The McVay thread

[dieterbrock]

Okay let's put it this way - if McVay does not call a time out, I am saying that the 49ers would have at best a 52 yard field goal.

And Gould has made 2 52 yarders this season.
All things playing out the way it did, at 4th and 1 it would have been a 56 yard fg.
You're saying that would have been worth the risk to let them kick that with no time left. Lose or go to OT. Right?

 

[Tano]

And Gould has made 2 52 yarders this season.
All things playing out the way it did, at 4th and 1 it would have been a 56 yard fg.
You're saying that would have been worth the risk to let them kick that with no time left. Lose or go to OT. Right?

I would rather risk that than give up a 45 yard attempt. You're not understanding that when McVay calls a time out, I had a strong belief that they were going to kick a 45 yard attempt with no time left instead of the 56 yard attempt. Again it was just a feeling I had.

I also don't think they would have made the 56 yard attempt. Gould's maximum range at his age is 52 - 55 yards imho.

 

[dieterbrock]

I would rather risk that than give up a 45 yard attempt. You're not understanding that when McVay calls a time out, I had a strong belief that they were going to kick a 45 yard attempt with no time left instead of the 56 yard attempt. Again it was just a feeling I had.

I also don't think they would have made the 56 yard attempt. Gould's maximum range at his age is 52 - 55 yards imho.

This is where you lose me. On one hand, you agree with McVay that the key was to stop the 49ers from making a 1st down. But on the other, the mere act of calling a time out meant they would gain a 1st down? Kind of bizarre.

Gould has a career long of 58 btw, and the game winner hit the net and would have been good from much further back.

 

[Mojo Ram]

- The Coach McVay show: Week 13 | ESPN

JB Long and D'Marco Farr are joined by Rams Head coach Sean McVay and react to the close loss to the division rival San Francisco. Coach reacts to some of the other newsworthy headlines over the weekend, as well as look ahead to their next game.

www.espn.com

Thanks for posting. Great listen as always.

 

[Tano]

This is where you lose me. On one hand, you agree with McVay that the key was to stop the 49ers from making a 1st down. But on the other, the mere act of calling a time out meant they would gain a 1st down? Kind of bizarre.

Gould has a career long of 58 btw, and the game winner hit the net and would have been good from much further back.

Again it was a feeling I had that if McVay called a time out - they would get inside the 30 whereas if he didn't call a time out, that enough time would expire that the best the 49ers could do was kick a 55 yard field goal.

And I don't care if it would have been good from 60. Kicking a field goal from 55 is night and day from kicking from 40 with different stresses on the kicker. I just believe his accuracy would have gone down by trying to kick it 55 yards. I don't think his accuracy would have been as straight. Again just an opinion. I could be wrong. But that's how I would have done it. But again - not a coach.

And as it turned out, the feeling that they would get inside the 30 with all those time outs is what actually happened.

I will go to the end of my days feeling that if McVay did not call those time outs, the best they would have gotten is a 52 to 55 yard field goal and I will take those chances versus a 40 yard field goal every day.

But this is quarterbacking from the couch and who knows what would actually have happened if McVay didn't call the timeouts. Maybe as you say, Shanahan would have called a time out and they would have gotten inside the 30 anyway. But I know I was yelling at the TV - no don't call a time out. Let it run down and have them attempt an over 50 yard field goal.

Other games with exactly the same circumstances against a different team and a different flow to the game, I may be yelling at the TV - call a time out McVay.

As stated earlier, I felt this would happen if McVay called a time out just because of a feeling I had with the type of flow to this game. Can't explain it any better than that.

 

[Rams4life]

Like my dude Dieter said, last time the Rams strung together 4 winning seasons in a row was 83-86. McVay is the guy for sure. No one is perfect and he didn't turn the ball over 4 times.

That being said, he does seem to try and force his game plan even when it isn't working. Just my opinion.

 

[Tano]

Again it was a feeling I had that if McVay called a time out - they would get inside the 30 whereas if he didn't call a time out, that enough time would expire that the best the 49ers could do was kick a 55 yard field goal.

And I don't care if it would have been good from 60. Kicking a field goal from 55 is night and day from kicking from 40 with different stresses on the kicker. I just believe his accuracy would have gone down by trying to kick it 55 yards. I don't think his accuracy would have been as straight. Again just an opinion. I could be wrong. But that's how I would have done it. But again - not a coach.

And as it turned out, the feeling that they would get inside the 30 with all those time outs is what actually happened.

I will go to the end of my days feeling that if McVay did not call those time outs, the best they would have gotten is a 52 to 55 yard field goal and I will take those chances versus a 40 yard field goal every day.

But this is quarterbacking from the couch and who knows what would actually have happened if McVay didn't call the timeouts. Maybe as you say, Shanahan would have called a time out and they would have gotten inside the 30 anyway. But I know I was yelling at the TV - no don't call a time out. Let it run down and have them attempt an over 50 yard field goal.

Other games with exactly the same circumstances against a different team and a different flow to the game, I may be yelling at the TV - call a time out McVay.

As stated earlier, I felt this would happen if McVay called a time out just because of a feeling I had with the type of flow to this game. Can't explain it any better than that.

Oh and by the way

I don't get these feelings often. Maybe once every few years or so.

Two years ago - I had a strong feeling that Dallas would upset New Orleans when New Orleans was heavily favored.

I put down Dallas to win on the pick em sheet and I told everyone - this is my upset of the year

I think the odds were 9-1 for Dallas to outright win against New Orleans.

Everyone said I was crazy.

Turns out I was right.

Again doesn't happen often.

I have not said an upset of the year since then. Not last year nor this year.

Maybe that explains my feelings better about how I felt at the end of Sunday's game.

I probably won't be saying I have feelings about a certain game or play for at least another two years.

My brother's friend after the Dallas game says if you ever have another upset feeling like that to let him know and he will place a bet on it and cover my bet as well. I said - it won't happen again for a few years at least and I think Sunday's end covers it. Oh well.

 

[badnews]

My expectations for this team this year have been about the same all the way: with McVay and this roster, we have a shot at winning some big games and if they stay mostly healthy and can get into the playoffs playing their best ball, the Rams could get another shot at the SB.

McVay and this team have lived up to those expectations or exceeded them in most ways with the exception of Goff whose issue has been inconsistency... but if he plays his best football from here on, we should control our own destiny and be the team nobody wants to see.

I can't wait to see the team this Sunday. I sense an intensity and focus we've seen from these guys before when their backs are against the wall.

McVay has made us a competitor. Every year since he came in, we have been between above average and elite.
Before McVay, above average seemed like an impossible wet dream.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Again it was a feeling I had that if McVay called a time out - they would get inside the 30 whereas if he didn't call a time out, that enough time would expire that the best the 49ers could do was kick a 55 yard field goal.

And I don't care if it would have been good from 60. Kicking a field goal from 55 is night and day from kicking from 40 with different stresses on the kicker. I just believe his accuracy would have gone down by trying to kick it 55 yards. I don't think his accuracy would have been as straight. Again just an opinion. I could be wrong. But that's how I would have done it. But again - not a coach.

And as it turned out, the feeling that they would get inside the 30 with all those time outs is what actually happened.

I will go to the end of my days feeling that if McVay did not call those time outs, the best they would have gotten is a 52 to 55 yard field goal and I will take those chances versus a 40 yard field goal every day.

But this is quarterbacking from the couch and who knows what would actually have happened if McVay didn't call the timeouts. Maybe as you say, Shanahan would have called a time out and they would have gotten inside the 30 anyway. But I know I was yelling at the TV - no don't call a time out. Let it run down and have them attempt an over 50 yard field goal.

Other games with exactly the same circumstances against a different team and a different flow to the game, I may be yelling at the TV - call a time out McVay.

As stated earlier, I felt this would happen if McVay called a time out just because of a feeling I had with the type of flow to this game. Can't explain it any better than that.

I really have no idea what you're talking about.

Mcvay called the first timeout with 45 secs left on the clock. The whiners still had all their timeouts. They were in complete control of the clock. Mcvay taking those timeouts was his attempt to win the game. Otherwise he would have stood there and watched the whiners bleed the clock how they wanted to.

I can't get why people think he did the wrong thing. Mcvay is trying to win, not stand there and accept defeat.

.

 

[badnews]

I rewatched the end of the game and I am embarrassed and a little concerned: I remembered something that never happened. At all. And it was my biggest gripe about the time outs. Like I still remember it well, but it didn't happen. Nothing even close to it happened. I am not joking, it's like that Berenstain Bears affect or something. Or senility at 40.
My heads a mess, that's not new, but vivid memories of football plays that never happened? That's new.

I feel like I owe an apology to McVay too. I never should have doubted ya Coach, but in whatever realm I was tripping to on Sunday, you really blew it big time.....

 

[jrry32]

I would rather risk that than give up a 45 yard attempt. You're not understanding that when McVay calls a time out, I had a strong belief that they were going to kick a 45 yard attempt with no time left instead of the 56 yard attempt. Again it was just a feeling I had.

I also don't think they would have made the 56 yard attempt. Gould's maximum range at his age is 52 - 55 yards imho.

This doesn't make sense. McVay called timeouts so we could get the ball back. We stopped them on 3rd down. Most coaches don't have the balls to go for it on 4th down there. If Shanny kicks the long FG, we have time to get the ball back if they make it and time to win it if they don't. If we stop them on 4th down, we have time to win the game. What we couldn't do is give up the first down. But that's what happened. McVay played to win. I respect that.

 

[Tano]

I really have no idea what you're talking about.

Mcvay called the first timeout with 45 secs left on the clock. The whiners still had all their timeouts. They were in complete control of the clock. Mcvay taking those timeouts was his attempt to win the game. Otherwise he would have stood there and watched the whiners bleed the clock how they wanted to.

I can't get why people think he did the wrong thing. Mcvay is trying to win, not stand there and accept defeat.

.

I can't really explain it any better than I have. it was just a feeling that I had that McVay calling time outs in that specific situation would come back to bite them in the butt. And it did.

Maybe if he didn't call time outs it would have still come back to bite him in the butt but we will never know.

He felt that our defense would hold. I didn't have that same feeling. Not right then when Deebo was killing us.

My scenario and I could be completely wrong:

McVay doesn't call time out.

Shanahan lets the clock run down to the 25 or 30 second mark before snapping it and they get the same yardage down to the 40 with about 15 to 20 seconds left.

4th and 1 - two time outs left

Run for a first down to the 39. - One time out left with about 10 to 12 seconds left.

Time for one more play.

Maybe get to the 35 and time out.

52 yard field goal.

Better odds that Gould would miss a 52 yard field goal versus a 45 yard field goal. And in this scenario I am not so sure that they get to the 35 yard line. They may try a longer throw that the Rams could intercept or at the worst incomplete and then they had to do a 56 yard field goal.

Whereas my scenario that did occur if McVay calls a time out would get SF inside the 30. Again just a specific feeling I had at the 45 second mark when McVay called that time out.

It was just a feeling I had. I would not have called a time out and given SF more time on the clock to do the things that they eventually did.

I can't explain it any better than that. This is my last post.

But to sum up - I still think McVay is awesome and although I question his calls from time to time, I hope we keep him for his lifetime.

 

[Ellard80]

I can't really explain it any better than I have. it was just a feeling that I had that McVay calling time outs in that specific situation would come back to bite them in the butt. And it did.

Maybe if he didn't call time outs it would have still come back to bite him in the butt but we will never know.

He felt that our defense would hold. I didn't have that same feeling. Not right then when Deebo was killing us.

My scenario and I could be completely wrong:

McVay doesn't call time out.

Shanahan lets the clock run down to the 25 or 30 second mark before snapping it and they get the same yardage down to the 40 with about 15 to 20 seconds left.

4th and 1 - two time outs left

Run for a first down to the 39. - One time out left with about 10 to 12 seconds left.

Time for one more play.

Maybe get to the 35 and time out.

52 yard field goal.

Better odds that Gould would miss a 52 yard field goal versus a 45 yard field goal. And in this scenario I am not so sure that they get to the 35 yard line. They may try a longer throw that the Rams could intercept or at the worst incomplete and then they had to do a 56 yard field goal.

Whereas my scenario that did occur if McVay calls a time out would get SF inside the 30. Again just a specific feeling I had at the 45 second mark when McVay called that time out.

It was just a feeling I had. I would not have called a time out and given SF more time on the clock to do the things that they eventually did.

I can't explain it any better than that. This is my last post.

But to sum up - I still think McVay is awesome and although I question his calls from time to time, I hope we keep him for his lifetime.

yeah we dont really know how much time would have been left had mcvay not called his timeouts. They had all their timeouts and the ball was at the 48 year line with 1:10 secs left. My feeling is that they had complete control of the time and that mcvays only option was to try to extend the time and hope they stopped them. If they didnt stop them - which they didn't the 49ners had all their timeouts and thus could control the outcome.

its impossible to know how much they would have let the clock run - but if shanny is the genius everyone thinks he is there is no way they fuck up the time management. your conclusion that they would have had a longer FG without mcvay using timeouts is debatable - as you admit.

 

[dieterbrock]

 

[FrantikRam]

An easier way to say it is this: the Niners clearly werent in a rush because they weren't using their own timeouts. Us calling timeout allowed them to run more plays and/or run the ball, when we wanted them to pass and run out of time.

They also weren't yet in FG range when McVay started calling timeouts, which is the main reason I hated the move.

 

[Ellard80]

An easier way to say it is this: the Niners clearly werent in a rush because they weren't using their own timeouts. Us calling timeout allowed them to run more plays and/or run the ball, when we wanted them to pass and run out of time.

They also weren't yet in FG range when McVay started calling timeouts, which is the main reason I hated the move.

they werent in a rush because they had all their timeouts -also once we called that 1st timeout they saw we were going to call them.

Us calling the timeouts and them running more plays because of it is inconlusive because we dont know when they would have started calling them and how much time would have been left.

People really think they were going to let the clock run out and kick a 57 yeard fg with 3 timeouts left? cmon no way.

 

[jrry32]

An easier way to say it is this: the Niners clearly werent in a rush because they weren't using their own timeouts. Us calling timeout allowed them to run more plays and/or run the ball, when we wanted them to pass and run out of time.

They also weren't yet in FG range when McVay started calling timeouts, which is the main reason I hated the move.

Yes, they were. He called his first timeout before 2nd and 3 at our 41.

I can't really explain it any better than I have. it was just a feeling that I had that McVay calling time outs in that specific situation would come back to bite them in the butt. And it did.

Maybe if he didn't call time outs it would have still come back to bite him in the butt but we will never know.

He felt that our defense would hold. I didn't have that same feeling. Not right then when Deebo was killing us.

My scenario and I could be completely wrong:

McVay doesn't call time out.

Shanahan lets the clock run down to the 25 or 30 second mark before snapping it and they get the same yardage down to the 40 with about 15 to 20 seconds left.

4th and 1 - two time outs left

Run for a first down to the 39. - One time out left with about 10 to 12 seconds left.

Time for one more play.

Maybe get to the 35 and time out.

52 yard field goal.

Better odds that Gould would miss a 52 yard field goal versus a 45 yard field goal. And in this scenario I am not so sure that they get to the 35 yard line. They may try a longer throw that the Rams could intercept or at the worst incomplete and then they had to do a 56 yard field goal.

Whereas my scenario that did occur if McVay calls a time out would get SF inside the 30. Again just a specific feeling I had at the 45 second mark when McVay called that time out.

It was just a feeling I had. I would not have called a time out and given SF more time on the clock to do the things that they eventually did.

I can't explain it any better than that. This is my last post.

But to sum up - I still think McVay is awesome and although I question his calls from time to time, I hope we keep him for his lifetime.

McVay called a TO before 2nd and 3 at our 41. If he doesn't do that, Shanny has a completely different game plan. Once we started calling TOs, they were playing for a 1st down. Prior to that, they were playing for a FG. He wasn't going to keep running the ball if we weren't using our TOs. They would have kept nickel and diming us with the passing game.

 

[-X-]

 

[SteezyEndo]

Is it against the rules now in the nfl to ice the kicker? Because I am looking if it is and I don’t see anything saying that it is. Can someone shed light on this?

 

[NoCoNite]

Goff sucks and McVay doesn't.
Copy. You've been heard loud and clear.

I just want to point out something different for the rest of us who can manage to point our frustration in more than one direction at a time.
You don't have to convince me that Goff was bad yesterday. I know. I watched.
You will have to literally change my mind to convince me that McVay was a bright spot yesterday. He wasn't. Hes lost 5 straight to them. Thats not good enough, is it?

Funny that you use McVays not running the ball at the end as an "aha" but seem to contradict yourself since you thought Goff was terrible, why is McVay trying to let him win the ball with his arm?
See how that works?
I was pounding the table for McVay to use Akers. I was pounding the table to stop running outside zone with Henderson. And I wasn't wrong. Akers made a huge difference. Why not try our top rookie sooner, when the game was getting away from us?
Yeah, the run game was a problem, until they went to Akers. Too little too late. And gaining yards there was less important than leaving Mullens with as little time as possible. But nah, McVay is perfectly fine, nothing for him to change or do better, just Goff, having too much sex and money and pizza and video games... the slacker!

To be fair, there’s a few crucial throws that if Goff made we won that game. McVay might of been out coached. Seems like the 9ers have his number.
We were in plenty of positions to win that game.

I’d rather the 9ers not have a higher draft pick anyways. This team might terrorize us for years to come.