What’s right with Jared Goff?

[jrry32]

Look at how Cam Newton played in comparison. While our D is definitely an elite unit, it's not like they do much schematically that Cam hasn't seen done before.

Our defense is actually one of the toughest in the NFL to read. Staley marries his pressure to his back-end coverage and disguises both very well. That's why we've given guys like Brady, Wilson, and Murray so much trouble. Here's a description from The Athletic:

Four ways the Rams’ new coaches will make an immediate impact

New coordinators Brandon Staley, Kevin O'Connell and John Bonamego and running backs coach Thomas Brown will give the Rams a fresh look.

theathletic.com

McVay is known for his deception. Defensive coaches who face a McVay offense are impressed with his ability to disguise his intentions before the snap and, to put it in the most casual of terms, “make everything look the same.” Staley shares that philosophy on defense. He wants quarterbacks to come to the line of scrimmage viewing one thing, only to be surprised by what the defense does after the snap.

That doesn’t mean the Rams will have to learn five or 10 different defenses. It means Staley will focus on a set of tenets.

“I think multiple doesn’t mean complex,” Staley said. “Probably a better word now is agile, so that you can have a little more variety in your personnel groupings and your coverage schemes and your pressure schemes, but it’s very conceptual for the players. That’s the key to being multiple. You can’t have a million different things going on for these players, or they’re not going to be able to play.

“So being able to have a conceptual framework, where you’re always building off something, I think that’s probably where we’re very similar. If you take a look at the way Sean plays on offense, there’s a lot of things that look extremely complex, but it’s just a lot of different players performing the same things. That’s probably what drew us together. It’s the illusion of complexity.”
-----------------------------------
Like the McVay offense, our defense doesn't seem complex because it's not, but it's very hard to read pre-snap.

 

[TexasRam]

You actually helped me make a point I forgot to include in my post: I mentioned in the GameDay thread that Goff seemed un characteristically inaccurate. I meant to lead with that lol

Anyways. A lot of his throws—even completions—are off target i.e. receiver has to really adjust instead of being hit in stride (a lot of the flat routes to the rbs) or just look like lame duck throws. Recall 2017 or 2018 Goff. Even his inaccurate throws were thrown with command lol.

This brings to mind a question about mechanics, especially once one additionally considers Goffs recent struggles with connecting on the deep ball—something he has been awesome at in the past.

I dont think it is purely a mechanical function, I think it is a result of Goffs mind playing faster than he is physically able to. This leads to him mentally trying to get the throw out faster and that causes the mechanics to get jammed up in between.

He just needs to settle in, and connect on a long ball or two to get that confidence back.

I appreciate your take on trust in his blocking. You are absolutely correct..

I mean, look at how he played against a pats d that is always a schematically challenging proposition. In addition to how good the Pat's secondary is. That right there shows us how far Goffs mental game has come along.

Look at how Cam Newton played in comparison. While our D is definitely an elite unit, it's not like they do much schematically that Cam hasn't seen done before.

By the way, about Cam Newton, I know he plays for the Pats....I know...but I couldn't help but feel a hint of empathy for the guy. Am I the only one that noticed the look on his face? Its the look of a man that realizes that his days as a legit starter in the league are probably very close to over. A man that sees his dream evaporating before him. Idc who you are, that is a bit sad.

I wouldnt say a lot of Goffs throws look off. There are some. Probably way less then most QB's I watch. I mean look at Goff's throw to Higbee to start the game. Or the long deep in on third down to Woods on the second possesion. Or the Deep in to Reynolds. Or the slant to Everett earky in the game. Or the throw when we were pinned back by our end zone. Or the throw to Higbee at the start of the third. These are all absolute dimes. Or the Kupp TD or Kupp 3rd down throw where Kupp ran backwards. Or the throw to Akers on third and long where Akers failed to get the first down because he took a bad angle.

But when Goff is under pressure he will at times have an off throw, that is normal.

 

[NJRamsFan]

In the post that you quoted, I felt that the supporting cast was thrown under the bus when they played well.

I would ask what the motivation was for that poster to comment that the supporting cast let Goff down.

And, I mean this as a legitimate question, not trying to be snarky or anything - but why just ask me that? I didn't even really criticize a Rams player, while the poster I responded to criticized the entire supporting cast on offense. If I was merely correcting, seems a lot worse for someone to be criticizing the WRs, TEs and RBs when they mostly played a good game.

I don't have any special like or dislike for a player because of their position or status, or at least I try not to. If I think the defense sucks in a game, I'll say that. If Kupp sucks, I'll say that too. And the same for Goff.

I agree with what you said 100% about Goff vs the Patriots.

Overall I don't like how often the coach and/or OL and WRs get blamed for things that I consider to be Goff's issue - such as the INT last night - I've seen a few posters say that wasn't a bad play by Goff and that just blows my mind. Now, every player, including Mahomes, makes bad plays. The only issue I had with last night's game was McVay getting so conservative in the fourth quarter for a few drives. So while I wasn't bothered by Goff throwing the INT, I am bothered by someone saying it was Woods' fault.

So to formally and succinctly answer your question, even though I felt it wasn't Goff's best, if a poster just said "Goff was awesome!", I can totally see your asking me this. Would seem like I was just raining on a parade for no reason. The only reason I did was the critique of the supporting cast which I felt was unjustified.

Fair enough and definitely understand you defending the supporting cast.

To answer your question it was directed at you because as I read through the thread I saw you initially hassle the guy who bumped the thread and than a few others so just wanted to understand the intentions.

overall I don’t think Goff is deserving of the over the top defense he gets from some posters nor is he deserving of the overly critical reviews he gets from others. I’ve probably been lumped into a category of a Goff homer at this point because a lot of my posts lately have been arguing against people bringing him down. But to clarify I have no problem with genuine criticism as it’s pretty obvious he deserves it after games where he looks lost such as SF or Miami. What I usually dislike is people doing nothing but saying how much he sucks or that we can’t win with him as our qb or that literally any other qb would be better. The posters who disappear when he makes a gorgeous throw for a TD but resurface when he throws a pick as that just doesn’t seem like fandom to me. Like I get it...I don’t think anyone on here is happy when Goff throws a pick 6 but to use it as an I told ya so moment but say nothing when he succeeds is certainly not fandom to me it’s a personal vendetta and a need to be right.

I think Jared put it best when he said “my job is to win games” and he’s done that. Now to explain away those victories and credit everyone else winning in spite of Goff while simultaneously crediting him for the losses is just off base and self serving IMO and that’s why I speak up. A lot of qbs have had strong defenses and running games and not won games at the same rate so he has to be doing something right. Not to mention he has made 2 pro bowls and a Super Bowl in his young career so that counts for something as well. That is not to by any means say he’s beyond being criticized when he deserves it. I think a fair assessment is Goff is sometimes a top tier qb and sometimes a bottom tier qb (aka inconsistent) but he does have a knack to win games so I’ll take it especially after the decade plus stretch of football we’ve just witnessed as rams fans. He’s clearly not in the same echelon of Wilson/Mahomes/Rodgers and those guys but I do think he has the ability to elevate his NFL stature higher than it is currently if he gets more consistent.

FYI I wasn’t labeling you as the fan I have described in my post just explaining my position on the Goff debate as you thoughtfully did as well. In fact I think I mis labeled you as one of those guys and now I’m seeing that I was wrong.

 

[RentonRamsFan]

I'm pretty new to this board, and I'm sensing that Goff is a pretty polarizing topic here, and pretty much everywhere. Here's my 2 cents - Goff is a good QB on an upward trajectory - this doesn't mean it's purely upward - there are some downs, but I think he's trending upward. I also think he's probably overpaid, which is why he's so polarizing - you expect more from him based on his current salary. Assuming he can maintain his trajectory, and win a SB, he still can possibly justify the return on that salary. I think what people need to see is for him to win a game on his own, in an extremely important game. I think he's showed some flashes in the past, namely the 2018 playoffs, but he failed in the biggest game unfortunately, though I wouldn't put it entirely on his shoulders. So I can see the potential, and there's still more to Goff's story to be written.

I think another thing is that he plays in the same division as Russel Wilson, who most would say is a better QB. However, since this thread is supposed to be about what's right with Goff, I'll finish my post with this- even Russ has had some problems this year:


View: https://youtu.be/Cnarei9FgGo

 

[NJRamsFan]

I'm pretty new to this board, and I'm sensing that Goff is a pretty polarizing topic here, and pretty much everywhere. Here's my 2 cents - Goff is a good QB on an upward trajectory - this doesn't mean it's purely upward - there are some downs, but I think he's trending upward. I also think he's probably overpaid, which is why he's so polarizing - you expect more from him based on his current salary. Assuming he can maintain his trajectory, and win a SB, he still can possibly justify the return on that salary. I think what people need to see is for him to win a game on his own, in an extremely important game. I think he's showed some flashes in the past, namely the 2018 playoffs, but he failed in the biggest game unfortunately, though I wouldn't put it entirely on his shoulders. So I can see the potential, and there's still more to Goff's story to be written.

I think another thing is that he plays in the same division as Russel Wilson, who most would say is a better QB. However, since this thread is supposed to be about what's right with Goff, I'll finish my post with this- even Russ has had some problems this year:


View: https://youtu.be/Cnarei9FgGo

Pretty spot on IMO. Glad to have ya here man...welcome

 

[FrantikRam]

Fair enough and definitely understand you defending the supporting cast.

To answer your question it was directed at you because as I read through the thread I saw you initially hassle the guy who bumped the thread and than a few others so just wanted to understand the intentions.

overall I don’t think Goff is deserving of the over the top defense he gets from some posters nor is he deserving of the overly critical reviews he gets from others. I’ve probably been lumped into a category of a Goff homer at this point because a lot of my posts lately have been arguing against people bringing him down. But to clarify I have no problem with genuine criticism as it’s pretty obvious he deserves it after games where he looks lost such as SF or Miami. What I usually dislike is people doing nothing but saying how much he sucks or that we can’t win with him as our qb or that literally any other qb would be better. The posters who disappear when he makes a gorgeous throw for a TD but resurface when he throws a pick as that just doesn’t seem like fandom to me. Like I get it...I don’t think anyone on here is happy when Goff throws a pick 6 but to use it as an I told ya so moment but say nothing when he succeeds is certainly not fandom to me it’s a personal vendetta and a need to be right.

I think Jared put it best when he said “my job is to win games” and he’s done that. Now to explain away those victories and credit everyone else winning in spite of Goff while simultaneously crediting him for the losses is just off base and self serving IMO and that’s why I speak up. A lot of qbs have had strong defenses and running games and not won games at the same rate so he has to be doing something right. Not to mention he has made 2 pro bowls and a Super Bowl in his young career so that counts for something as well. That is not to by any means say he’s beyond being criticized when he deserves it. I think a fair assessment is Goff is sometimes a top tier qb and sometimes a bottom tier qb (aka inconsistent) but he does have a knack to win games so I’ll take it especially after the decade plus stretch of football we’ve just witnessed as rams fans. He’s clearly not in the same echelon of Wilson/Mahomes/Rodgers and those guys but I do think he has the ability to elevate his NFL stature higher than it is currently if he gets more consistent.

FYI I wasn’t labeling you as the fan I have described in my post just explaining my position on the Goff debate as you thoughtfully did as well. In fact I think I mis labeled you as one of those guys and now I’m seeing that I was wrong.

Sounds like you and I are on the same page for the most part. I probably shouldn't have hassled for bumping, I just would prefer if both sides of the extreme would calm down. I would have said the same thing if someone bumped the negative Goff thread after Thursday night.

 

[XXXIVwin]

A lot of really interesting and even-handed posts in this thread (especially from NJ, Frantik, and Ramit, among others). Goff has a ton of good/great traits, and also some really bad ones. Plenty of fair-minded fans here that recognize both sides.

Only thing I can add is that when the Rams QB feels “unfairly attacked”, my instinct is to stick up for him. (I’m only referring to those few caustic fans who have that “Get rid of the bum!” vibe, which is pretty rare).

 

[Merlin]

I'm pretty new to this board, and I'm sensing that Goff is a pretty polarizing topic here, and pretty much everywhere. Here's my 2 cents - Goff is a good QB on an upward trajectory - this doesn't mean it's purely upward - there are some downs, but I think he's trending upward. I also think he's probably overpaid, which is why he's so polarizing - you expect more from him based on his current salary. Assuming he can maintain his trajectory, and win a SB, he still can possibly justify the return on that salary. I think what people need to see is for him to win a game on his own, in an extremely important game. I think he's showed some flashes in the past, namely the 2018 playoffs, but he failed in the biggest game unfortunately, though I wouldn't put it entirely on his shoulders. So I can see the potential, and there's still more to Goff's story to be written.

I think another thing is that he plays in the same division as Russel Wilson, who most would say is a better QB. However, since this thread is supposed to be about what's right with Goff, I'll finish my post with this- even Russ has had some problems this year:


View: https://youtu.be/Cnarei9FgGo

Fair take. He's young. So we'll see where he goes and for now we sure win a lot with him. So he's doing the job for the most part just has to quit dispensing the football and keep building on his mastery level QB skills like anticipating the rush, internal clock/feeling the rush, using fakes and eyes to control the safeties and DBs, etc.

Pretty happy with him tbh. Let's keep that run game going and ride that shit and our defense to a championship.

 

[Tano]

Okay so New England should be no problem then.

Yep New England was no problem

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm not sure how Goff "lost the 49ers game" when the Rams had a 3 point lead, late in the 4th Q, the 49ers were playing their 3rd string QB and yet they were able to drive the length of the field twice for the tying and winning FG.

Did you notice that the Niners used a similar offense to the one McVay used to defeat the Patriots? Two tight end sets and receivers blocking to the same side. No Staley and McVay need to learn how to defend it better.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Like every QB, Goff can carve teams up when given enough time. But he won’t always have it. He needs to get better at decisions and throws under pressure. That is the next step. Great QBs make those throws, or know when not to try them.

We know what Goff is at this moment. The question is can he improve on his weaknesses going forward. Imagine what he’d look like facing Aaron Donald in a game. He has made much better decisions these last two games but did have some bad throws against the Patriots. I think as long as we keep seeing progress and not a huge regression in certain situations the criticism will die down considerably.

 

[iamme33]

Only thing I can add is that when the Rams QB feels “unfairly attacked”, my instinct is to stick up for him. (I’m only referring to those few caustic fans who have that “Get rid of the bum!” vibe, which is pretty rare).

yeah i was pretty down on mr goff after the whinner game and i wanted him to set on the bench for a couple series the next bad game he had. my thought was that it might motivate him plus we need to know what we have as a backup for the next draft. now after just a great game i still think we should set him at the end of a blowout game. my reasoning for that is we still have no idea what we have for a backup plus we don't want an injury to him at the end of a blow out. wow its pretty easy for me to do 180s cause i'm so easy ok girls don't get any ideas.

 

[badnews]

Whenever people act like Goff isn't mentally tough enough to win big games, I always wonder if they remember anything about the NFC championship game other than the Robey-Coleman controversy.
Was Goff good enough in the SB? No, but he wasn't the reason our offense didn't work that day.
The previous game in New Orleans, playing with the pressure to get to the Superbowl was one of the gutsiest, toughest and all around best performances in our young QBs career.
If crazy stats and fantasy dominance is how you define a good game for a QB, you might have missed just how well Jared played.
Sure, without that bad no-call, the Rams lose that game. But in very many real ways, it was Jared Goffs ballsy play in the NFCC game that got us to the Superbowl.

Jared Goff's clutch NFC championship performance overshadowed by controversy

Jared Goff was clutch in the Rams’ win, but no one’s talking about his outstanding play.

theramswire.usatoday.com

 

[den-the-coach]

Yep New England was no problem

Got to give you that sir!

View: https://media.giphy.com/media/ZgQcZwqpyDW4GxGwVQ/giphy.gif