Pick #57 - Rams select WR Tutu Atwell

View: https://twitter.com/ramsnfl/status/1388297996547223553?s=21

 

[Florida_Ram]

Knock off the passive aggressive bullshit. If you need clarity on this, feel free to PM a moderator.

passive aggressive message board posters....

What is this all about?

All I know is the Rams are a top 4 favored SB contender.

The last time they were respected this much by Vegas was at the beginning of the 2018 regular season.

We are all getting a little bit testy and ready to see this years squad take the field.

Go 2021 LA Rams!!!

 

[NJRamsFan]

No sources beyond me seeing some language tidbits which are clues to a deeper engagement with the data than other clubs.

As in, rather than just aggregate and use the Next Gen Stats as factors, the Rams went further and utilized the NGS as well as combine and other factors to CREATE a metric based on what THEY specifically want to see.

So, the Rams went with Tutu because based on their deeper understanding of not just what but HOW they want to deploy speed in their offense, Tutu was the fastest guy in the draft.

Many teams utilize data aggregation from sources like NGS, SPARQ and others. Teams will then apply varying degrees of processing to come up with hopefully a greater insight into which players may be a better match for them.

However, the Rams have taken the raw data and specifically created new evaluation metrics based on their specifically tailored requirements. The process of quantifying their requirements based on scheme, and then applying the aggregated data is a substantially deeper and better application of the data than to just use deeper levels of abstraction as if that creates a deeper understanding of how Player A would help the team as opposed to Players B-Z.

That's just one example I can recall off the top of my head.

McVay is positively LEAKY when it comes to dropping hints about how the Rams utilize and customize the data for their specific needs. I don't think he nor most fans/media have the slightest clue how often he drops nuggets about how deeply the Rams engage statistical analysis for not just the draft, but to evaluate each player for each practice and each game. He's not seen as such because he a) couches his revelations in coach speak and b) most folks don't listen for it or even understand it.

I mean, just the fact that they quantify how much a player works (it's so much more than just "measuring steps" or "distance traveled") in practice and will pull a player so as to remove overwork as a factor to reduce soft tissue injuries is another way that they're engaging the data on a deeper level than others. I've never heard of another team pulling a player from practice because they're not only measuring the output of the player during practice, but also have developed a baseline AND correlated that to game output to understand on a personal level how best to optimize practice and training to obtain optimal results on game day.

The level of integration between data and our Training Dept is another. Reggie Scott has such a data driven department that it often confuses rookies and those new to the org because they've never seen anything like it. But the results from Reggie Scott and crew are the best in the league most years by a far cry and in measurable ways.

Anyway, yeah, based on info from the Rams both direct and indirect, it's clear that the Rams engage analytics more than other teams. That's changing as teams have noticed our success, but success isn't guaranteed by just throwing money or bodies at the equations... another reason why it will take teams years to catch up if ever... at least under McVay.

I hear ya Mack I’m just confused behind the reasoning. I find it mind blowing to be frank. The data is available to everyone and a college junior could write ya query to analyze it. The fact that other organizations of this magnitude (NFL teams) are choosing to be left behind is just insane to me. Do they not see the trend?

I thought the 03 Oakland moneyball athletics brought attention to data analytics in sports not the McVay rams

 

[Neil039]

The guy has a ton of size questions without a doubt. But beyond that to call him a gadget player baffles me. He is almost unstoppable when he gets a free release. In fact I wonder what he would have done with a really good QB throwing to him.

Good thing is we're about to find that out.

I hear what what you’re saying. Just looking at McVays history with guys and a gadget plays.

Although, I like your point that we are about to find out! Honestly I hope I’m 100% wrong about the guy. That’s a crap sandwich worth eating.

 

[XXXIVwin]

I keep seeing this as generally accepted knowledge and I’ve seen mentions to the rams investing in their data analytics but never saying they are much further along than the rest of the NFL. Do you have any sources ?

Jourdan Rodrigue (from the Athletic) is a source who confirms the Rams use analytics more than most NFL teams.

Rodrigue recommends following Sara Bailey on Twitter. Bailey has a senior position with the "Nerds Nest", the Rams analytics team.

 

[MachS]

The guy has a ton of size questions without a doubt. But beyond that to call him a gadget player baffles me. He is almost unstoppable when he gets a free release. In fact I wonder what he would have done with a really good QB throwing to him.

Good thing is we're about to find that out.

Yea exactly lol. The guy is a legit receiver. The Tavon comparisons piss me off because people haven't really watched his game if they draw that comparison. By multiple drafts reports, Tutu would've already been gone by 57 for sure if not for his pro day weigh in of 149lbs. That scared a lot of teams. Which is why it was great the day after the draft when he showed on Twitter that his weight was 160. That means by season start he should be in the 168-170 range which should make his weight a non issue. His speed will require DBs to give him a big cushion, just like DJax. Im excited to see how McVay frees him up with motion and bunch formations. We are #1 in the NFL in bunch WR formations the last three seasons so we wont allow Atwell to just line up wide alone and get jammed. McVay will free him and DJax up for sure.

 

[FarNorth]

Yea exactly lol. The guy is a legit receiver. The Tavon comparisons piss me off because people haven't really watched his game if they draw that comparison. By multiple drafts reports, Tutu would've already been gone by 57 for sure if not for his pro day weigh in of 149lbs. That scared a lot of teams. Which is why it was great the day after the draft when he showed on Twitter that his weight was 160. That means by season start he should be in the 168-170 range which should make his weight a non issue. His speed will require DBs to give him a big cushion, just like DJax. Im excited to see how McVay frees him up with motion and bunch formations. We are #1 in the NFL in bunch WR formations the last three seasons so we wont allow Atwell to just line up wide alone and get jammed. McVay will free him and DJax up for sure.

McVay will scheme to get him good breaks off the line or on sweeps. But it also may not be so easy to jam Atwell. Supposedly he's good at avoiding it. His size and quickness should work to his advantage. And if you miss he's gone.

 

[MachS]

McVay will scheme to get him good breaks off the line or on sweeps. But it also may not be so easy to jam Atwell. Supposedly he's good at avoiding it. His size and quickness should work to his advantage. And if you miss he's gone.

Yea trying to press him is a risk for sure lol. Just like DJax, which is why he gets a ton of cushion. But elite CBs like the Ramseys of the world can do it and take them out of the game. My point was just like you said though...as he develops and sees the field more McVay will make sure he gets free somehow. Motion and sweeps for sure will be huge for him. For that same reason I'm very exicted to see how DJax is used this year too.

 

[Mackeyser]

I hear ya Mack I’m just confused behind the reasoning. I find it mind blowing to be frank. The data is available to everyone and a college junior could write ya query to analyze it. The fact that other organizations of this magnitude (NFL teams) are choosing to be left behind is just insane to me. Do they not see the trend?

I thought the 03 Oakland moneyball athletics brought attention to data analytics in sports not the McVay rams

For sure the Rams weren’t the first, but once McVay got here, he went balls deep into the data.

Every team uses at least an elementary form of analytics. However, the Rams have foregone a lot of the old ways in favor of a data driven model.

The differentiation comes from the depth.

A rudimentary analysis would get you something like a SPARQ score for players.

A deep embrace of analytics would entail quantifying cause, causal factors, correlation, symptom and effect, clearly delineate what each is, its weight, if any, THEN qualitatively applying those metrics so as to better acquire players and/or better adjust the playbook to each player’s strengths.

Basic analytics can be seen like bread prices. They have colored tabs which indicates the date baked and they are priced highest on the busiest days.

Advanced analytics would be like gas. Based on a host of factors like past sales, past sales trends, area demographics, density of stations within a set boundary (say, all stations within a 1 mile radius), etc, gas companies can dynamically change prices as the market adjusts in real time to maximize sales.

The Rams actively engage the data and their analytics allow them to dynamically engage the draft, FA as well as pregame planning and in game strategy. Some of McVays biggest upsets have been when he abandoned the data that he relied on the make his plans. We know this because he’ll articulate that based on a well articulated scenario that they clearly planned for, he didn’t obey the data and “failed to put guys in a position to succeed”

He’s getting much better, but he’s still a work in progress in this regard.

 

[FrantikRam]

People HATE to admit they're wrong. To the point that it can subconsciously make you root against a player.

Seems like we will have many posters who might be subconsciously rooting against Atwell with how many disliked the pick.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So how short is too short to be a successful NFL WR? Apparently 5'9" is still okay, judging by these highlights of the Ravens "Hollywood" Brown, who is also 5'9" (but considerably heavier than Tutu).


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WKheIIDgi_s


So how light is too light to be a successful NFL WR...?

Gotta trust that McVay is on the cutting edge of the modern NFL. The rules have changed a LOT in the last few years in terms of protecting WR's.

I wonder if Tutu adds muscle will he be as fast? I’m not sure how that works. As a leaner guy myself who lifted each winter to stay fit for landscaping and build myself up in the offseason, the heaviest I ever got was 170 lb. I’d return to my normal 155-160 by June. Putting the weight on was slow but shedding it was fast. Some body types are difficult to change.

I might be too sensitive to the size of Atwell. But as a 160 lb landscaper routinely wheeling concrete, lifting 65 lb landscape blocks, lifting seven pavers in the brick tongs daily, I definitely did not hold up as well overtime as my 6’-3” 240 lb employee. He’s in his 60’s and still going strong. It’s the size to lbs lifted ratios that didn’t work in my favor. Lifting a 65 lb block was 40% of my own weight. While it was only 27% of my friends weight. It makes a difference by the end of the season. Hopefully it doesn’t for Atwell.

 

[Allen2McVay]

… routinely wheeling concrete, lifting 65 lb landscape blocks, lifting seven pavers in the brick tongs daily, …

I pulled a muscle just reading that.

 

[RamFan503]

Yea trying to press him is a risk for sure lol. Just like DJax, which is why he gets a ton of cushion. But elite CBs like the Ramseys of the world can do it and take them out of the game. My point was just like you said though...as he develops and sees the field more McVay will make sure he gets free somehow. Motion and sweeps for sure will be huge for him. For that same reason I'm very exicted to see how DJax is used this year too.

If Atwell and DJax are able to take a teams best corner out of plays, that should result in some big plays by others. If a team has an elite CB, I can envision them using that speed quite often to neutralize him.

 

[RamFan503]

I didn’t get a chance to see that one. And I’m not doubting the rams heavily utilize these things just find it mind boggling that other multi billion dollar organizations aren’t doing the same

Someone is always going to lead the way or be on the cutting edge of the latest advance. In this case, for once, the Rams are on that cutting edge.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I wonder if Tutu adds muscle will he be as fast? I’m not sure how that works. As a leaner guy myself who lifted each winter to stay fit for landscaping and build myself up in the offseason, the heaviest I ever got was 170 lb. I’d return to my normal 155-160 by June. Putting the weight on was slow but shedding it was fast. Some body types are difficult to change.

I might be too sensitive to the size of Atwell. But as a 160 lb landscaper routinely wheeling concrete, lifting 65 lb landscape blocks, lifting seven pavers in the brick tongs daily, I definitely did not hold up as well overtime as my 6’-3” 240 lb employee. He’s in his 60’s and still going strong. It’s the size to lbs lifted ratios that didn’t work in my favor. Lifting a 65 lb block was 40% of my own weight. While it was only 27% of my friends weight. It makes a difference by the end of the season. Hopefully it doesn’t for Atwell.

There are different ways to add muscle strength, although i'm not sure how adept a football trainer would be to emphasizing alternative methods. For instance, swimmers add muscle tone and can increase speed, weight lifting is generally not part of their process. Some of the same holds true with boxers where corps strength is more important than building large muscles. Someone Tutu's size and body shape may benefit taking a non traditional approach, although i'm certainly no expert in the field, but when you are a smaller framed guy who is often under attack by multiple behemoths, it seems some tumbling expertise might pay additional dividends. jmo.

 

[Memento]

People HATE to admit they're wrong. To the point that it can subconsciously make you root against a player.

Seems like we will have many posters who might be subconsciously rooting against Atwell with how many disliked the pick.

I'd actually love to be wrong about Atwell; if he succeeds, that means that the Rams are a better team. I have skepticism for many reasons, but that doesn't mean I won't scream his name (Atwell, not his nickname, which I will not reference ever) the first time he gets a touchdown or a long gain.

 

[OldSchool]

I'd actually love to be wrong about Atwell; if he succeeds, that means that the Rams are a better team. I have skepticism for many reasons, but that doesn't mean I won't scream his name (Atwell, not his nickname, which I will not reference ever) the first time he gets a touchdown or a long gain.

People can't fathom that in spite of not liking a pick we'll still root for the player. It's like they want to create a divide on some made up garbage. He's a Ram and he wears the Horns, we'll root for him.

 

[RamFan503]

I'd actually love to be wrong about Atwell; if he succeeds, that means that the Rams are a better team. I have skepticism for many reasons, but that doesn't mean I won't scream his name (Atwell, not his nickname, which I will not reference ever) the first time he gets a touchdown or a long gain.

Are you talking about TuTu?

 

[Faceplant]

People HATE to admit they're wrong. To the point that it can subconsciously make you root against a player.

Seems like we will have many posters who might be subconsciously rooting against Atwell with how many disliked the pick.

100% right. I will never understand that either. That is why I don't get involved in mock drafting (pointless as anything ever) or get attached to possible draftees. Whomever the Rams pick, I root for. No sense in pissing and mining about it.....

And yes, I get that this is a message board... And people gonna piss and moan. That's all well and good. LAChump was a good example of someone who went too far and actively rooted AGAINST a Rams player......

 

[FrantikRam]

I'd actually love to be wrong about Atwell; if he succeeds, that means that the Rams are a better team. I have skepticism for many reasons, but that doesn't mean I won't scream his name (Atwell, not his nickname, which I will not reference ever) the first time he gets a touchdown or a long gain.

I agree and I think you'd be an exception.

One of the reasons I brought it up is because it goes hand in hand with what my mindset is after a draft - sure, I may have wanted the Rams to draft a certain player, but I give all that up right after the draft, because:

Players often succeed or fail due to factors that we are unaware of - interactions with other players/coaches or something inside the player that nobody knew about. Greg Robinson was a unanimous top 5 pick - he was a complete and total bust - but everyone had him going that high. What happened? It's not just Snead and the Rams that missed on that - anyone would have.

So I just choose to be happy with who the Rams took. For any given player, there's 32 different potential outcomes for 32 different teams - because at the end of the day, all of these guys have talent or they wouldn't have been drafted. The real difference is going to be their attitude, demeanor and work ethic - none of which we have any clue about.

 

[FrantikRam]

People can't fathom that in spite of not liking a pick we'll still root for the player. It's like they want to create a divide on some made up garbage. He's a Ram and he wears the Horns, we'll root for him.

When people start spewing negativity nonstop, it is fair to wonder what they're actually rooting for - do you disagree with that statement?