Not So Magic Mike?

[Prime Time]

He must make a really good cup of coffee, or something.

Or something.

 

[fastcat]

Don't judge me but when I read the topic of this thread I thought it was about that male stripper movie "magic mike xxl". And when I opened it I was disappointed it wasnt... I need to go look in the mirror. #facepalm

But I do wanna see it. The 1st one was pretty good btw lol.

 

[fearsomefour]

Of this list,
2000/Trung Canidate/RB/Arizona
2001/Damione Lewis/DT/Miami (Florida)[a]
2001/Adam Archuleta/DB/Arizona State
2001/Ryan Pickett/DT/Ohio State
2002/ Robert Thomas/LB/UCLA
2003/Jimmy Kennedy/DT/Penn State
2004/Steven Jackson/RB/Oregon State
2005/Alex Barron/OT/Florida State
Only Pickett was any good or not past his prime. How does that help the case he's trying to make?

Trung was a major reach, D. Lewis a bit as well.
As for the picks of Archuleta, Pickett, Thomas, Kennedy, Jackson and Barron....these were all highly rated guys that were picked about where they were projected. Kennedy was a 10 ten pick by every scouting service/mag/website around and every "expert" I heard on the radio raved about the guy....sometimes its just bad luck.

 

[fearsomefour]

He's a great OC, maybe one of the bests, but as a head coach he's mediocre and has no business evaluating talent. Just because you're crap at one thing in a craft doesn't mean you're completely terrible at everything to do with it. You can appreciate Martz as a great OC that helped us win a Super Bowl and also acknowledge that he's probably not suited for being a head coach.

He is the reason the Rams won a Superbowl. Waaaaaay beyond helping.
The O that Vermeil and Co had in place before Martz arrived was predictable and pathetic. That offseason of bringing Martz, Faulk, Holt and Trent Green (who my wife met playing golf yesterday at Tahoe) in was a good as some of those drafts were bad. Everything fit.
Listing the pieces the Rams brought in that offseason above is done in the order of importance as far as Im concerned. Without Martz's influence and the needs of his offense Holt probably would not have been drafted and Faulk would probably have been relegated to Vermeils terrible offense.

 

[Alan]

fearsomefour remembering the draft hype:
Trung was a major reach, D. Lewis a bit as well.
As for the picks of Archuleta, Pickett, Thomas, Kennedy, Jackson and Barron....these were all highly rated guys that were picked about where they were projected. Kennedy was a 10 ten pick by every scouting service/mag/website around and every "expert" I heard on the radio raved about the guy....sometimes its just bad luck.

You could be and probably are right about their draft status but this list isn't about his drafting, good or bad, it's about this:
"And he definitely had issues with certain players. I remember some that he ran off, but I was particularly interested in seeing who else left, and when, during his reign."

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Martz was growing as a head coach and a drafter. He was slowly improving on mistakes then he was fired. Who knows how it all would have gone if he was given a chance over the long haul and Georgia had fired Zygmunt instead, like she should have.

I think Martz was improving and would have gotten better over time. I also think the Rams would have been more competitive with Martz than they were with the cadre of coaches that followed him.....Linehand, Vitt, Haslett, Spagnoulo

 

[fearsomefour]

You could be and probably are right about their draft status but this list isn't about his drafting, good or bad, it's about this:
"And he definitely had issues with certain players. I remember some that he ran off, but I was particularly interested in seeing who else left, and when, during his reign."

Fair enough.
He was definitely an ego maniac. The type of personality that is usually born out if insecurity.
He started out as an unpaid volunteer way back when. I am sure he had the chip on his shoulder/paranoia perspective of a guy who felt no one ever really believed in him. Even though he was a HC he probably felt much the outsider.
It's funny now if you go through a Martz interview he is humble, almost apologetic about how things went. I think time away gave him the perspective he lacked in the moment.

 

[DR RAM]

I simply do not support this conclusion.

What do you think the Rams would look like with Martz as HC and the same exact F.O. staff that Fisher is benefitting from?

Martz took a team to the SB with that numbnutz FO support staff. That's just incredible in hindsight.

You don't have to support it, it's my conclusion.

Can't deal with what ifs, but what was, and that team went downhill.

 

[Prime Time]

It's funny now if you go through a Martz interview he is humble, almost apologetic about how things went. I think time away gave him the perspective he lacked in the moment.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKwTx5GewM

 

[DR RAM]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKwTx5GewM

It's a tough, grueling job, and he probably had too much on his plate, but it was the plate he asked for.

The FO question is a different one, entirely.

 

[Amitar]

If Martz's at least would have been the OC of the Rams the last three years with Les Snead as the GM this Rams team would not have a losing record.
To be fair his playoff record is really 4-3 and everyone knows that is a fact.

 

[MrMotes]

Believe it or not, Marmie is still hanging around the NFL at age 72. He is currently listed as 'Senior Defensive Assistant' for the Tampa Bay Bucs working for Lovie Smith.

Not a lot of people do, but clearly Martz and Lovie have always thought a lot of Marmie...

 

[MrMotes]

Trung was a major reach, D. Lewis a bit as well.
As for the picks of Archuleta, Pickett, Thomas, Kennedy, Jackson and Barron....these were all highly rated guys that were picked about where they were projected. Kennedy was a 10 ten pick by every scouting service/mag/website around and every "expert" I heard on the radio raved about the guy....sometimes its just bad luck.

And again, the drafting didn't improve after he was fired, it got worse, much worse...

 

[Stranger]

So, right now, over 50% of the votes say Mike Martz was either a great head coach or an above average head coach.

I'm still struggling with the question:
If Mike Martz was a great or above average coach, why is his resume after the Rams like this?
* 2006 - Detroit
* 2007 - Detriot
** Gone
* 2008 San Francisco
** Gone
* * No employment in 2009
* 2010 - Chicago (his good friend Lovie)
* 2011 - Chicago
** Gone
* * Nothing since.

Yes, I know he's done broadcasting and all... but no offers at all? Maybe there were some and I'm not aware of them. Actually, wasn't he being considered for something this year and it also fizzled?

Just seems odd that a guy who was a great to above average head coach has had such trouble catching on - and staying with - any other NFL team as an OC (not even talking HC).

Question for the ages...

In Detroit, didn't Kidna has his two best yrs ever as a QB?

In SF, there was the real Mad Mike as HC, and he wanted to go old school. Things were totally messed up in SF that year.

Ummm, he took the Bears to the NFCC.

Perhaps he doesn't have a job because he's not looking. He's also turned down offers to interview.

 

[Stranger]

He took a great team to a Super Bowl. That's great and all, but if you couldn't take the GSOT to a Super Bowl then you are simply lacking the facilities even be in the NFL period.

ummm, he was responsible for the GSOT. GSOT doesn't happen if Martz wasn't there, and if Vermeil didn't give him the control that he did.

 

[Stranger]

Fair enough.
He was definitely an ego maniac. The type of personality that is usually born out if insecurity.
He started out as an unpaid volunteer way back when. I am sure he had the chip on his shoulder/paranoia perspective of a guy who felt no one ever really believed in him. Even though he was a HC he probably felt much the outsider.
It's funny now if you go through a Martz interview he is humble, almost apologetic about how things went. I think time away gave him the perspective he lacked in the moment.

where are all the statements from his former players that support the conclusion that Mike was an egomaniac?

 

[MrMotes]

I have to think Martz really did some crazy shit at the end of his time with the Rams. I think JT said something about Martz going around Shaw and Zygmut and straight to Georgia which gave him a bad rap in FO circles. He was probably a nightmare to deal with. Coaches with a lot worse records than his work a whole lot more.

Whatever the reason, it's too bad, the NFL is a much better place when Mike Martz is in it...

 

[MrMotes]

ummm, he was responsible for the GSOT. GSOT doesn't happen if Martz wasn't there, and if Vermeil didn't give him the control that he did.

Exactly. Martz didn't inherit the GSOT. He was the architect...

 

[HometownBoy]

ummm, he was responsible for the GSOT. GSOT doesn't happen if Martz wasn't there, and if Vermeil didn't give him the control that he did.

Even such, he then he promptly destroyed it, with help mind you, but still. The good he did as an OC doesn't nullify the bad he did as a head coach anymore than the bad he did as a HC nullify his OC chops.

All the poor personnel decisions he made, all the bad drafting and jumping the gun is all him, nobody else. There's a reason he's never been an HC again, but still enjoyed an illustrious career as a OC making guys look radically better than they were.

 

[nighttrain]

You could be and probably are right about their draft status but this list isn't about his drafting, good or bad, it's about this:
"And he definitely had issues with certain players. I remember some that he ran off, but I was particularly interested in seeing who else left, and when, during his reign."

I don't remember any Martz ran off, left for more money maybe, but who exactly did Martz run off? Remember Georgia controlled the money
train