The McVay thread

[Young Ram]

So you agree that calling the timeouts was the right move? I guess i was confused by some of what you had said.

Yes it was the right move but what wasn’t the right move was waiting 25 seconds before calling his first timeout. Go back and look at the play. Deebo is stopped at the 41 with 1:10 remaining. McVay wastes 25 seconds before calling his first timeout with :45 remaining. He should have called timeout immediately after that play and would have given us more time to try for a field goal if say SF makes the long Fg try or they punt.

 

[Ellard80]

Yes it was the right move but what wasn’t the right move was waiting 25 seconds before calling his first timeout. Go back and look at the play. Deebo is stopped at the 41 with 1:10 remaining. McVay wastes 25 seconds before calling his first timeout with :45 remaining. He should have called timeout immediately after that play and would have given us more time to try for a field goal if say SF makes the long Fg try or they punt.

ahh okay... yeah I agree with you a bit on that. I'm guessing that mcvay was expecting shanny to call a timeout, but then he notices that shanny is melting the clock.

I agree though he should have made the decision quicker - but im guessing at that point he was on the fence.

 

[Tano]

ahh okay... yeah I agree with you a bit on that. I'm guessing that mcvay was expecting shanny to call a timeout, but then he notices that shanny is melting the clock.

I agree though he should have made the decision quicker - but im guessing at that point he was on the fence.

That's another reason why I feel he shouldn't have called the time out.

He took too long.

If he called it right away then I would have been okay with the time out.

I just felt let Shanny run the clock down if he wants and he will have less time to get additional yardage.

 

[jrry32]

No, that doesn’t make any sense. SF had all their time outs. They were at the rams 41 yard line. There was no reason for Shanny to call a timeout. His only strategy was to play for the field goal. Time wasn’t of the essence to them. All they needed was 5-10 yards and with all time outs they didn’t need to hurry. McVay had no reason to not call a timeout immediately after that play. Yes it didn’t matter in the end anyway but it could have and if they make that stop and force a punt or a long fg attempt those 25 seconds would have been huge.

It makes perfect sense. First, if you use your TOs too early, you give SF opportunity to gain more ground if your defense doesn't stop them. Second, McVay was trying to figure out SF's strategy. At first, they were acting as if they were going to hurry up. Letting them hurry up and attempt a pass benefits us if it's incomplete. But once it became clear they were going to slow things down, he called a TO. I am guessing to further develop a plan for how we wanted to play them. McVay has to weigh competing considerations. On one hand, he wants the ball back. On the other hand, if we can't make a stop, he wants SF to attempt as long of a FG as possible. I'm not saying he's perfect, but what he did there did make sense.

41 isn't FG range for Gould. And I'd have preferred them to keep passing over running the ball for 2 yards a pop.

41 is FG range for Gould. It's the uppermost limits of his range, but if the clock was at 1 second, you better bet SF would have attempted a FG with him from there.

 

[Young Ram]

It makes perfect sense. First, if you use your TOs too early, you give SF opportunity to gain more ground if your defense doesn't stop them. Second, McVay was trying to figure out SF's strategy. At first, they were acting as if they were going to hurry up. Letting them hurry up and attempt a pass benefits us if it's incomplete. But once it became clear they were going to slow things down, he called a TO. I am guessing to further develop a plan for how we wanted to play them. McVay has to weigh competing considerations. On one hand, he wants the ball back. On the other hand, if we can't make a stop, he wants SF to attempt as long of a FG as possible. I'm not saying he's perfect, but what he did there did make sense.

I mean, I see where you’re coming from but if that was the case then he shouldn’t have called timeout at all. If he was trying to run the clock down to give SF less time to gain yardage and to attempt a long fg his timeout makes no sense. Once he realized that SF had no need to stop the clock he panicked and called the timeout, wasting 25 precious seconds that would have been huge for us if we were to stop them and get the ball back.

It was a brain fart on McVay and this isn’t the only time he has had clock management problems.

 

[jrry32]

I mean, I see where you’re coming from but if that was the case then he shouldn’t have called timeout at all. If he was trying to run the clock down to give SF less time to gain yardage and to attempt a long fg his timeout makes no sense. Once he realized that SF had no need to stop the clock he panicked and called the timeout, wasting 25 precious seconds that would have been huge for us if we were to stop them and get the ball back.

It was a brain fart on McVay and this isn’t the only time he has had clock management problems.

He was trying to balance competing considerations, as I just said.

 

[Merlin]

This is kind of funny... so first you guys are criticizing mcvay for calling timeouts - now you are criticizing him for not calling timeouts soon enough lol?

The reason he didn't call the timeouts until then was because he was doing exactly what you guys wanted - he was hoping the rams would slow them down or stop them while the clock ran out.

But once the 49ners got to our 41 yard line with 3 timeouts left - that was unlikely, all they needed was a few short gains. So at that point mcvay was hoping that at a minimum we could hold them to a long FG attempt (like you wanted) and have time to get the ball back.

However we couldn't stop them so it didn't matter either way.

Coaches and coordinators make decisions in real time. I think that's the rub here. It's easy to sit back and nitpick approach and point out all the things he needs to learn as a young coach (which is accurate) but is it an issue going forward? I don't think so.

Line up the head coaches in terms of gameday decisions and there isn't anyone other than Belichick who is clearly a cut above McVay. Well maybe Reid too, but he was known for the same kind of shit earlier in his career as well it's part of their progression.

 

[badnews]

Yeah there's a big difference between discussing McVays decisions and suggesting McVay is a problem.

I don't believe anyone here isn't grateful for having him. I think we all believe in him.

 

[So Ram]

Coaches and coordinators make decisions in real time. I think that's the rub here. It's easy to sit back and nitpick approach and point out all the things he needs to learn as a young coach (which is accurate) but is it an issue going forward? I don't think so.

Line up the head coaches in terms of gameday decisions and there isn't anyone other than Belichick who is clearly a cut above McVay. Well maybe Reid too, but he was known for the same kind of shit earlier in his career as well it's part of their progression.

Shanahan Is now 4-0 in the last two seasons against Mcvay

I do agree that Mcvay is a top of the list HC. If you look at his record when he is ahead at halftime. His record with The Rams is just about perfect.
Very impressive.

I was thinking I’d rather have lost to the 9ers than Arizona this week if I had a choice.This is going to be a big game coming up.

 

[Young Ram]

He was trying to balance competing considerations, as I just said.

Which again is bad clock management. Those considerations should happen BEFORE the play, not after the play and in the heat of the moment.

 

[Young Ram]

I also want to make it clear that, while I'm criticizing McVay for his occasional brain farts, he is an outstanding football coach and I'm glad we have him.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yes it was the right move but what wasn’t the right move was waiting 25 seconds before calling his first timeout. Go back and look at the play. Deebo is stopped at the 41 with 1:10 remaining. McVay wastes 25 seconds before calling his first timeout with :45 remaining. He should have called timeout immediately after that play and would have given us more time to try for a field goal if say SF makes the long Fg try or they punt.

How many seconds were left on the play clock at that point? I dont recall 25 seconds ticking off between the end of the Deebo play and the time out

 

[Young Ram]

How many seconds were left on the play clock at that point? I dont recall 25 seconds ticking off between the end of the Deebo play and the time out

Whistles blow. Play ends at 1:10.

Next play at :45

 

[dieterbrock]

Whistles blow. Play ends at 1:10.


Next play at :45

Interesting, sure didnt feel that way watching. Suppose its possible they were willing to let the play run but didnt like how San Fran was set up

 

[jrry32]

Which again is bad clock management. Those considerations should happen BEFORE the play, not after the play and in the heat of the moment.

Those considerations are happening at every moment during the final two minutes. They don't suddenly go away. I've explained why multiple times.

 

[jrry32]

Interesting, sure didnt feel that way watching. Suppose its possible they were willing to let the play run but didnt like how San Fran was set up

They acted like they were going to hurry up and then huddled. When they broke the huddle and lined up, McVay called a TO. It was almost certainly because we were set up to stop the pass, and they were indicating they were going to run it to get the first down and run clock.

 

[dieterbrock]

They acted like they were going to hurry up and then huddled. When they broke the huddle and lined up, McVay called a TO. It was almost certainly because we were set up to stop the pass, and they were indicating they were going to run it to get the first down and run clock.

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation. I was watching on redzone so my recall isnt vivid. Now dang it that they couldnt stop the 4th down play....

 

[Young Ram]

Those considerations are happening at every moment during the final two minutes. They don't suddenly go away. I've explained why multiple times.

Never did I say they would go away. OK let's look at those considerations.

Niners have the ball at the Rams 48 yard line, 1st and 10, 1:44 on the clock and counting. Niners need at least 8 yards for Gould's longest range FG made. At this point McVay's only considerations should be to to play for OT or to use his timeouts to get the ball back with time on the clock.

The only way I see him consider playing for OT and not using his timeouts is if the niners gain less than 5 yards on that play. Niners get 7 yards and are in field goal range.

The only consideration left is to use timeouts to conserve clock because the niners are in FG range. There is nothing else to consider at this point. Saying that McVay was considering running the clock down to give Niners less time to get yardage is absurd. They are already in FG range with all timeouts left. Their only play is to run down the clock and try to get maybe a few more yards for a closer FG try which they could have with full timeouts.

They acted like they were going to hurry up and then huddled. When they broke the huddle and lined up, McVay called a TO.

This is false. They never hurried up or acted like it. They huddled and broke the huddle at 22 seconds left on the play clock. Mcvay took the timeout at 15 seconds left on the play clock.

It was almost certainly because we were set up to stop the pass, and they were indicating they were going to run it to get the first down and run clock.

This is also false. Niners were 3 wide in shotgun formation. Typically not a running formation.

 

[jrry32]

Never did I say they would go away. OK let's look at those considerations.

Niners have the ball at the Rams 48 yard line, 1st and 10, 1:44 on the clock and counting. Niners need at least 8 yards for Gould's longest range FG made. At this point McVay's only considerations should be to to play for OT or to use his timeouts to get the ball back with time on the clock.

The only way I see him consider playing for OT and not using his timeouts is if the niners gain less than 5 yards on that play. Niners get 7 yards and are in field goal range.

The only consideration left is to use timeouts to conserve clock because the niners are in FG range. There is nothing else to consider at this point. Saying that McVay was considering running the clock down to give Niners less time to get yardage is absurd. They are already in FG range with all timeouts left. Their only play is to run down the clock and try to get maybe a few more yards for a closer FG try which they could have with full timeouts.

Wrong. You are balancing trying to get back the ball with forcing SF to take as long as possible of a FG. You need a stop, but if you don't get one, you need enough time to run off the clock that they have to settle for a 50ish yard FG.

This is false. They never hurried up or acted like it. They huddled and broke the huddle at 22 seconds left on the play clock. Mcvay took the timeout at 15 seconds left on the play clock.

It's not remotely false. They started to hustle to the LOS before the HC and QB pulled them back and had them huddle.

This is also false. Niners were 3 wide in shotgun formation. Typically not a running formation.

No, it's not false. The 49ers run out of the shotgun plenty. Look at the box. They have six or seven blockers for six defenders. Guarantee you if they didn't have a run called, they would have checked into one.

 

[Young Ram]

Wrong. You are balancing trying to get back the ball with forcing SF to take as long as possible of a FG. You need a stop, but if you don't get one, you need enough time to run off the clock that they have to settle for a 50ish yard FG.

You're grasping at straws. Originally in this thread you said that McVay did the right thing by calling TOs for a chance to get the ball back and go for the win. @dieterbrock argued the same thing. When I pointed out that McVay wasted 25 seconds, you back tracked and said that he was considering running the clock down to give SF less time to gain yardage and to try for a long FG. The problem with this logic is that by running down the clock, McVay strips away any chance he has at getting the ball back if the niners make that long FG. Idk about you but I would not let the game come down to a long FG attempt with no chance at getting the ball back.

It's not remotely false. They started to hustle to the LOS before the HC and QB pulled them back and had them huddle.

Mullens called for huddle Immediately after the play was over. Evidence.

No, it's not false. The 49ers run out of the shotgun plenty. Look at the box. They have six or seven blockers for six defenders. Guarantee you if they didn't have a run called, they would have checked into one.

The defense was in the same formation before and after the timeout which makes your statement false. More evidence.

Before

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