The McVay thread

[jrry32]

You're grasping at straws. Originally in this thread you said that McVay did the right thing by calling TOs for a chance to get the ball back and go for the win. @dieterbrock argued the same thing. When I pointed out that McVay wasted 25 seconds, you back tracked and said that he was considering running the clock down to give SF less time to gain yardage and to try for a long FG. The problem with this logic is that by running down the clock, McVay strips away any chance he has at getting the ball back if the niners make that long FG. Idk about you but I would not let the game come down to a long FG attempt with no chance at getting the ball back.

If you still don't get it after how many times I've explained it, I don't know what more to say. I never backtracked. I explained why McVay used the TOs to the people who thought he helped the Whiners. And I explained why he didn't immediately use the TOs to you. There's an explanation for it--a rational one, in fact. You might not agree, but I told you what it is quite clearly. McVay did not strip away his chance to get the ball back. Failing to stop them on 4th down did. Had we stopped them, we would have had 25+ seconds. That's enough to get into FG range.

Mullens called for huddle Immediately after the play was over. Evidence.

Because his guys were hurrying to get lined up. The play ended at 1:10, as you already told us. They started to hurry to the line. Mullens looked to the sideline and pulled them back to the huddle, as I just told you.

The defense was in the same formation before and after the timeout which makes your statement false. More evidence.

Before

After

Check the personnel, pal. After the TO, we changed out our personnel to bring in the better run defenders. Ebukam and Brockers went to the bench for Hollins and A'Shawn Robinson. McVay wanted to be prepared for them to run the ball.

 

[Ellard80]

mcvay has wasted timeouts because of delay of game issues - the the thought that he consistently has issues with end of half or end of game time managment. I dont remember any situations like that.

 

[Young Ram]

If you still don't get it after how many times I've explained it, I don't know what more to say. I never backtracked. I explained why McVay used the TOs to the people who thought he helped the Whiners. And I explained why he didn't immediately use the TOs to you. There's an explanation for it--a rational one, in fact. You might not agree, but I told you what it is quite clearly. McVay did not strip away his chance to get the ball back. Failing to stop them on 4th down did. Had we stopped them, we would have had 25+ seconds. That's enough to get into FG range.

Ok we’ll stop here. Agree to disagree.

Because his guys were hurrying to get lined up. The play ended at 1:10, as you already told us. They started to hurry to the line. Mullens looked to the sideline and pulled them back to the huddle, as I just told you.

They didn’t but I guess the evidence isn’t enough for you. Rewatch the play if you’d like.

Check the personnel, pal. After the TO, we changed out our personnel to bring in the better run defenders. Ebukam and Brockers went to the bench for Hollins and A'Shawn Robinson. McVay wanted to be prepared for them to run the ball.

Thanks for pointing out the personnel. I didn’t catch that and you’re right they did change it for run D.

 

[jrry32]

They didn’t but I guess the evidence isn’t enough for you. Rewatch the play if you’d like.

I have, multiple times.

 

[Faceplant]

Oh and by the way

I don't get these feelings often. Maybe once every few years or so.

Two years ago - I had a strong feeling that Dallas would upset New Orleans when New Orleans was heavily favored.

I put down Dallas to win on the pick em sheet and I told everyone - this is my upset of the year

I think the odds were 9-1 for Dallas to outright win against New Orleans.

Everyone said I was crazy.

Turns out I was right.

Again doesn't happen often.

I have not said an upset of the year since then. Not last year nor this year.

Maybe that explains my feelings better about how I felt at the end of Sunday's game.

I probably won't be saying I have feelings about a certain game or play for at least another two years.

My brother's friend after the Dallas game says if you ever have another upset feeling like that to let him know and he will place a bet on it and cover my bet as well. I said - it won't happen again for a few years at least and I think Sunday's end covers it. Oh well.

So should we petition for McVay to keep a red phone on the sideline for the next one of your "feelings"?? Lol, sorry man, but you have been going on for a while about these feelings of yours. We all get those btw. I promise.

 

[FrantikRam]

It makes perfect sense. First, if you use your TOs too early, you give SF opportunity to gain more ground if your defense doesn't stop them. Second, McVay was trying to figure out SF's strategy. At first, they were acting as if they were going to hurry up. Letting them hurry up and attempt a pass benefits us if it's incomplete. But once it became clear they were going to slow things down, he called a TO. I am guessing to further develop a plan for how we wanted to play them. McVay has to weigh competing considerations. On one hand, he wants the ball back. On the other hand, if we can't make a stop, he wants SF to attempt as long of a FG as possible. I'm not saying he's perfect, but what he did there did make sense.



41 is FG range for Gould. It's the uppermost limits of his range, but if the clock was at 1 second, you better bet SF would have attempted a FG with him from there.

Going back to 2016, he made one 54 yarder - that's his long. He's 3-9 from 50+ the last two years. I don't think that the 41 constitutes FG range for him. Would they try it with one second? Sure.

Us calling timeouts just gave them extra running plays, which is ultimately why they got into FG range and won.

 

[jrry32]

Going back to 2016, he made one 54 yarder - that's his long. He's 3-9 from 50+ the last two years. I don't think that the 41 constitutes FG range for him. Would they try it with one second? Sure.

Us calling timeouts just gave them extra running plays, which is ultimately why they got into FG range and won.

He made a 58 yard FG in 2013. He still has enough leg to make it. It's far from guaranteed he could, but the fact of the matter is that our 41 is within his range. They were at a point where they could move methodically, spend their timeouts, and set up the GW FG. McVay made the right call using our TOs. Many HCs wouldn't have the balls to go for that 4th down. And frankly, we were a stop or flag away from getting the ball back. Williams could have been called for a hold for tackling Brockers. And we came very close to stuffing the SF FB.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Whistles blow. Play ends at 1:10.

Next play at :45

Your argument is my argument. If the decision is to play for time, you do it. I was frazzled watching it...but not frazzled enough to yell at my tv..."Wtf are you waiting for?!"

It was a mistake.

 

[dieterbrock]

Your argument is my argument. If the decision is to play for time, you do it. I was frazzled watching it...but not frazzled enough to yell at my tv..."Wtf are you waiting for?!"

It was a mistake.

If the 49ers didnt convert the 4th down, there'd have been 35 seconds left, which was plenty of time.
And now I know you're just entering the discussion regarding the time out usage, but I find it comical that for 3 days and 4 or 5 pages worth of debate over McVay's use of timeouts and whether it was somehow beneficial to the 49ers. And now its going to be a debate on whether he called time out fast enough? I'd have to see the play in real time, I was watching on redzone, honestly never thought for a second how much time was spent between Deebo tackled and the time out being called. @jrry32 explanation that San Fran appeared to be in a passing formation and it wasnt until after they showed run that Rams called TO makes a lot of sense. But my recollection was that Ramsey got blocked from behind on the Deebo play and was pissed they werent flagged.
Would love to see the sequence in real time
So I guess we can put the debate to rest on whether he should have called time out, seems that is agreed on

 

[Tano]

So should we petition for McVay to keep a red phone on the sideline for the next one of your "feelings"?? Lol, sorry man, but you have been going on for a while about these feelings of yours. We all get those btw. I promise.

I was just explaining that it was this game only that I had these feelings and why I disagreed with McVays time out. That is going overboard with the red phone comment because I specifically stated this rarely happens maybe once every two years or so. And usually never during a game.

I could tell you about 3 times that I specifically had this feeling about a team. Is it foreseeing? Hell no. Just based on past experiences and how I get that feeling this has happened before and is about to happen again.

I was just trying to explain to Dieter why I was so against McVay's time out. It was just a feeling I had. He couldn't understand why I was so against it. I probably won't have a feeling like this ever again during a game.

 

[Ellard80]

If the 49ers didnt convert the 4th down, there'd have been 35 seconds left, which was plenty of time.
And now I know you're just entering the discussion regarding the time out usage, but I find it comical that for 3 days and 4 or 5 pages worth of debate over McVay's use of timeouts and whether it was somehow beneficial to the 49ers. And now its going to be a debate on whether he called time out fast enough? I'd have to see the play in real time, I was watching on redzone, honestly never thought for a second how much time was spent between Deebo tackled and the time out being called. @jrry32 explanation that San Fran appeared to be in a passing formation and it wasnt until after they showed run that Rams called TO makes a lot of sense. But my recollection was that Ramsey got blocked from behind on the Deebo play and was pissed they werent flagged.
Would love to see the sequence in real time
So I guess we can put the debate to rest on whether he should have called time out, seems that is agreed on

yeah lol... first mcvay was dumb for calling timeouts - but now the argument has completley changed to he was dumb for not calling them fast enough.... smh

I'm not trying to be smug - but it was never clear cut as things unfolded when he should call a timeout. They were almost in scoring range, but not quite, there wasn't a lot of time left... but there was still over a minute. So the entire "when he should call a timeout or if he should not" was really debatable as it was a "tweener," moment. And in the end it had no real bearing on the outcome - or well no way we could actually ever know if it would have, as we don't know when the 49ners would have used their timeouts.

but after they got to the 40 yard line my distinct feeling was we either call timeouts or they melt the time completly off - and thats what mcvay seemed to think also. It made sense to me... and I never really thought about doing it until pretty close to the same time mcvay did.

I also am somewhat of a clock managment snob and think most coaches are clueless at it.

 

[Tano]

yeah lol... first mcvay was dumb for calling timeouts - but now the argument has completley changed to he was dumb for not calling them fast enough.... smh

I'm not trying to be smug - but it was never clear cut as things unfolded when he should call a timeout. They were almost in scoring range, but not quite, there wasn't a lot of time left... but there was still over a minute. So the entire "when he should call a timeout or if he should not" was really debatable as it was a "tweener," moment. And in the end it had no real bearing on the outcome - or well no way we could actually ever know if it would have, as we don't know when the 49ners would have used their timeouts.

but after they got to the 40 yard line my distinct feeling was we either call timeouts or they melt the time completly off - and thats what mcvay seemed to think also. It made sense to me... and I never really thought about doing it until pretty close to the same time mcvay did.

I also am somewhat of a clock managment snob and think most coaches are clueless at it.

Our point is if he doesn't take a time out with 1:10 left then he shouldn't take it 25 seconds later. But if he was doing it because he had the wrong defense, then I am all for him taking the time out.

It was just weird seeing him take a time out 25 seconds after the play was over.

 

[dieterbrock]

Our point is if he doesn't take a time out with 1:10 left then he shouldn't take it 25 seconds later. But if he was doing it because he had the wrong defense, then I am all for him taking the time out.

It was just weird seeing him take a time out 25 seconds after the play was over.

You are changing your take? I thought you "had a feeling" if he called time out, the 49ers would win the game? When did that change?

 

[Tano]

You are changing your take? I thought you "had a feeling" if he called time out, the 49ers would win the game? When did that change?

You aren't understanding me. I was saying noooooo to the time out based on my feeling it would go bad but if he had to take it and give SF more time because he had the wrong defense in, well he better take it and hope for the best.

Unfortunately the hope didn't work

 

[Ellard80]

You are changing your take? I thought you "had a feeling" if he called time out, the 49ers would win the game? When did that change?

You aren't understanding me. I was saying noooooo to the time out based on my feeling it would go bad but if he had to take it and give SF more time because he had the wrong defense in, well he better take it and hope for the best.

Unfortunately the hope didn't work

In the beginning of this thread you didn't like that he took timeouts - now when young ram interjected that he took them too late you went with that....

Not trying to be a dick but that's what i see also

 

[Tano]

In the beginning of this thread you didn't like that he took timeouts - now when young ram interjected that he took them too late you went with that....

Not trying to be a dick but that's what i see also

I probably should have stated at the very beginning that I didn't like his timeouts after waiting 25 seconds. My bad. I would probably have been okay with him taking one at 1:10.

It's hard to express yourself fully when typing.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

McVays stubbornness to switch from his offense and game plan is one thing he needs to overcome.

I recall in a game against the Packers the entire offense ran routes to the left and Gurley came across short to the right. It fooled everyone. I also recall Higbee and Everett tearing it up up last winter. I know Everett is not completely healthy but when one thing doesn’t work because a defense is taking away your strengths then shift gears. Take what the defense gives you, even if it is not what you do best. Then in the offseason get players that give you more options to change gears mid game.

 

[Merlin]

Everett was only open once that I can recall where the QB didn't see him, think it was on a third down where we punted so unfortunate but there wasn't a ton of them. Goff read through him way too fast, it was poor execution of the play but overall our TEs don't usually get open. And Goff tends to quickly read past any TE who has a DB on his nuts, he's not a jump ball thrower and probably never will be.

People love to say that McVay is ignoring the TEs. But he has them in early reads at times very clearly and generally they're not open. I will say that he needs to install more delayed releases for them, as that plays well vs LBs who read and diagnose quickly like those of SF, but that's probably why they drafted Hopkins who was nicely developed in routes, in spite of his poor blocking.

IMO we overrate our TEs. I root for them and all that but they're not special by any stretch in the passing game.

 

[badnews]

IMO we overrate our TEs. I root for them and all that but they're not special by any stretch in the passing game.

The only thing special is Everetts RAC abilities. Unfortunately that doesn't make it any easier to get him the ball.
I think when healthy Higbee is a pretty good TE, but like you said, not special.

 

[Neil039]

I'm calling a timeout on the thread...LOL