Should we make a trade?

[payote75]

Oh… I cherry picked one game from last year to compare to the only game against the opponent this year to show that “always” narratives are wrong?

SHOCKER.

Again sum of all parts. I'm also speaking of other wideouts as well. Anyone can have a semi off day and we would have to go back to see those plays maybe Ramsey wasn't on him in one or both. Also he did it in what 5 receptions? It happens I'm with you on that but it's happening to much right now and it's showing up bigtime that's all.

 

[Kupped]

Again sum of all parts. I'm also speaking of other wideouts as well. Anyone can have a semi off day and we would have to go back to see those plays maybe Ramsey wasn't on him in one or both. Also he did it in what 5 receptions? It happens I'm with you on that but it's happening to much right now and it's showing up bigtime that's all.

Sum of parts?
You mean like a defense that lost 3 starters and two high rotation players?
Those kinds of parts?

Are we pretending this defense wouldn’t look different with those players in the fold?

 

[payote75]

Sum of parts?
You mean like a defense that lost 3 starters and two high rotation players?
Those kinds of parts?

Are we pretending this defense wouldn’t look different with those players in the fold?

I mentioned them several times and although that's not the discussion with those losses we knew they wouldn't be a number one defense unless something magical happened but top 5? Top 10? Top 15 even? Really all we need RT? There is still time to improve so that's the bright side but I said in numerous posts JJ was a favourite of mine but he and Hill were not Ronnie Lott and Darly Green. Ebukam Brockers and Fox. So yea everyone saw a downturn coming just as of now not falling off a cliff that said losing them still doesn't change Ramsey not shadowing top flight receivers primarily especially at 20 mill a year.

 

[Kupped]

I mentioned them several times and although that's not the discussion with those losses we knew they wouldn't be a number one defense unless something magical happened but top 5? Top 10? Top 15 even? Really all we need RT? There is still time to improve so that's the bright side but I said in numerous posts JJ was a favourite of mine but he and Hill were not Ronnie Lott and Darly Green. Ebukam Brockers and Fox. So yea everyone saw a downturn coming just as of now not falling off a cliff that said losing them still doesn't change Ramsey not shadowing top flight receivers primarily especially at 20 mill a year.

But it does address what happens when he's not following them.. which happened last year (not as often, for sure), but when he wasn't on the other teams' number one, shit didn't fall apart.

Take a look at Cleveland/Chargers today to show you what a year of tape against a scheme means as well.

It doesn't take a ton for a team to fall off on defense, and it's not just scheme.
The good news? Is this defense is making enough plays for them to be 4-1 and have a chance to keep growing and improving.
Young players will need to get better and Morris will as well.
Moving Rochelle in and Long into the slot shows me already that he's not inflexible or hard headed.

The over-simplification of... "but Ramsey" is just nonsense. If you had him on Hopkins all Cards game... Green is still lighting long up.. same with Crosby.

It's a team game. All parts of it on defense need to do better.

 

[payote75]

But it does address what happens when he's not following them.. which happened last year (not as often, for sure), but when he wasn't on the other teams' number one, shit didn't fall apart.

Take a look at Cleveland/Chargers today to show you what a year of tape against a scheme means as well.

It doesn't take a ton for a team to fall off on defense, and it's not just scheme.
The good news? Is this defense is making enough plays for them to be 4-1 and have a chance to keep growing and improving.
Young players will need to get better and Morris will as well.
Moving Rochelle in and Long into the slot shows me already that he's not inflexible or hard headed.

The over-simplification of... "but Ramsey" is just nonsense. If you had him on Hopkins all Cards game... Green is still lighting long up.. same with Crosby.

It's a team game. All parts of it on defense need to do better.

No some of that is accurate but DWill is on the other side. No matter how we flip this discussion it's almost a moot point wether Ramsey is being used right or not may be debatable. However if the times your doing it or over using it it still hurts the defense. I think most of us would be happy if we were in top 10 but not the case.

Ramsey was all Pro last year for a reason look at all the matchups he faced did anyone even have a 100 yd game on him?

As far as getting us to 4-1 I'm good with that but remember the turnovers for us to win like this you need basically turnover free ball or force more than you give. The one game where we uncharacteristically turned it over we got crushed. So we can't play on a wing and a prayer in the playoffs. There is a lot invested in this season and I for one am not ok with it got us to 16-1 but then we one and done in playoffs because we turned the ball over once and our defense was ineffective. All I'm saying is Id like some stability. You need to ay to your strengths and Ramsey playing this "star" role more or at the wrong times obviously isn't a strength.
Hopkins= Ramsey
Green= DWill
Kirk(whomever)= 3rd guy or new guy

Same thing with shithawks. Now a lesser team with not as much depth fine do your Ramsey thing but take away other yes weapons when you have the answer!

And your right it is a team game dude I said that as well and again it's sum of all parts but use the parts where they best served til you have a better plan no?

 

[Kupped]

No some of that is accurate but DWill is on the other side. No matter how we flip this discussion it's almost a moot point wether Ramsey is being used right or not may be debatable. However if the times your doing it or over using it it still hurts the defense. I think most of us would be happy if we were in top 10 but not the case.

Ramsey was all Pro last year for a reason look at all the matchups he faced did anyone even have a 100 yd game on him?

As far as getting us to 4-1 I'm good with that but remember the turnovers for us to win like this you need basically turnover free ball or force more than you give. The one game where we uncharacteristically turned it over we got crushed. So we can't play on a wing and a prayer in the playoffs. There is a lot invested in this season and I for one am not ok with it got us to 16-1 but then we one and done in playoffs because we turned the ball over once and our defense was ineffective. All I'm saying is Id like some stability. You need to ay to your strengths and Ramsey playing this "star" role more or at the wrong times obviously isn't a strength.
Hopkins= Ramsey
Green= DWill
Kirk(whomever)= 3rd guy or new guy

Same thing with shithawks. Now a lesser team with not as much depth fine do your Ramsey thing but take away other yes weapons when you have the answer!

I think pinning the Rams defensive performance on Ramsey playing the star a lot is beyond silly. Beyond.
Key Rams turnover this week was Ramsey tipping a ball when he was in the star role.. or, at least, not in coverage on Metcalf.
Lockett burned the shit out of Rochelle and Williams... got lucky on an overthrow when Williams was burned.

Execute better. Everyone.

The entire defense was better last year and there are many factors involved.

Ramsey playing the star a lot more is the least of it.

 

[payote75]

I think pinning the Rams defensive performance on Ramsey playing the star a lot is beyond silly. Beyond.
Key Rams turnover this week was Ramsey tipping a ball when he was in the star role.. or, at least, not in coverage on Metcalf.
Lockett burned the shit out of Rochelle and Williams... got lucky on an overthrow when Williams was burned.

Execute better. Everyone.

The entire defense was better last year and there are many factors involved.

Ramsey playing the star a lot more is the least of it.

Lol I've said all that bro. I'm not blaming the entire fiasco on the Ramsey role. However if your struggling in coverage than don't take from Peter to give to Paul. Let him at least take half the field away then you can double if DWill all the sudden is struggling or not the player he was last year etc. Do you think DWill is not good anymore or not the same? Ramsey role isn't the sole reason the defense is struggling but it's one of the issues. There is time to improve and or acquire some help. All we need to be ok is to get the defense into the top 10. 10 would be wonderful I will even take 12 lol.

 

[Kupped]

Lol I've said all that bro. I'm not blaming the entire fiasco on the Ramsey role. However if your struggling in coverage than don't take from Peter to give to Paul. Let him at least take half the field away then you can double if DWill all the sudden is struggling or not the player he was last year etc. Do you think DWill is not good anymore or not the same? Ramsey role isn't the sole reason the defense is struggling but it's one of the issues. There is time to improve and or acquire some help. All we need to be ok is to get the defense into the top 10. 10 would be wonderful I will even take 12 lol.

Well, he doesn't take "half the field away".. that's bad sports announcing at its worst.
He takes away one of up to 5 targets and you can plan your scheme away from him easily.
That's the point of the star, combined with the post snap coverage moves... you don't give the defense the chance to get comfortable or know where he is.
Again.. look at the int he created against Seattle.
He is making plays in the star role.

And.. if you want to double whomever is then on AJ Green.. who's the one guy who really destroyed the Rams coverage by himself this season.. then you're giving up numbers to Kirk, Edmonds and Moore.
Good luck with that.

Ramsey is fine in his role.. get Rochelle up to speed and the safeties to actually make plays and the top 10 D you want will arrive.

 

[payote75]

Well, he doesn't take "half the field away".. that's bad sports announcing at its worst.
He takes away one of up to 5 targets and you can plan your scheme away from him easily.
That's the point of the star, combined with the post snap coverage moves... you don't give the defense the chance to get comfortable or know where he is.
Again.. look at the int he created against Seattle.
He is making plays in the star role.

And.. if you want to double whomever is then on AJ Green.. who's the one guy who really destroyed the Rams coverage by himself this season.. then you're giving up numbers to Kirk, Edmonds and Moore.
Good luck with that.

Ramsey is fine in his role.. get Rochelle up to speed and the safeties to actually make plays and the top 10 D you want will arrive.

He does take away half the field it's not only announcers it's his fellow peers that use the same expression. I don't want to do anything I just want to use our 20 million dollar corner for what he does best most of the time. Or take the 20 million and and get a decent corner and an excellent safety. Might as well play AD at linebacker too while we are at it he is athletic too and his size almost on par.

Again we can keep going back and forth on this bottom line defense needs to be better period! However that's achieved then hope it gets done.

 

[Kupped]

He does take away half the field it's not only announcers it's his fellow peers that use the same expression. I don't want to do anything I just want to use our 20 million dollar corner for what he does best most of the time. Or take the 20 million and and get a decent corner and an excellent safety. Might as well play AD at linebacker too while we are at it he is athletic too and his size almost on par.

Again we can keep going back and forth on this bottom line defense needs to be better period! However that's achieved then hope it gets done.

No.
It’s a cliche.

Do they line Donald up at the same spot every snap?

Again.. the key INT in the game was created, in part, by moving Ramsey around.

You’re not allowing a D to consistently scheme away from him,

 

[payote75]

No.
It’s a cliche.

Do they line Donald up at the same spot every snap?

Again.. the key INT in the game was created, in part, by moving Ramsey around.

You’re not allowing a D to consistently scheme away from him,

Great well said and it's working wonderfully. He didn't seem to have any problems last year or really at anytime in his career no need to reinvent the wheel but if you must don't over do it. That's really the gist.

 

[Kupped]

Great well said and it's working wonderfully. He didn't seem to have any problems last year or really at anytime in his career no need to reinvent the wheel but if you must don't over do it. That's really the gist.

Here's the thing... the Rams defense isn't as good as last year, we can all see that.
A full, comprehensive look at what's going on is how I choose to view it.

When you say things like "no need to reinvent the wheel" when we have a defense that is essentially the same as last season, they're just using Ramsey *more* in the Star than last year, it shows a lack of interest in discussing things in an honest manner.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

As of now they have 10 picks in this upcoming draft. Granted 5 are in rds 6 & 7, but they still have 4 picks in the first four rds as well. So they have picks and any trade would be for a vet worth about a 5th or 6th.

I’d rather they hold onto most of those picks. This next draft is going to be deep.

Right but you cherry picked your facts so what you say is not the sum of all parts. It's not a good way to hold a conversation/debate. Bottom line is these all world receivers were ineffective for the most part against ramsey and the rams in general. The problem may not be how Ramsey is being deployed (although I consider that as part of the issue) in this role but could be when. Hopkins Metcalf, Lockett were basically non factors the only dude that was a thorn in our side was bozo/Deebo.

It’s hard to explain but the fundamental difference between what Staley did and what Morris is doing is that Staley was more about filling the field to clog passing lanes. While Morris seems to be overly concerned about stopping the run. This isn’t 2000 and Staley’s scheme still stopped the run. DBs weren’t so far back that they were too late to help in run support. The Rams did not get gashed by the run at all last season.

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

 

[payote75]

Here's the thing... the Rams defense isn't as good as last year, we can all see that.
A full, comprehensive look at what's going on is how I choose to view it.

When you say things like "no need to reinvent the wheel" when we have a defense that is essentially the same as last season, they're just using Ramsey *more* in the Star than last year, it shows a lack of interest in discussing things in an honest manner.

Absolutely not at all! I'm not the one that instead of getting all Metcalf's games up cherry picked the one that he had 5 catches 98yds? And 2 TDs.....I understand why you did it but it really didn't serve a purpose that's not making it a conversation that's just someone trying to hammer their point home by picking and choosing facts that help there p.o.v.

I understand we both want the same thing but I said multiple times I do think some of this Ramsey thing is to blame wether it's the role itself or when it's being used(timing). I understand that is not the sole factor here but I do think it makes a difference and it is the coordinators job as well as the head coach to figure it out. That said I know we have time so I'm hoping we can move up all I ask with the personnel losses is at least move into the top 10 I will even take 12 lol.

And I could give you all the games Ramsey played last year and you can see all the stats Vs guys he played but I think you know your stuff and know that already.

I do believe and understand the safety play is another point of contention as is more missed tackles but again the personnel is what it is but missed tackles also a part of coaching. Let's give it time and let's see if maybe we make an acquisition or two or maybe just hit our stride but November is coming fast.

 

[Riverumbbq]

It would be difficult to say no to a Myles Jack trade with Jacksonville, ... I'd be in for it, although Jack would require finding some additional CAP dollars. Same might be said for the Jets and Jarrad Davis, except that he is affordable right now. Both players are expected to come off their injuries and be available for their next game.

Separating CB Mike Hughes from Kansas City would be tough, although he's another candidate for free agency following this season, as is Philadephia's Avonte Maddox.

As it stands now, we could afford any of the TWO above NOT named Myles Jack.

 

[Malibu]

With Havenstein redoing his deal, Kenny Young being shipped off for a paulty extra round upgrade in 2024 what is Les up to.

I am already scared for our Run D and trading Young makes the worst area of our team even weaker. Jones is not ready or the answer imo now.

For me we don't need any offense upgrade. RB is thin but hopefully we can get by.

So for me it needs to be on the defense maybe an upgrade ILB, OLB, CB.

I look at the teams who will be in the playoffs. Based on that premise I think CB or how can we really upgrade the Run D?

As of now we have 4.5m to spend as I understand we could redo Stafford's contract but for who?

 

[Merlin]

Safety makes the most sense to me.

Which means McVay will go after an offensive weapon.

 

[André]

I think we would be looking for help in our secondary. But I wouldn't be surprised if we were looking for a thumper on the middle either.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Safety, or maybe CB

 

[wmc540]

Calvin Johnson