Not So Magic Mike?

[HometownBoy]

I think this is a fair assessment.

There seems to be quite a few fans who believe he was not a good evaluator of talent.

What's not said is the impact of those bad decisions. The team started to deteriorate at the endof his tenure and only got worse, thanks to Linehan and Spagnuolo/Devaney. That's a lot of years of bad drafting. A hole so big, we're still digging out.

You bring up a great point. I thought the same when I saw mention of Martz record.

Martz does have a nice record, but much of that can be attributed to the fact that he had pretty much the same GSOT team for quite some time, and by the time his decisions and draftees started paying 'dividends' it was obvious that the team was getting worse, not better.

He failed to replace the pieces leaving with pieces of equal or even good value. Barring even the busts, he couldn't quite stop finding people who were only serviceable or not bad, role players who wouldn't give the team the edge it needed to stay on the top. No need to mention his jumping the gun on Kurt, as that's been beaten to death as is.

I love Martz as an OC, but fact remains that he was part of the catalysts of the worst stretch of Rams football despite him being a great OC.

 

[Alan]

Rmfnlt with this:
Oh, I thought he was trying to make the case that his piskcs weren't very good. That's still a valid argument to me.

You'll get no argument from me. I'd venture to say that he was even worse at that than the regimes that followed him. As bad as Linyham and Spagz were at drafting, they get a small break from me because so many of the drafts they were involved in were horrible for all the teams. Can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear. Can't get blood from a turnip. OK, I'll stop now.

 

[Rmfnlt]

So, right now, over 50% of the votes say Mike Martz was either a great head coach or an above average head coach.

I'm still struggling with the question:
If Mike Martz was a great or above average coach, why is his resume after the Rams like this?
* 2006 - Detroit
* 2007 - Detriot
** Gone
* 2008 San Francisco
** Gone
* * No employment in 2009
* 2010 - Chicago (his good friend Lovie)
* 2011 - Chicago
** Gone
* * Nothing since.

Yes, I know he's done broadcasting and all... but no offers at all? Maybe there were some and I'm not aware of them. Actually, wasn't he being considered for something this year and it also fizzled?

Just seems odd that a guy who was a great to above average head coach has had such trouble catching on - and staying with - any other NFL team as an OC (not even talking HC).

Question for the ages...

 

[nighttrain]

Martz had to have the players to fit his system, 1999, 2000 Rams had it all. AS far as drafting, he was certainly not the best, but the alternative was Ziggy and Shaw:eek:. If we had the front office then that we now have, we might still have Mad Mike. The Empress Georgia killed the Rams til her demise, SK was a minority owner with no say at that time
train

 

[CGI_Ram]

Martz was the man. Damn good HC. The players loved him.

His downfall;
1. The Rams front office at the time was a political mess
2. Martz, judging by the fact he moved around a lot, didn't navigate well at the senior management level
3. His cockiness made him great but was also his worst enemy
4. I don't think personnel was his strong suit. He knew talent when he saw it, but his fly from the hip style as an OC doesn't work when stacking a draft board.

 

[Selassie I]

The front office clown show was created and managed by shaw and his hand picked accountant zygNUT.

No coach in history would be able to sustain success with with that crew leading the way. No Coach.

 

[A55VA6]

Average HC, great OC.

 

[MrMotes]

I know we've all had these Martz debates before and none of us are likely to hear or say anything new.

But for my money, considering how bad the Rams were for the 9 years before he became OC in '99 and how bad they've been for the 9+ years since he was fired in 2005, considering how instrumental he was in our only SB win, how he coached us to one of only 3 SB appearances, he's one of the best things that ever happened to the Rams.

I will never see him any other way.

I'm still waiting for the next coach to have a winning season, let alone take us to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years...

 

[-X-]

I know we've all had these Martz debates before and none of us are likely to hear or say anything new.

But for my money, considering how bad the Rams were for the 9 years before he became OC in '99 and how bad they've been for the 9+ years since he was fired in 2005, considering how instrumental he was in our only SB win, how he coached us to one of only 3 SB appearances, he's one of the best things that ever happened to the Rams.

I will never see him any other way.

I'm still waiting for the next coach to have a winning season, let alone take us to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years...

I kind of agree, but I don't know how successful he would have been after 2001 with the way he drafted. Great offensive mind, and probably a good motivator of men, but he absolutely does not know how to build a team, IMO.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I know we've all had these Martz debates before and none of us are likely to hear or say anything new.

But for my money, considering how bad the Rams were for the 9 years before he became OC in '99 and how bad they've been for the 9+ years since he was fired in 2005, considering how instrumental he was in our only SB win, how he coached us to one of only 3 SB appearances, he's one of the best things that ever happened to the Rams.

I will never see him any other way.

I'm still waiting for the next coach to have a winning season, let alone take us to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years...

He also was at the helm for the emergence of Warner and Bulger.

Sure these guys deserve credit for being talented, but how much of their success was born from Martz tutelage?

 

[MrMotes]

He also was at the helm for the emergence of Warner and Bulger.

Sure these guys deserve credit for being talented, but how much of their success was born from Martz tutelage?

And don't forget he was Ike's WR coach his first two years and Green's QB coach in Washington...

I kind of agree, but I don't know how successful he would have been after 2001 with the way he drafted. Great offensive mind, and probably a good motivator of men, but he absolutely does not know how to build a team, IMO.

Drafting certainly wasn't his strong suit. With our dysfunctional FO and lack of scouting department and Martz not being a strong draft guy, bad combination...

 

[CGI_Ram]

and Green's QB coach in Washington...

Heck of a track record with unknown QB's.

If memory serves me right; Jon Kitna put up 4,000 yard seasons under mad Mike.

EDIT: Yep. His only two 4,000 yard seasons.

 

[MrMotes]

Heck of a track record with unknown QB's.

If memory serves me right; Jon Kitna put up 4,000 yard seasons under mad Mike.

EDIT: Yep. His only two 4,000 yard seasons.

Even more amazing than that, over 1,00 of those yards went to Mike Furrey in 2006...

 

[DR RAM]

Very good OC, sub-par HC.

 

[Ram Quixote]

I kind of agree, but I don't know how successful he would have been after 2001 with the way he drafted. Great offensive mind, and probably a good motivator of men, but he absolutely does not know how to build a team, IMO.

But you see, that's my point. Martz was never cut out to be a talent evaluator. He would have been better off with a traditional, football GM. Someone who could have mentored him on team building.

Someone like Dick Vermeil.

 

[Stranger]

Very good OC, sub-par HC.

I simply do not support this conclusion.

What do you think the Rams would look like with Martz as HC and the same exact F.O. staff that Fisher is benefitting from?

Martz took a team to the SB with that numbnutz FO support staff. That's just incredible in hindsight.

 

[HometownBoy]

I simply do not support this conclusion.

What do you think the Rams would look like with Martz as HC and the same exact F.O. staff that Fisher is benefitting from?

Martz took a team to the SB with that numbnutz FO support staff. That's just incredible in hindsight.

He took a great team to a Super Bowl. That's great and all, but if you couldn't take the GSOT to a Super Bowl then you are simply lacking the facilities even be in the NFL period.

Our team wasn't magically just shit after Martz left, it was falling apart while he was here in no small part of his own doing.

I love Martz, but I don't understand why people have to sugarcoat that he was a crappy HC, like it somehow nullifies him being a great OC.

He was the one drafting busts left and right, he was the one finding mediocre replacements for talent that was leaving, he was the one who jumped the gun and made poor personnel decisions like replacing Warner with Bulger because he got injured playing behind a line that Martz decimated.

Martz was not an innocent bystander in all this, he was one of many catalysts.

 

[drasconis]

He took a great team to a Super Bowl. That's great and all, but if you couldn't take the GSOT to a Super Bowl then you are simply lacking the facilities even be in the NFL period.

Our team wasn't magically just crap after Martz left, it was falling apart while he was here in no small part of his own doing.

I love Martz, but I don't understand why people have to sugarcoat that he was a crappy HC, like it somehow nullifies him being a great OC.

He was the one drafting busts left and right, he was the one finding mediocre replacements for talent that was leaving, he was the one who jumped the gun and made poor personnel decisions like replacing Warner with Bulger because he got injured playing behind a line that Martz decimated.

Martz was not an innocent bystander in all this, he was one of many catalysts.

Lets also not forget his poor coordinator choices....the rotating door at ST coach (he brought in good guys here, but failed to support them - several have stated this)....and dear lord LARRY MARMIE!

 

[Prime Time]

Lets also not forget his poor coordinator choices....the rotating door at ST coach (he brought in good guys here, but failed to support them - several have stated this)....and dear lord LARRY MARMIE!

Believe it or not, Marmie is still hanging around the NFL at age 72. He is currently listed as 'Senior Defensive Assistant' for the Tampa Bay Bucs working for Lovie Smith.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Believe it or not, Marmie is still hanging around the NFL at age 72. He is currently listed as 'Senior Defensive Assistant' for the Tampa Bay Bucs working for Lovie Smith.

He must make a really good cup of coffee, or something.