The Goff Thread

[Mojo Ram]

Didn't. Really. Want to see...that sure fire TD miss in the SB again.
Thanks.

 

[-X-]

Yeah, don't throw picks you gotta a good chance to win.

*Yogi Berra has entered the chat*

 

[Loyal]

*Yogi Berra has entered the chat*

"Half the lies they tell about me, aren't true,"

 

[Deac]

"Half the lies they tell about me, aren't true,"

60% of the time, it works 100% of the time.

 

[PARAM]

Nobody goes there anymore....it's too crowded.

 

[jrry32]

Jared Goff against Middle-of-the-Field Open Coverages


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JROSdDvgD3E&feature=emb_logo


Something I found interesting. Not meant to detract or stir the pot by linking this video. It's just one guy's take and though he seems like he knows what he's talking about, a video of all the great plays Goff did this year would take up a lot bigger video. I linked this to see what other's take on the breakdown is, especially Merlin who has put together a lot of interesting photo-breakdowns.

My take on this vid... interesting when you slow it down that he could've gone the other way or made a faster read, but I'm not ready to hang him since every QB makes a bad decision here and there, and the subpar ones make more bad ones than good. See: Wentz. Not gonna lie, that SB one to Cook still pains me to see. This breakdown guy also did a Wentz video, who is not even in Goff's league anyway.

I can't disagree with this. The Bears absolutely roasted us in 2018 with quarters coverage and that special front. I think part of it is how that sort of coverage can disrupt McVay's scheme (digs and over routes). But I also think Jared has issues with it. My hope is that as he sees it more and more, he'll keep getting better. I look at the second pick against Tampa, and I think Jared was pressing because of how backed up we were on that drive. He should have taken the easy outlet to Kupp. Kupp likely doesn't get the first, but sometimes, you just have to live to play another down. His aggressiveness will get us into trouble now and then. But he's getting better at taking what he's given.

I'm not so bothered by the Washington pick. Sometimes, you just get fooled. As we saw with Brady, it even happens to the most experienced guys in the league. Goff got baited into that throw by a great disguise.

 

[TexasRam]

It a fact if you throw passes, you're gonna throw interceptions. Most are your fault. Some aren't. The key is overcoming those interceptions. Goff has 8. He's got 4 games with none and the Rams are 4-0. He's got 4 games with 1 and the Rams are 2-2. He's got 2 games with 2 and the Rams are 1-1.

How about Rodgers? He's only thrown 4 picks. 7 games with none (6-1). 2 with 1 (1-1). 1 game with 2 (0-1)
How about Rivers? He's thrown 8. 4 games with none (4-0). 4 games with 1 (3-1). 2 games with 2 (0-2)
Wilson has thrown 10? 4 game with none (4-0). 3 games with 1 (3-0). 3 games with 2 (or more) 0-3.

Does it mean anything? Yeah, don't throw picks you gotta a good chance to win.

That is the interesting thing about stats. We can wield them any way we like to make a point. Those points are often invalid or hiding important facts undisclosed.

For example, if an offense cannot run the ball at all they are going to punt the ball all day and lose the game unless they start throwing the ball. This leads to more passes and more opportunities for interceptions. Using a stat such as number of interceptions might indicate a team threw the ball 50 times. It might also indicate they were behind in a game to a good offense. Both common reasons for losing.

Interceptions are often symptoms of being behind or having no run game as we saw Monday night. Losses in those cases are more correlated to the run game or opposing offense/special teams or other factors then being the direct cause of the loss.

Having said that, yea protect the ball better. But your arguement is based on Flawed premises.

Premise 1.
2+ interceptions per game leads to losing football games.
Premise 2.
Because he is our QB, Goff is responsible for the Rams interceptions.

Conclusion: If we have 2+ interceptions we will probably lose and Goff is to blame.

The problem with the arguement:

Premise 1 is faulty. Interceptions can be a result of being behind in a game and forced to pass. Or no run game. Picks are not necessarily the cause.

Premise 2 is faulty. Interceptions can be due to tipped passes, bad routes, unblocked rusher and several other things. All of which we have seen this year.

I can also make a simplistic statement: If you are averaging 2 yards per carry and don’t throw the ball, you will lose the game. That’s called Fisher Ball and generally ends in 7-9 seasons.

 

[FarNorth]

That is the interesting thing about stats. We can wield them any way we like to make a point. Those points are often invalid or hiding important facts undisclosed.

Well stated!!

Stats are abstractions which lack any context except for their own usually imprecisely defined parameters.

Peyton Manning once said that behind every interception there's a backstory nobody wants to hear about (which I take to be a polite way of not throwing some teammate or coach under the bus after a turnover.)

 

[PARAM]

That is the interesting thing about stats. We can wield them any way we like to make a point. Those points are often invalid or hiding important facts undisclosed.

For example, if an offense cannot run the ball at all they are going to punt the ball all day and lose the game unless they start throwing the ball. This leads to more passes and more opportunities for interceptions. Using a stat such as number of interceptions might indicate a team threw the ball 50 times. It might also indicate they were behind in a game to a good offense. Both common reasons for losing.

Interceptions are often symptoms of being behind or having no run game as we saw Monday night. Losses in those cases are more correlated to the run game or opposing offense/special teams or other factors then being the direct cause of the loss.

Having said that, yea protect the ball better. But your arguement is based on Flawed premises.

Premise 1.
2+ interceptions per game leads to losing football games.
Premise 2.
Because he is our QB, Goff is responsible for the Rams interceptions.

Conclusion: If we have 2+ interceptions we will probably lose and Goff is to blame.

The problem with the arguement:

Premise 1 is faulty. Interceptions can be a result of being behind in a game and forced to pass. Or no run game. Picks are not necessarily the cause.

Premise 2 is faulty. Interceptions can be due to tipped passes, bad routes, unblocked rusher and several other things. All of which we have seen this year.

I can also make a simplistic statement: If you are averaging 2 yards per carry and don’t throw the ball, you will lose the game. That’s called Fisher Ball and generally ends in 7-9 seasons.

I agree with what you say that "interceptions can be a result of being behind in a game and forced to pass, or no run game and they're not necessarily the cause. And that interceptions are not always on the QB". But what are the "numbers" on that? I'm sure you'd agree, the more picks you throw, you're chances of winning might decline. There's also a factor of "where" the interceptions occur. On you're half of the field, you're practically giving the opponent a minimum of 3 points. In their end, not so much. But throw one in the red zone and that can have a devastating affect on the psyche of the team. However on you're simplistic statement "of course if you average 2 yards per carry and don't throw the ball, you will lose the game", but how many NFL teams do that? Unless their QB's are injured.

But I think we're basically in agreement as I said in my previous post "...In the 8 games he's thrown 38 passes or less, he's thrown a pick in 4 of them but never multiple picks. In the two games he's thrown multiple picks, he's had 61 and 51 attempts......"

Here's a fact. When you turn the ball over more than your opponent, more times than not, you are going to lose the game. Sure that's picks and fumbles. That doesn't mean "just win the turnover battle and you'll win the game" because teams in the negative win games. The TGSOT often won games when they were a minus in that department. More than the average to be sure.

The last 3 years (2017-2019)

Teams who finished the year on the plus side (46) only 12 had losing records (26%)
Teams who finished the year on the minus side (44) only 8 had winning records (18%)
Teams who finished the year even (6) only 1 had a losing record (17%)

So teams who didn't "lose" the turnover battle had a winning record 75% of the time. And sure, that's 'on the year' and not game by game. And yes, some of those turnovers (at least the picks) were because they were behind and throwing but I'd believe an equal number were the cause of losing. I guess we'd have to actually look at the numbers of picks occurring when behind vs when even or ahead and compare that to the outcome. Exhaustive. So I'll just stand by the old adage, most times, turnovers are the biggest factor in the outcome of a game.

 

[FaulkSF]

Another bad outing by Goff. If you're McVay how would you motivate Goff? His level of play is unacceptable.

 

[jrry32]

He's a grown man. It's on him to step up. McVay should give him the tools and coaching to do it.

 

[Loyal]

He's a grown man. It's on him to step up. McVay should give him the tools and coaching to do it.

elecric shock therapy?

 

[FaulkSF]

He's a grown man. It's on him to step up. McVay should give him the tools and coaching to do it.

He already has the tools and coaching. As a leader what should McVay say?

 

[Angry Ram]

It's all on Jared at this point. 5th year you shouldn't have to be motivating the QB. Protect the goddamn ball.

 

[FaulkSF]

It's all on Jared at this point. 5th year you shouldn't have to be motivating the QB. Protect the goddamn ball.

A good coach doesn't stop coaching and leading. How does McVay get through to Jared?

 

[Faceplant]

Yeah. No. Goff right now is a liability. I cannot remember the last time I felt so uncomfortable with a Rams QB.... 2002 injured Warner maybe.

 

[fearsomefour]

You can’t motivate people.
It’s a massive assumption by the OP that he is not or needs motivation.
No evidence of this and no way fans would know.
He may work his ass off and do everything asked of him and more.
It just may be that he is never going to be a complete player.
Most guys don’t develop into top tier guys.
He may or he may never get there.

 

[fearsomefour]

Yeah. No. Goff right now is a liability. I cannot remember the last time I felt so uncomfortable with a Rams QB.... 2002 injured Warner maybe.

You’re joking, right?