Not So Magic Mike?

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Mike Martz was a...

  • Great head coach

    Votes: 10 11.4%
  • An above average head coach

    Votes: 36 40.9%
  • An average head coach

    Votes: 23 26.1%
  • I'm glad he's long gone

    Votes: 19 21.6%

  • Total voters
    88

Prime Time

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #61
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/s...fice-dysfunction-puts-rams-in-a-fix.html?_r=0

Front-Office Strife Put Rams in a Fix
By MIKE TANIER - SEPT. 17, 2011

The St. Louis Rams, who face the Giants at MetLife Stadium on Monday night, have not had a winning season in eight years. They finished second to last in the N.F.L.in points allowed four times from 2005 through 2009. They posted a 6-42 record from 2007 through 2009, and although last season’s 7-9 finish offered hope that the franchise was finally headed in the right direction, a season-opening 31-13 loss to Philadelphia proved that the Rams still have a long way to go.

The N.F.L. is not supposed to work like this. The league has safety nets like the draft and the salary cap to keep teams from falling into the basement for eight years. The Rams’ near decade of futility is a result of muddled management, bad coaching and the brutal economics of trying to keep a championship team together.

Trouble began for the Rams less than two days after they won Super BowlXXXIV in the 1999 season. Dick Vermeil retired as the coach and the director of football operations, forcing the Rams to restructure their front office. John Shaw, the team president, promoted the longtime staffers Jay Zygmunt to director of football operations and Charley Armey to general manager.

The offensive coordinator Mike Martz, the architect of the newly named Greatest Show on Turf, became the coach. Martz was given control of player personnel decisions, though Shaw retained veto power from Los Angeles, where he remained when the Rams moved to St. Louis in 1995.

dog-rams-1-popup.jpg

The Rams once had the Greatest Show on Turf, with stars like Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner. CreditPeter Muhly/Agence France-Presse

For the next two seasons, the team remained an N.F.C. powerhouse, losing to New England in Super Bowl XXXVI. The Rams rewarded their biggest offensive stars with hefty long-term contracts. Quarterback Kurt Warner and receiver Isaac Bruce received seven-year deals valued over $40 million in 2000. Marshall Faulk earned a seven-year, $46.4 million deal in 2002.
The huge contracts kept the nucleus intact but kept the Rams close to the salary cap and became limiting factors in free agency. Important players like linebacker London Fletcher and receiver Az-Zahir Hakim received lucrative offers from other teams, and the Rams were forced to sign lower-priced alternatives.

“We’ve known that free agency over the last couple years would be more of a minus than a plus for us,” Shaw said in January 2003.

By 2005, most of the Rams’ salary-cap space was absorbed by a handful of players. Warner, released two seasons earlier, still cost them $6.72 million. Faulk, Bruce and receiver Torry Holt consumed another $20 million. A long list of valuable performers signed elsewhere, including defensive end Grant Wistrom, defensive back Dre’ Bly and receiver Ricky Proehl.

The draft brought few reinforcements. The Rams selected three defenders in the first round in 2001, but only safety Adam Archuleta emerged as a star, and he left as a free agent in 2006. The Rams’ offense remained competitive, with Faulk, Bruce and Holt running on afterburners, but the defense fell apart.

Meanwhile, tension between Martz and the Armey-Zygmunt old guard erupted into public warfare. At one point, the Rams’ director of football operations, Samir Suleiman, an Armey supporter, left a threatening voice-mail message, in which he called himself a throat slasher, for a St. Louis columnist who had accused some executives of undermining Martz. When Martz, on medical leave after a heart attack, tried to contact the Rams’ offensive coordinator with advice during a game, Zygmunt reportedly refused to allow the call to go through.

Martz also had conflicts with Warner and engaged in an open feud with tackle Kyle Turley. A former wunderkind coach, Martz was increasingly characterized as an egomaniac, though the “throat slasher” incident suggestion that the Rams’ dysfunction went well beyond Martz.

“Playing for the Rams,” Turley later told Sports Illustrated, “was like being on ‘Survivor,’ with Mike Martz and all of those other guys forming secret alliances and doing whatever they could to sabotage each other.”

Martz was fired and replaced by Scott Linehan after the 2005 season. Armey was also quietly reassigned after the 2006 draft. The 2005-6 drafts were exceptionally fallow, yielding the first-round picks Alex Barron (a perennial league leader in false-start penalties) and Tye Hill (a 5-foot-9 cornerback who never developed into a starter).

The team climbed out of cap trouble as players like Faulk retired, but an ill-advised 2006 spending spree choked the roster with aging, undistinguished veterans. The quick veteran fix, last gasps by Bruce and Holt, and a fine year by quarterback Marc Bulger helped Linehan post an 8-8 record, but the optimism was short-lived.

Linehan’s tenure proved to be nearly as soap operatic as Martz’s, but without the intermittent success. Linehan turned play-calling duties over to the coordinator Greg Olsen late in the 2006 season, prompting a brief winning streak, then fired Olsen after the 2007 season. After the Rams lost their first three games by a combined 29-116 score in 2008, Linehan benched Bulger and five other starters in what was perceived as a desperate move. Players criticized Linehan on local sports radio. Linehan was fired late in the season.

Georgia Frontiere, the Rams’ owner, died in January 2008, beginning a slow regime change in which front-office veterans like Shaw and Zygmunt were replaced or eased into consulting roles. Many of the old guard had traveled with the Rams from Los Angeles to St. Louis in 1995.

Vermeil’s brief success and the tumultuous Martz-Linehan tenures masked longstanding organizational atrophy. The Rams had nine straight losing seasons before Vermeil, Martz and Warner joined forces to win 13 games and a Super Bowl. When the last traces of Vermeil’s influence faded away, the Rams were once again directionless.

The multisport mogul Stan Kroenke bought a majority interest in the Rams in 2010, providing an influx of cash. The newly promoted general manager, Billy Devaney, took over draft responsibilities that year, selecting the franchise quarterback Sam Bradford and the impressive left tackle Rodger Saffold. Under Coach Steve Spagnuolo, the team improved to 7-9 in 2010 from 1-15 the season before without provoking public spats or leaving ominous voice-mail messages.

The Rams may finally be moving forward. Then again, the new coordinator Josh McDaniels has a reputation for offensive genius, personality conflicts and backroom machinations. The Rams have a poor track record when it comes to coaches like that.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2010/10/22/former-player-speaks-to-martz-ego-as-detriment/

Former Player Speaks To Martz Ego As Detriment
October 22, 2010 3:07 PM

Mike Martz (Photo Credit: Getty Images, By: Jonathan Daniel)

Former NFL receiver, Ricky Proehl, knows the Mike Martz offense as well as anyone. Proehl played for Martz in St. Louis and was part of the “greatest show on turf” teams and talk with the Danny Mac Show earlier today.

As a member of the most prolific offenses that Martz has produced, Proehl is not only knowledgeable of the intricacies of the the system, but also the ego of the man calling the plays.

Martz’s former player was critical of the coach’s ability and openness to adapt to what the defense is giving. Proehl talked about Super Bowl XXXVI featured the Rams and Patriots.

“New England did a great job of game planning our offense,” he said. “They showed blitz and dropped into zone. They basically rushed three and dropped eight. And [Martz’s] comment was ‘we’re going to throw that ball anyway.”

Martz’s desire to continue throwing the ball instead of running it, was a choice that according to Proehl was not well received by the Rams’ offensive players.

Beyond Martz' ego, Proehl was able to provide valuable insight into the lack of audibles in the system.

“Everything was sight adjustments,” Proehl said . “Hot [routes] were built in, but there was communication that we had, as receivers, with Kurt. But that didn’t happen over night.”

Just as important as the sight adjustments is the offensive line. While every offense lives and dies by the offensive lineman, Proehl explained why he thought the o-line was more crucial for the Martz system.

“Quarterbacks hold on to the ball a little longer becasue the was the offense is designed,” he said. “Guys clear for other guys to open up spots and different holes, the quarterback needs that extra second to get the ball down the field.”

http://forum.ninercaphell.com/showthread.php?t=6358

49ers: Another view of Mike Martz
By Daniel Brown
Mercury News
Article Launched: 01/10/2008

Can Mike Martz fix the 49ers? What does his hiring mean for running back Frank Gore?

And what's the deal with that Mad Mike ego?

In search of answers, we called two people who ought to know. Say hello to Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner.

The running back and quarterback combined to take the St. Louis Rams to rollicking heights under Martz from 1999-2005. They reached two Super Bowls during that span (winning one) and led the NFL in scoring three times. Faulk won an MVP award. Warner won two.

Each agreed to give The Mercury News a scouting report on the offensive coordinator hired by the 49ers this week. The consensus? The big winner with Martz's arrival is Gore - although not for the reasons you might think.
Faulk, for example, said Gore would flourish not by doing more but by doing less. He said Martz's knack for relying on other playmakers means defenses will stop loading up on the 49ers' lone threat.

"The one thing Mike does is find multiple ways to win games," said Faulk, from Culver City, where he was preparing to go on air as an analyst for the NFL Network.

"There will be times when the defense will be focused on Frank, and that's the time of the game when you find out whether your third or fourth options were paying attention in practice. "Are those players prepared? Can they handle the pressure? With Mike, it's in the details and he'll find as many ways as he can to win.'

In other words, there will be no repeat of what happened when the 49ers played at Seattle Nov. 12. On fourth-and-1, everybody knew Gore would get the ball. The Seahawks pummeled him for no gain.

"Mike will move him around," Warner said from his home in Arizona, where he now serves as quarterback for the Cardinals. "Mike will get the most of Frank because Gore is a tremendous player, and he finds creative ways to use his playmakers."

Martz used Faulk all over the field, frequently lining him up as a split end. That's how the runner wound up joining former 49ers star Roger Craig as the only backs to amass 1,000 rushing yards and 1,000 receiving yards in the same season.

Gore has decent hands (114 catches over the past few seasons), although it's tough to imagine him being as nimble a receiver as Faulk. No matter, Faulk said, because Martz will capitalize on Gore's other skills.

"Frank is a much better inside runner than I ever was," Faulk said. "That's good for Mike because it gives him another weapon."

Of course, Gore's performance will be wasted again if the 49ers can't get more out of their moribund passing game. AWEKS SHIT and Shaun Hill are expected to compete for the starting job, a competition that Coach Mike Nowin has indicated will be left to Martz.

"Mike is the expert on quarterback play, let's not kid ourselves," Nowin said.

Regardless of who wins the job, Warner said both quarterbacks will essentially be starting from scratch. He recalled being shocked - and a tad bit offended - when Martz began working with him on basic fundamentals.

"He changed the way I'd been dropping back my whole life," Warner said.
Most coaches, Warner said, put an emphasis on big strides and getting depth from the line of scrimmage. Martz worried more about rhythm. The coach wanted the ball out at the "top of the drop," Warner said, and in practice Martz rarely concerned himself with the result of the play. He just wanted to make sure the footwork was correct.

"Every once in a while, you'd like to get credit for making a good throw," Warner recalled with a laugh. "But it was all about timing."

Martz had terrific receivers to work with in St. Louis, namely Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce.

The 49ers have - well, no one like that. Their top wideout, Arnaz Battle, ranked 62nd in the NFL for receptions.

But Warner and Faulk insisted that Martz could find untapped potential in
some players. The previously obscure Mike Furrey, for example, caught 98 passes for 1,086 yards after Martz arrived in Detroit in 2006.

"I think what I liked most was his ability to instill confidence in the players," Warner said. "He had confidence in us no matter what, that he was going to put the ball in our hands. His philosophy was, 'You guys dictate the outcome of the game.' When he put that confidence in us, we wanted to reward him."

Confidence, incidentally, is not something Martz lacks in himself. His famously brash personality already has raised questions about whether he can coexist with Nowin, who isn't exactly the poster boy for humility.

Martz's ego is no myth. Warner and Faulk both stressed that the coach wants things done precisely his way, right down to the small stuff.

For all Martz's bluster, though, Faulk said the coach won over the locker room by never criticizing a player in the media. Instead, Martz freely shouldered the blame for his own mistakes.

"He's a very confident coach, but he's accountable," Faulk said. "He would stand before players and say, 'I messed that up. I should have made a better call there.' Most coaches just don't do that."

Martz apparently did his fair share of messing up in Detroit. He was fired as the offensive coordinator after two seasons.

He had resurrected the Lions' passing game, taking a unit that ranked No. 26 in 2005 and delivering two top-10 finishes. But Martz's running game was horrible both seasons, finishing 32nd in '06 and 31st in '07. Why didn't it work out for Martz in Detroit?

"Who said it didn't work out," Faulk protested. "It was very difficult for the offense because the defense wasn't getting off the field. The Lions had the feeling that they had to score, that they had to push it, that they had to put the ball in the air.

"In San Francisco, it won't be like that. He'll have more time to be patient with the running game.'

Warner, too, predicted things would work for Martz and the 49ers. That's a bittersweet reaction for someone who happens to play in the same division. "He'll get it going," Warner said. "I just hope it takes him a few years."
 

Alan

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nighttrain thinking back:
I don't remember any Martz ran off, left for more money maybe, but who exactly did Martz run off? Remember Georgia controlled the money
I don't either train. Surely he can't be making this up out of whole cloth so there must be something there. That's why I wondered why he included that data. Nothing there supported that theory. Or at least nothing I could see. The author made some good observations but not in this case. Of course one of us is old train so...
 

MrMotes

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Billy Devaney, took over draft responsibilities that year, selecting the franchise quarterback Sam Bradford and the impressive left tackle Rodger Saffold.

Good work Billy D., nailed down those two crucial positions for years to come.

Martz also had conflicts with Warner and engaged in an open feud with tackle Kyle Turley.

Kyle Turley was on IR and in the midst of being out of football for 2 years when he had his "open feud" with Martz in 2004. Kyle tried to come back in 2006 with the Chiefs but only played in 7 games in '06 and another 7 in '07 before retiring...
 
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Alan

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Prime Time with some good shit:
Important players like linebacker London Fletcher and receiver Az-Zahir Hakim received lucrative offers from other teams, and the Rams were forced to sign lower-priced alternatives.


By 2005, most of the Rams’ salary-cap space was absorbed by a handful of players. Warner, released two seasons earlier, still cost them $6.72 million. Faulk, Bruce and receiver Torry Holt consumed another $20 million. A long list of valuable performers signed elsewhere, including defensive end Grant Wistrom, defensive back Dre’ Bly and receiver Ricky Proehl.

Martz also had conflicts with Warner and engaged in an open feud with tackle Kyle Turley. A former wunderkind coach, Martz was increasingly characterized as an egomaniac, though the “throat slasher” incident suggestion that the Rams’ dysfunction went well beyond Martz.

“Playing for the Rams,” Turley later told Sports Illustrated, “was like being on ‘Survivor,’ with Mike Martz and all of those other guys forming secret alliances and doing whatever they could to sabotage each other.”
I don't blame Martz for any of that except his truly horrendous drafting.
Fletcher was old and the DC wanted a get a replacement.
Az-Zahir Hakim the fumble machine wasn't worth it. He didn't go on to do anything after he left the Rams. (I'm pretty sure about that but I'm pretty stoned now so maybe not)
His comment about having to let Dre' Bly, Wistrom and Proehl go was true but they weren't worth what they got from other teams and while I know a lot of guys hear liked Wistrom but IMO he was for sure not worth the money he got elsewhere. Prohl also got overpaid and what, the fourth or fifth best WR on the Rams? Although I loved him for what he did in the Playoffs.:love: :LOL: Dre Bly was pretty good but we couldn't afford him.
We had to pay the salaries of possibly 4 HFers and sacrifices had to be made somewhere.
As for the conflict with Turley, despite what he said in that interview, Turley was a nut job and most everyone on any of the boards I read *not many) were glad to see him go. Back Problems, lost a shit load of weight, no functional strength and was constantly getting successfully bull rushed. So that leave us with the thing with Warner. He helped make Warner the great QB he was. But even if it didn't turn out well in the end that's one guy. I don't think having difficulties with one guy is enough to give you that label.

There could be a lot of stuff I don't know about that would make the rumor true but I haven't seen it yet.
 

DaveFan'51

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To me it was obvious that Fletcher left us for Buffalo for the Buck$! And then he left Buffalo to go to Washington for the same reason,$$$$!
Don't get me wrong he's A really good Player, But he made changes to make bucks while he was Hot!
 

Stranger

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Martz's ego is no myth. Warner and Faulk both stressed that the coach wants things done precisely his way, right down to the small stuff.
how is egomania related to wanting things done precisely his way? Sounds to me like Mike knew what works and wanted to see that deployed on the field. Funny thing is, Martz was totally right.
"He's a very confident coach, but he's accountable," Faulk said. "He would stand before players and say, 'I messed that up. I should have made a better call there.' Most coaches just don't do that."
egotism is definied as "excessive and objectionable reference to oneself in conversation or writing; conceit; boastfulness." Someone who is a egomaniac doesn't accept blame, let alone public blame.
Why didn't it work out for Martz in Detroit?

"Who said it didn't work out," Faulk protested. "It was very difficult for the offense because the defense wasn't getting off the field. The Lions had the feeling that they had to score, that they had to push it, that they had to put the ball in the air.
Exactly, Marshall. Why does the media continue to spin everything about Mike in the negative, as many continue to do here at ROD?
As a member of the most prolific offenses that Martz has produced, Proehl is not only knowledgeable of the intricacies of the the system, but also the ego of the man calling the plays.

Martz’s former player was critical of the coach’s ability and openness to adapt to what the defense is giving. Proehl talked about Super Bowl XXXVI featured the Rams and Patriots.

“New England did a great job of game planning our offense,” he said. “They showed blitz and dropped into zone. They basically rushed three and dropped eight. And [Martz’s] comment was ‘we’re going to throw that ball anyway.”
Again, I don't see this as an Ego issue. Here we have the media framing what Ricky said to suit somekine of agenda. Further, I've also heard Martz say that he should have passed even more during that SB. So, I'm not so sure that the players are right here, and I'd certainly love to hear Martz and his former players debate this point in public, so I ccould learn just why martz felt so strongly about passing against that Defense.
 

fearsomefour

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where are all the statements from his former players that support the conclusion that Mike was an egomaniac?
Right here....dont have them.
I am basing that more on how he conducted his team. His absolute refusal to change things when they were not going well. When the O line was struggling and his QB was getting beaten to hell, he would still go empty backfield over and over. But, there were exceptions. Finally getting it and running the ball to defeat the Eagles in the playoffs was an example of him seeing what was going on. His whole mantra about not caring about turnovers or time outs. I get that some of that was sort of one liners to his approach....better to be aggressive and make mistakes than not attack....
Maybe assigning his short comings to ego is not accurate. Stubborn, short sighted....other words could describe the same thing.
 

fearsomefour

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Martz’s former player was critical of the coach’s ability and openness to adapt to what the defense is giving. Proehl talked about Super Bowl XXXVI featured the Rams and Patriots.
This is what bothered most about Martz. He was unwilling or unable to make in game adjustments most of the time. When his offense was on it was often great. But, there is a real lack of come from behind wins for such a prolific offense. Maybe it was being on the sideline as HC and calling plays, who knows? Or stubbornness.
I don't put the defections on D on Martz....that was salary cap. The Rams had the picks to replace a lot of those losses but (and noted on this thread many times) they whiffed badly for the most part. His FA signings were mostly not great either. That and cutting a HOF QB is a sure way to destroy a should-have-been dynasty.
 

nighttrain

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I don't either train. Surely he can't be making this up out of whole cloth so there must be something there. That's why I wondered why he included that data. Nothing there supported that theory. Or at least nothing I could see. The author made some good observations but not in this case. Of course one of us is old train so...
one of us? :welcome:
train
 

Stranger

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His whole mantra about not caring about turnovers or time outs.
I think his opinion was that he was not going to throttle-back on offensive pressure due to fear of a turnover. I'd call that not playing scared, and I agree with the approach.

With respect to Timeouts, I've never understood why their is some unwritten rule that these must be "saved" for the end of the half or the game. You use them when you need them. I agree with Martz here.
 

LesBaker

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Martz was the man. Damn good HC. The players loved him.

His downfall;
1. He was stupid enough to let Warner walk rather than letting him heal up and protecting him like he promised in press conferences.

I fixed that for you. No need to thank me or shower me with gifts. :ROFLMAO:
 

LesBaker

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Heck of a track record with unknown QB's.

If memory serves me right; Jon Kitna put up 4,000 yard seasons under mad Mike.

EDIT: Yep. His only two 4,000 yard seasons.

That'll happen when you throw the ball a million times.

I think Cutler summed it up for me.

Though when he finally admitted he didn't handle the GSOT and the Warner situation the way he should have and said he wished he had done it differently I softened my stance a bit.

fromapunchinthetempletoadickpunch
 

fearsomefour

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I think his opinion was that he was not going to throttle-back on offensive pressure due to fear of a turnover. I'd call that not playing scared, and I agree with the approach.

With respect to Timeouts, I've never understood why their is some unwritten rule that these must be "saved" for the end of the half or the game. You use them when you need them. I agree with Martz here.
As I said, this was his approach on O, always attack. I agree with his approach on O, if you have the players to pull it off.
As for timeouts, it really depends on the situation. It makes me crazy when a QB burns a time out on, say, a 3rd and 16 rather than just take on another 5. The most likely result of the 3rd play is a punt, whether you have to get 16 yards or 21 yards. The same can be said for a 2nd and 2. Save the TO and you still have 2 plays to get 7 yards. Score, time left in the half or game all depend to of course. If it is a close game that is likely going to come down to a late possession burning timeouts to save 5 yards does not make sense to me.
 

Alan

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nighttrain catching my attempt to pretend my mind is still young and agile:
one of us? :welcome:
I'm young at heart so I try not to lump myself in with you old guys. :LOL: Plus, I was hoping everyone would think I was talking about you. :p
 

RamWoodie

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Martz was an average head coach, and SUPERB OC. His problem was ARROGANCE! He refused to learn from his mistakes!

How many times did we hear..."Awww we'll fix that"...only to see it was not fixed???

He was learning when he realized he needed help with defense. He went and got Lovie Smith...and unfortunately that SB was stolen from the Rams.

I'm done!
 

nighttrain

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Martz was an average head coach, and SUPERB OC. His problem was ARROGANCE! He refused to learn from his mistakes!

How many times did we hear..."Awww we'll fix that"...only to see it was not fixed???

He was learning when he realized he needed help with defense. He went and got Lovie Smith...and unfortunately that SB was stolen from the Rams.

I'm done!
Try coaching with Shaw and Ziggy running personnel. Impossible///Ziggy and Shaw ran off Lovie ruined the team
train
 

Stranger

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Where are they now?
*********************************
http://www.steelers.com/team/front-office.html

Samir "Throat Slasher" Suleiman - Football Administration Coordinator, Pittsburgh Steelers.
Samir Suleiman (Soohl-E-mun) has worked with President of Football Operations/GM Jay Zygmunt in overseeing all aspects of football operations including salary cap/roster management, player contract negotiations, trades, pro personnel and player procurement since 2000. Prior to joining the Rams, Samir (Suh-mear) performed similar duties as Manager of Contract Information for the Jacksonville Jaguars during their back-to-back (1998-1999) AFC Central Division Championship seasons.

Samir began his career in 1997 with the NFL Management Council for which he monitored the league-wide Salary Cap and analyzed player contracts. Suleiman has been a member of the NFL Management Council Club Services Committee, which oversees technology development and all MC/Club interaction, since 2001.

Born in Washington, D.C., Samir was a four-sport letterman in high school including an All-Conference captain in football and basketball and the Athlete of the Year at Randolph-Macon Academy. He earned a B.S. degree in Sport Management from James Madison University (VA) where he played wide receiver on the 1994 Lambert Cup Championship I-AA football team. In 2003, Suleiman was named an Outstanding Alumnus of the University. He also played semi-pro football for the four-time National Champion Brooklyn (NY) Mariners that won the 1997 Garden State Football League Championship. Samir is single and enjoys traveling, reading autobiographies and hunting worldwide with his father. He has participated in shooting tournaments to benefit the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation and the Ronald McDonald House.

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/?p=293