What’s right with Jared Goff?

[jap]

I hate! Thursday night games. Too short of a turnaround time for such a brutal sport. The only saving grace is that the Pats are suffering through the same short week. We have the divisional tie-breaker edge over the 'Hawks. However, we are the NFC #3 seed at best right now behind da 'Aints and The Pack. We need to keep winning out to obtain at least one bye week before our playoff ruin begins.

Let's see if Sean's QB calling out stratagem continues to have the positive effect I think it will.

 

[Ramlock]

:18 in

look who appreciates the defense and celebrates in the end zone

good teammate

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

When Mcvay allows Goff to roll out he's near unstoppable. I am not sure why this wasn't in the plans vs SF and Miami.

Goff is projected to finish #3 passer in the NFL, when measuring by passing yards. His production is undeniable.

If he can continue with the ball security and Mcvay can continue to utilize Jared-on-the-move then we are going to be a hard team to beat.

The pass protection is starting to get concerning. It's getting a little leaky. But the rollouts are a great counter.

Also, I truly believe our pass sets up the run. It's sort of backwards but it was pretty obvious that once the Cards had to sell out to stop the pass, the big runs kicked in. I think that is our identity. Before that we were getting stuffed over and over.

You are spot on in my opinion. You basically wrote my entire post.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

None of us are in the huddle, but it appears to me that he has. Goff is getting multiple plays and has the power to change the play at the LOS. A lot of times, we're breaking the huddle right as the mic cuts out. That means Goff is the one changing protections and the play. Even when we get to the LOS fast, Goff is often making adjustments after the mic turns off. I think he has that ownership now.

I think an indication of this is how many times Goff nearly causes a delay of game. I think he's still learning and its not automatic for him to diagnose things.

 

[Oregonram]

An emerging Akers will help Jared tremendously. We need to get defenses to respect that PA again. Bellycheek will do everything he can to make us one dimensional, let’s roll in some 12 personnel and ram it down their collective throats.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

McVay must read the forum. Goff had many more bootlegs. Get him on rhythm by doing what he does best. I wish he had done it last week. Maybe he worried SF was too fast of a Defense and didn't want to risk injury.

Goff did great protecting the ball and made some tight window throws. No mistakes to get into his head. He still missed throwing to a wide open Kupp on a gimme TD. But nobody is perfect. 78% passing is pretty good.

I was thinking the same at @TexasRam while watching the game. Passing opens up the run. Teams seem to try to shorten up the field against the Rams in the early going. I wonder if they see a tendency of McVay starting Goff out with shorter passes. Or maybe they don't fear the Rams speed. I'd love to see them hit something deep to start the game.

 

[Ramlock]

An emerging Akers will help Jared tremendously. We need to get defenses to respect that PA again. Bellycheek will do everything he can to make us one dimensional, let’s roll in some 12 personnel and ram it down their collective throats.

would love that, but if I was BB, I’d take away PA...heavy box...A gap pressure on 16

16 can handle that and deal

 

[TexasRam]

None of us are in the huddle, but it appears to me that he has. Goff is getting multiple plays and has the power to change the play at the LOS. A lot of times, we're breaking the huddle right as the mic cuts out. That means Goff is the one changing protections and the play. Even when we get to the LOS fast, Goff is often making adjustments after the mic turns off. I think he has that ownership now.

I am Not claiming to know what is going on every play but Goff mentioned in an interview a few weeks ago (Rich Eisen?) that he gets two playcalls for every play. Based on what I am seeing I believe Goff (if he has time) always has an option to either audible to a mcvay run/pass for each play. He might also have some liberty on the quick plays when we run hurry up. He definitely has the control to call protections, we have seen that multiple times. For example, Brown getting realigned behind Blythe.

The limitations I see are as follows:
1. Goff only has one option on most plays to the alternate play Mcvay called. So Goff can audible to run from pass or vice versa.
2. Goff has limited time on most plays to audible out to the run/pass due to the fact that he is down to under 10 seconds by the time everyone is lined up.

I may be wrong.

I don't mind it too much since Mcvay is a pretty good playcaller. But when Mcvay goes to those predictable plays it sure is annoying. For example, the quick WR outs on 3rd and short that get stuffed.

 

[MachS]

When Mcvay allows Goff to roll out he's near unstoppable. I am not sure why this wasn't in the plans vs SF and Miami.

Its not that simple, and McVay doesn't just "choose" to go away from it for no reason. Some defenses do a great job of taking the boot away. Thats something specifically Miami and SF did very well. Some teams have their OLB/DE stay home and not crash in so they can anticipate the boot. This will leave them more exposed to the cutback lane in the running game but some teams are willing to risk that to shut down our boot game. When Goff turns around and has a rusher right in his face, that play is dead. He's not going to outrun the free rusher, and he most likely wont complete a pass.

We almost always only boot PA on 1st and 2nd down, so if a team is shutting it down it makes sense why McVay goes away from it. Because it will likely be 2nd &10 or 3rd and whatever after a negative play if they're "sitting" on our boot PA game.

The offense obviously runs BEST when Goff can boot and roll out. But McVay gets predictable sometimes and it puts us in bad spots. We cant be one dimensional with our pass game and we need to find other ways to help Goff be successful outside of the boot PA game. Because great defensive coaches will take it away, and I guarantee you we'll run a lot less Thurs night because Belichick will take that away. Our drop back shotgun passing game needs to improve, and most importantly our deep passing game needs to get a lot better because its non existent right now. All our explosive pass plays come off of YAC and we need to push the ball down the field more to be a contender in the playoffs IMO.

 

[Ramlock]

When Mcvay allows Goff to roll out he's near unstoppable. I am not sure why this wasn't in the plans vs SF and Miami.y
.

If he can continue with the ball security and Mcvay can continue to utilize Jared-on-the-move then we are going to be a hard team to beat.

The pass protection is starting to get concerning. It's getting a little leaky. But the rollouts are a great counter.

They have to remain committed to the boot game, even when the edge stays home...Goff gets the ball out against the free rusher every time, leaving the flat and the middle of the field TE as open receivers...it’s an innovation of the screen pass.

we’ve almost never seen the throw back across the body to a TE in the middle until Goff and McVay did it.

 

[TexasRam]

You are spot on in my opinion. You basically wrote my entire post.

Well I am glad someone sees it my way. Now if I can only get the wife to agree with me

We used the rollouts to put 30 on the Niners last year, so not sure why Mcvay gets away from it.

It's possible a team stops it eventually but I would default to it most games and have an alternate only if the defense sold out to it continually. It allows for throw aways and Goff isn't a sitting duck for a sack or fumble. Goff's interceptions are less than 1 per game. Its really the sacks and fumbles that screw us. And as stated, the spread offense (spreading horizontally) really forces the linebackers ends and DB's to cover the edges opening the run game. The WR end arounds also do this. Mcvay has got away from those as well. Mainly because Higbee, Everett and the WR's have sucked at blocking them up as of late in my opinion.

The normal dropback passing sucks for a few reasons in my opinion. First, our Oline Havenstein, Noteboom and Blythe are suspect on long developing plays. Second, we don't have deep threats. Third, Goff is struggling throwing vertical routes. Fourth, our RB's struggle in pass pro.

It just makes sense to use Goff on the rollouts, he is great at it and our team is built for it. Plus it opens the run game.

 

[jrry32]

Well I am glad someone sees it my way. Now if I can only get the wife to agree with me

We used the rollouts to put 30 on the Niners last year, so not sure why Mcvay gets away from it.

It's possible a team stops it eventually but I would default to it most games and have an alternate only if the defense sold out to it continually. It allows for throw aways and Goff isn't a sitting duck for a sack or fumble. Goff's interceptions are less than 1 per game. Its really the sacks and fumbles that screw us. And as stated, the spread offense (spreading horizontally) really forces the linebackers ends and DB's to cover the edges opening the run game. The WR end arounds also do this. Mcvay has got away from those as well. Mainly because Higbee, Everett and the WR's have sucked at blocking them up as of late in my opinion.

The normal dropback passing sucks for a few reasons in my opinion. First, our Oline Havenstein, Noteboom and Blythe are suspect on long developing plays. Second, we don't have deep threats. Third, Goff is struggling throwing vertical routes. Fourth, our RB's struggle in pass pro.

It just makes sense to use Goff on the rollouts, he is great at it and our team is built for it. Plus it opens the run game.

Yeah, I don't know why he doesn't use it in certain games. Maybe he thinks their defensive design will stop it. But the boots benefit us in the passing and running games. In order to stop the passing success off of it, they have to have their defender play disciplined, which keeps him from crashing on runs and opens up backside cutback lanes.

 

[Rams77]

How New England Shut Down Our Offense
Great Video illustrating how Belichek completely stifled our offense in the Super Bowl last year. Have McVay and Goff learned their lesson? We’ll see

 

[TexasRam]

Its not that simple, and McVay doesn't just "choose" to go away from it for no reason. Some defenses do a great job of taking the boot away. Thats something specifically Miami and SF did very well. Some teams have their OLB/DE stay home and not crash in so they can anticipate the boot. This will leave them more exposed to the cutback lane in the running game but some teams are willing to risk that to shut down our boot game. When Goff turns around and has a rusher right in his face, that play is dead. He's not going to outrun the free rusher, and he most likely wont complete a pass.

We almost always only boot PA on 1st and 2nd down, so if a team is shutting it down it makes sense why McVay goes away from it. Because it will likely be 2nd &10 or 3rd and whatever after a negative play if they're "sitting" on our boot PA game.

The offense obviously runs BEST when Goff can boot and roll out. But McVay gets predictable sometimes and it puts us in bad spots. We cant be one dimensional with our pass game and we need to find other ways to help Goff be successful outside of the boot PA game. Because great defensive coaches will take it away, and I guarantee you we'll run a lot less Thurs night because Belichick will take that away. Our drop back shotgun passing game needs to improve, and most importantly our deep passing game needs to get a lot better because its non existent right now. All our explosive pass plays come off of YAC and we need to push the ball down the field more to be a contender in the playoffs IMO.

I have seen some teams sit on the boot. You make a valid point, not sure how much in the Miami and SF games. But there are also other ways to counter them sitting on it. I agree, Mcvay has gotten away from it as he's seen this but I would argue there are other ways to beat it when they sit on it and other ways to modify it. I've seen Mcvay bring out motion guys and TE's to block the edge rushers. There is also different alignments Mcvay could try to keep them from reading boot.

I'm not sure throwing from the pocket is essential. Just my opinion. Alot of other teams run formations and plays that are very non conventional and have multiple options to them that work just fine.

Also, consider some of the PA that also has Jared quickly turning around and posting up deep but in the middle of the pocket. It basically forces the defense to defend run and forces the edge guys to the edge and gives him a clean pocket. This is one way to counter the defense of the boots.

It all comes down to execution and scheme in my book. You can beat any play if you scheme it right and your players execute it right. So putting them where into plays they excel at is paramount.

 

[MrRiceGuyRJ]

Goff did a good job managing the game today. I'm stoked any week he doesn't turn the ball over like crazy and be the reason we lose games. Sure it'd be nice if he can take care of the ball like Patty Mahomes (or even Ryan Tannehill), but if he protects the ball and keeps converting first downs, with this defense playing like a championship defense, we can make a serious run

 

[TexasRam]

How New England Shut Down Our Offense
Great Video illustrating how Belichek completely stifled our offense in the Super Bowl last year. Have McVay and Goff learned their lesson? We’ll see

I'm not convinced they stifled us. We had two dropped TD passes and a BS TD run called back. They did slow us, but this is Bill BillaCheat. A certified cheater. Exposed by former coaches,videoographers and caught with a wherehouse of videos of other teams play calls. It's sort of hard to beat a team that knows your play before you run it.

 

[Merlin]

He's definitely got ownership. Probably part of his struggles in some of the games like Miami too, they made it really hard on him with the blitz reads. He has full ownership of protections as well as at a minimum one run and pass play to check into given his pre-snap reads, according to multiple reports from those who have spoken to McVay about it (announcers and whatnot).

This is why McVay went on about how hard the QB position is at this level. He knows what Goff has on him and that he's taken a big step this year, so of course there will be some growing pains.

 

[Merlin]

Its not that simple, and McVay doesn't just "choose" to go away from it for no reason. Some defenses do a great job of taking the boot away. Thats something specifically Miami and SF did very well.

Yes. Bootlegs are a surprise type play. If overused you get diminishing returns and actually can introduce more risk of turnovers due to sacks and strips, not to mention tipped balls. McVay uses them extremely well, he probably has the best feel in the league for using them, often catching teams crashing in their ends or coming on the blitz and Goff's fake motion is among the best in the league.

Goff doesn't get cred for his fake quality. The guy looks identical from the shoulders up whether he hands it off or not. He's a magician with that shit and makes it look easy.

 

[TexasRam]

Yes. Bootlegs are a surprise type play. If overused you get diminishing returns and actually can introduce more risk of turnovers due to sacks and strips, not to mention tipped balls. McVay uses them extremely well, he probably has the best feel in the league for using them, often catching teams crashing in their ends or coming on the blitz and Goff's fake motion is among the best in the league.

Goff doesn't get cred for his fake quality. The guy looks identical from the shoulders up whether he hands it off or not. He's a magician with that shit and makes it look easy.

One could argue that sacks, strips and tipped balls are more conducive to pocket passing, especially if you have a suboptimal O-line and or are facing a heavy blitz team. This certainly is the case with the Rams. The turnovers are largely due to pocket snaps. In fact, Goff's efficiency is dramatically better outside the pocket. I get the point about overusing them. No argument there. But if you run them 4 times an entire game when your QB is top in the league at it, then you are probably over thinking things. Same arguement with a baseball pitcher. If the data shows they can't hit a certain pitch, it should be a primay pitch. But if you throw it every pitch then they can sit on it and your efficiency goes down. It really comes down to knowing what your best pitches are due to the data, then not becoming too predictable. Or, slighlty modifying your best pitch. See what I did there?

 

[Merlin]

One could argue that sacks, strips and tipped balls are more conducive to pocket passing, especially if you have a suboptimal O-line and or are facing a heavy blitz team. This certainly is the case with the Rams. The turnovers are largely due to pocket snaps. In fact, Goff's efficiency is dramatically better outside the pocket. I get the point about overusing them. No argument there. But if you run them 4 times an entire game when your QB is top in the league at it, then you are probably over thinking things. Same arguement with a baseball pitcher. If the data shows they can't hit a certain pitch, it should be a primay pitch. But if you throw it every pitch then they can sit on it and your efficiency goes down. It really comes down to knowing what your best pitches are due to the data, then not becoming too predictable. Or, slighlty modifying your best pitch. See what I did there?

It's an impossible argument to say how many times McVay should call a boot. All I can say is he tends to tail them back after a bit of usage in most games and then goes back to them with pretty good feel in key situations since they usually work. One exception of what I would term overuse would be the second 9er game of 2019 where we ran almost all boots and the 9ers still struggled with it in fact they said they specifically schemed thereafter to stop the Rams' boot game. And most of that was Bosa being a meathead and crashing in after losing contain over and over.

So when the OL was beyond terrible in 2019 yes he did what he had to do and we almost won that game vs a better team. Should have won that game if not for our defense in fact.

But regardless I think it's important to remember what it's for. That's all. Its value is in the surprise.

And lastly it's going to be important for this offense to beat teams downfield with the QB in the pocket. Goff's not the only guy who needs to practice that (in his case he can make the throws so it's the mental side of anticipation/protections), the OL also needs to get their shit together vs the better fronts so hammering all that out is what we're seeing now in real time and if the Rams don't improve enough there it will probably eliminate us in the playoffs.

But I think we're in a good spot. The offense just needs to continue that rebuild from the loss of Gurley and Cooks and get guys going in those roles. We won't ever replace them, at least not with these guys, but we can get good enough production for this offense to find its efficiency again.