Urban Meyer is a complete scumbag.

[LesBaker]

It isn’t as big as Ohio State ignoring complaints from students for many years about their esteemed doctor doing what he did. Someone dropped the ball on that one repeatedly.

I agree on that point, who wouldn't.

Why I figured you were an OSU fan was because your uninformed opinion of the Sandusky case is just how most OSU fans sound. I was far from a Paterno fan. But I never believed that a guy who was adored by so many that new him and nearly every one of his players, who was so charitable in the community was the supporting his former coach in sexually abusing children.

I don't think I am all that uninformed about it actually.

UM evidently knew about this, knew that it was an ongoing problem. He could have done more. This situation is nothing like what happened with the team Doctor, or what happened at PSU. While it's fucking hideous it's not on that level.

I think you maybe thought I was equating the three.......... I am not.

Could he legally fire him on those grounds? I don’t know. I

I've thought about this, and my guess is that in a normal job you probably couldn't but most high level coaching positions, meaning anything above high school, have clauses in the contracts about behavior etc so there is a chance he could. He could also just ask for his resignation too.

Anyway I hope that cleared things up!

 

[Corbin]

I live in Florida, I'm from Ohio but have never been an OSU fan and hardly follow any college sports, almost none.

So I'm not sure why you are saying what you are saying. No hate is involved so my judgement isn't clouded one bit.



I'm really confused now. Are you saying that UM knowing that a hand picked assistant was beating his wife and kept him on staff is OK with you?

I don't understand, because this isn't a minor issue. It isn't a gigantic issue like PSU was, but it isn't minor. At least not IMO.

It isn’t as big as Ohio State ignoring complaints from students for many years about their esteemed doctor doing what he did. Someone dropped the ball on that one repeatedly. At least at PSU the crimes were reported, and investigated by state and local police plus Children and youth. Thing is you can’t prosecute without a witness or victim. It wasn’t until years later that a victim agreed to press charges. McQuery was too scared to come forward like Paterno said he should. So what was Patrno supposed to do about it, especially when PSU attorneys told him he can’t do anything legally. They couldn’t even revoke Sanduskey’s severance agreement that granted Sandusky access to campus. Yet Ohio State brushed years of complaints under the rug for their esteemed colleague. And Sanduskey wasn’t raping college students or kids he met on campus. It was through his charity the Second Mile. Most of his perversion occurred at his home. Paterno wanted him gone in the 90’s . Yet Ohio State students complained about the Dr for years with no recourse.
So Meyer knowing about his coach supposedly beating his wife, suddenly seems minor to me. Especially since we don’t know the truth about it. I didnt want him coaching at PSU but I won’t jump on the witch burning bandwagon until I know something for real. Now I don’t believe Meyer to be honest, but what do I know? Maybe Meyer was trying to help the guy or maybe he just didn’t care. But it seems odd that he didn’t dismiss the coach as soon as he heard he was doing it. Could he legally fire him on those grounds? I don’t know. I used to work with young people. I tried to help them repeatedly before giving up. Some I never quit on, even though I probably should have. Is this a similar case?

Why I figured you were an OSU fan was because your uninformed opinion of the Sandusky case is just how most OSU fans sound. I was far from a Paterno fan. But I never believed that a guy who was adored by so many that new him and nearly every one of his players, who was so charitable in the community was the supporting his former coach in sexually abusing children.

Guys guys. Come on. Can we just admit that there is scumbags at MSU, PSU, and OSU and they don’t have the morales, ethics, or prestige of the best college and winingiest college football program in the country?

View attachment 25778

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Guys guys. Come on. Can we just admit that there is scumbags at MSU, PSU, and OSU and they don’t have the morales, ethics, or prestige of the best college and winingiest college football program in the country?

View attachment 25778

It just hasn’t come out yet. After all Harbaugh clept over at a high school recruits house in a desperate attempt to get him to sign. And it worked.


I do agree that when it comes time to make the tough decisions that will rock the boat, not many are willing to take the lead. Most sit by hoping someone else sticks their necks out, and it rarely happens.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Agree on Meyer.

But I hope you're not saying that a doctor that fondled grown men is as bad as what Sandusky did..

I am saying that there were plenty of complaints by victims, at Ohio State, yet nothing was done about it. That is worse than not getting complaints from
Victims and having an assistant coach give an inexact account of what he witnessed and still reporting it to the police.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I agree on that point, who wouldn't.



I don't think I am all that uninformed about it actually.

UM evidently knew about this, knew that it was an ongoing problem. He could have done more. This situation is nothing like what happened with the team Doctor, or what happened at PSU. While it's freaking hideous it's not on that level.

I think you maybe thought I was equating the three.......... I am not.



I've thought about this, and my guess is that in a normal job you probably couldn't but most high level coaching positions, meaning anything above high school, have clauses in the contracts about behavior etc so there is a chance he could. He could also just ask for his resignation too.

Anyway I hope that cleared things up!

I meant uninformed about the Sanduskey case. Initial news coverage spread tons of misinformation. It wasn’t until a few years later that it went to court, that the true details came out. I dpent months reading through the entire case. The media initially painted Paterno as a piece of shit. But they omitted so much to fit the narrative. The media wanted the shock approach and America wants everything packaged nice and neatly with a clear focus on who to blame. Paterno was the easy target. Nobody outside looking in cared about the facts or any details. Otherwise most would realize that Joe wasn’t to blame for it.

 

[FrantikRam]

I am saying that there were plenty of complaints by victims, at Ohio State, yet nothing was done about it. That is worse than not getting complaints from
Victims and having an assistant coach give an inexact account of what he witnessed and still reporting it to the police.

With everything that's come out recently about sexual harassment/assault, I would be willing to bet that something like this has happened at almost every university.

You use the word "victim", which is fine I guess, but these were grown men who I'm willing to bet could easily over power this doctor if they so chose.

Now obviously there's a different dynamic because his position granted him some power - but it's not like these were children or even women, and unfortunately double standards do exist in life. Was he a bad guy? Absolutely. Is it atrocious that Ohio State brushed the complaints under a rug? Yes.

But then again, we had a period where nearly every university was not taking a woman's sexual assault complaint seriously, which is basically what this was - that gives me some perspective. At the end of the day, colleges in general are awful places to be. NCAA sports in general might be the most corrupt organization in the world.


But what you have to understand is that what Sandusky did was arguably the worst thing a human being can do - and he was employed at Penn State. You've obviously researched the specifics to a "T", so I don't want to say much more because I have not - but IIRC he even did some of it on the campus of Penn State. And think about it: half the country wants to see Urban Meyer fired because he knew about a man beating his wife - so it stands to reason Penn State receive the death penalty or whatever happened to them for even one person knowing, or even suspecting, what Sandusky was doing.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

With everything that's come out recently about sexual harassment/assault, I would be willing to bet that something like this has happened at almost every university.

You use the word "victim", which is fine I guess, but these were grown men who I'm willing to bet could easily over power this doctor if they so chose.

Now obviously there's a different dynamic because his position granted him some power - but it's not like these were children or even women, and unfortunately double standards do exist in life. Was he a bad guy? Absolutely. Is it atrocious that Ohio State brushed the complaints under a rug? Yes.

But then again, we had a period where nearly every university was not taking a woman's sexual assault complaint seriously, which is basically what this was - that gives me some perspective. At the end of the day, colleges in general are awful places to be. NCAA sports in general might be the most corrupt organization in the world.


But what you have to understand is that what Sandusky did was arguably the worst thing a human being can do - and he was employed at Penn State. You've obviously researched the specifics to a "T", so I don't want to say much more because I have not - but IIRC he even did some of it on the campus of Penn State. And think about it: half the country wants to see Urban Meyer fired because he knew about a man beating his wife - so it stands to reason Penn State receive the death penalty or whatever happened to them for even one person knowing, or even suspecting, what Sandusky was doing.

Sandusky was not a PSU employee when he was discovered by McQuery with a boy in the showers. Sandusky was always regarded as a bit creepy when he coached at PSU, like being too touchy feely. Paterson didn't like him even when he was his DC. Joe wanted to fire Sanduskey when he started to realise that he was weird with players. He was overruled, by his employers and Sanduskey was tabbed as Joe's successor. He was an excellent Defensive coach and everyone that didn't know him well wanted Joe to retire and let JS take over. I think in 1999. Joe refused to step down and once JS new he wouldn't be the next HC at Penn State he retired to work on his charity, the second mile. He was still under contract however. So he negotiated a severance package. Part of the deal was that he would always have access to campus and athletic facilities. Once McQueery saw him in the showers with the boy, Paterno tried to have him permanently removed from campus. But, there wasn't any charges or conviction, so legally PSU was not allowed to kick him out. Sandusky used the Second Mile to prey on kids. That organisation helped kids in need, and he used the PSU facilities to coax them to go with him. He was not an employee though. And nobody at PSU ignored complaints. They were reported.


I would love nothing more than to see Ohio State Football dominance hampered a bit. But, in Meyer's case it is not all that clear yet. Your comment on the death penalty hits home. Who was punished with the PSU sanctions? Fans and players that had nothing to do with any of it. The sanctions were bogus too because once it got to court and evidence was brought forth, Emmett was laughed out of court. There never was a football culture problem at PSU. In fact it was more of a culture problem at Ohio $Taint with Tressell. Players getting cars and money. Recruits getting favors. Russell used his holy image to hide all of the recruiting violations. I think Meyer is a phony but I don't hate him. I hated Tressell though and was glad to see him fall. As for Death Penalties, that should never happen. The perils, coaches who commit the crimes just leave and go unpunished. The players on the team are punished, the school is punished, the fans and alumni are punished. It's ass backwards.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

@FrantikRam I didn't research the Sanduskey scandal as much as I just followed it. At first many of us weren't sure what to believe, but leaned toward denouncing Paterno. ESPN came down hard and reported the facts...supposedly. It came out later that even ESPN was aware of many contradictory information that didn't support their story. They chose to omit it. All of their employees were ripping Paterno and PSU relentlessly. Later when it hit the courts, even a douche like Cowherd, was saying it was all wrong. ESPN reported with a Howard Stern mentality. Outrage and shock gets viewers and ratings.

PSU fans continued to follow the story while most of America stopped with the initial reports. Anyone that continued to track what was going on, found out the truth. Anyone that didn't still believes the ESPN version. It changed my lynch mob mentality. I was quick to celebrate USC's sanctions in the past. But in reality Pete Carroll went unscathed and innocents paid the price. Now I am more cautious, and reserve my judgement. Many PSU fans just want retribution though. The constant jabs at them and their football team were misguided. To this day Iowa Hawkeye fans are still doing it. Most schools have stopped years ago. The best fan base through all of it has been Alabama. I don't know where they got their wisdom from but I have decided to be more like them.

Ohio State fans need not worry. If Meyer is fired, they will still land a good coach. The job is too attractive. The money is good, the school has a lasting reputation as a football power. Maybe they don't get a few recruits that Meyer would, but they would remain contenders.

 

[FrantikRam]

@FrantikRam I didn't research the Sanduskey scandal as much as I just followed it. At first many of us weren't sure what to believe, but leaned toward denouncing Paterno. ESPN came down hard and reported the facts...supposedly. It came out later that even ESPN was aware of many contradictory information that didn't support their story. They chose to omit it. All of their employees were ripping Paterno and PSU relentlessly. Later when it hit the courts, even a douche like Cowherd, was saying it was all wrong. ESPN reported with a Howard Stern mentality. Outrage and shock gets viewers and ratings.

PSU fans continued to follow the story while most of America stopped with the initial reports. Anyone that continued to track what was going on, found out the truth. Anyone that didn't still believes the ESPN version. It changed my lynch mob mentality. I was quick to celebrate USC's sanctions in the past. But in reality Pete Carroll went unscathed and innocents paid the price. Now I am more cautious, and reserve my judgement. Many PSU fans just want retribution though. The constant jabs at them and their football team were misguided. To this day Iowa Hawkeye fans are still doing it. Most schools have stopped years ago. The best fan base through all of it has been Alabama. I don't know where they got their wisdom from but I have decided to be more like them.

Ohio State fans need not worry. If Meyer is fired, they will still land a good coach. The job is too attractive. The money is good, the school has a lasting reputation as a football power. Maybe they don't get a few recruits that Meyer would, but they would remain contenders.

Honestly, I'm an Ohio State fan because I was born and raised (and still live) in Columbus and because I love football. I grow to loathe college football more and more every year - and while there are a ton of diehard Browns fans in Columbus, and a few Bengals fans, because of the success of OSU and lack of success for Cincy and Cleveland, most people here prefer college football - which drives me crazy. My wife did go to OSU and had season tickets, so I watch with her - and I'll root for Ohio State - but it's nowhere near the level of the Rams.

During the dark stretch for the Rams that we just came out of, I would tell people that I would watch Ohio State lose to Michigan 100-0 every Saturday if it meant the Rams even having just a playoff season.

When I heard about USC and Reggie Bush, it donned on me that it's likely that every major college program does something sketchy like that. I don't necessarily think NCAA athletes should be paid, but it's kind of crazy how much money these programs make while at best the players are getting scholarships.

And then being a fan of a "powerhouse", it's hardly entertaining to watch them win 8 games a year by 40 points. The NFL is so much more competitive on a game by game basis it's sickening. It killed me when some Ohio State fans were talking about how impressive it was that we won the championship with a 3rd string QB - not thinking and/or realizing that Ohio State's 3rd best QB is going to be better than most teams starting QB.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Honestly, I'm an Ohio State fan because I was born and raised (and still live) in Columbus and because I love football. I grow to loathe college football more and more every year - and while there are a ton of diehard Browns fans in Columbus, and a few Bengals fans, because of the success of OSU and lack of success for Cincy and Cleveland, most people here prefer college football - which drives me crazy. My wife did go to OSU and had season tickets, so I watch with her - and I'll root for Ohio State - but it's nowhere near the level of the Rams.

During the dark stretch for the Rams that we just came out of, I would tell people that I would watch Ohio State lose to Michigan 100-0 every Saturday if it meant the Rams even having just a playoff season.

When I heard about USC and Reggie Bush, it donned on me that it's likely that every major college program does something sketchy like that. I don't necessarily think NCAA athletes should be paid, but it's kind of crazy how much money these programs make while at best the players are getting scholarships.

And then being a fan of a "powerhouse", it's hardly entertaining to watch them win 8 games a year by 40 points. The NFL is so much more competitive on a game by game basis it's sickening. It killed me when some Ohio State fans were talking about how impressive it was that we won the championship with a 3rd string QB - not thinking and/or realizing that Ohio State's 3rd best QB is going to be better than most teams starting QB.

I prefer an NFL best down to a college beat down every time. Wh? It’s more of an even playing field in the NFL. Nothing prevents college teams from signing the best recruits. It gets old having the same few teams dominate. I rarely watch the PSU games against weak opponents in there entirety.

 

[dieterbrock]

So this is just going away, huh?
Amazing

 

[Debacled]

Its very hard to play the blame game here when the authorities didn't even do anything about this situation until this past July which is when Smith was canned from Ohio State. They took action the moment this evolved from a he said she said situation. Even if you look at everything that reporter posted from the police department it doesn't look as if Smith was ever arrested or charged with anything, just investigated.

Acting on nothing but allegations is knee jerk. Hard to believe any professional coach would fire a member of their staff that they have worked with for over 10 years without anything other than hearsay to go on.

 

[jrry32]

So this is just going away, huh?
Amazing

Of course. Ohio State needed time to see if it would blow over and if Urban's value was more than the PR hit they'd take. They were looking for any reason to keep him, and it seems they've found it.

Its very hard to play the blame game here when the authorities didn't even do anything about this situation until this past July which is when Smith was canned from Ohio State. They took action the moment this evolved from a he said she said situation. Even if you look at everything that reporter posted from the police department it doesn't look as if Smith was ever arrested or charged with anything, just investigated.

Acting on nothing but allegations is knee jerk. Hard to believe any professional coach would fire a member of their staff that they have worked with for over 10 years without anything other than hearsay to go on.

There were DV allegations going back to 2009 that Meyer knew about. Meyer simply didn't care. It's his way. Great coach but a scummy person.

 

[Debacled]

Of course. Ohio State needed time to see if it would blow over and if Urban's value was more than the PR hit they'd take. They were looking for any reason to keep him, and it seems they've found it.



There were DV allegations going back to 2009 that Meyer knew about. Meyer simply didn't care. It's his way. Great coach but a scummy person.

Again allegations. No charges were ever brought (or even any restraining orders issued until this July for that matter). I'm not saying Smith is innocent at all, but Meyer had nothing to go off of except allegations that weren't acted upon.

 

[jrry32]

Again allegations. No charges were ever brought (or even any restraining orders issued until this July for that matter). I'm not saying Smith is innocent at all, but Meyer had nothing to go off of except allegations that weren't acted upon.

Were Joe Paterno's actions in the Sandusky scandal acceptable to you because no charges had been brought at the time it was allegedly reported to him?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Were Joe Paterno's actions in the Sandusky scandal acceptable to you because no charges had been brought at the time it was allegedly reported to him?

I don't understand what either is supposed to. Let's assume that they heard rumors but didn't believe them, but became suspicious. Is it right to react in that case? I have kids, and had many employees. In both cases I need facts, or a very compelling argument to act. Especially in the case of the employee, if he were a good one. If I witnessed something myself, then it's a different story. Suppose that Meyer or Paterno weren't certain. But they decide to cut ties with a good, productive coach. What is the grounds for firing them? Rumor? I don't know about Smith, but Sanduskey was revered as not only a great coach, but a humanitarian and a man to be held in high esteem. Does anyone have to approve the firing of an assistant? The board or an A.D. ? If so, in Sanduskey's case, his defenses were given most of the credit for PSU's success. He was supposed to take over in 1999. Paterson refused to retire. Maybe it was his way of distancing Sanduskey from the program.

And what if they do fire them. What does it solve? It serves to protect their reputation and that of the school. Does it protect Smith's wife? Does it stop Sanduskey from using his charity to find victims? You are the lawyer. Besides having evidence or a victim what can be done? Will police act on a rumor? Innocent until proven guilty allows for cunning criminals to run free.

 

[Debacled]

Were Joe Paterno's actions in the Sandusky scandal acceptable to you because no charges had been brought at the time it was allegedly reported to him?

You are comparing apples to peanuts here. Nothing had even been investigated in the Sandusky case as the cops hadn't been alerted to anything. There were no investigations yet.

With Smith there were investigations that were already completed and resulted in no charges.

 

[jrry32]

You are comparing apples to peanuts here. Nothing had even been investigated in the Sandusky case as the cops hadn't been alerted to anything. There were no investigations yet.

With Smith there were investigations that were already completed and resulted in no charges.

http://www.post-gazette.com/home/20...8-Sandusky-investigation/stories/201112180175

 

[Debacled]

http://www.post-gazette.com/home/20...8-Sandusky-investigation/stories/201112180175

This isn't even about the Sandusky case--but if you want to go into that we can. The reason Paterno had his legacy tainted and where he was wrong revolves around the Mike McQueary situation where he was handed information that never made its way to the police. They failed to pass information on to the right people (it was passed on, but to the wrong people who did nothing with it).

You want this so badly to be like the Sandusky case, but it isn't. Meyer isn't and wasn't in possession of information held from the authorities. What is it people wanted him to do? Fire Smith because he was investigated (mind you never charged or arrested) for an event he denied then and actually still denies now when there wasn't enough information for even the police to act on?