The Goff Thread

[MachS]

Not even gonna lie I didn't read anything you posted because you already came to the conclusion it's on all goff so what's the point of having a discussion with you? Its obvious you dont like goff and never did.

If you dont want to have a discussion or disagree you can always choose to go that route lol. But dont confuse me as someone that has "never liked goff." I wanted him over Wentz and still think he's better.

But I am not one of those delusional Rams fans that believe he's better than Mahomes blah blah blah like all the other stupid posts on this board. I am genuinely curious why some people believe the things they do. Especially when we have video and statistical evidence that shows he hasn't played his best football since 2018. My post was regarding 2019 vs this year. And why people think improving the running game and oline hasn't helped the offense that much.

 

[Giles]

If you dont want to have a discussion or disagree you can always choose to go that route lol. But dont confuse me as someone that has "never liked goff." I wanted him over Wentz and still think he's better.

But I am not one of those delusional Rams fans that believe he's better than Mahomes blah blah blah like all the other stupid posts on this board. I am genuinely curious why some people believe the things they do. Especially when we have video and statistical evidence that shows he hasn't played his best football since 2018. My post was regarding 2019 vs this year. And why people think improving the running game and oline hasn't helped the offense that much.

Again no point in having a discussion with a obviously bias poster. I wont be looking at your bias goff bashing nonsense post anymore.

 

[MachS]

First off, how are we the "21st overall offense" in the NFL? There are two ways most people measure offense. Yards and points. If you go by yards, we are #7. If you go by points, we are #18, tied with Cleveland. How did you arrive at 21?

Youre absolutely right thats my bad we shouldn't be penalized for having a bye. We are tied for 18th in the NFL in PPG not 21st.

So last year we were what 11th in the NFL at 24.6 PPG right? So in 2020 we improved the running game, oline, and defense... but the offense has fallen 7 spots to 18th this year? How would explain that drop to a non rams fan?

 

[MachS]

Do those stats account for defensive personnel faced, defensive scheme deployed, play called by the coach, WR separation, offensive personnel?

Tom Brady 24 TD in ‘06
Tom Brady 50 TD in ‘07

Tom Brady got Randy Moss.

QB Stats are funny things when you try to make arguments with them.

This isn’t Golf or bowling bro. It’s a team game affected by numerous variables.

Youre definitely right about personnel, and I think losing the Cooks from 2018 (b/c he wasnt himself last yr) is one of the major factors to Goff's low average depth of target these days. We dont have that same level of field stretcher and that makes a difference. But it's not like we haven't had our chances down the field this season. Last year with how bad the oline was, people assumed that was the reason we weren't throwing the ball down the field. This year with the improved oline and running game, we still aren't. So is that all on McVay and WR/TE personnel? I think looking at the all-22 stuff shows much more than stats, but the normal passing stats combined with the advanced passing stats says something to me.

 

[Ramlock]

But I am not one of those delusional Rams fans that believe he's better than Mahomes blah blah blah like all the other stupid posts on this board.

You're going to have to link us to one of those, bro...I don't see anyone on this board doing that.

We don't run down Rams players and coaches here but no one is saying anything like Goff>Mahomes.

Matter of fact, we don't really call other posters on THIS board delusional either.

So, that little posting gem sucked.

 

[MachS]

Again no point in having a discussion with a obviously bias poster. I wont be looking at your bias goff bashing nonsense post anymore.

FYI the posters that talk shit just to talk shit and say "FUCK Goff, He sucks, hes trash, we shoud start Wolford"... those are Goff bashers.

If you think its the same thing to present a point of view and provide statistics, both normal and advanced passing stats, and then say I think our QB needs to play better.. then I'm sorry you cant tell the difference. Especially when I'm asking you why YOU think the offense isn't playing as well this year compared to last year, when we've clearly improved our oline and running game. Thats what having a discussion is, no reason to get upset if you have a different opinion.

After all the stats I posted this is all you've contributed BTW:

You just did the exact same thing. The only stat that matters is wins. Is goff winning?

Not even gonna lie I didn't read anything you posted because you already came to the conclusion it's on all goff so what's the point of having a discussion with you? Its obvious you dont like goff and never did.

Way to have a mature discussion and give your opinion

 

[dieterbrock]

Its just funny how we pick stats like yards per game and points per game to fit a narrative

Or its funny how to fit a narrative in to stats. Like cherry picking QB rating and stuff.
Rams have lost 3 games. Miami game was on him, Buffalo game on the Defense and San Fran was a mix of both
Ultimately, its a team game and they are in 1st place in the division and only 1 game out of 1st seed in the NFC.
Its been a good year all things considered. Should try enjoying it

But I am not one of those delusional Rams fans that believe he's better than Mahomes blah blah blah like all the other stupid posts on this board.

You dont have much credibility making up something like that. Nobody on here says that

 

[Merlin]

What is a real bummer I think is that the offense has been showing some signs with the run game which would help them in getting closer to who they used to be. But losing Whit on top of the next four defenses we're facing means the offense will probably continue to struggle. We're most likely going to need to rely on our defense for a while.

But we still have a chance to be a team that is putting it all together going into the playoffs. And that's what's important to me at least. Just find a way to win enough games to get in the playoffs that's all I care about right now.

 

[PARAM]

Here is a deeper dive into advanced passing stats vs 2018 -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing_advanced.htm

^^ what do these two advanced air yard stats tell us? His average depth of target is among the lowest in the NFL. Lots of screens, short passes, short crossing routes... Not throwing the ball down the field enough for explosive plays in the passing game. Look at those numbers compared to his last good season in 2018.



^^what do these advanced accuracy stats tell us? He is pretty accurate when throwing the ball. This has always been the case with Goff and his arm talent. There have been twice as many passes dropped this year vs 2018, and there have big some big drops this year for sure. But how would the bad throw% numbers change when his average completed depth of target increases beyond 5.4yards? Safe to assume they go down if he was throwing the ball down the field more, just like in 2018. But overall, the accuracy stats seem solid.

^^what do these advanced pressure stats tell us? In 2020 Goff has been pressured much less than he was in 2018. He's been pressured the 4th least amount of all QBs this season, but he's been blitzed the 7th highest in the NFL. Think about that, 7th highest amount of blitzes but the 30th QB in amount of pressure taken. That tells me something about the oline and how McVay has changed his scheme to keep Goff away from pressure. How about pocket time? #9 in the NFL in time given in the pocket, and only 1/10th of a second less than he had in 2018 when he had the most pocket time in the NFL at 2.6 seconds per snap. This has lead to less sacks this year through 10 weeks. He has only been sacked 13 times this year through 10 weeks where he took 33 in 2018.

So he's been pressured less this year, has taken less sacks, has about the same time in the pocket to throw. To me no one can blame his play on the oline or the pressure after looking at this. His accuracy is solid this year but he has had to battle through more drops than in 2018. However his average depth of target is much less and shows he's not throwing the ball down the field nearly as much. To me given the way the running game has played (8th rated rushing attack in the NFL) and clearly above shows how well the oline and McVay are playing to keep Goff away from pressure, he should be playing much better.

Table#1: So is that shorter depth of pass because Goff isn't looking downfield or routes aren't going downfield or McVay wants the ball out quicker.....which could mean he's not as confident about our pass pro?

Table#2: So you think accuracy is a strength of his but you think that might change with deeper routes? I think he's shown he can be accurate on deeper routes, from 2017 through 2019.

Table#3: If the ball is coming out quicker for the short routes, either by his choice or McVay's, does the pressure have time to arrive? I don't know. Just asking.

I'm certainly not going to blame the O line. I'm also not going blame Goff. I'm also not going to blame the drops, though they're more damning than either of the first two when it comes to sustaining drives and putting up points. I'm going to blame all three. I think McVay rolls him out frequently because the pass pro isn't what it was in 2018. I think the shorter throws are by design because we are running the ball better and more often and the pass pro isn't what it was in 2018. Now, can this all change? Sure.

 

[Tano]

If we are in a 5 wide set, and the defense in showing blitz with 6 defenders on the line of scrimmage. Do you really think Goff cant audible to a quick pass outside or to a screen? You think that call has to come from McVay??? What you should be asking yourself is why didnt Goff audible to a screen. Why did he think he would have protection on that play when they were showing zero blitz? And if he wanted to be aggressive, and not audible and keep the original play on, why would he not motion a TE or RB back into the backfield to give himself an extra blocker? Those are the questions you should be asking. And the answer is, he thought he had time. He thought he could get that play off as is, which shows his lack of understanding of the situation and how to handle pressure.

Valid point but I already said Goff sucks on reading blitzes. However, after the first one, they should have sat down with Goff and discussed about using WR screens against that specific defense every time. And that is on coaching and that is why I blame McVay for that game especially. The SF game was just bad in the first half because Goff was off that game.

 

[MachS]

Or its funny how to fit a narrative in to stats. Like cherry picking QB rating and stuff.
Rams have lost 3 games. Miami game was on him, Buffalo game on the Defense and San Fran was a mix of both
Ultimately, its a team game and they are in 1st place in the division and only 1 game out of 1st seed in the NFC.
Its been a good year all things considered. Should try enjoying it


You dont have much credibility making up something like that. Nobody on here says that

This is a Goff discussion thread right and how his play relates to the offense and our success? I respect your opinion but I didnt cherry pick two stats. Completion %, TDs, passer rating, QBR, average depth of target, pressure %, time given in the pocket, bad throw%, on target%, drops, sacks..there's a lot of data there.

But I dont disagree with what you said about those 3 losses. Miami was on him, Buffalo was on the D for sure, and I think the 2nd half of the Buffalo game was the best Goff has looked all year, and san fran was a mix of both. My question and concern comes comparing last year to this year. In 2019 we had a weak o-line, no running game, and finished 11th in scoring. This year we have improved both areas drastically, and we also have the 2nd rated D. So how does it make sense to you that our offense has fallen to 18th in scoring with all those improvements?

And regarding the Mahomes thing, Im not going to call out any posters individually, but we've all seen the posts the past year. There are numerous posts about how people prefer Goff to anyone else in the NFL. And thats fine, I get loving the Rams and your team that much. But I wont go to unrealistic levels like that, that's all I was saying.

 

[Merlin]

Way I see it Goff's probs are like 90% related to seeing and recognizing things in real time. He's just not a super fast processor (he is average there IMO) and that's why McVay is always pushing him with tempo and speeding things up. And he's also probably not to the point yet where he can juggle everything at the highest speed there at the line with very high accuracy. That's when he misses shit.

In the game vs Seattle there was a play where he sort of stuck on his first two reads. It was fuckin weird man I don't know what he was thinking but I am sure it pisses McVay off. That particular play Seattle was all over the two reads (right side field) and he should have read past them immediately because of the routes being bracketed. Had he gotten to the other side he had a dumpoff for a nice gainer.

But it's hit and miss too. He had a really nice one where he looked off the defense before throwing the pass the other side. Probably scripted but point is he's definitely a work in progress. From there all we can hope is he achieves mastery because if not we're not gonna win shit the next couple seasons. So I'm all in with the guy just want to see him keep improving and it sure would be nice to see a great performance or two mixed in to remind us what he's capable of when he does read it and react quickly.

 

[MachS]

Valid point but I already said Goff sucks on reading blitzes. However, after the first one, they should have sat down with Goff and discussed about using WR screens against that specific defense every time. And that is on coaching and that is why I blame McVay for that game especially. The SF game was just bad in the first half because Goff was off that game.

Yea true I'll give you that, after the first one or two that got home, I dont know why McVay didnt pull him aside and look at the tablet and make sure he knew what to do when they blitzed like that again. People we're mad we kept going 5 wide in that game, but if McVay thought we couldnt deal with it, why would he keep calling that formation? That was a tough game and more of an outlier I think, not trying to harp on the MIA game. I'm more looking at the complete picture from 2019 to this year.

Table#1: So is that shorter depth of pass because Goff isn't looking downfield or routes aren't going downfield or McVay wants the ball out quicker.....which could mean he's not as confident about our pass pro?

Table#2: So you think accuracy is a strength of his but you think that might change with deeper routes? I think he's shown he can be accurate on deeper routes, from 2017 through 2019.

Table#3: If the ball is coming out quicker for the short routes, either by his choice or McVay's, does the pressure have time to arrive? I don't know. Just asking.

I'm certainly not going to blame the O line. I'm also not going blame Goff. I'm also not going to blame the drops, though they're more damning than either of the first two when it comes to sustaining drives and putting up points. I'm going to blame all three. I think McVay rolls him out frequently because the pass pro isn't what it was in 2018. I think the shorter throws are by design because we are running the ball better and more often and the pass pro isn't what it was in 2018. Now, can this all change? Sure.

Table#1: Yea thats what I'm curious about what you guys think. Its interesting to me. Last year we obviously switched to a more short passing attack. And if you asked most people around here why that was, most would say the oline wasn't giving Goff enough time to let down field routes develop. But this year, the oline is protecting great, giving him plenty of time and keeping him away from pressure...but we are still using the same short passing attack. To me this is the big single difference with our current offense vs '17 and '18. We used to get big chunk explosive gains in the passing game down the field many times a game. So did McVay just completely change his scheme to nothing really down the field anymore? Or is he just trying to be extra careful the oline doesn't lose us games b/c he has PTSD from last year? Or is Goff choosing not to go down the field? Hard to say I think.

Table#2: I think this shows Goff is very accurate in intermediate passing yea. Top 1/3rd of the league. But in 2018 when we threw more deep passes this number is going to drop slightly. But still I think the accuracy stats are good for Goff this year too.

Table#3: I'm not sure about this one either. Looks like the oline is protecting great, but its kind of like the chicken and the egg lol. Does the oline pressure % look good because McVay wants to run more short routes, and we're getting rid of it quicker? Or is the oline really protecting well, and Goff just isnt going down the field? Its tough to say too I think. But if you look at seconds in the pocket 2.5sec vs 2.6sec its almost the same as 2018 when we were going down the field a ton.

The drops I think is pretty big though, because I can think of like 6-7 really big game changing drops. Some came on a few deep passes too, I remember one to woods for like 50 yards down the right sideline that hit him right in the hands. Was probably Goff's best throw of the season IMO.

 

[Florida_Ram]

This game at Tampa Monday night is about Jared putting his big boy pants on and matching Brady blow for blow.

Brady has owned the Rams and Goff has to play well and he knows this better than anyone. Play smart, aggressive and protect the football.

If the Bucs are firing on all cylinders offensively in the first half, Jared needs to make sure his offense is doing the same.

If the game is close in 4th quarter, I'm assuming quarterback play will decide the outcome.

WE ARE ROOTING FOR YOU JARED GOFF.

Step up your game and change the perception of your doubters.

 

[dieterbrock]

So how does it make sense to you that our offense has fallen to 18th in scoring with all those improvements?

Improvements? They didnt add anyone to the o-line, released their 3x scoring leader (54 td's in 3 seasons) in Gurley and almost 2k in yardage and only deep threat in Cooks. Then had no preseason with a new OC. Not sure that qualifies as improvements?
Still and all, the offense despite missing those players has been pretty good, and even at its worst gave us a chance in the 4th Q of every game they lost. So they're about 3 ppg from 11th place, I dont see that being why they lost 3 games. And with an average win margin of over 11 ppg, I dont see where they needed the extra 3 points.

And regarding the Mahomes thing, Im not going to call out any posters individually, but we've all seen the posts the past year.

Sorry man, that's not gonna fly. We all havent seen the posts saying Goff is better than Mahomes. In fact, none of us have.

 

[MachS]

Improvements? They didnt add anyone to the o-line, released their 3x scoring leader (54 td's in 3 seasons) in Gurley and almost 2k in yardage and only deep threat in Cooks. Then had no preseason with a new OC. Not sure that qualifies as improvements?

Youre with a straight face trying to say that the oline was good last year as hasn't improved this season? Did you watch the 2019 injuries on the OL? And the running game was good? And Cooks was valuable? You have got to be kidding me, good god man stop trolling .

The oline, and the running game have both improved a lot, but you already know that. New OC? Because what he installed a new system and is calling plays over McVay? You cant be serious with this response.

Sorry man, that's not gonna fly. We all havent seen the posts saying Goff is better than Mahomes. In fact, none of us have.

And yea like I said there have been multiple posts about Mahomes and other top QBs, if you start paying a bit more attention I'm sure you'll catch some.

 

[PARAM]

I know I've never said he's better than Mahomes. I don't think anybody is better than Mahomes. Not Wilson. Not Murray. Nobody. But it is a team game and you need a good QB, a good offensive line, a good defense and good special teams (which we need some work on outside of Hekker and Webster). Having said that here's how Goff and the Rams have faired when the Rams play the better QBs.

McVay's Rams.....

5-2 against Wilson
3-1 against Dak
3-1 against Brees
2-0 against Murray
1-0 against Rodgers
1-0 against Rivers
1-0 against Mahomes
1-0 against Stafford
1-1 against Cousins
1-1 against Wentz
1-1 against Ryan

and if they win Monday, he's 1-1 against Brady

 

[Mojo Ram]

And I'm fine with that. Just took exception to people blaming a lack of weapons when we've invested heavily (both financial and draft capital) in weapons.

Yeah but the Rams aren't the only team investing heavily in weapons or paying talented skill guys. It happens all over the league and only one team wins the championship. IMO these takes are myopic.

I can't speak for everyone you're conversing with here, but i read some folks talking about our weapons not being as dynamically explosive or athletic as others. I would agree with that. For example we don't have a Metcalf, Jones, Hopkins etc. Those guys are rare.

I mean you can criticize our GM/personnel dept i guess... for not acquiring one of those type of guys...and criticize many other teams as well. IMO our WR core is very good but we are missing some speed and explosiveness. Should the Rams have just not payed our guys? Should they have let them all walk despite being good and just keep drafting and turning over the roster every year until we corner the market on the transcendent guys?

I think Goff has good enough weapons to be successful (which i assume was your original take) not ultra elite, but we are missing some particular skill sets IMO.

 

[dieterbrock]

And yea like I said there have been multiple posts about Mahomes and other top QBs, if you start paying a bit more attention I'm sure you'll catch some.

Post 1 saying better than Mahomes, otherwise you're straight up lying

Youre with a straight face trying to say that the oline was good last year as hasn't improved this season? Did you watch the 2019 injuries on the OL? And the running game was good? And Cooks was valuable? You have got to be kidding me, good god man stop trolling .

The oline, and the running game have both improved a lot, but you already know that. New OC? Because what he installed a new system and is calling plays over McVay? You cant be serious with this response.

Man, triggered much? Try to focus, you're all over the place. You said they made improvements, what are they? Same oline players, same coaches, same system. Whats different? I'd say being relatively healthy this year as opposed to last is making a big difference. That's an improvement? Losing Gurley and Cooks is an improvement? Cmon man.

 

[MachS]

Post 1 saying better than Mahomes, otherwise you're straight up lying

Man, triggered much? Try to focus, you're all over the place. You said they made improvements, what are they? Same oline players, same coaches, same system. Whats different? I'd say being relatively healthy this year as opposed to last is making a big difference. That's an improvement? Losing Gurley and Cooks is an improvement? Cmon man.

Nah bud you can go through the "trade wilson for Goff thread" and try actually reading posts for once. If you think the oline hasn't improved then I doubt you've watched one Rams game this year. I would actually bet you haven't watched any games if you're saying that. There cant be any other explanation. Blythes improved play, Edwards and Corbett at G, and Hav being healthy this year has yielded a much much better line. Which has resulted in the 8th ranked rushing attack. And again we have the 2nd rated defense in the NFL.

So yea those improvements. ^^ just above this text. Still waiting for you to give another reason, OC didnt work, Preseason, we never play starters in the preseason good try.. whats next Covid?