What will it take to make the Stafford trade worth it in your opinion?

[PhillyRam]

The Rams gave up a second round pick for Marshall Faulk. Would you say it was foolish because if Faulk got a bad injury they needed that second rounder to draft a RB?

No...they won a SB and reached another. And he was only 26.

And had be blown out his knee and they never reached a SB, it would have been an unfortunate trade. C'mon.. this isn't that hard.

I mean, by your logic then, RG3 was a great draft pick by Washington.

Outcomes do matter.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

No...they won a SB and reached another. And he was only 26.

And had be blown out his knee and they never reached a SB, it would have been an unfortunate trade. C'mon.. this isn't that hard.

I mean, by your logic then, RG3 was a great draft pick by Washington.

Outcomes do matter.

Lol no the outcome does not always determine the success of the trade. The only outcome that matters is did they get a better player. Ramsey has not gotten the Rams a Superbowl yet but that was still a great trade.

The number one denominator for every team is that they have to have a QB that is capable of taking them to the Super Bowl. If they don’t have one then they need to keep looking for one. The RGIII trade was a success. If a team does not have a good runningback or receiver and can get a proven one the they should. Even if Goff had not reached a Super Bowl (he didn’t win) the trade for Goff was a success because he was better than what they had. That’s how you gauge a trade. Did the team improve the position and get equal or better value with what they gave up? That is the outcome that matters. No trade guarantees a Super Bowl win. One in the history of the league.

Some fans seem to want to set up as many hurdles as possible and make Stafford jump them all so they can say I told you so. Look at it this way. Goff had his chance and McVay needed an upgrade while the roster is so good. Last year was a missed opportunity. McVay has seen enough to think Stafford gives the Rams a better chance to get them back to a Super Bowl because he is a better QB right now.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well, if you could package picks for Stafford you could package picks for another QB, but they now got rid of those assets for a 33 yr old QB.

And no, this year the combined cap hit for Goff/ Stafford exceeds what it would have been for just Goff. That's cap space that could have been spent on keeping a player this yr or carried over to next year to keep a player. And next yr likely Stafford gets a new big contract anyway, where as Goff's dead cap hit was becoming easier to move on from him.

So no, your points are not valid.

No. My points are valid. Your understanding is just lacking.

Keeping with your hypothetical scenario where Stafford suffers a career ending injury, there's a chance that the Rams would struggle to find this legitimate QB even if they kept the picks. That potential struggle remains, even if they held onto Goff this year and tried to move off from him next year.

Why?

Once again, team needs don't influence player availability. Strong QB draft classes in the crapshoot we call the NFL draft aren't the norm and the team is not in a vacuum as there are other teams seeking talent and competing against the Rams, too. In other words, the league won't just bend over and let the Rams get whatever they want because the are the Rams. BTW, this can be used as an argument as to why to make the trade as contrary to what seems to be popular belief, these guys just don't fall off trees.

Capwise, there is just about a $9 million increase in cap space used for both Goff & Stafford this year vs. what it would have been with just Goff (minus a restructure). Sure, the salary cap implications would lessen IF the team decided to move on from Goff next year (adding another hypothetical), but not so much if he had stayed on the team which is what some wanted to happened as he supposedly was reaching his prime.

 

[Faceplant]

Some fans seem to want to set up as many hurdles as possible and make Stafford jump them all so they can say I told you so. Look at it this way. Goff had his chance and McVay needed an upgrade while the roster is so good. Last year was a missed opportunity. McVay has seen enough to think Stafford gives the Rams a better chance to get them back to a Super Bowl because he is a better QB right now.

Nailed it. It's obvious that some are just never going to be able to accept this trade. It is also obvious that their opinions mean diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.

I would rather spend time finding and discussing the positives about our team than to preach a doom and gloom narrative in the hopes that I can say I told you so later.... But that is just how some "fans" roll. Always have to be the smartest "fan" in the forum. My advise.... Don't waste your time with em.

 

[PhillyRam]

No. My points are valid. Your understanding is just lacking.

Keeping with your hypothetical scenario where Stafford suffers a career ending injury, there's a chance that the Rams would struggle to find this legitimate QB even if they kept the picks. That potential struggle remains, even if they held onto Goff this year and tried to move off from him next year.

Why?

Once again, team needs don't influence player availability. Strong QB draft classes in the crapshoot we call the NFL draft aren't the norm and the team is not in a vacuum as there are other teams seeking talent and competing against the Rams, too. In other words, the league won't just bend over and let the Rams get whatever they want because the are the Rams. BTW, this can be used as an argument as to why to make the trade as contrary to what seems to be popular belief, these guys just don't fall off trees.

Capwise, there is just about a $9 million increase in cap space used for both Goff & Stafford this year vs. what it would have been with just Goff (minus a restructure). Sure, the salary cap implications would lessen IF the team decided to move on from Goff next year (adding another hypothetical), but not so much if he had stayed on the team which is what some wanted to happened as he supposedly was reaching his prime.

Well that $9M might cost you Darius Williams or Corbett or both or just needed cap flexibility.

I mean even if Goff flopped, you would have a lot of cap space and picks to build a superior roster even if you had a rookie or young vet QB initially.

So yeah, if Stafford isn't a homerun this will hurt considerably. Thus it was a big & risky trade. Not sure why some are afraid to admit that?

And no, "my understanding is not lacking".

 

[PhillyRam]

Hey, maybe Stafford will be the next Jim Plunkett and win us a couple SB's, or maybe he is another Bert Jones or Steve Bartkowski?

So history could just repeat itself 40 yrs later, just which history will that be?

Of course back then nobody sent 3 top 100 picks, including two 1sts, and a QB with 0.650 win percentage,while taking on an additional $9M cap charge for one of those guys.

So yeah, its risky.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well that $9M might cost you Darius Williams or Corbett or both or just needed cap flexibility.

I mean even if Goff flopped, you would have a lot of cap space and picks to build a superior roster even if you had a rookie or young vet QB initially.

So yeah, if Stafford isn't a homerun this will hurt considerably. Thus it was a big & risky trade. Not sure why some are afraid to admit that?

And no, "my understanding is not lacking".

Yes is it lacking.

An extra $9 million in cap space used this year might cost the Rams Williams and Corbett who aren't free agents until NEXT YEAR when all the dead money for Goff is gone? Next year's cap situation is what those contracts should be based upon when they are free agents. BTW, using your hypothetical view on Stafford, what if they have a career ending injury (or worse yet, not perform up to standard). How might extending them early affect the Rams cap situation? (I think the team has been there before, too via Goff, Gurley, Cooks).

So if Stafford isn't a homerun the Rams will be in a similar boat as if they held on to Goff and his play didn't improve in regards to finding a replacement. Why? Because these guys aren't falling off trees waiting for the Rams to pluck them up while the rest of the league watches and two 1st round picks at the bottom of the round won't change that situation much. Ask the NFL front offices, who have been looking for QBs for years who typically have all their selections on hand.

 

[PhillyRam]

Yes is it lacking.

An extra $9 million in cap space used this year might cost the Rams Williams and Corbett who aren't free agents until NEXT YEAR when all the dead money for Goff is gone? Next year's cap situation is what those contracts should be based upon when they are free agents. BTW, using your hypothetical view on Stafford, what if they have a career ending injury (or worse yet, not perform up to standard). How might extending them early affect the Rams cap situation? (I think the team has been there before, too via Goff, Gurley, Cooks).

So if Stafford isn't a homerun the Rams will be in a similar boat as if they held on to Goff and his play didn't improve in regards to finding a replacement. Why? Because these guys aren't falling off trees waiting for the Rams to pluck them up while the rest of the league watches and two 1st round picks at the bottom of the round won't change that situation much. Ask the NFL front offices, who have been looking for QBs for years who typically have all their selections on hand.

Umm...they can carry over cap space, which they will, but not the $9M they are now spending this yr.

So again you are the one lacking understanding

 

[Tano]

And if the QB had better pocket awareness and moved in it more Blythe wouldn’t have looked as bad.

I watched Stanford’s games and although he definitely has better awareness and mobility, Stafford would still have had issues if Blythe was still center in some of the games. That Jets game, Blythe was just horrible.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Umm...they can carry over cap space, which they will, but not the $9M they are now spending this yr.

So again you are the one lacking understanding

You got me. They can carry over that $9 million. Of course, thanks to the trade they no longer have the extra $24.7 million that is hitting the cap this year for Goff. And Stafford 2022 cap hit is less than what would have been Goff's cap hit if he were still with the team.

Also, they can also make others adjustments to sign both players if they really wanted to do so. Especially, with the expected significant increase in the salary cap next year (something I'm pretty sure the organization considers in making moves).

But, still this doesn't solve the ease of which to obtain another QB.

 

[Loyal]

Hey, maybe Stafford will be the next Jim Plunkett and win us a couple SB's, or maybe he is another Bert Jones or Steve Bartkowski?

So history could just repeat itself 40 yrs later, just which history will that be?

Of course back then nobody sent 3 top 100 picks, including two 1sts, and a QB with 0.650 win percentage,while taking on an additional $9M cap charge for one of those guys.

So yeah, its risky.

It's even more risky to be good, but not good enough. Stafford is a risk worth taking because going to the playoffs and losing is never enough. I think Snead was spot on. Dare to be great and let the haters, hate.

 

[Memphis Ram]

@PhillyRam

Researched the numbers

Goff's proration for 2022 was scheduled to be $6.8 million and his base salary was $25.5 million.
Together that's a $32.3 Million 2022 cap hit for Goff minus another restructure. Even more if he had a roster bonus.

Stafford's 2022 cap hit as of now? $23 million.

Difference $9.3 million. A little more than what you say they could have carried over if they didn't make the trade.

Maybe, Demoff and crew know just what they are doing.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I watched Stanford’s games and although he definitely has better awareness and mobility, Stafford would still have had issues if Blythe was still center in some of the games. That Jets game, Blythe was just horrible.

What I meant was Blythe’s weaknesses would not have been quite as glaring

 

[Merlin]

Some fans seem to want to set up as many hurdles as possible and make Stafford jump them all so they can say I told you so. Look at it this way. Goff had his chance and McVay needed an upgrade while the roster is so good. Last year was a missed opportunity. McVay has seen enough to think Stafford gives the Rams a better chance to get them back to a Super Bowl because he is a better QB right now.

Pretty much. Nice post.

And while they're waiting for failure so they can be right I'm hopefully gonna be on Cloud 9. Watching that badass MFer sling that ball all over the yard and run this offense with intelligence and anticipation of what defenses are trying to do.

 

[So Ram]

@PhillyRam

Researched the numbers

Goff's proration for 2022 was scheduled to be $6.8 million and his base salary was $25.5 million.
Together that's a $32.3 Million 2022 cap hit for Goff minus another restructure. Even more if he had a roster bonus.

Stafford's 2022 cap hit as of now? $23 million.

Difference $9.3 million. A little more than what you say they could have carried over if they didn't make the trade.

Maybe, Demoff and crew know just what they are doing.

Yeah - timing & numbers.

These guys are smart money men. Demoff is into every. Dollar point of it all.The players should also be thankful he is The Son(not a bum) of a Players Agent

 

[Giles]

Lol no the outcome does not always determine the success of the trade. The only outcome that matters is did they get a better player.

Huh?! Are you serious? So you're saying that if the rams have a losing record this season while not having one in 4 seasons as long as Stafford puts up numbers you'll think the trade was a success?
LMAO Wow. That's all I can say to that logic.

 

[PhillyRam]

@PhillyRam

Researched the numbers

Goff's proration for 2022 was scheduled to be $6.8 million and his base salary was $25.5 million.
Together that's a $32.3 Million 2022 cap hit for Goff minus another restructure. Even more if he had a roster bonus.

Stafford's 2022 cap hit as of now? $23 million.

Difference $9.3 million. A little more than what you say they could have carried over if they didn't make the trade.

Maybe, Demoff and crew know just what they are doing.

What your not considering is, if I recall correctly, they could have moved on from Goff next yr with a lot less dead cap hit. Can't look it up now because he is no longer factored in, but I recall at the time that is why I assumed they would go one more yr and then take the $17M dead cap hit if he did not step up. It was in that ball park.

As another post mentioned it may be a risk worth taking. Gamble on greatness... But to say it wasn't risky, is foolish.

We are gambling on greatness on a 33 yr old player that rarely elevated his team...over a 12 yr period. No playoff wins, career 89 rated passer, and few winning seasons. Plus, he has started to get banged up a bit the last few yrs and his playing style will put him at more risk.

I will say it again, people essentially say that Russell Wilson takes a 6 win Seattle team to the playoffs every year... Matt Stafford takes a 6 win Detroit team to about 6-8 wins.

 

[Loyal]

Pretty much. Nice post.

And while they're waiting for failure so they can be right I'm hopefully gonna be on Cloud 9. Watching that badass MFer sling that ball all over the yard and run this offense with intelligence and anticipation of what defenses are trying to do.

View attachment 46797

 

[PhillyRam]

Lol no the outcome does not always determine the success of the trade. The only outcome that matters is did they get a better player. Ramsey has not gotten the Rams a Superbowl yet but that was still a great trade.

The number one denominator for every team is that they have to have a QB that is capable of taking them to the Super Bowl. If they don’t have one then they need to keep looking for one. The RGIII trade was a success. If a team does not have a good runningback or receiver and can get a proven one the they should. Even if Goff had not reached a Super Bowl (he didn’t win) the trade for Goff was a success because he was better than what they had. That’s how you gauge a trade. Did the team improve the position and get equal or better value with what they gave up? That is the outcome that matters. No trade guarantees a Super Bowl win. One in the history of the league.

Some fans seem to want to set up as many hurdles as possible and make Stafford jump them all so they can say I told you so. Look at it this way. Goff had his chance and McVay needed an upgrade while the roster is so good. Last year was a missed opportunity. McVay has seen enough to think Stafford gives the Rams a better chance to get them back to a Super Bowl because he is a better QB right now.

So if outcome doesn't matter, Bradford was a hell of draft pick. Improved the team for a yr, improved the QB position. Best money ever spent.

Your view is like saying a guy's decision to marry his girlfriend was great, because it was an initial improvement over his single life. The fact that two yrs later she divorced him and took half his shit, and is now receiving alimony, is beside the point. Great move to walk down that aisle son.

 

[PhillyRam]

Pretty much. Nice post.

And while they're waiting for failure so they can be right I'm hopefully gonna be on Cloud 9. Watching that badass MFer sling that ball all over the yard and run this offense with intelligence and anticipation of what defenses are trying to do.

View attachment 46797

Hey, I hope he wins MVP. Hope he carries this team as far as possible, but I am not blinded by team colors and assume he turns into Tom Brady all of sudden. You know, the guy who went to an organization with a losing culture and won a SB in one yr. A guy who actually elevated his new team, while his old team fell off a cliff without him.