The McVay thread

[dieterbrock]

Was it the drive for the tying FG that we stopped them on 3rd and long, but for some reason we called a totally unnecessary TO that nullified the stop, which they then converted on their way to beating us?

I don't think that was a huge mistake by McVay in and of itself, it was kinda bad luck... but regardless I don't know what good reason that TO served.

They used all 3 time outs on San Fran last drive in order to leave time on the clock. Was 100% the right move as it would leave time on the clock if they made or missed the FG. Unfortunately, they couldnt stop Deebo on 1st down, and then the ballsy call by Shanahan to go on 4th. Had they succeeded in stopping them, the Rams would have had 35 seconds left, from their own 39 (or 46 if FG was missed). Anyone who thinks that was a bad idea just doesnt get it

 

[Ellard80]

They used all 3 time outs on San Fran last drive in order to leave time on the clock. Was 100% the right move as it would leave time on the clock if they made or missed the FG. Unfortunately, they couldnt stop Deebo on 1st down, and then the ballsy call by Shanahan to go on 4th. Had they succeeded in stopping them, the Rams would have had 35 seconds left, from their own 39 (or 46 if FG was missed). Anyone who thinks that was a bad idea just doesnt get it

right -it also had no affect on how many plays the 49ners could run, because they had all their timeouts and were running plays that took only a couple seconds to run.

 

[badnews]

They used all 3 time outs on San Fran last drive in order to leave time on the clock. Was 100% the right move as it would leave time on the clock if they made or missed the FG. Unfortunately, they couldnt stop Deebo on 1st down, and then the ballsy call by Shanahan to go on 4th. Had they succeeded in stopping them, the Rams would have had 35 seconds left, from their own 39 (or 46 if FG was missed). Anyone who thinks that was a bad idea just doesnt get it

Well why wait until they are snapping the ball to call it though?

You remember the specific play I am talking about, right?

Maybe I am crazy and have completely misinterpreted what happened on that play/series. It's possible.
I remember thinking "what the hell?!"

 

[dieterbrock]

right -it also had no affect on how many plays the 49ners could run, because they had all their timeouts and were running plays that took only a couple seconds to run.

Yup. And if Mostert was stopped a yard or two shorter, they try the FG on 4th down, or possibly even punt. Was 100% the right call

 

[Tano]

They used all 3 time outs on San Fran last drive in order to leave time on the clock. Was 100% the right move as it would leave time on the clock if they made or missed the FG. Unfortunately, they couldnt stop Deebo on 1st down, and then the ballsy call by Shanahan to go on 4th. Had they succeeded in stopping them, the Rams would have had 35 seconds left, from their own 39 (or 46 if FG was missed). Anyone who thinks that was a bad idea just doesnt get it

I get it but the way Deebo was killing us on the last two drives I probably would have let the time run down and hope they had to kick a long field goal instead of giving them time to get to the 28 yard line with 4 secs left.

Just my instinct on that series. I sometimes go by my gut feelings on situations like this and that's why I felt it was the wrong move by McVay on his part. I know what he was trying to do but I just didn't have the same feeling in my gut. But again, I am not a coach, and am just going by my own personal feeling.

 

[dieterbrock]

Well why wait until they are snapping the ball to call it though?

You remember the specific play I am talking about, right?

Maybe I am crazy and have completely misinterpreted what happened on that play/series. It's possible.
I remember thinking "what the hell?!"

I honestly dont know which play you are talking about. I know they called a late review of Jusycek fumble on the tying drive, which was total luck on the 49ers part, ball bounces right and the Rams recover- game over. Instead, ball goes OB

 

[Tano]

there was 40 secs left when we called the timeout... it takes about 2-3 secs to run short run plays or short pass plays. One play in 12 secs with all their timeouts? uhh noo. at least 2 maybe even 3 plays with all their timeouts.

the 49ners didnt care if the clock ran because they could stop it as they had all their timeouts. They wanted the clock to run to under 20 seconds at least... maybe more - that way there would be no time left when they kicked a FG. After they got the 4th down conversion they could do that anyway.

Mcvay calling timeouts had Zero impact on their FG.

They would have had to use their time out after the 3rd down play with 20 secs left. Then use a time out on the 4th down play.

That gives them 12 secs left with 1 time out.

I think they would have only tried one more play in that situation.

 

[dieterbrock]

I get it but the way Deebo was killing us on the last two drives I probably would have let the time run down and hope they had to kick a long field goal instead of giving them time to get to the 28 yard line with 4 secs left.

Just my instinct on that series. I sometimes go by my gut feelings on situations like this and that's why I felt it was the wrong move by McVay on his part. I know what he was trying to do but I just didn't have the same feeling in my gut. But again, I am not a coach, and am just going by my own personal feeling.

If McVay knew they were going to make a 1st down, he wouldnt have call the timeouts either....
I can say with 100% certainty that if San Fran attempted the FG from the 40, with only a few seconds left and the Rams with a full compliment of time outs, McVay would have been blasted for letting that happen. Deservedly so.

 

[Ellard80]

They would have had to use their time out after the 3rd down play with 20 secs left. Then use a time out on the 4th down play.

That gives them 12 secs left with 1 time out.

I think they would have only tried one more play in that situation.

right i get ya.. but we also don't know when they would have called their time outs had mcvay not called them.

Going from what you are saying they got 4 yards closer- because mostert run.

But what the exact pattern would have been is hard to say - im just saying in the end it really didn't matter. It gave us a chance to win the game if we stopped them, while maybe and thats a big maybe giving them time to get 4 yards closer.

 

[RamsVA]

I've admired McVay ever since he was an assistant TE coach here in DC. Was very happy when the Rams hired him as HC. He's had issues with time management and use of timeouts especially, but those should improve as he continues coaching. I also have no issue with Goff, other than the turnovers, since he has above average QB skills and the ability to carry this team back to the SB. I also like the way both take responsibility for their actions. I do have concerns with:

1) Holding McVay to his own standard and the key to him not keeping Wade Phillips - not adjusting his system/calls during the game. Kudos to Sean for hiring Brandon Staley because he has done a wonderful job adjusting the defense in several games this season. Everyone knows Belicheat's success stems from taking away the opposition's strength so why isn't McVay modifying his scheme more? Instead, McVay is comfortable running the same offense without attacking the opposition's weaknesses (e.g., run more against the Dolphins, get the ball out of Goff's hands quicker against the 49ers front four). If McVay had more flexibility in his schemes he could adjust them more often to attack the specific defense they are facing as well as in-game changes when circumstances dictate.

2) Creativity: I'm waiting for McVay to find his inner Sean (and I mean Payton, not McVay). With his dedication and drive, I expected McVay to toss out a couple dynamic plays each game. Instead, the Rams stay in the same formation (obviously keeps the defense on their heels when they aren't sure if a run or pass is coming) that has helped Goff and the team succeed but not dominate. I'd like to see a trick play, a different formation (e.g. wildcat), or the use of a FB on occasion to give the defense a new look to keep them on their toes.

 

[Merlin]

Coach makes it pretty clear that Goff is still very much his guy. Glad to catch no hint of any of issue in their relationship.

Yeah and once again the truth is in the middle IMO. Goff does need to get better but he is a good and conscientious player who will keep working at that. McVay prior to this game has probably been in his ass only in film and coaching side of things (not the media) but he did change his approach a bit calling it what it was there. Personally I think he's a few weeks late on that, but either way it's a good thing to see.

Now they get back to work and try to right this thing and make a strong run to close this season out. Far as I'm concerned just get in the playoffs. From there if they get Whit back and Akers is rolling watch the fuck out, this team could be the team to beat, the one who is on that hot streak going into the playoffs and sometimes you can ride that. Our defense definitely sets us up very well for playoff games IMO.

 

[Tano]

If McVay knew they were going to make a 1st down, he wouldnt have call the timeouts either....
I can say with 100% certainty that if San Fran attempted the FG from the 40, with only a few seconds left and the Rams with a full compliment of time outs, McVay would have been blasted for letting that happen. Deservedly so.

Maybe - then again - maybe some people will approve that he is trying to go into overtime knowing his defense is doing a damn good job and will give us a chance to win in OT.

 

[Tano]

right i get ya.. but we also don't know when they would have called their time outs had mcvay not called them.

Going from what you are saying they got 4 yards closer- because mostert run.

But what the exact pattern would have been is hard to say - im just saying in the end it really didn't matter. It gave us a chance to win the game if we stopped them, while maybe and thats a big maybe giving them time to get 4 yards closer.

Oh I agree - we will never know - I just know from past experiences that McVay calling time outs when the other team has the ball right before half has never worked for us for some reason and I am just going from past experiences.

It didn't work this time either.

A trend is starting to occur with these time outs

 

[Ellard80]

Oh I agree - we will never know - I just know from past experiences that McVay calling time outs when the other team has the ball right before half has never worked for us for some reason and I am just going from past experiences.

It didn't work this time either.

A trend is starting to occur with these time outs

ill agree his timeout usage has been bad - mostly because we have to blow them on delay of game issues, That needs to be corrected.\

This time however the defense didnt stop them so his plan failed to work.

 

[dieterbrock]

Maybe - then again - maybe some people will approve that he is trying to go into overtime knowing his defense is doing a damn good job and will give us a chance to win in OT.

Its not giving yourself a chance for OT by letting a guy with a 70% success rate over 50 yards kick with no time left. McVay covered all the bases, wanted time left if they made it or missed. Unfortunately he got beat by San Fran converting the 4th down. Complaining about the time outs is merely a hindsight complaint. As it was, Gould's kick would have been good from 60.
Not calling time outs there shows no confidence in your D or your offense.

 

[Tano]

Its not giving yourself a chance for OT by letting a guy with a 70% success rate over 50 yards kick with no time left. McVay covered all the bases, wanted time left if they made it or missed. Unfortunately he got beat by San Fran converting the 4th down. Complaining about the time outs is merely a hindsight complaint. As it was, Gould's kick would have been good from 60.
Not calling time outs there shows no confidence in your D or your offense.

We will have to agree to disagree on this because I personally would have taken the conservative approach on this.

 

[dieterbrock]

We will have to agree to disagree on this because I personally would have taken the conservative approach on this.

Fair enough, I dont understand how its a conservative approach in conceding a loss or best case OT, but whatevs

 

[Tano]

Fair enough, I dont understand how its a conservative approach in conceding a loss or best case OT, but whatevs

I just want to explain my reasoning behind my conservative approach.

I think a 52 yard field goal attempt which is at best what it would have been is at best a 50/50 shot with Gould.

And I think with time running down, the Rams could have held them to a 56 yard field goal.

That is beyond Gould's accuracy range imho. I could be wrong but that's my conservative approach.

let's go to OT and win it.

In similar situations with other teams, I would go for the win but Sunday against the 49ers called for a conservative approach. That is just my opinion and that is my reasoning for the conservative approach.

Disagree with me all you want. That's fine.

 

[dieterbrock]

I just want to explain my reasoning behind my conservative approach.

I think a 52 yard field goal attempt which is at best what it would have been is at best a 50/50 shot with Gould.

And I think with time running down, the Rams could have held them to a 56 yard field goal.

That is beyond Gould's accuracy range imho. I could be wrong but that's my conservative approach.

let's go to OT and win it.

In similar situations with other teams, I would go for the win but Sunday against the 49ers called for a conservative approach. That is just my opinion and that is my reasoning for the conservative approach.

Disagree with me all you want. That's fine.

I'm not disagreeing as much as I'm trying to understand your point of view. Essentially, if I understand correctly, you were resigned to the 49ers kicking a 55ish FG with like you said, a 50/50 chance of making it. 50/50 chance of losing right then
The only difference between that, and what McVay did was assure the team that the Rams would have time left after the kick, whether it was made or not.
We also will never know if Shanahan would have called timeout himself after the Deebo catch, but that's besides the point

 

[Tano]

I'm not disagreeing as much as I'm trying to understand your point of view. Essentially, if I understand correctly, you were resigned to the 49ers kicking a 55ish FG with like you said, a 50/50 chance of making it. 50/50 chance of losing right then
The only difference between that, and what McVay did was assure the team that the Rams would have time left after the kick, whether it was made or not.
We also will never know if Shanahan would have called timeout himself after the Deebo catch, but that's besides the point

Okay let's put it this way - if McVay does not call a time out, I am saying that the 49ers would have at best a 52 yard field goal.

If he does call a time out, then McVay can possibly hold them to a 58 yard field goal or allow them to kick a 45 yard field goal (which is what happened). I felt in my heart the way the game was going, that if McVay called a timeout that San Francisco would get inside the 30. I don't know why I felt that way, but that is what I was thinking at that specific point in time. Don't ask why - I don't know why I was feeling that way either. It was just something I felt in that circumstance. Game flow? Maybe. I just can't tell you why.

Have you ever had a feeling something was going to happen and then it did? This is what I was feeling Sunday.

As to Shanahan calling a time out, I had this feeling that since time was going down without a time out immediately after the play, that Shanahan was going to let the clock roll down. Again just a feeling.