Well, it’s mercifully over...

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Riverumbbq

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
7,114
Name
River
The problem, as I stated earlier, wasn't that he just had a few rookie struggles. He was over matched completely.
I would be more than happy to see Allen succeed.
From what I've seen, even after 6 games, he has / had a long way to go before even being a solid back up.

Yup, ... and the Rams traded for Corbett just prior to Allen's injury because he was struggling so much. Had Corbett had the time to learn the line calls he likely would have taken over the position mid/later 2019. Instead, both Allen & Noteboom go down and Corbett is rushed into a LG role as Blythe, as the only starter who knew those line calls is moved inside from RG. Covid 2020 prevented Corbett from moving inside as there was no real pre-season camp or games to be played, so it was just bad luck all around. Edwards & Corbett, both first time OL starters in 2019 really saved our bacon that season. jmo.
 

PressureD41

Les Snead's Draft Advisor
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
3,487
Name
Eddy
Yup, ... and the Rams traded for Corbett just prior to Allen's injury because he was struggling so much. Had Corbett had the time to learn the line calls he likely would have taken over the position mid/later 2019. Instead, both Allen & Noteboom go down and Corbett is rushed into a LG role as Blythe, as the only starter who knew those line calls is moved inside from RG. Covid 2020 prevented Corbett from moving inside as there was no real pre-season camp or games to be played, so it was just bad luck all around. Edwards & Corbett, both first time OL starters in 2019 really saved our bacon that season. jmo.
This makes so much sense on so many levels. Great insight bro
 

Merlin

Cheap Seat Vagrant
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
21,002
Ok, that's a piece of the puzzle I wasn't aware of. Not sure moving fwd I like Shula having a major say in pick selection. Never been a fan of his. Cheers
I get that. But if you judge Shula on the performance of the talent he was given the last two years I'd give him a A with no hesitation. He maximized what he had IMO.

I was even wondering if he'd get an interview for DC when Staley was hired away. Don't think he did though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mojo Ram

Mojo Ram

Horns for life
Moderator
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
20,027
Name
mojo
Offense

Starter Backup Third-string Reserve

QB Matthew Stafford John Wolford Bryce Perkins Devlin Hodges
RB Cam Akers Darrell Henderson Xavier Jones Raymond Calais, Jake Funk
WR1 Robert Woods Trishton Jackson Ben Skowronek
WR2 Van Jefferson DeSean Jackson Jeremiah Haydel
Slot Cooper Kupp Tutu Atwell Nsimba Webster J.J. Koski, Landen Akers
TE Tyler Higbee Johnny Mundt Brycen Hopkins Kendall Blanton, Jacob Harris
LT Andrew Whitworth Joe Noteboom
LG David Edwards Jamil Demby
C Austin Corbett Brian Allen Coleman Shelton
RG Bobby Evans Tremayne Anchrum Jordan Meredith
RT Rob Havenstein Chandler Brewer Alaric Jackson

Defense

Starter Backup Third-string Reserve

DT Aaron Donald Michael Hoecht Marquise Copeland George Silvanic
NT Sebastian Joseph-Day Greg Gaines Bobby Brown III
DE A’Shawn Robinson Earnest Brown IV Jonah Williams Eric Banks
ROLB Justin Hollins Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Justin Lawler Max Roberts
LOLB Leonard Floyd Terrell Lewis Chris Garrett
ILB1 Ernest Jones Troy Reeder Micah Kiser Derrick Moncrief
ILB2 Travin Howard Kenny Young Christian Rozeboom
CB1 Jalen Ramsey Robert Rochell
CB2 Darious Williams
Nickel CB David Long Jr. Donte Deayon Brontae Harris
FS Jordan Fuller Nick Scott JuJu Hughes Paris Ford, Troy Warner
SS Terrell Burgess Taylor Rapp Jake Gervase J.R. Reed, Jovan Grant
iu
 

Riverumbbq

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
7,114
Name
River
Not relevant to any particular discussion here, but I find it pretty wild that McVay hasnt ever drafted a QB.

OK, since you have offered a 'not relevant to any particular discussion' post, i'll offer another one. Brad Holmes has been mentioned by several posters for might being a reason behind a poor or great 2021 draft, ... actually, mostly suggestions about his absence leading to a poor draft. Holmes is rightfully credited as a great leader in his department, and well deserving of his new GM appointment, but you can bet that the Rams were well into the process of stacking their draft board before Holmes was plucked away from us, and it's not like he just snuck off into the night with all our 2021 draft secrets. There are a lot of guys coming together who put this thing together while Holmes oversees this end of the operation. Holmes should receive credit or discredit for much of the 2021 draft just as in his previous years, but it will be future years where Holmes' input is missed, not so much 2021. jmo.
 

Gandalf

Pro Bowler
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,267
Yes... but Snead also stated that guys they wanted were taken off the board before they picked. The actual picks don’t represent their ultimate intentions but instead how they tracted to the specific opportunities presented.
This is true for a lot of teams.
 

FarNorth

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
1,808
So the Rams basically value the, what? 8th to 20th ranked WR over the 1st or 2nd ranked OC in Humphrey? I don't get it. On top of that, they went and added 2 more WRs. Or is it a TE and a WR or a TE and a FB/WR. I have no idea. But I thought this was McVay forcing this explosives idea on the draft. Instead of letting it come to them.

As far as the OL. This was an exceptionally deep OL class, and they didn't take advantage of it. I don't get it. Half the OL are FAs, some restricted. Havs could very well be a cap cut next year and Whit is older than Yoda. This was a great year to reload. And to there point that they wouldn't have gotten playing time? As opposed to all the playing time Harris and Skowronek and Brown IV and Garrett will get? Or Hopkins and Jefferson got last year? They redshirt everyone. Anchrum was a redshirt. I'm not buying it.
Excellent post! Wanted to highlight your comments about McVay going for explosives over the oline because I think it was the inflection point of this draft.

Imo view this is a considered strategy, if not a gamble, by McVay. This is the case even allowing for the possibility that the Rams may have wanted to take a center such as Dalman but lost out when he dropped off the board right before the slot we might have used for him.

McVay is not into ordinary, classic inside out team building at this point. Just as he is not playing by the rules of building through high picks in the draft.

This is still win now mode, even allowing that draft picks may not see the field immediately. To make this happen imo McVay's strategy is to stoke the offense with speed and playmakers as much as possible. McVay in January spoke at length about the need for more explosives. Now he is trying to make it happen.

I think McVay is keenly aware that the offense was limited in this respect last year. McVay has perhaps staked his reputation on Stafford turning around the offense. In any event McVay obviously wants and needs Stafford to succeed (and to resign with the Rams, which is not yet a done deal.) To help ensure this McVay wants Stafford to have multiple weapons and playmakers, in particular to have players with speed, to stretch the field, and maybe to take the top off the D.

In addition, I think McVay knows that the O had become too predictable to defenses. Sweeps and deception weren't having the effect needed. Defenses were sitting on the routes, and attacking on third and long passing plays. I think McVay wanted an x-factor playmaker in addition to DSJ (who is also an injury risk) to force defenses out of their scheme and into making uncomfortable choices at the snap. Disrupt the defense's plan. Kind of like an attack on an IT system.

It is also now clear (despite my earlier speculation to the contrary) that McVay himself had identified Tutu Atwell as the guy he wanted before the draft (to Peter Schroeger), calling him DSJ Jr. and stating we would take him if he was there. All 160 current pounds of him. Not so much less than DJS coming out of the draft at 165.

Not surprisingly, because it was McVay's strategy, this approach won out over any other internal preferences (and that of many posters and press) for a solid team building approach of drafting a center or future left tackle. Maybe Aaron Kromer wanted draft picks and found out he wasn't going to get them. Brad Holmes took exactly the opposite approach in Detroit, taking the best left tackle in the draft and some powerful defensive linemen.

We'll see how it works and when Atwell gets on the field. I don't expect him to sit all season, and certainly not if DSJ is injured.
 
Last edited:

dieterbrock

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
2020 ROD Survivor Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
16,366
OK, since you have offered a 'not relevant to any particular discussion' post, i'll offer another one. Brad Holmes has been mentioned by several posters for might being a reason behind a poor or great 2021 draft, ... actually, mostly suggestions about his absence leading to a poor draft. Holmes is rightfully credited as a great leader in his department, and well deserving of his new GM appointment, but you can bet that the Rams were well into the process of stacking their draft board before Holmes was plucked away from us, and it's not like he just snuck off into the night with all our 2021 draft secrets. There are a lot of guys coming together who put this thing together while Holmes oversees this end of the operation. Holmes should receive credit or discredit for much of the 2021 draft just as in his previous years, but it will be future years where Holmes' input is missed, not so much 2021. jmo.
Losing Holmes is great for him, but like most promotions leaves a hole behind. The true greats, in all lines of work leave the place in better shape than when they found it. During that draft they showed all the young bucks working in the scouting dept. they’ve got quite a system.
To your point I totally agree that the true affect of his loss really doesn’t take affect until future drafts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riverumbbq

Mackeyser

Won't you be my neighbor?
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
11,630
Name
Mack
Armchair GM's are basically the backbone of football fan sites, and it's an extremely rare day we hear about a fan claiming to know more than the GM. This is just whining while creating a strawman argument.
Over the years i've seen several local mockers outshine the media pundit talking heads. It's always going to be a gamble when trying to pick a small squad out of up to 2000 available players who compete across the country, so it's not necessarily so much about the player as it is the position. The other thing is that no one can confirm a bad armchair GM unless a player he likes busts immediately, as the guy might be playing exceptionally well for another team. Many mocks show a consensus among fans concerning team needs, and this re-enforces interest. When a team, for example, has 3 OL starters facing free agency AND their top LT may be looking at retirement, somewhere along the way someone is going to ask about depth, and if it isn't taken seriously, and you end up losing quality players, then people might seek answers. No-one has said it's too late and good players won't get extensions, but the specter remains until fans are satisfied it's being addressed.
You criticize some for choosing players who go later than anticipated, what about those who have gone earlier ?
Football is a game, mocks & playing at GM are just part of it, perhaps you should pull that stick out of your behind and enjoy it, or just ignore those with opinions other than your own. It's not that hard.

Only bit is that this draft class had just over 600 and included players who didn't play in 2020 due to COVID and others who played shortened seasons... so evals were all over the place.

I was expecting this.

NEXT year is gonna be WILD as there is gonna be nearly 4 TIMES as many in the draft pool as this year... so expect trade downs... if possible.. and throw the draft chart out the window. With that many players and the "super seniors" which aren't typically part of the draft class... again, evals are gonna be all over the place and won't be wrong, per se, just only have so many draft slots per round.
 

FarNorth

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
1,808
Losing Holmes is great for him, but like most promotions leaves a hole behind. The true greats, in all lines of work leave the place in better shape than when they found it. During that draft they showed all the young bucks working in the scouting dept. they’ve got quite a system.
To your point I totally agree that the true affect of his loss really doesn’t take affect until future drafts.

Holmes’ impact in Detroit is immediate and big.
 

FarNorth

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
1,808
For me the key is he played well at OG for us so at least we know he can hold up physically which is a big difference from Blythe. The Rams mentioning sand in the pants at Center makes sense, that was the problem with Austin. Some games he would be ok, but put a good nose over him and it was Chernobyl up front.

The only thing that bothers me about Corbett is that he's a FA after this season. So we may be looking for LT and C this time next year.
Rams will have a lot more money next year. Not clear how much, tbd with the salary cap, but I suspect they feel ok about signing/resigning players then.
 
  • Cheers
Reactions: nighttrain

So Ram

Legend
Camp Reporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
7,682
Holmes’ impact in Detroit is immediate and big.

Ray Agnew as well. Pleasant is a good CB coach who might be there DC or a NFL team near you ? Still doesn’t take away from what The Rams want to do.
Jared Goff vs Mathew Stafford plus 2 1st & a 3rd ? The impact there is game on ? Mcvay knows what he wants and how he wants to build this thing.
 
  • Cheers
Reactions: nighttrain

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
14,870
No one said anything about having your own opinion. I simply stated that , because drafting is hard, maybe the opinion doesn't need to crap all over Les and Sean as if we have the answers. I challenge you to show me where I criticized anyone for having an opinion. Straight up projection there
Oh, so nobody is allowed to have a negative opinion. What makes a positive opinion more valid? Is it because we agree with the infallable NFL GM?. Give me a break. My, and others opinions are as valid as anyone else's including Snead or any other NFL GM when it comes to a message board. How many of us were screaming for him not trade back when Wagner was there for the taking. How many wanted him to stay pat and draft Deandre Hopkins instead of moving up for Tavon? Just a few examples mind you.. He's not above criticism and many here have made as accurate and sometimes we more accurate decisions than Snead has. Does it mean we are qualified to do all of the things GMs do? No. Picking players in a draft and assessing team needs is not rocket science. Yet GMs make mistakes very often. I think one of Sneads 's most common mistake is miscalculations who will be selected when. He gambles too much then doesn't get his guy. I recently read an article ranking GMs. Les was number 15. So its not just a few Rams fans that think he's not perfect.
There's a huge difference between having an opinion and having a "I know better than the pros" take. For example, I try very hard to say a player is playing poorly vs the player "sucks" since I could never do 1/100th of what they do lol
Anyone even playing in division one or being considered draftable has accomplished more than the average Joe. They are great athletes and worked hard to get where they are. But the context regarding the draft is 'are they NFL level players' and do they address a need? Taking it out of context will lead you down the wrong path.
For me the key is he played well at OG for us so at least we know he can hold up physically which is a big difference from Blythe. The Rams mentioning sand in the pants at Center makes sense, that was the problem with Austin. Some games he would be ok, but put a good nose over him and it was Chernobyl up front.

The only thing that bothers me about Corbett is that he's a FA after this season. So we may be looking for LT and C this time next year.
It sure would be nice to have a second year center backing him up when he's a free agent, just in case they cannot afford to resign Corbett. There were a few that looked capable, or I should say more capable than the backups they have now. The fact that they plan to move Corbett over to center instead of saying its Alien and Shelf ones job to lose, says it alk to me. They don't see either as an NFL starter. That's a serious problem imo. One injury and it will set back the offense.
We've technically only seen Brian Allen for like six games of his career. He got injured in the middle of his rookie season and then was out all of last year. So we really don't have any idea. Had Brian Allen been a second round pick I don't think we would give up on him so fast. So we really don't have any idea. Had Brian Allen been a second round pick I don't think we would give up on him so fast.
He was not good. PFF Oline rankings are fubar imo. Allen could not block in space. He rarely reached his target and when he did he whiffed on the block. He was killing the run game along with Noteboom who had the same problem. Allen was weak in pass pro. He had problems that will only be compounded by his injury. I don't think anyone can teach how to fix his flaws just as they couldn't improve Blythe. Things like speed, vision, acceleration, timing etc are hard to improve on at the pro level
 

tempests

Hall of Fame
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
2,114
The thing about the draft that troubles me is that it seems like common sense left the building (to Detroit) which does not bode well for the future.

I think the coaching staff and the GM need the mitigating force of a veteran personnel guy to ground them in reality.
Well, Snead has more scouting experience than Holmes does.

Rams drafted undersized players with their first and second round picks when Holmes was here. That's not new. If the Rams think a player can play, they're not going to let their height and weight scare them away. Nor do they care about conventional wisdom or what it says about their draft. That was established early on in Snead's tenure.