The Goff thread to end all Goff threads

[OC--LeftCoast]

I pointed out the same issue with Goff. He needed to learn to take a sack and live to play another down. Later in the season, he finally started doing that and protecting the ball (mostly). But if you and I knew that was a problem, McVay knew that was a problem, right? This goes back to my point about a play caller needing to know his QB's weaknesses and do his best to cover them. That's why I've strongly disagreed with the people who aren't willing to put any blame on McVay for our offense's issues in certain games last year. McVay shouldn't escape criticism just because Goff screwed up too. Both were at fault. And both deserved credit when things went well. I can only hope that McVay and Stafford proves to be a better pairing.

Agreed and to take it a step further;

Right but from my perspective Goff and McVay were a great pairing...until they weren’t

To me it should be obvious what went wrong, the belief that a 24 yr old two time Pro Bowl QB just outta the blue “regresses” is a preposterous notion, there were contributing factors some appear to overlook

 

[Loyal]

So we have a new QB....

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

So we have a new QB....

Yes, go back to bed now ya bastid

 

[OldSchool]

So we have a new QB....

And you know how well people around here let go of the past. Goff will be brought up in every GDT along with another half dozen every week for years.

 

[Neil039]

Good
Old
Freda
Felcher

 

[Loyal]

And you know how well people around here let go of the past. Goff will be brought up in every GDT along with another half dozen every week for years.

Who is this Goff of which you speak?

 

[FrantikRam]

Threads like this continue to divide a lot of people on here. I'm sure a lot of the pro Goff crowd are still hurting and it's understandable. But I'm counting down the days until this thread is locked and people can finally move on. McVay and the franchise made a decision and I'm excited to see Stafford spin it next year. For some people discussing Goff every single day is an addiction at this point.

I genuinely cannot understand why anyone would be hurting. Does not compute for me.

I had Gurleys jersey and when he was cut it didn't bother me because his play had clearly not been good.

I know that most fanbases tend to be divided about their QB, but just using raw stats as a starting point, I have never seen so many people defending a QB with stats this poor (relative to their peers).

I hate the Niners but using the QB winzzzz argument, Jimmy G is better than Goff. Better win percentage. Never lost to Goff head to head.

Even without the injuries most Niner fans wanted to upgrade.[/QUOTE]

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Good
Old
Freda
Felcher

Felcher?
okay now, yuck and double yuck

 

[Neil039]

Felcher?
okay now, yuck and double yuck

Dumb and Dumber....It spelled Goff so I had an internal laugh

 

[jrry32]

I genuinely cannot understand why anyone would be hurting. Does not compute for me.

The best advice I have is if you can't understand where people are coming from, make an attempt. If you still can't, sit out the conversation. Because it won't lead anywhere productive.

I know that most fanbases tend to be divided about their QB, but just using raw stats as a starting point, I have never seen so many people defending a QB with stats this poor (relative to their peers).

You weren't around for the Kurt Warner debates, then.

I hate the Niners but using the QB winzzzz argument, Jimmy G is better than Goff. Better win percentage. Never lost to Goff head to head.

And spent the vast majority of two of his three full years in SF injured, which cost them any chance at the playoffs those years. Goff didn't have that issue.

Even without the injuries most Niner fans wanted to upgrade.

This is a baseless claim. You can't divorce the injuries from the decision. I don't recall a lot of 49ers fans wanting Garoppolo gone after 2019. Would they still be moving forward with Jimmy G. if he had been healthy each of the past three years? I bet yes.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I pointed out the same issue with Goff. He needed to learn to take a sack and live to play another down. Later in the season, he finally started doing that and protecting the ball (mostly). But if you and I knew that was a problem, McVay knew that was a problem, right? This goes back to my point about a play caller needing to know his QB's weaknesses and do his best to cover them. That's why I've strongly disagreed with the people who aren't willing to put any blame on McVay for our offense's issues in certain games last year. McVay shouldn't escape criticism just because Goff screwed up too. Both were at fault. And both deserved credit when things went well. I can only hope that McVay and Stafford proves to be a better pairing.

Maybe we are arguing about two different things. If all you are saying is you don’t like when people blame Goff and not McVay then thats it’s a useless argument. Because none of us truly knows how much McVay did to help Goff develop. You weren’t in on the conversations. McVay seems like a damn good coach to me.

What it really sounds like is that you are trying to blame McVay more than you are Goff.

 

[PhillyRam]

Obviously McVay made Goff a very rich man, but my only concern is will McVay be a guy that is such a perfectionist it burns him out and this was a symptom of that.

What if Stafford is better, but still does not satisfy McVay because maybe he forces more passes, thus critical turnovers still limit the potential of "the offense"?

And that too frustrates McVay after a few yrs and he rushes into another big deal trying to find that perfect fit for his offense? While admirable, that can also be a negative if he blows up "the plan" constantly in search of his perfect QB.

 

[jrry32]

Maybe we are arguing about two different things. If all you are saying is you don’t like when people blame Goff and not McVay then thats it’s a useless argument. Because none of us truly knows how much McVay did to help Goff develop. You weren’t in on the conversations. McVay seems like a damn good coach to me.

What it really sounds like is that you are trying to blame McVay more than you are Goff.

I recommend not reading between the lines. What I am saying is that McVay shouldn't be exonerated from blame when Goff struggled. Goff has his issues and is at fault for not doing better. But part of McVay's job is to mask those issues. McVay isn't at fault when Goff flatly does stupid things, like the INT against Seattle or the fumble against SF when he scrambled. But he does share the blame when his game plan walks Goff into situations where the defense can capitalize on his weaknesses.

The first half against Miami is an example of that. Goff is at fault for not giving up on plays doomed from the start and ultimately turning it over. McVay is at fault for calling plays that were doomed at the start and putting his QB in a bad spot. I'm simply tired of people recognizing the ways in which McVay helped Goff to succeed but failing to recognize when he put Goff in bad spots. Both guys deserve credit. Both guys deserve blame. Some people recognize that and are fair about it. Others were not so good about it and preferred to blame Goff whenever things went wrong. In their minds, McVay was the genius propping him up when things went well over the past two years and Goff was the idiot ruining McVay's brilliant scheming and plans when things went poorly.

 

[jrry32]

This is a baseless claim. You can't divorce the injuries from the decision. I don't recall a lot of 49ers fans wanting Garoppolo gone after 2019. Would they still be moving forward with Jimmy G. if he had been healthy each of the past three years? I bet yes.

And yes, Frantik, I realize that my speculation here is just as baseless. It's impossible to know where people would stand on Jimmy if he were winning games for SF, leading them to the playoffs, and not always hurt.

 

[Giles]

Maybe we are arguing about two different things. If all you are saying is you don’t like when people blame Goff and not McVay then thats it’s a useless argument. Because none of us truly knows how much McVay did to help Goff develop. You weren’t in on the conversations. McVay seems like a damn good coach to me.

What it really sounds like is that you are trying to blame McVay more than you are Goff.

You mean how you're trying to blame goff more than mcvay? I hate to break it to you but both are equally responsible for what happened to the offense.

 

[FrantikRam]

The best advice I have is if you can't understand where people are coming from, make an attempt. If you still can't, sit out the conversation. Because it won't lead anywhere productive.



You weren't around for the Kurt Warner debates, then.



And spent the vast majority of two of his three full years in SF injured, which cost them any chance at the playoffs those years. Goff didn't have that issue.



This is a baseless claim. You can't divorce the injuries from the decision. I don't recall a lot of 49ers fans wanting Garoppolo gone after 2019. Would they still be moving forward with Jimmy G. if he had been healthy each of the past three years? I bet yes.

For Kurt, he never had a statistically poor full season like Goff did. The outrage by Rams fans made sense there as he was a two time MVP.

I was hyperbolic in talking about Jimmy, but the point I was trying to make was that he and Goff are the same caliber QB when healthy, and Niner fans that I've interacted with at various sites have never spoken very highly of him. Even when assuming health, I've only seen them refer to him as an average and replaceable QB. It's still a baseless claim, but my experience nonetheless.

When I say I can't understand it - I mean I can - I've been an NBA fan for most of my life, and it's very common to be a fan of a player. Its hard to see how that happens for football, but the only logical conclusion for the divisiveness here is that some hold the Rams and Goff as equals in terms of fandom.

 

[dieterbrock]

For Kurt, he never had a statistically poor full season like Goff did. The outrage by Rams fans made sense there as he was a two time MVP.

Well, he only played 2 full seasons, so that's kind of weak stance. He had 17 turnovers in his last 7 games, with only 3 TD, which is mind numbing. Prior to that, he had 48 turnovers in 27 games. Sure they scored a ton of TD in spite of that, but still, his INT % was double than that of Goff

 

[GoodBadUgly]

 

[OldSchool]

Well, he only played 2 full seasons, so that's kind of weak stance. He had 17 turnovers in his last 7 games, with only 3 TD, which is mind numbing. Prior to that, he had 48 turnovers in 27 games. Sure they scored a ton of TD in spite of that, but still, his INT % was double than that of Goff

Funny how people forget those things about Warner. He was an all time great for the Rams without a doubt. But wasn't without flaws. People also talk about him getting hit a lot and getting beat up and he was sacked just a little a bit more than Jared was.

 

[FrantikRam]

Well, he only played 2 full seasons, so that's kind of weak stance. He had 17 turnovers in his last 7 games, with only 3 TD, which is mind numbing. Prior to that, he had 48 turnovers in 27 games. Sure they scored a ton of TD in spite of that, but still, his INT % was double than that of Goff

He was better than Goff by quite a bit in those two full seasons though - don't get me wrong, I had no problem moving on from Warner just like no problem moving on from Goff. I can just see Rams fans being more upset as Kurt was a two time MVP, and significantly better than Goff.

For me it was the same - but I can see fans being more upset about letting the Super Bowl MVP go