The Goff Thread

[MachS]

Depends on what you mean by improvements - our run game is VASTLY improved. We may not have upgraded in terms of individual talent, but the offense is as a whole is certainly improved over how they played last year

Agree completely. Running game and OL both playing significantly better than last year. Yet we are still scoring less than last year. 11th ranked in '19 and 18th so far in '20.

I do think our deep passing game has been hurt since 2018 and cooks was healthy, but I still think there are opportunities we're not taking advantage of down the field. No doubt a true #1 WR would help Goff. But how likely is it we get one when we're already paying Kupp and Woods as much as we are? Drops have been pretty bad though lately. Not typical of our WRs in the past but there have been some big, big, game changing drops this year.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Garrapolo is:

2-0 against Rodgers
1-0 against Brees
3-0 against Goff

I give Garrapolo ZERO credit for this.

I have no problem giving credit to Goff when he plays well, or even efficient. He played well against the seafucks and for you to say he didn't, well, i don't know what to say.

.

 

[CGI_Ram]

if mcvay didn't like running it in for a td so much, goff 104.

It has crossed my mind; the Rams would do Goff a lot of favors if they ran up his TD stats a few games.

As stupid as it is to say that.

I prefer the current play calling... run it in when close to the goal line. Just get the TD... But, Goff loses a lot of eye candy for “fans/talk show hosts who only know him by his stats”.

 

[dieterbrock]

Depends on what you mean by improvements - our run game is VASTLY improved. We may not have upgraded in terms of individual talent, but the offense is as a whole is certainly improved over how they played last year

Its 2 different concepts. The assertion that improvements were made, therefore Goff had an advantage this year over last year as opposed to looking back at the results and say they are playing better.
I dont think going in to the season there was anyone saying that improvements had been made.
I think the offense is still growing, finding its way and I dont consider a drop from 11 in scoring to 18 is an issue. The low scoring output this season is 16, last season there were 3 shit sandwiches significantly worse than that.

 

[dieterbrock]

It has crossed my mind; the Rams would do Goff a lot of favors if they ran up his TD stats a few games.

As stupid as it is to say that.

I prefer the current play calling... run it in when close to the goal line. Just get the TD... But, Goff loses a lot of eye candy for “fans/talk show hosts who only know him by his stats”.

Its remarkable how many pass plays end at the 1 or 2 yard line. I recall seeing a stat last year how he had an inordinate amount of such plays compared to the league. Everett and Kupp both had catches where they ended up short of the end zone against Seattle, if one of those 2 plays ends up as a TD his rating goes from 96.9 to 106 and the stat hounds view things totally different

 

[FrantikRam]

Its 2 different concepts. The assertion that improvements were made, therefore Goff had an advantage this year over last year as opposed to looking back at the results and say they are playing better.
I dont think going in to the season there was anyone saying that improvements had been made.
I think the offense is still growing, finding its way and I dont consider a drop from 11 in scoring to 18 is an issue. The low scoring output this season is 16, last season there were 3 shit sandwiches significantly worse than that.

Player growth is a form of upgrade in my book.

Goff, Henderson, Edwards, Noteboom, Everett and Corbin are all pretty young, and in Corbin's case came midseason. Having an off-season (even one like this) was probably always going to make him better. For those young guys, improvement is expected IMO.

So it's logical to expect an improved offense without making personnel upgrades to me.

I was pretty sure that the running game would be better, and that we made moves to make it better (letting Gurley go, who I think is now one of the worst RBs in the league, and drafting Akers) - which is an advantage for Goff.

 

[FrantikRam]

I have no problem giving credit to Goff when he plays well, or even efficient. He played well against the seafucks and for you to say he didn't, well, i don't know what to say.

.

I didn't say that? Just wanted to point out that using the Rams record against good QBs as a point to say that Goff is "pretty good" can be misleading.

For context, I think Goff is pretty good - obviously he played a part in winning games - but all we have to do to realize a QB record against a team is a useless stat is to look at Jimmy's record against, well, several teams.

 

[dieterbrock]

Player growth is a form of upgrade in my book.

Goff, Henderson, Edwards, Noteboom, Everett and Corbin are all pretty young, and in Corbin's case came midseason. Having an off-season (even one like this) was probably always going to make him better. For those young guys, improvement is expected IMO.

So it's logical to expect an improved offense without making personnel upgrades to me.

I was pretty sure that the running game would be better, and that we made moves to make it better (letting Gurley go, who I think is now one of the worst RBs in the league, and drafting Akers) - which is an advantage for Goff.

All of this is predicated on how the season has panned out. Going in to the season is another story. Its disingenous to say the Rams made improvements to the offense, as there were significant doubts heading in to the season. Henderson was a big question mark, the oline a big question mark and replacing Cooks another.
I'm not downplaying how well, surprisingly at some positions, the offense has played. I'm quite pleased with that. The inference that Goff was handed some upgrades and has held it back is total BS. (Not your assertion, the one that lead me in to this discussion)

 

[Faceplant]

Goff does need to get better..... and he knows it. If he doesn't, he is still a mid tier QB that the Rams can win with. I think his windup and release are something that needs looking at.... And that is not an easy thing to alter at this stage. I swear those have both gotten slower though, and it does cause him issues with fumbling. He needs to improve his pocket awareness. That's for sure.

However... It's Goff's accuracy that has gotten him this far, and while still accurate, he has regressed a bit in that catagory in my eyes. Good news is that he has shown better and I believe he will show us that dazzling accuracy again soon. It's why we took him #1 in the first place.

 

[PARAM]

All of this is predicated on how the season has panned out. Going in to the season is another story. Its disingenous to say the Rams made improvements to the offense, as there were significant doubts heading in to the season. Henderson was a big question mark, the oline a big question mark and replacing Cooks another.
I'm not downplaying how well, surprisingly at some positions, the offense has played. I'm quite pleased with that. The inference that Goff was handed some upgrades and has held it back is total BS. (Not your assertion, the one that lead me in to this discussion)

It could be said, not only were there no improvements going into the season, many fans were upset they were settling for what they had. I've seen some discussions (on various Rams boards) about the O line where there were many fans who thought Whitworth was too old, Corbett was an unsuccessful cast off (bum) from Cleveland (of all places), Blythe was only here because he was affordable, Noteboom and Allen sucked, Evans might have been the worst of the 4 Sooner lineman drafted, the best young guy they had was a 5th rounder (Edwards) so they waited until the 7th round to draft a lineman?????? And didn't sign any free agents other than Whit and Blythe.

There was some excitement about Jefferson and Akers but even then, some wondered why, with all our receiving depth we'd go after a WR with our first pick! Akers was an excepted choice because they jettisoned Gurley. So yeah, there were significant doubts and in some cases they continue.

Well now, we're certainly going to see about the O line, who they retained and who they acquired last year, now that Whitworth is down for a while. The one thing I'm interested in is Noteboom was a T, was drafted as a T and put in at G. Now that he's in his "natural position" will he impress anyone?

 

[So Ram]

It could be said, not only were there no improvements going into the season, many fans were upset they were settling for what they had. I've seen some discussions (on various Rams boards) about the O line where there were many fans who thought Whitworth was too old, Corbett was an unsuccessful cast off (bum) from Cleveland (of all places), Blythe was only here because he was affordable, Noteboom and Allen sucked, Evans might have been the worst of the 4 Sooner lineman drafted, the best young guy they had was a 5th rounder (Edwards) so they waited until the 7th round to draft a lineman?????? And didn't sign any free agents other than Whit and Blythe.

There was some excitement about Jefferson and Akers but even then, some wondered why, with all our receiving depth we'd go after a WR with our first pick! Akers was an excepted choice because they jettisoned Gurley. So yeah, there were significant doubts and in some cases they continue.

Well now, we're certainly going to see about the O line, who they retained and who they acquired last year, now that Whitworth is down for a while. The one thing I'm interested in is Noteboom was a T, was drafted as a T and put in at G. Now that he's in his "natural position" will he impress anyone?

Noteboom has already impressed me this season for how he came back from his Knee injury. I have doubts The Rams ever have Whitworth back for another snap ? I can’t say though in what any of the future is going to be ?

What I will & have always Stated for Those is The Rams have more depth in 2020 than at any time I can really recall since the Beating Warner took & Bulger through all his season as a Ram QB.

Goff ? I think the poster you are replying to is wrong about a couple things.Just the mere fact that The Rams didn’t make any changes in 2020 except draft picks should have been a Plus. I will also say Malcom Browns 2 TD’s Sunday were impressive.

I believe after watching some of Sunday’s game that Mcvay is asking Jared Goff to come out of his box a little more?? Will see,but I think having the Old Veteran WR is key. I also saw how good JOSH REYNOLDS played & led the team in Targets & Catches.

I would have hated to what this season would have looked like without 2 key FA’s in Whitworth & Austin Blythe. Just the Fact he is playing Center instead of RG is a Big upgrade.I would have hated seeing Brian Allen starting a Center.He doesn’t even make the game day roster.

 

[FrantikRam]

It could be said, not only were there no improvements going into the season, many fans were upset they were settling for what they had. I've seen some discussions (on various Rams boards) about the O line where there were many fans who thought Whitworth was too old, Corbett was an unsuccessful cast off (bum) from Cleveland (of all places), Blythe was only here because he was affordable, Noteboom and Allen sucked, Evans might have been the worst of the 4 Sooner lineman drafted, the best young guy they had was a 5th rounder (Edwards) so they waited until the 7th round to draft a lineman?????? And didn't sign any free agents other than Whit and Blythe.

There was some excitement about Jefferson and Akers but even then, some wondered why, with all our receiving depth we'd go after a WR with our first pick! Akers was an excepted choice because they jettisoned Gurley. So yeah, there were significant doubts and in some cases they continue.

Well now, we're certainly going to see about the O line, who they retained and who they acquired last year, now that Whitworth is down for a while. The one thing I'm interested in is Noteboom was a T, was drafted as a T and put in at G. Now that he's in his "natural position" will he impress anyone?

I personally didn't want any OL additions because midround picks are unlikely to be improvements over what we had, which settled in and played pretty well late in the season last year. Havenstein had arguably his worst year last year, so it was more likely than not that he would better.

I didn't want Van Jefferson - I think he'll be a stud so I'm glad we drafted him now - but I wanted even less "upgrades" for the offense, because I thought the offense just underperformed as a whole last season, and that was the outlier.

 

[PhillyRam]

I am confused.... The TV talking heads today are mentioning how good Russell Wilson is when he has a run game.

Cowherd commenting that Wilson's 200 yds passing with a big running attack is the perfect game for him... And he means it as a compliment.

Yet, when people say Goff needs a running attack and play action, it's meant as a criticism?

Now not saying Goff is in Russ' league, but I don't get those two views with one being a positive and the other as a negative when it comes to those two guys.

 

[PARAM]

I personally didn't want any OL additions because midround picks are unlikely to be improvements over what we had, which settled in and played pretty well late in the season last year. Havenstein had arguably his worst year last year, so it was more likely than not that he would better.

I didn't want Van Jefferson - I think he'll be a stud so I'm glad we drafted him now - but I wanted even less "upgrades" for the offense, because I thought the offense just underperformed as a whole last season, and that was the outlier.

McVay said when he arrived in Los Angeles, "you can never have enough weapons" and it's apparent they added some in the off season. Will they contribute a lot in 2020? With half a season left, we'll see (some might say "less" than a half season, some might say "more"). I can see how viewing Havenstein's 2019 season one might say, he can only improve but that was not a given. Obviously he has. I was actually happy with their construction of the O line last year. Edwards had an injury filled senior season at Wisconsin and many said he would have gone much higher if he hadn't been injured. Corbett was drafted high and though that's not a guarantee of success, he was worth a shot because it's hard to judge somebody playing for Freddie Kitchens in Cleveland. I though Evans was the best of the new 2019 youngsters by season's end. And he's currently a reserve...which may be more a positive regarding the starting 5 than a negative on him. Blythe was much, much better at C than G. But Whitworth's performance the first 9 games was better than we could have reasonably expected.

So what about Goff? I think he's doing just fine and what I like more than any other part of his game is his toughness. The guy got his ass beat up last year and in a few games this year. He gets up and goes at it all over again. That's what a good player should do but we shouldn't take that for granted. I feel as this O line gets better and the youngsters, including Henderson get more experience our offense will improve and perhaps McVay will open it up more. I like the fact we're running much more than last year and with much more success. That can only benefit Goff. Having a defense that shuts teams down in the second half is not necessarily something you should always depend on but it's certainly become expected. They are performing better than expected than any other facet of the team. I'm a bit disappointed in special teams outside of Hekker and Nsimba. Our coverage sucks in both parts of the kicking game. Gotta tighten that up.

If somebody told me all that has happened would happen and we'd be on the cusp of leading the NFC West after 10 games, I'd have taken that, gladly. All we need to do is beat the greatest quarterback to ever take a snap in the history of the NFL (said with just a touch of sarcasm) but I think we may have the defense to do it.

 

[Mackeyser]

Well, not sure Julian Edelmen, Wes Welker, Dion Branch, Adam Hernandez, were JAGs. Brady also had some pretty nice running backs that could catch.

My point is that none of them were either speed guys like Cooks or physical specimens like Moss, Julio Jones or DK Metcalfe. They were decently quick, understood how to run routes, knew the system well and generally had pretty to very good hands, Wes Welker and Julian Edelman especially.

In our offense, Cooks often took a safety with him to prevent the deep ball which really opened up the underneath crossing routes for Kupp and Woods. Without that, opposing defenses have been able to shrink the field a bit.

Seeing as we're not likely to invest in a physical specimen for those 50/50 balls, at the very least, we should look for a speed guy who could be that #4 once Reynolds goes and Van steps up.

A speed guy who's also a returner is someone who'd do well on the jet sweep. Hopefully a Tavon Austin type who could run routes...

 

[PhillyRam]

My point is that none of them were either speed guys like Cooks or physical specimens like Moss, Julio Jones or DK Metcalfe. They were decently quick, understood how to run routes, knew the system well and generally had pretty to very good hands, Wes Welker and Julian Edelman especially.

In our offense, Cooks often took a safety with him to prevent the deep ball which really opened up the underneath crossing routes for Kupp and Woods. Without that, opposing defenses have been able to shrink the field a bit.

Seeing as we're not likely to invest in a physical specimen for those 50/50 balls, at the very least, we should look for a speed guy who could be that #4 once Reynolds goes and Van steps up.

A speed guy who's also a returner is someone who'd do well on the jet sweep. Hopefully a Tavon Austin type who could run routes...

They at least need to burn a mid-round pick on a speed guy that can also double as a return guy. Obviously won't be a polished guy if you take him in the 4th or 5th, but someone with some wheels.

 

[Mackeyser]

Plus, we just need a legit return guy.

I swear I have anxiety every time I see Kupp back to field a punt...

 

[MachS]

So what about Goff? I think he's doing just fine and what I like more than any other part of his game is his toughness. The guy got his ass beat up last year and in a few games this year. He gets up and goes at it all over again. That's what a good player should do but we shouldn't take that for granted.

I dont think anyone has ever questioned Goff's toughness. Mental toughness to overcome a 1-11 year as a true freshman at Cal and bring that program back. Mental toughness to start 0-7 as a rookie with Fisher and turn his career around in the following years with McVay. Plus how he stands in the pocket and takes punishment with the best of them. No one can question his toughness, but that's not what we're talking about.

Specifically looking at 2019 vs 2020, we HAVE improved multiple areas of support for Goff. The OL has vastly improved their play, whether or not we drafted any top OL rookie talent. That doesn't matter, look at our running game now, look at the time Goff is getting in the pocket. The OL has played great. Also our running game is much better than last year. Far more efficient on early downs and overall yards per carry. That makes our play action more effective. Losing 2019 Cooks is an upgrade for us. He was totally useless last year and did nothing for this offense. Reynolds has outplayed him through 10 weeks and is on pace to have a much better year than Cooks did last year.

So considering these factors, the question is why is the offense performing worse than last year, when the OL and the play of our running game have improved? Throw in an improved #2 rated defense which provides more possessions, and better field position for the offense. Yet offensively we are still performing worse than last year.

 

[PARAM]

I dont think anyone has ever questioned Goff's toughness. Mental toughness to overcome a 1-11 year as a true freshman at Cal and bring that program back. Mental toughness to start 0-7 as a rookie with Fisher and turn his career around in the following years with McVay. Plus how he stands in the pocket and takes punishment with the best of them. No one can question his toughness, but that's not what we're talking about.

Specifically looking at 2019 vs 2020, we HAVE improved multiple areas of support for Goff. The OL has vastly improved their play, whether or not we drafted any top OL rookie talent. That doesn't matter, look at our running game now, look at the time Goff is getting in the pocket. The OL has played great. Also our running game is much better than last year. Far more efficient on early downs and overall yards per carry. That makes our play action more effective. Losing 2019 Cooks is an upgrade for us. He was totally useless last year and did nothing for this offense. Reynolds has outplayed him through 10 weeks and is on pace to have a much better year than Cooks did last year.

So considering these factors, the question is why is the offense performing worse than last year, when the OL and the play of our running game have improved? Throw in an improved #2 rated defense which provides more possessions, and better field position for the offense. Yet offensively we are still performing worse than last year.

We're throwing shorter, quicker passes for a reason this year and it's not because Goff can't go through his progressions. The run game is better, yes but part of that is because ALL of our RBs have good knees. Goff has enough time in the pocket and sometimes he doesn't.

I've considered those factors and it is my opinion you are overstating the improvement of the O line. Are they better this year? Yes. Are they playing "great"? Great is an overstatement. They're playing pretty good. Why is our offense playing worse than last year? Honest answer? They're not. Last year we averaged 22.9 offensive PPG. This year we're averaging 24.0. How is that NOT improvement? If you're talking about the "eyeball test" then you aren't remembering the Browns game, the Steelers game, the Bears game or the Ravens game. The last 5 games of the year, the O line got better (than they were when they were in flux). We averaged 27.6 offensive PPG over those last 5 games. We had 4 turnovers and 10 takeaways. That "plus 6" helped the offense. I think that may be the offense you're comparing the 2020 offense to, not the entire 2019 offense. Right now, we're EVEN on +/-. So why is the offense only playing a little better than last year? Too many turnovers and not efficient enough in the Red Zone.