Pick #57 - Rams select WR Tutu Atwell

View: https://twitter.com/ramsnfl/status/1388297996547223553?s=21

 

[RamFan503]

Let's move on from this garbage. Discuss the pick, not other members or how they are attacking you. That goes for everyone. I will block anyone from this thread that continues down this road.

I think it is pretty obvious that we are all going largely on assumptions, theory, and opinion.

We should not be either asserting we know without backing it up and we shouldn't ask for proof to verify opinions or theories.

Bottom line is that this side journey has got to stop. ALWAYS remember our mantra and that is to act like you are shooting the shit with friends over a couple beers.

 

[Psycho_X]

Bottom line is that this side journey has got to stop. ALWAYS remember our mantra and that is to act like you are shooting the shit with friends over a couple beers.

 

[Tano]

Let's move on from this garbage. Discuss the pick, not other members or how they are attacking you. That goes for everyone. I will block anyone from this thread that continues down this road.

I think it is pretty obvious that we are all going largely on assumptions, theory, and opinion.

We should not be either asserting we know without backing it up and we shouldn't ask for proof to verify opinions or theories.

Bottom line is that this side journey has got to stop. ALWAYS remember our mantra and that is to act like you are shooting the shit with friends over a couple beers.

And then the bar fight starts

 

[badnews]

He really looks like a natural deep threat and the more I look the more I see impressive awareness and concentration through tough catches in traffic and with contact.

 

[jrry32]

Honestly, are you projecting? Before the senior bowl, Eskridge was a mid-round pick at best. Atwell was better regarded until news of his combine-weight got released. Note, most players lose weight when they train to be a track athlete for the combine. That said, like many here, I hope Atwell can survive through his first contract. If so, I believe we may have struck gold

Was Eskridge a mid-round pick at best? The media rankings aren't the same as team's rankings. The media rankings tend to start off very inaccurate and get better as the draft nears as teams leak more information. Eskridge was very dominant this year before the Senior Bowl. I'd bet teams had him ranked quite a bit higher than that.

 

[OldSchool]

Was Eskridge a mid-round pick at best? The media rankings aren't the same as team's rankings. The media rankings tend to start off very inaccurate and get better as the draft nears as teams leak more information. Eskridge was very dominant this year before the Senior Bowl. I'd bet teams had him ranked quite a bit higher than that.

In one thread we've had somebody cite that Atwell was better than we think because a media member had him as a 1st round pick in a mock. And we've had people say Eskridge isn't as good as Atwell because media had him as a mid round pick at one time. Oh well guess it's time to drop this thread, nothing new here.

 

[Tano]

In one thread we've had somebody cite that Atwell was better than we think because a media member had him as a 1st round pick in a mock. And we've had people say Eskridge isn't as good as Atwell because media had him as a mid round pick at one time. Oh well guess it's time to drop this thread, nothing new here.

 

[XXXIVwin]

 

[majrleaged]

Could be accurate but still seems like a bunch of guesses to form an article. I don't doubt the Rams were trying to move the pick or at least working the phones to play all angles. In the end, IMO, they had the guy they wanted at that spot and took him.

It would be crazy to assume that most GMs don't work the phone lines up to the time to make their selection.

I don't know what happened and I have my reservations on the pick. But my real disagreement was that them taking the entire time allotment to really mean much.

Doesnt matter to me really. We have Atwell and I'm sure most of us hope he was the right pick given the situation

You know it is possible that the Rams thought Tutu was the best receiver for the team at that spot, but still had an eye for a better player or a higher need at another position. It didn't happen so they got the receiver they wanted. No big deal. That's the whole point of preparing for the draft. So you can adjust.

 

[Mackeyser]

How short is too short to be a deep threat?

Most are 5'11" or taller, but still Plenty of deep threats at 5'10".

But 5'9" (actually 5'8 and 7/8) is really pushing it.

I know the weight is an issue, but the height is, also.

It was sad to see that late in Tavon's career, he just wasn't a deep threat.

Tutu is clearly a threat after the ball is in his hands-- jet sweeps, slants, crossing patterns, etc. But will NFL defenses need to respect him on deep routes? Does he have enough size to go up for a contested ball? Or is the bomb only going to work if he's wide open? Looks like he tracks the ball well in the air, which is huge. But NFL DB's are gonna stick close by him, he's gonna have to prove he can fight for a jump ball.

No he won't.

A) McVay will scheme him open. Expecting Tutu to be a 50/50 type receiver would be professional coaching malpractice.

B) Tavon Austin doesn't have 1/10th the deep ball tracking skills that Tutu has. It's not close. On deep balls, I saw a stat where the QB rating for his deep pass receptions was like 128 with ZERO drops. This is a bit of a weird stat because Tavon was really solid on both catching punts and kickoffs. That said, those were fully facing the ball. Tracking the ball moving away from the LOS was more problematic.

C) Tutu is a MUCH more developed receiver than Austin ever was. Why didn't Austin work out for McVay? Well... as much as I like Tavon Austin...and I really do (I lost my shit when we drafted him, I was so excited), he's, to put it kindly, not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Much like the EP offensive derivations, the Shanahan/McVay WCO variants require a much more heady level of play with respect to option routes and whatnot. Tutu is a legit deep threat receiver. Tavon Austin was a small/fast RB used as a hybrid. Even on his college team, Stedman Bailey was a FAR more developed receiver and it showed in his stats.

The NFL has always been enamored with gadget players and Percy Harvin made people think that someone like him could change a franchise's fortune. It's never happened. Percy didn't do it, Tavon Austin didn't do it, Devin Hester didn't do it, Cordarelle Patterson didn't do it, and Dante Hall didn't do it. None were legit receivers and that played out in the NFL.

Tutu is absolutely a legit NFL receiver.

Will he get injured? I dunno. Sean Lee was a stud linebacker...built like a linebacker... and his ass was CONSTANTLY injured.

I wouldn't line up Tutu as a bellcow RB, but as a slot/4th WR, he's gonna make some backup DB/LBs look FOOLISH.

 

[kurtfaulk]

The NFL has always been enamored with gadget players and Percy Harvin made people think that someone like him could change a franchise's fortune. It's never happened. Percy didn't do it, Tavon Austin didn't do it, Devin Hester didn't do it, Cordarelle Patterson didn't do it, and Dante Hall didn't do it. None were legit receivers and that played out in the NFL.

So I'm guessing you think toney won't do it for the giants?

.

 

[Mackeyser]

What a weird stance to take. It’s not like his name is Dickandballs. Whatever. To each their own I guess.

Hey, if Deacon Balls can go 80 for 1265 and 10 TDs, I'll say his name LOUD AND CLEAR!!!

 

[Mackeyser]

So I'm guessing you think toney won't do it for the giants?

.

I'm beyond over gadget players.

The only "gadget" player I'm still down with is the situational pass rusher.

Pretty much every other gadget type player is a waste of a roster spot, imho.

I could be convinced otherwise, but as of right now? yeah.

If Toney is that, then it don't look good for him.

 

[Mackeyser]

900 yards and 9 TDs on offense? Well yeah, that would be wonderful for any rookie WR.

The more I think about ways McVay will use this kid the more I like it. As long as Djax and Tutu can stay healthy this offense is going to be so damn fun to watch.

My only worry is that McVay early in the season will really light a few teams up and all the quick scores will put the D on the field a LOT.

One of the side effects of tightening up the O that I liked (maybe the only thing) was that it chewed up clock and didn't let other explosive teams get into a rhythm.

That said, there's a peace in knowing you can score from anywhere. The 2018 team was like that and the GSOT teams were def like that.

 

[Mackeyser]

Rams will be able to run three wr sets with a great rotation of players at all positions. But I expect some exotic formations too. As someone said in a different context, McVay is probably locked away somewhere channeling his inner Mike Martz and drawing up plays with 4 or 5 receivers and no blockers.

He's also gonna bring in some stuff they ran with success in Detroit that many of us have never seen.

Also, as inventive as McVay is, Martz was more prolific with plays than James Patterson is with books (seems like dude writes a book a week).

Martz was so prolific, he on more than one occasion had an ENTIRELY NEW PLAYBOOK for the offense... which is yet another reason why I KNOW with the certainty of gravity that the Pats cheated in SB 36.

McVay is BY FAR a better HC, but no one in the history of the league was more prolific with play generation than Martz...ever.

Also, that's the ONLY type of praise you'll get from me about Martz... I'm NOT a fan.

 

[XXXIVwin]

No he won't.

A) McVay will scheme him open. Expecting Tutu to be a 50/50 type receiver would be professional coaching malpractice.

B) Tavon Austin doesn't have 1/10th the deep ball tracking skills that Tutu has. It's not close. On deep balls, I saw a stat where the QB rating for his deep pass receptions was like 128 with ZERO drops. This is a bit of a weird stat because Tavon was really solid on both catching punts and kickoffs. That said, those were fully facing the ball. Tracking the ball moving away from the LOS was more problematic.

C) Tutu is a MUCH more developed receiver than Austin ever was. Why didn't Austin work out for McVay? Well... as much as I like Tavon Austin...and I really do (I lost my shit when we drafted him, I was so excited), he's, to put it kindly, not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Much like the EP offensive derivations, the Shanahan/McVay WCO variants require a much more heady level of play with respect to option routes and whatnot. Tutu is a legit deep threat receiver. Tavon Austin was a small/fast RB used as a hybrid. Even on his college team, Stedman Bailey was a FAR more developed receiver and it showed in his stats.

The NFL has always been enamored with gadget players and Percy Harvin made people think that someone like him could change a franchise's fortune. It's never happened. Percy didn't do it, Tavon Austin didn't do it, Devin Hester didn't do it, Cordarelle Patterson didn't do it, and Dante Hall didn't do it. None were legit receivers and that played out in the NFL.

Tutu is absolutely a legit NFL receiver.

Will he get injured? I dunno. Sean Lee was a stud linebacker...built like a linebacker... and his ass was CONSTANTLY injured.

I wouldn't line up Tutu as a bellcow RB, but as a slot/4th WR, he's gonna make some backup DB/LBs look FOOLISH.

Yeah, I agree (and said as much in this thread) that compared to Tavon, Tutu is a better receiver, with better ball tracking skills, better football IQ, and better hands.

I just wonder where the line is at "too short and too small."

Could a receiver be a consistent success in today's NFL at 5'5"? No, physically impossible. 5'6"? Doubtful. 5'7"? Doubtful, but who knows?

My only point is, McVay is challenging the conventional wisdom by investing heavily in a WR who is a hair under 5'9" and 155 pounds. I love McVay and sure hope he's right about Tutu, but it seems reasonable to suggest that Tutu's height/weight profile means he is somewhat of a risk.

 

[Mackeyser]

Yeah I mean What I’m getting at is Sean McVay surely uses data analytics as does your local convenient store. It’s not like McVay has some magical query or way to collect data, he has what everyone has. It’s just a piece of what he does, he’s also a damn good talent evaluator and damn good at applying the aforementioned data.

I keep reading comments that seem as if they think “analytics” are something unique to McVay and that they are his magical formula. “ we woulda never made this pick if McVay didn’t have his analytics” is the same as “we woulda never made this pick if the rams didn’t have scouts”.

Yeah, everyone uses analytics, but some are MUCH farther along than others.

The Rams are at the vanguard in this respect.

 

[Mackeyser]

His size bothers a lot of people. His height and weight both. I did read that he tends to avoid contact. Ducking underneath tacklers to avoid the big hits. Going out of bounds. Which is probably a good thing. It can keep him on the field longer. As far as being a small target, I don't think that should be an issue. Steve Smith was about an inch taller and had a very good career. He was more stout than Atwell. I don't think Atwell will ever be the kind of receiver Smith was. He won't get as many snaps. He'll be the guy who gets in certain packages. McVay will try to get him the ball in space.

a) as much as Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt had miles of YAC, they also frustrated defenders by getting down or running out of bounds to avoid the big hit... and this was during that fucked up "Jacked UP" time. "Live for another down" was a mantra... even as Martz was leaving Warner to get hammered.

b) also, Tutu is 160 and should only be gaining weight prior to the season. All this stuff about 155 or lower is in the past. As of now he's up to 160 and I would be surprised if he's less than 165 at the start of pre-season.

 

[Mackeyser]

The problem I have with the notion that the rams were not willing to trade downbecause they could loose atwell is that they used every second of the clock

That's a terrible metric to base an opinion on.

There are umpteen reasons why a team might use the entire time.

 

[Mackeyser]

What is wrong with hypothesis. The board is

This started with the following reports.

1. Rams told Atwell they would not fall out of the second
2. Rams feared trading down because they got wind of another team going to select him
3. Rams tried to trade up for some mystery player.

1. and 3. cannot both be true. If Rams had traded up from #57 they would not have the capital to later trade back into the second let alone a spot guaranteeing them Atwell.

So obviously these are not facts but conjectures. I said everyone gets to play the game.

absolutely not true.

1) indicates their intent.

2) indicates intel which guided their decision. They didn't just fear it, they had intel that a specific team wanted him. Whether that intel was ultimately true isn't the point. That intel was a factor in deciding to not trade down.

3) We KNOW that teams valued their 2022 draft picks SO HIGHLY that almost none were traded. The 2021 draft class had over 600 players in it, down nearly 2/3rds over normal years and with the super senior COVID compensation, in 2022 there will be over 2200 players in that draft... which essentially turns the draft into giant 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds with a partial 4th. That means that the Rams EASILY could have traded up using 2022 draft picks if they were so inclined. EVERYONE who had 2022 picks had ammo. Not saying a 2022 6th rounder would get you a 1st in 2021, but a 2nd next year would EASILY get you a 2nd this year.

We don't know who the trade up would have been for and it's moot now, but yeah... much like manipulating the cap, the current draft circumstances made moving up this year a much easier task than in normal years ESPECIALLY if a team were inclined to use 2022 picks (almost none were).