What will it take to make the Stafford trade worth it in your opinion?

[Faceplant]

Hey, I hope he wins MVP.

Ya don't. Ya know ya don't. You have written 10,000 words on this forum to the contrary. Just stop.

 

[FrantikRam]

It's a big risk. The Rams took it because they're all in on winning a championship while Aaron Donald is still playing at an all-universe level. That's the window. And, yes, there's a new stadium to fill.

I support the win now strategy. You can't accomplish something great without going all in. And, given McVay's success so far, the Rams and Kroenke are willing to roll with McVay's best judgment about what he needs to win it all. (Never mind that McVay's best judgment has repeatedly and suddenly changed from being all in to all out on a series of key players.) As I said in another thread, compare the Rams' strategy to win now with Green Bay complacently drafting for a likely mediocre future.

But the risks are real.

Stafford has clear talent but a frankly mediocre career record. He's 33 and has had multiple injuries. He's on a two year contract. It remains to be seen whether he and McVay will truly land on the same page on how the offense best works. Also whether the offense, now without Cam Akers, has the talent to recreate the magic of 2017 and 2018. Imo the offense as a whole, with or without our former qb, didn't have that level of talent the last two years. Losing Akers is a serious hit to a team which has lacked big playmakers in the recent past.

Imo it's instructive to listen to Stafford himself. You're not hearing him predict anything great, at least not yet.

If the trade doesn't work out well the Rams will clearly be in an unfavorable situation. Anyone who thinks that two first round picks wouldn't be missed in that scenario imo is smoking something. The Rams are maxed out on the salary cap and have traded out of all high future draft picks. While the roster at present has several great players-- arguably the key to a championship-- even now the Rams have lost players they might have wanted back and depth is dependent on leveraging inexperienced lower round draft picks to punch above their weight.

Hopefully training camp will start showing us that the high expectations for the offense are the real deal on the field.

The picks won't be missed. They werent missed in the Ramsey trade and they won't be missed for this one either. We're the youngest team in the league and will have 10-11 draft picks next year. The two firsts we traded will likely be late where theres a success rate of something like 40%

Sure we will have to continue to hit on midround picks - but when you have great players, it makes other guys better and makes those picks look better than they would elsewhere.

 

[FrantikRam]

Also - not very many people are focusing on the Lions record with Stafford, which is good - Stafford obliterated Goff in EPA and I'm sure in most advanced metrics that would take into account who your teammates were.

Get ready for a great season - the NFL isn't going to know what hit them.

 

[Memphis Ram]

It's a big risk. The Rams took it because they're all in on winning a championship while Aaron Donald is still playing at an all-universe level. That's the window. And, yes, there's a new stadium to fill.

I support the win now strategy. You can't accomplish something great without going all in. And, given McVay's success so far, the Rams and Kroenke are willing to roll with McVay's best judgment about what he needs to win it all. (Never mind that McVay's best judgment has repeatedly and suddenly changed from being all in to all out on a series of key players.) As I said in another thread, compare the Rams' strategy to win now with Green Bay complacently drafting for a likely mediocre future.

But the risks are real.

Stafford has clear talent but a frankly mediocre career record. He's 33 and has had multiple injuries. He's on a two year contract. It remains to be seen whether he and McVay will truly land on the same page on how the offense best works. Also whether the offense, now without Cam Akers, has the talent to recreate the magic of 2017 and 2018. Imo the offense as a whole, with or without our former qb, didn't have that level of talent the last two years. Losing Akers is a serious hit to a team which has lacked big playmakers in the recent past.

Imo it's instructive to listen to Stafford himself. You're not hearing him predict anything great, at least not yet.

If the trade doesn't work out well the Rams will clearly be in an unfavorable situation. Anyone who thinks that two first round picks wouldn't be missed in that scenario imo is smoking something. The Rams are maxed out on the salary cap and have traded out of all high future draft picks. While the roster at present has several great players-- arguably the key to a championship-- even now the Rams have lost players they might have wanted back and depth is dependent on leveraging inexperienced lower round draft picks to punch above their weight.

Hopefully training camp will start showing us that the high expectations for the offense are the real deal on the field.

Am I the only one also factoring how maintaining the status quo factors in the risk scale? Apparently so.

They went away from paying a QB about $35 freaking million per who was 2nd in the NFL in turnovers (38) since 2019 (70 turnover worthy plays since 2018, most in the NFL per PFF) to obtain a more talented QB who didn't enjoy the circumstances / support Goff had as a Ram.

Yes, Stafford is 33 and had some injuries. But, he's missed 8 games in the last 10 seasons, all of which occurred in 2019. And now he joins an organization that provides him better support, thus he really shouldn't get hit as often as he had in Detroit. Shouldn't that mitigate some of the risk?

Would I like the Rams to still have those draft choices? Sure. But, those draft choices are EVEN MORE of a maybe, what if, we hope, type risk situation than Stafford. Sure you want as many bites of the apple as you can get, but still those aren't guaranteed hits. ESPECIALLY, selections at the bottom of the round. I've been a draftnik for over 35 years and the misses there outweigh the hits. Former Rams GM Charile Armey even pointed out how difficult is was to have success there.

Salary cap? It's been proven time and time again that teams can massage the salary cap to do whatever. Sure, this will mean losing some veterans from time to time, but there's turnover every year and the draft, while important, is just ONE part of the player acquisition process. For example, guys like Austin Corbett, Darious Williams, Troy Hill, Morgan Fox, Malcolm Brown, Cory Littleton and so on weren't drafted. On a side note, I'm hopeful the team has 3-4 UDFA or Waiver pickups that make an impact this year.

All in all, I'm glad to be a fan of a team willing to quickly move off of mistakes.

 

[PhillyRam]

Ya don't. Ya know ya don't. You have written 10,000 words on this forum to the contrary. Just stop.

Bullshit! I want a SB, and simply expressing concern about the biggest offseason move doesn't change that.

 

[PhillyRam]

Am I the only one also factoring how maintaining the status quo factors in the risk scale? Apparently so.

They went away from paying a QB about $35 freaking million per who was 2nd in the NFL in turnovers (38) since 2019 (70 turnover worthy plays since 2018, most in the NFL per PFF) to obtain a more talented QB who didn't enjoy the circumstances / support Goff had as a Ram.

Yes, Stafford is 33 and had some injuries. But, he's missed 8 games in the last 10 seasons, all of which occurred in 2019. And now he joins an organization that provides him better support, thus he really shouldn't get hit as often as he had in Detroit. Shouldn't that mitigate some of the risk?

Would I like the Rams to still have those draft choices? Sure. But, those draft choices are EVEN MORE of a maybe, what if, we hope, type risk situation than Stafford. Sure you want as many bites of the apple as you can get, but still those aren't guaranteed hits. ESPECIALLY, selections at the bottom of the round. I've been a draftnik for over 35 years and the misses there outweigh the hits. Former Rams GM Charile Armey even pointed out how difficult is was to have success there.

Salary cap? It's been proven time and time again that teams can massage the salary cap to do whatever. Sure, this will mean losing some veterans from time to time, but there's turnover every year and the draft, while important, is just ONE part of the player acquisition process. For example, guys like Austin Corbett, Darious Williams, Troy Hill, Morgan Fox, Malcolm Brown, Cory Littleton and so on weren't drafted. On a side note, I'm hopeful the team has 3-4 UDFA or Waiver pickups that make an impact this year.

All in all, I'm glad to be a fan of a team willing to quickly move off of mistakes.

Who had the better OL last yr, Detroit or LA?

How did their TE/ WR rooms compare?

Now sure coaching is a huge advantage here, but let's not act like Stafford was on an expansion team.

He had a solid to very good offensive supporting cast.

 

[PhillyRam]

Jones Career Regular Season Rating (10 seasons)
Games 102, Comp 1,430, Att 2,551, Comp% 56.06, YDS 18,190, YPC 7.1, TD's 124, INT's 101, Rating 78.2




Silent Stan
Gets his Man

BTW, Can't compare his stats to Stafford's... completely diff game back then. Just look at Bradshaw's or Stabler's stats. Hell, even Elway's stats, yrs later, can not be compared.

So that's just silly.

 

[Angry Ram]

He had a solid to very good offensive supporting cast.

No, he didn't. The Lions running game was awful. Unless you word it as the 30th best run game?

They lost Kenny Golladay who only played in 5 games before getting hurt. So they basically force fed Marvin Jones and TJ Hockenson. And on top of all that, their WR group was among the highest in the leageu in dropped passes! https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2020...-pass-rate-running-backs-hockenson-drop-rate/

Matthew Stafford ate 38 sacks. 7th most. His coach got fired halfway into the year. IDK about you, but that doesn't say "very good" to me.

Jared had a top 10 run game, a more healthy and productive WR/TE group, and took only 23 sacks. Yet the O ranked 22nd in scoring. Why? The #1 D's effort often went to waste b/c Jared Goff kept turning the ball over. In all but 4 games. And name one good player on the Lions defense?

The Lions roster was NOT good. There's a reason everyone is excited (well almost everyone) that MS is here, and why there's no buzz with Jared on the Lions.

 

[PhillyRam]

No, he didn't. The Lions running game was awful. Unless you word it as the 30th best run game?

They lost Kenny Golladay who only played in 5 games before getting hurt. So they basically force fed Marvin Jones and TJ Hockenson. And on top of all that, their WR group was among the highest in the leageu in dropped passes! https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2020...-pass-rate-running-backs-hockenson-drop-rate/

Matthew Stafford ate 38 sacks. 7th most. His coach got fired halfway into the year. IDK about you, but that doesn't say "very good" to me.

Jared had a top 10 run game, a more healthy and productive WR/TE group, and took only 23 sacks. Yet the O ranked 22nd in scoring. Why? The #1 D's effort often went to waste b/c Jared Goff kept turning the ball over. In all but 4 games. And name one good player on the Lions defense?

The Lions roster was NOT good. There's a reason everyone is excited (well almost everyone) that MS is here, and why there's no buzz with Jared on the Lions.

Hope your right, but QBs playing hero ball can create sacks as well. Goff was very good at throwing the ball away. Fell short in other areas, but most of his sacks were jail breaks up the gut or Havenstein getting beat quickly. He rarely took coverage sacks.

I have seen Stafford take bad sacks and why I fear he will get dinged up with his style of play.

 

[Angry Ram]

Hope your right, but QBs playing hero ball can create sacks as well. Goff was very good at throwing the ball away. Fell short in other areas, but most of his sacks were jail breaks up the gut or Havenstein getting beat quickly. He rarely took coverage sacks.

I have seen Stafford take bad sacks and why I fear he will get dinged up with his style of play.

JG was a liability big time. Oh and give me hero ball any day of the week over a 22nd ranked scoring O despite a #1 D.

 

[PhillyRam]

JG was a liability big time. Oh and give me hero ball any day of the week over a 22nd ranked scoring O despite a #1 D.

Well at least he will have outside speed, something that we severely lacked last yr, and obviously McVay knew it based on the draft and the Jackson signing.

 

[Loyal]

After a couple of rough years to start his career, Bert Jones was an elite QB for about three seasons but then injuries hit (including his throwing shoulder) and he missed a ton of games before coming to the Rams.

Why let facts clutter up a good narrative about over the hill Stafford, suckage? lol

 

[FrantikRam]

Am I the only one also factoring how maintaining the status quo factors in the risk scale? Apparently so.

They went away from paying a QB about $35 freaking million per who was 2nd in the NFL in turnovers (38) since 2019 (70 turnover worthy plays since 2018, most in the NFL per PFF) to obtain a more talented QB who didn't enjoy the circumstances / support Goff had as a Ram.

Yes, Stafford is 33 and had some injuries. But, he's missed 8 games in the last 10 seasons, all of which occurred in 2019. And now he joins an organization that provides him better support, thus he really shouldn't get hit as often as he had in Detroit. Shouldn't that mitigate some of the risk?

Would I like the Rams to still have those draft choices? Sure. But, those draft choices are EVEN MORE of a maybe, what if, we hope, type risk situation than Stafford. Sure you want as many bites of the apple as you can get, but still those aren't guaranteed hits. ESPECIALLY, selections at the bottom of the round. I've been a draftnik for over 35 years and the misses there outweigh the hits. Former Rams GM Charile Armey even pointed out how difficult is was to have success there.

Salary cap? It's been proven time and time again that teams can massage the salary cap to do whatever. Sure, this will mean losing some veterans from time to time, but there's turnover every year and the draft, while important, is just ONE part of the player acquisition process. For example, guys like Austin Corbett, Darious Williams, Troy Hill, Morgan Fox, Malcolm Brown, Cory Littleton and so on weren't drafted. On a side note, I'm hopeful the team has 3-4 UDFA or Waiver pickups that make an impact this year.

All in all, I'm glad to be a fan of a team willing to quickly move off of mistakes.

You are definitely not the only person. I think the majority of the board recognizes it - there are more people who voted for some variation of "be better than Goff" than people that voted super bowl or bust, so I think most of us recognize that we had to move on from Goff and that Stafford is a good option.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Who had the better OL last yr, Detroit or LA?

How did their TE/ WR rooms compare?

Now sure coaching is a huge advantage here, but let's not act like Stafford was on an expansion team.

He had a solid to very good offensive supporting cast.

Straw.
No one said or even implied that he was on an expansion team.
I just pointed out that Goff had better circumstances.

Anyway, if you're a PFF fan, then the Rams had the better OLine.
Golladay's time missed has already been pointed out.

And the Lions bottom of the league rushing attack and defense didn't help matters either. What did Goff have?

 

[Tano]

Straw.
No one said or even implied that he was on an expansion team.
I just pointed out that Goff had better circumstances.

Anyway, if you're a PFF fan, then the Rams had the better OLine.
Golladay's time missed has already been pointed out.

And the Lions bottom of the league rushing attack and defense didn't help matters either. What did Goff have?

I watched their first 6games and
Their running game was better than 30 rank in the first half but their defense sucked so much that their running game disappeared in the second half

 

[PhillyRam]

Well we shall see how it turns out. I certainly hope he excels and we win a title or at least get to a championship game or two, I am just expressing my concerns about the gamble.

Again we are seeing a swap of QBs. One who never got any credit for winning a hell of a lot of football games, who was traded for a QB that rarely elevated his team, let alone winning many football games, yet never got any blame. So yes it will be interesting to see how those narratives hold up or maybe they explode.


BTW, We haven't had a 4 yr run of successive winning seasons like this since the mid 80's... Think about that. Hopefully it continues.

Time to close this thread... Out.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Weird...like flat Earth weird.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Well we shall see how it turns out. I certainly hope he excels and we win a title or at least get to a championship game or two, I am just expressing my concerns about the gamble.

Again we are seeing a swap of QBs. One who never got any credit for winning a hell of a lot of football games, who was traded for a QB that rarely elevated his team, let alone winning many football games, yet never got any blame. So yes it will be interesting to see how those narratives hold up or maybe they explode.


BTW, We haven't had a 4 yr run of successive winning seasons like this since the mid 80's... Think about that. Hopefully it continues.

Time to close this thread... Out.

Well in case you didn’t get the memo, our 4 year run was in spite of the QB, it was all McVay (to which it he definitely was the driving wheel no doubt)

He absolutely completely orchestrated the offense up to the 15 second cutoff, QB had two calls to audible from (sorry but that is the pure definition of micro managing, and it’s actually rampant throughout the nfl these days)

Yet I was literally called a “moron” for pointing that out (c’est la vie, it’s all good)

Any way, time to focus on camp reports and hopefully I can attend a two or three

Out

 

[Angry Ram]

Well at least he will have outside speed, something that we severely lacked last yr, and obviously McVay knew it based on the draft and the Jackson signing.

I agree with you there. Ever since Brandin Cooks left. It doesn't excuse ill-timed TOs tho.

 

[FarNorth]

Am I the only one also factoring how maintaining the status quo factors in the risk scale? Apparently so.

They went away from paying a QB about $35 freaking million per who was 2nd in the NFL in turnovers (38) since 2019 (70 turnover worthy plays since 2018, most in the NFL per PFF) to obtain a more talented QB who didn't enjoy the circumstances / support Goff had as a Ram.

Yes, Stafford is 33 and had some injuries. But, he's missed 8 games in the last 10 seasons, all of which occurred in 2019. And now he joins an organization that provides him better support, thus he really shouldn't get hit as often as he had in Detroit. Shouldn't that mitigate some of the risk?

Would I like the Rams to still have those draft choices? Sure. But, those draft choices are EVEN MORE of a maybe, what if, we hope, type risk situation than Stafford. Sure you want as many bites of the apple as you can get, but still those aren't guaranteed hits. ESPECIALLY, selections at the bottom of the round. I've been a draftnik for over 35 years and the misses there outweigh the hits. Former Rams GM Charile Armey even pointed out how difficult is was to have success there.

Salary cap? It's been proven time and time again that teams can massage the salary cap to do whatever. Sure, this will mean losing some veterans from time to time, but there's turnover every year and the draft, while important, is just ONE part of the player acquisition process. For example, guys like Austin Corbett, Darious Williams, Troy Hill, Morgan Fox, Malcolm Brown, Cory Littleton and so on weren't drafted. On a side note, I'm hopeful the team has 3-4 UDFA or Waiver pickups that make an impact this year.

All in all, I'm glad to be a fan of a team willing to quickly move off of mistakes.

I agree that trading first rounds picks for a proven experienced qb may make sense. But if it doesn't work out, the picks will be missed.

First round draft picks are valuable. To me the notion that they don't matter is wishful thinking, not reality.

When you're pinning your hopes to get good players on picks at 53, 57, 89, etc., it is clear that having first round picks at say 27 or 28 give you far more choices to get elite athletes and/or more proven or even just healthier players.

This is especially the case if you think, as I do, that the Rams are more astute at drafting than many other teams. They're not wasting their choices-- if they were, they would be wasting them even more picking in the 50's with fewer choices on the table.

And you can't have it both ways and say they would whiff at 28 and instead hit at 58. On the contrary, picking higher at minimum gives you more options to take proven and better players. It also gives you more options to get a player you want at a position you need.

Put it this way-- if the Rams had the future first round picks they have traded away, would they have put them to good use? Of course they would. Would they have picked the same players they picked with lower draft picks? It's a hypothetical, but I doubt it. And if so, they could have instead traded down to get more picks.

Just as the Rams would have signed 2 or 3 more impact players right now, for this season, to make a championship run in 2021, if they weren't out of cap space.