The Goff Thread

[Merlin]

hahaha

It's just funny that people can't come out and say Jared had a good game. One completion short of a MNF record, what 77% completion, 376 yards, took 0 sacks with Boom on his blindside, in a primetime game on the east coast vs a playoff team with a very good defense and good pass rush without anything even remotely resembling a running game and it's seems impossible for people to compliment the guy without backhanding him as well. He threw one bad pass and had another that Hendo left him to dry resulting in a 2nd interception. He had a good game and for some they can't acknowledge that. Sad really but whatever. He's leading us to the playoffs so I'm good.

Not sure who you're talking about hopefully not myself because I have no issues giving Goff cred and have multiple times after this past game. Sometimes around here I feel like talking about anything some players need to improve on results in overreaction city.

For example I could say that AD runs himself out of plays at times and that's a way he could get better. And I'm sure he works on that and is aware of every time it happens. But then someone would swoop in all crazy like I said AD is bad against the run. Message boards man. It's fucking insanity at times.

What I DO want to know is what in the holy fuck is with these delays of game. If that's him, shit's really got to stop. We see it every week, every fucking week. They'll come off a time out FFS, and not get the play off.
I'm sure McVay's a part of this, but they need to correct it. That won't fly in the playoffs.

I don't think we'll ever know to what extent it's Goff tbh. But there are times he loses focus on that clock. Thing is all QBs do that though, and also you have McVay jabbering and putting things on him too.

I would guess it's a byproduct of more being put on him pre-snap this year. He's working it, and learning still, and McVay is never going to quit adding and trying to make it better and more diverse at the line pre-snap. But hopefully come the playoffs they'll have that shit ironed out as a pair and we won't be sitting there hoping they get the snap off cause I agree that shit is stressful at times.

 

[LouisvilleRam]

I agree the running never got better.

In fact I would contend our offense slowed down in the second half due to the following:

1. Too much running.
2. Penalties - Holding and delay of game.
3 Missed FG
4. Too many short passes.
5. Henderson interception due to wrong route (my opinion)
6. Woods interception due to Woods held (my opinion)

Overall saw Mcvay go way to conservative with the runs, short passes, WR end around etc.

Everything was "safe". He should have let Goff loose as Goff was toasting the Bucs DB's all night long and was near unstoppable.

The 3rd and 1 Akers run before the missed FG should have been a pass, Goff had just connected on 5 passes on the drive and was unstoppable.

The 3rd and 5 short pass to Woods behind the LOS should have been a longer pass. This forced a punt.

The 3rd and 8 Brown run was a head scratcher. Goff had just had 3 big pass plays showing they couldnt stop him. Mcvay went conservative putting it on the K and the Defense. Both thankfully came through.

Overall, the second half drive killers were largely due to Mcvay going conservative. As much as I love him as a play caller, he really slowed down our ability to put the Bucs away when we could. But his plan worked so who am I to judge.

You're right on the second pick #23 or was it #24 was literally on woods back for a yard when the ball was arriving. If that doesn't happen he's a step further in his route and pass hits him in the numbers.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Law of averages when throwing 51 times? Maybe. Extrapolated to 400 pass attempts, which is EXTREMELY low for an NFL QB these days, that's 16 INTs. That's way too many.

I think you have made good debate on a few points.

If you extrapolate the stats, however, you are extrapolating the input data as well... which means Goff would be playing 16 games against one of the top defenses.

So.....

I see his stat line as more “par for the course”, when playing a tough course.

The Bucs are no Par-3 course... And... when playing a tough course you will make some bad shots. And... the weather conditions forced us to use fewer clubs from the bag (had to pass like crazy).

Over the length of the season, we do have a few par-3 courses (the NFC east) to help the stats, maybe.

End of golf references.

 

[TexasRam]

Not sure who you're talking about hopefully not myself because I have no issues giving Goff cred and have multiple times after this past game. Sometimes around here I feel like talking about anything some players need to improve on results in overreaction city.

For example I could say that AD runs himself out of plays at times and that's a way he could get better. And I'm sure he works on that and is aware of every time it happens. But then someone would swoop in all crazy like I said AD is bad against the run. Message boards man. It's fucking insanity at times.


I don't think we'll ever know to what extent it's Goff tbh. But there are times he loses focus on that clock. Thing is all QBs do that though, and also you have McVay jabbering and putting things on him too.

I would guess it's a byproduct of more being put on him pre-snap this year. He's working it, and learning still, and McVay is never going to quit adding and trying to make it better and more diverse at the line pre-snap. But hopefully come the playoffs they'll have that shit ironed out as a pair and we won't be sitting there hoping they get the snap off cause I agree that shit is stressful at times.

Honestly, the delay of games is probably due to the fact that our offense really is a heady offense. Everything is predicated on some serious creative strategic Geniuses geeking out on the X's and O's. Does it need to change, yea. They need to get a little less strategic and indecisive sometimes and just call a dam play. I'm sure the delay of games happen league wide and while we rarely get them, we often burn a timeout because Mcvay is spending to much time in his virtual lab during the game.

But I love how Goff gets the blame, he's literally waiting for a playcall and then trying to get guys lined up. Those guys need to dig into the playbook more. We don't need Goff and Kupp correcting them every play. If he needs to audible and change a formation there is often, it appears to me, almost no time to get guys lined up.

Truth is no one knows who's to blame but it definitely needs to be added to the list of "shoot we'll fix that"

 

[MachS]

Honestly, the delay of games is probably due to the fact that our offense really is a heady offense. Everything is predicated on some serious creative strategic Geniuses geeking out on the X's and O's. Does it need to change, yea. They need to get a little less strategic and indecisive sometimes and just call a dam play. I'm sure the delay of games happen league wide and while we rarely get them, we often burn a timeout because Mcvay is spending to much time in his virtual lab during the game.

But I love how Goff gets the blame, he's literally waiting for a playcall and then trying to get guys lined up. Those guys need to dig into the playbook more. We don't need Goff and Kupp correcting them every play. If he needs to audible and change a formation there is often, it appears to me, almost no time to get guys lined up.

Truth is no one knows who's to blame but it definitely needs to be added to the list of "shoot we'll fix that"

The delay of games piss me off and its on McVay 100%. Goff has always been good with the clock, running it down when we need to kill time late, and being aware for the most part. Look at the end of the first half.

If you really watch closely sometimes McVay doesn't give him the play until there's ~15 sec left, and he's expected to possibly change protection or call an audible if need be. Plus we have a WR motion on 90% of plays so that takes time b/c Goff has to wait for them to set too. McVay needs to get the plays in earlier but I think he wants every advantage possible and tries to get a look at def personnel or alignment if he can.

Only fault I put on Goff for the entire game was the 1st INT. Sucks the 2nd came late in the game but cant be mad at an aggressive throw there on 2nd &14. Timing slightly off and safety made a great break. But blaming Hendy for the 1st one is just silly. Under pressure Goff has to rush the throw, he cant lead a RB on a screen when he hasn't even got his head around yet. Put the ball on his body, or better yet just throw that into the ground. To me that was his only bad decision, but still he played great overall and bounced back and won the game at the end. Without any running game too. Still think it was his best game since the 2nd half of Buf.

 

[FrantikRam]

Not disengenous at all and consistent with anything I've said before. It's on both but to give him no credit for not getting sacked is asinine.

To be clear, I'm not not giving him credit for it. I agree with what you're saying - maybe I was wrong to single you out, but my comments were meant for the (large) contingent of Rams fans

I think you have made good debate on a few points.

If you extrapolate the stats, however, you are extrapolating the input data as well... which means Goff would be playing 16 games against one of the top defenses.

So.....

I see his stat line as more “par for the course”, when playing a tough course.

The Bucs are no Par-3 course... And... when playing a tough course you will make some bad shots. And... the weather conditions forced us to use fewer clubs from the bag (had to pass like crazy).

Over the length of the season, we do have a few par-3 courses (the NFC east) to help the stats, maybe.

End of golf references.

Good point. Goff blew me away Monday night, especially with the hot start. Didn't see that coming and I thought he did awesome.

I need to get better about letting things go - it really bothered me how often people piled on Marcus Peters when he was here (and Troy Hill for that matter, even now) - both were, IMO, around the same tier as Goff at their respective positions, which is why I made the point that I did. I loved Peters, love Hill and love Goff as individual players because they're Rams and all three had/have/have had huge games for the Rams - it feels inconsistent to me that so many of the same people that bashed Peters, praise Goff and gloss over his shortcomings, which is what I have an issue with and need to just let go. And I'll be even happier with our QB situation once a few more big contracts are signed and Goff is closer to middle of the pack as far as QB pay goes.

I try not to have any bias with individual Rams players - I think @Merlin is similar in that - if someone has a bad game, I have no problem saying they had a bad game. I always try to take the circumstances into account: for example, Goff against the Niners last year in week 6 versus Goff against the Niners this year in week 6. Last season, the OL got completely obliterated, and I don't think any QB outside of maybe Mahomes (his OL got dominated in the Super Bowl in the same way and they still won, which is why I bring his name up here) could have done better than Goff did that day. But this year, Goff and Kupp both clearly played awful to me while the OL was fine.

But I just need to let stuff go.

 

[dieterbrock]

I'll say this about Goff, and this is not meant with any disrespect, but you just about can tell how his game is going to be in his first 5-6 pass attempts. Whether its the play calling or whatnot, it seems when he (and the offense) starts slow, he struggles mightily

 

[Tano]

I'll say this about Goff, and this is not meant with any disrespect, but you just about can tell how his game is going to be in his first 5-6 pass attempts. Whether its the play calling or whatnot, it seems when he (and the offense) starts slow, he struggles mightily

I usually know by his 2nd pass if he is going to have a good game or not

 

[OldSchool]

At this point I will just stop with these things. I’ll keep laughing when people who criticize but can‘t bring themselves to compliment the player when he does well. I won’t ever stop praising good games or player growth though.

 

[WarnerToBruce]

I see his stat line as more “par for the course”, when playing a tough course.

The Bucs are no Par-3 course... And... when playing a tough course you will make some bad shots. And... the weather conditions forced us to use fewer clubs from the bag (had to pass like crazy).

Over the length of the season, we do have a few par-3 courses (the NFC east) to help the stats, maybe.

CGI, you are a metaphor machine!

 

[jrry32]

I'll say this about Goff, and this is not meant with any disrespect, but you just about can tell how his game is going to be in his first 5-6 pass attempts. Whether its the play calling or whatnot, it seems when he (and the offense) starts slow, he struggles mightily

That's what people are saying, but I don't believe that. Yes, sometimes, Goff looks off early and never finds his rhythm. But other times, he leads a great first drive and then struggles. And in some games, he has looked bad early, only to look absolutely dominant later in the game. IMO, the easiest way to tell if Goff is going to have a hard day is how often he's getting hit early. If our OL can't protect him, I don't like our chances. I love Jared, but he isn't a guy who can stand back there, take a beating, and stay on his game.

 

[Ewe83]

I don't mind criticism of Goff because he's not perfect and he does still need to work on things if he wants to be truly elite and I myself want to see more consistency from him. It's the people who can never give him credit, only point out the bad and especially want to point it out even when he had a great game that get ignored because I just want to celebrate our talented young QB I don't need to see that

 

[FrantikRam]

I'll say this about Goff, and this is not meant with any disrespect, but you just about can tell how his game is going to be in his first 5-6 pass attempts. Whether its the play calling or whatnot, it seems when he (and the offense) starts slow, he struggles mightily

They have that baseball stat for almost every team where they show their record when they score first (well, it's been a big thing for the Indians for several years, assuming it is for all baseball teams).

Rams are getting to that point this year. We're 7-1 when we score first, 0-2 when we don't. The lone loss being to Miami which was fluky in so many ways.

Might be like that for more teams too. But I almost like it better when we receive this year versus kicking off - I like taking the lead and then letting the defense hold it.

 

[Reddog99]

My biggest issue with Goff is the turnovers. At this point I've accepted the fact that he's going to turn the ball over atleast once per game. Not ideal but as long as it's not a crucial moment I can live with it. I liked how Goff was getting the ball out quick vs the Buccs. Holding the ball too long like he has been makes me nervous. Other than that Goff looks to be improving all the time.

 

[1maGoh]

I get what you're saying, and I do give Goff credit - I thought what happened in the 2nd half was going to be the whole game, but he came out on fire. Definitely a big reason why we won, and he proved me wrong.

But it's disrespectful to our defense to say "we won because Goff won the game" - Tampa scored 10 points on 45 yards off of two turnovers in the second half. The defense stopped them on 4th and 1, and the offense couldn't do anything with it. Once the game was tied, we did move down field - but left so much time on the clock that the defense had to win the game. Then, after the defense got the INT, the offense still couldn't slam the door by picking up the first down, and we had to punt, which inexplicably went straight to the returner, which almost gave me a heart attack.

Do we win that game without Goff? No.

Do we win that game with Goff and last years defense? No.

The second turnover was also a situational awareness thing - we were up by a TD with the defense playing great - no reason to force that throw. To me that's not just an INT - it's an extremely low IQ play that I would expect from a Jameis Winston, not Goff.

I mean, you don't really give Goff credit though. You say you give credit, with maybe a weak example of something you've not actually said but might say of you were to give him credit, then immediately follow up with pointing in detail out that he makes bad plays and which ones he made. That's not giving credit. That's pretending to not be biased.

Furthermore, you're just flat wrong about the second interception and there's no other way to put it. Woods tripped, got pushed down, whatever, and want at the spot. That happened after the ball was thrown. No fault on Woods either. Shit happens. Sometimes things just go bad and there's not much anyone could do. This is one of those times.

But do you really? When you do say something positive it seems it is a backhanded compliment that is always followed by something negative.

The 2 picks were not awful awful throws, the 2 that sourpuss threw were awful awful throws. Goff's 1st pick as it has been said and from what I saw Hendo should have stopped and turned, on the 2nd Woods got ran over. Partly because it looked like he slowed down, had he kept going he catches it and most likely gets lit up. There were some bad calls by the refs last night but so many more non calls. enough non calls that it is at least a 14 point swing,

Goff was a 76% completion rate last night for nearly 400 yards and 3 TD's when we ran for 37 yards. I am not going to debate about because it is fruitless to do so, as neither of us is going to change our minds. Happy Thanksgiving.

And I bet Goff went to bed very happy and satisfied with the win next to his hottie.

Edit; there was a stat that popped up last night that at some point Goff was 11/11 against the blitz! Money!

I saw this article from SI that has his blitz stats. Pretty damn good.

This bolded comment is part of the reason you perceive people to not be able to say Goff had a good game (which, I personally did - he had a really good game).

0 sacks is a credit to Goff? So if he was sacked 8 times, it would be on Goff and not the OL?

Those type of comments are part of this disconnect for me. He had a good game - but he could have been better, obviously with the turnovers.

People want to give him credit for things that he shouldn't be getting credit for, definitively.

For me, I blame him for that first INT - some people don't - it's a little ambiguous.

But the not taking any sacks isn't ambiguous IF you blame the OL when he takes a bunch of sacks.

People blame Goff for sacks all the time. It's foundational to the "not good under pressure" narrative. But some people... Some people will hold sacks against him but not give credit for a lack of sacks. I did see later posts where you said it's on both the QB and the O line. And it is. But if it's on both, then why is mentioning it when mentioning good things he's done be a problem? It would only be a problem if someone, and I couldn't possibly think of anyone on this board like this, someone didn't like to see people say good things about Goff.

Also, sorry for including you twice. I was just going through selecting comments I wanted to respond to. I try not to harp on one person too frequently, but it does happen.

 

[Tano]

If someone said we won because of Goff - that would be wrong.

We won because of Goff, the WRs, the running backs, the offensive line, the tight ends, everybody on defense, even special teams.

Have I left anyone out - oh yeah McVay, the assistant coaches (even Bonamego), hell even the assistants to the assistants.

It was an overall team game last night. Everyone contributed. I didn't see a weak link anywhere other than a couple plays here and there.

If not for the Refs, it would have been a blow-out. They kept the game close.

 

[Loyal]

My judgement of Jared Goff is mine alone and maybe totally wrong. Goff is a talented, yet flawed QB. He is streaky, He can be incredible accurate, followed by some boneheaded throw. His critics are unfair to him and are a bit of an echo chamber. They have never forgiven him for not knowing where the sun rises and falls., so they think him stupid. When he does something fantastic, it's solely because of McVay. When something goes wrong, it's all on him.

He's a tough, skinny son of bitch. He's got steel in him as well and that steel will help him and the Rams win at least one Super Bowl. Dude will pull the trigger in a flammable environment, which is good and bad. I thought that last drive to get within FG range is an example of his ability under pressure. The same is true for getting the team in position with one second left in the half, which is also an example of being McVay prepared.

It figures that when I've taken the season off due to reasons that I won't discuss, this could be the team that defies the media narrative. The unsexy team that could give a shit what Skip and Company thinks of them. Great defense, running game, best receiving duo in the NFL could win it all. Fuck me...lol

 

[-X-]

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

If someone said we won because of Goff - that would be wrong.

We won because of Goff, the WRs, the running backs, the offensive line, the tight ends, everybody on defense, even special teams.

Have I left anyone out - oh yeah McVay, the assistant coaches (even Bonamego), hell even the assistants to the assistants.

It was an overall team game last night. Everyone contributed. I didn't see a weak link anywhere other than a couple plays here and there.

If not for the Refs, it would have been a blow-out. They kept the game close.

We have a very complete young team (also incl. coaches, scouting, front office, ownership, etc.) with very few weakesses. It's a great time to be a Rams fan. There's a reason McVay keeps saying "I love this team!"

 

[Ellard80]

I think Goff has some flaws that may never get better.. but hopefully they do.

That being said.. I'd put him as the 2nd best QB the Rams have ever had that I've watched live.... make of it what you will!.