still he only has 12 starters out of 22 on the roster.

Then you also have to wonder how much of the picks were Fisher’s doing. If it was all him picking Hoff and Gurley then we can assume the same thing for GRob, Tavon, and the rest of the failed picks.

Macginnis not mentioning Snead is just sour grapes on his part becauseSnead was retained
 

Mackeyser

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That's Fisher and McGinnis by extension being the political animals they are.

To give Snead ANY credit would be to diminish his own claim.

And I'd wager the ONLY reason he isn't dismissing McVay is because it's super bad form to slam another HC. Moreover, it'd backfire on him bigtime when McVay is constantly taking the high road AND McVay is succeeding in his first year where Fisher failed in 5.
 

LesBaker

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I would like a link.

Demoff puts the contract terms and money together. He doesn't say who gets the contract. Let's say McVay wants to resign Watkins. It's Demoff's job to make it happen. Demoff doesn't tell McVay he wants Watkins and signs him.

Put the bong down. :)
 

LesBaker

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As I thought no link.;)

They work together, but only Demoff does contracts, he's the money guy. They can want a player badly, but if Demoff feels the money is too much then no deal gets done.

It's been that way even when Fisher had full personnel control. Demoff does the contracts.
 

UKram

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4 years picking in the top ten and luckily RG3 hype allowing extra first rounders you better nail some talented players

I think it’s disgusting he is trying to take credit for the rams this year ... same players ... different defense .. different offense ... stick to fishing Fisher
 

Ram65

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They work together, but only Demoff does contracts, he's the money guy. They can want a player badly, but if Demoff feels the money is too much then no deal gets done.

It's been that way even when Fisher had full personnel control. Demoff does the contracts.

Let's agree to disagree.

Demoff negotiates contracts but does not determine who the Rams sign. His job is to determine players values in the open market so the Rams can resign players that are about to be free agents. He also does the same for potential free agent signings. In this case the Rams had the money to resign Jenkins and TruJo. Turns out the Giants got a bargain for JJ at 12 Million a year. He is not a talent evaluator.
 

LesBaker

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Demoff negotiates contracts but does not determine who the Rams sign. His job is to determine players values in the open market so the Rams can resign players that are about to be free agents. He also does the same for potential free agent signings. In this case the Rams had the money to resign Jenkins and TruJo. Turns out the Giants got a bargain for JJ at 12 Million a year. He is not a talent evaluator.

This is what I have been saying. I don't know how we don't agree, you aren't saying something much differently than I am.

I responded to the comment that losing Jenkins was on Snead. In fact it isn't because Snead doesn't make offers to players and doesn't do the contracts. Demoff does those things.

I'm sure they talk about the $$$ players agents ask for, but Snead doesn't talk dollars only Demoff does that. It's been that way since SK hired him, it's his job soley.
 

Ram65

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This is what I have been saying. I don't know how we don't agree, you aren't saying something much differently than I am.

I responded to the comment that losing Jenkins was on Snead. In fact it isn't because Snead doesn't make offers to players and doesn't do the contracts. Demoff does those things.

I'm sure they talk about the $$$ players agents ask for, but Snead doesn't talk dollars only Demoff does that. It's been that way since SK hired him, it's his job soley.

No of course Snead is awhere of the numbers. He is the GM and not living in a vacuum.

I'm saying if Fisher really wanted to keep JJ Demoff could have made it happen.
 

EastRam

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As for Fisher or Snead getting credit for the current Rams Roster.

I give Snead 90% of the credit based on this quote from former Titian GM Reese

Well, I don't think he was ever really...into talent. I mean, he wanted to have a say and he wanted to have an idea of the people we were going to draft, but as far as, you know, going to the combine, as far as going to pro days, as far doing all that kind of stuff...he really wasn't into all that much.

- Floyd Reese