Kromer

[London59]

Coaching an o-line before the season is one thing. Making adjustments to the o-line during the season is IMO the true test of a coach. When the right side was falling apart with Blythe and Havenstein, Kromer did nothing. Not until forced by injuries to Allen and Havenstein did Kromer make adjustments. What I saw from that point on were young guys who played with some very poor fundamentals in technique. He tried to adjust to a gap blocking scheme that worked better than the simplistic outside zone he was exclusively using but the line was horribly inconsistent. Many times success of a run play had more to do with defensive mistakes than good o-line execution.

Remember, last season for all intents and purposes Kromer was the running game, offensive coordinator. Yet all he installed was a very simplistic outside zone run scheme? Outside zone runs depend upon the defense losing gap control to be successful. Good defenses expecting that scheme can simply stuff the run by maintaining their gap responsibilities. Kromer had not installed a counter to keep the defenses guessing. If you don't have an inside run attack then play action is less effective. When Kromer tried to switch to a gap scheme it was clear from the poor execution that the o-line really didn't understand how to execute the scheme. That is poor coaching.

Top run attacks use multiple blocking schemes to keep defenses guessing. Outside zone, inside zone, inside trap, to name a few, and each has variations. Why didn't Kromer use them? Why didn't his o-line know how to execute these other schemes? I'm sorry but these are all signs of poor o-line coaching and prep.

This is why I think we are going to see a whole new offense this year. Under O'Connell I think we will see a whole new offense starting with the run game. I think people who think this is going to stay with one workhorse RB named Akers, are going to be surprised when that isn't the case. Akers and Henderson are very similar in the type of RBs that they are. I think they will split snaps and will thrive in a power run attack. The Rams don't have a FB but they just drafted a TE who has the speed and size to be a good lead blocker and who has demonstrated he can execute a very good wham block in college.

The advantage an offense has when it has 2 RBs with similar capabilities is that there is no change that the defense can key upon. The offense still has their whole playbook open. Kromer has an impressive resume but I saw nothing of that last year. This year is a whole new thing and Kromer has an opportunity to deliver. Personally I find it very revealing that McVay didn't promote Kromer to OC and went outside the organization to hire McConnell. That would seem to suggest that Sean shares some if not all of what I see about Aaron Kromer.

Interesting read. That said, Kromer excelled and took a joke of a line from 2016 and made it a top performer in 2017 and 2018. He lost Saffold, Whitworth got old, and Havenstein I believe was not healthy. Then you had Noteboom go down and I believe Kromer did evaluate Allen wrong and should have known he wasn’t NFL starter material.

Despite a lot going wrong adjustments were made and very few sacks were given up by years end. Add to this I don’t feel Gurley helped the run game either and ran soft on too many plays.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Yes, but we are assuming that Snead is a better GM than Billy Devaney ( Jason Smith), and the Robinson pick was actually heavily influenced by Jeff Fisher (not on Snead, somehow). If we have competent people analyzing talent, is it fair to say they can draft capably for all positions except Olinemen in the 1st and 2nd rounds?

They want to do it from the 3rd round onwards. And not at all this draft.

All we can do is hope they got it right.

.

 

[jrry32]

Well Jrry, I made the statement moving forward to fix the Oline into something better and more stable, not necessarily when the current roster was drafted, exclusively. Having said that....

Whit - 2nd [39 years old. Has declined at end of season the last two years]
Hav - 2nd [Injured and was a question mark when "healthy" last year. Also, was drafted before McVay & Kromer arrived]
Corbett - 2nd [We didn't draft him that high. Believed we traded a 5th rounder to the Browns for him]
Evans - 3rd
Noteboom - 3rd [Like the kid, but he hasn't done too much yet to be declared the heir-apparent to Whit's spot]
Allen - 4th
Edwards - 5th [excited about this guy]
Anchrum - 7th
Blythe - 7th
Brewer - UDFA
Shelton - UDFA

This is our line in 2020, unless we make a trade. Our earliest pick was #52, and there wasn't a dominant OL prospect on the board. My point was that we didn't spackle a line together with UDFAs and late round picks. We have a quality LT. We have a RT who struggled last year but was a second round pick and very good in 2017 and 2018.

We have our third round pick from 2019, who performed decently when thrown into the fire. We have our fifth round pick from 2019, who performed decently when thrown into the fire. We have our third round pick from 2018. He looked good at OT, not so much at LG.

We have our fourth round pick from 2018. He didn't look good at Center. We have the #33 pick from 2018. He was serviceable at LG despite joining the team midseason and was expected to be a better C than G. We have the seventh round pick who started at OG on our Super Bowl team and looked decent at C last year.

That's without yet getting into Anchrum, who is a college OT moving inside. He's a pretty talented guy, just short. But his arm length is more than adequate for OG. I also was impressed by Chandler Brewer last year in the little he played. He might end up being something. I don't think we're in dire straights, and I understand why McVay and Kromer are willing to risk it. Let's say we trot out this OL in Week 1:
LT: Whitworth
LG: Evans
C: Corbett
RG: Edwards
RT: Havenstein
6th OL: Blythe
7th OL: Brewer
8th OL: Anchrum
9th OL: Allen
PUP: Noteboom (assuming he's not ready)

Yes, there's uncertainty, but we've seen Whit and Hav consistently be quality starters. Edwards didn't look out of place as a rookie. He SHOULD be better (no guarantees). Evans played serviceably at RT as a rookie and has a skill-set that arguably fits better at OG. He won't have to protect the corner from speedy edge rushers. Corbett has always had a lot of potential at C. Him or Blythe should be able to give us solid or better play at Center.

The thing about an OL is that good OLs are the sum of their parts, not the individuals within it. It's more important to have solid guys across the board than a couple dominant guys surrounded by liabilities, weakest link and all. Yes, it takes some faith, but I think our OL has the ability to get the job done. I can't guarantee it will, but it also is unlikely that the Rams are going to give up on their young OLs after one season.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Good post @jrry32

Yeah, whenever I get concerned about the oline... it doesn’t take me long to remember our HC is an offensive guy... who probably has a bit of an ego he needs to feed getting “his offense” racing again in 2020.

He knows what it takes to make that happen.

He’s not going to neglect something that will prevent that.

They clearly believe the pieces are there.

 

[iamme33]

Don't forget what Kromer did for our woeful 2016 OL when he arrived in 2017 - turned them into one of the best NFL OLs in 2017 and 2018. His OL was decimated by injuries in 2019.

yeah he done a great job that year but you must remember we added two ol men that year which is what a lot of us wanted this year. oh well got to roll with what we have so I will wipe the tears from my eyes and get back on the wagon.

 

[TheTackle]

If we can add a veteran, in the way we added Sullivan, I will be more optimistic

If Evans can play RG to a high level
If Corbett continues to grow into playing LG (he looked convincing on a short learning curve)
If Blythe can stay injury-free (for the first time since he became a starter)
If Big Whit can play at the same level as last season (which remained rock solid) for a full season
If Havenstein can return to form and nail down another + season
If Noteboom and Allen can work their way back from injury, we will have great depth across the line (with starting experience)

The OL will become a strength again

That is a lot of 'ifs'

Wildcards: Edwards might break into the line-up - Allen might be a much-improved player in year 3 - Tremayne Anchrum might surprise enough to dress on Sundays

That picture would be a lot rosier with a quality vet added to the mix. A lot of teams addressed their OL with 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th round draft picks. Someone will shake loose. For now, Cordy Glenn on a vet-minimum prove-it contract is the best option.

Note, every player we took has a chance to start, dress as a reserve or play teams on Sundays this season. We want to return to the playoffs this year and so adding a veteran OL makes a great deal of sense

 

[So Ram]

McVay said that they feel good about the OL in an interview before the Draft. We thought he was blowing smoke. He clearly wasn't. I hope he's right.

Same as Les Snead said at the end of the draft. He broke it down just like I have since December when The Rams were still making a run.
Bobby Evans even learned to play hurt.
The way Austin Blythe took Charge in the 9ers game up front.Finding out how banged up he was.
Snead talking about Austin Corbett being a 33 draft pick just a few seasons ago. Who knows if The Rams lock him up?
Whitworth going against the best DE’s in the NFL. Showing his fire the last game of the season you had to know he wasn’t finished playing.
Hearing about Big Rob doing the RICE rehab makes me feel good that he has been doing physical therapy & working hard on his core.
Brian Allen & Noteboom working with Long time trainer in Reggie Scout.
along with whit,Hav,Blythe.

It’s always been about adding & building core players within. Kromer will get more time working with this group, Dickerson I think is a solid O’line coach in his own right & Zak keeps up with the pace in between drills. Even working with Jamil Demby
on positioning & pivoting. Working on keeping the hands in.

you look at film and see the Offensive Lineman breaking out to open up a big play only to not be on the same page.
It’s the little things that are really going to open up this offense.
Just go back & look at the SACK total & I DON’T care what RAM Fans think about how BAD this group is!!
It doesn’t take a GENIUS to know not giving up SACKS & getting your QB hit & hurt is not a BAD THING!!

 

[CGI_Ram]

That is a lot of 'ifs'

It is.

You can also say; Trent Williams is a great pick up for SF “if” he stays healthy. All teams are rolling dice, similarly.

I also understand the general tone of uneasiness around here... how the pieces assemble as starters. It seems we all agree the depth is there, but starters?

 

[So Ram]

yeah he done a great job that year but you must remember we added two ol men that year which is what a lot of us wanted this year. oh well got to roll with what we have so I will wipe the tears from my eyes and get back on the wagon.

You have to remember as well as all The Ram Fans Yelling & Screaming last season to pick up that Center the Bills The Rams low balled.

Bottom line is Last Year the OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKED because of Lack of Depth & Experience.

Not the case in 2020!! Fact is The Rams have a Nice Foundation Now!!

Yes John Sullivan was a Team Leader!!!
& I believe if The Rams had not low balled that Buf. Bill The Rams Sotho to the SuperBowl & would’ve not been as good as they are Right Now.

Mcvay made a HUGE mistake letting John Sullivan go & not giving Noteboom & Allen earn there spot.
He learned a Hard lesson. YES BIG WHIT even Called SEAN MCVAY OUT!!

 

[So Ram]

It is.

You can also say; Trent Williams is a great pick up for SF “if” he stays healthy. All teams are rolling dice, similarly.

I also understand the general tone of uneasiness around here... how the pieces assemble as starters. It seems we all agree the depth is there, but starters?

CGI - that is the FUN part!!! Mcvay always wanted competition. That is what was the best part about 2019.
Edwards,Evans,& Corbett all got excellent experience as starters.

 

[PARAM]

Welp, we missed the playoffs last year because of the starting Oline, which became an all men-on-deck moment for Kromer. due to injuries.
Spin it any way you want Snead and McVay, it's on you if it happens again this year.

errr...if there IS a this year! lol

They're definitely saying it was the injuries and not a lack of talent or inferior OL coaching.

Amazing in a few years we went from praising Kromer for turning around our terrible OLine in 2016 to OMG this guy sucks he should be fired and we gotta rebuild the whole oline because he's not doing it the way we want him to do it.

Many of his detractors will point out he didn't "develop" the 2017 and 2018 O lines. He inherited them because we had Saffold and Havenstein, then acquired Whit and Sully for him to employ.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

Last offseason, I expected the Rams to be gearing up to move forward to a SB win, similar to the improvement between 2017 to 18. The offseason doubt was our OL, which did end up taking us down. The frustration with facing another entire offseason of the same basic concern and debate with a few new twists is very understandable to me.

 

[OldSchool]

Many of his detractors will point out he didn't "develop" the 2017 and 2018 O lines. He inherited them because we had Saffold and Havenstein, then acquired Whit and Sully for him to employ.

And many of those detractors are just finding an excuse to be negative. Havenstein improved in 2017 and 18 and do you maybe think he had input on acquiring Whit and Sully or if that was all Snead and McVay. Hint we know those two work with their position coaches on getting players they'll have the most success with. It's far too easy to be negative when things take a down turn and it happens daily around here.

 

[PARAM]

Last offseason, I expected the Rams to be gearing up to move forward to a SB win, similar to the improvement between 2017 to 18. The offseason doubt was our OL, which did end up taking us down. The frustration with facing another entire offseason of the same basic concern and debate with a few new twists is very understandable to me.

True. The doubt last year was whether the new guys would be talented enough to take over for Saffold and Sullivan. I don't think any reasonable thinking fan expected that to happen in week 1. And the OL problems ended up taking us down as you say but with injuries instead of lack of talent. We haven't enough of a sample size to determine a lack of talent. In fact, it might end up being more talent than we thought with the emergence of Edwards, Evans and Corbett. I'm not down on Noteboom. Allen? Remains to be seen. As far as frustration and concern, that's what we do as fans isn't it? It's why optimists (not blind optimists) are needed to balance things out. Otherwise there might be suicides!!

 

[PARAM]

@jrry32

Who do you think is a more likely canidate to take over for Whitworth? Evans or Noteboom. And would the other be capable of taking over for Havenstein? Forgive me if I missed your opinion on this previously.

 

[BonifayRam]

With the conclusion of the Rams draft & the majority of the UDFA's being signed......we can NOW get a clearer ideal as to how our Rams Org. will move forward with its collected OL cadre as it relates to the RT post.

One very important question lingering since last season involved Veteran starting RT Rob Havenstein. Recently some elements have taken place. 1st-Early this past week Hav agreed to a reworked of his contract for the benefit of the Rams' salary cap issues. 2nd- This weekend the Rams did not draft an NFL OT. 3rd- Rams have not signed any UDFA OT.

It's evident as far as I am concerned now, based on all that has occurred with Hav's 2019 performance that @ some point unknown he incurred damage to his knee diagnosed as a torn Meniscus. It could have occurred in game 1, its just not known. NFL starting players do play with this injury but it will affect their performance due to the pain. Most OL'ers are not 6-8 330 plus pounds either. I would think all the extra lbs that he came into TC/ preseason did not help with this injury. That was clearly & fully on Hav.

It was during the Steelers gm. that he must have incurred more damage to that area that took him out for a series. I have commented on this before the Rams did not go into the Steelers' gm with a reserve OT. Hav's starting spot was filled by center Coleman Shelton. Hav did return for a series but was obvious Hav was in great pain & incapable of performing his duties. Hav was never seen again in the Ram OL for 2019.

Rams, now a 1/2 yr later are calculating & trusting on Hav to return to his pre 2019 performance & be in his best playing condition & fully healed as their starting RT for one more season. If Hav fails in this task then Snead under his management three 2nd yr OL'ers Bobby Evans, David Edwards & Chandler Brewer all standing by to take over the RT post. Here @ this 1 of 5 OL posts the Rams have this!

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

True. The doubt last year was whether the new guys would be talented enough to take over for Saffold and Sullivan. I don't think any reasonable thinking fan expected that to happen in week 1. And the OL problems ended up taking us down as you say but with injuries instead of lack of talent. We haven't enough of a sample size to determine a lack of talent. In fact, it might end up being more talent than we thought with the emergence of Edwards, Evans and Corbett. I'm not down on Noteboom. Allen? Remains to be seen. As far as frustration and concern, that's what we do as fans isn't it? It's why optimists (not blind optimists) are needed to balance things out. Otherwise there might be suicides!!

I guess my point is, for those of us who hold OL-play and sustaining drives as critical, it seems we're in for a rewind of last offseason in terms of debate and primary concerns.

I guess a lot of us hoped the run OL would be addressed in a bold, decisive, clear, obvious manner. I wonder if our FO is noticing the defensive front players being pumped into what we'll regularly face around the league?

 

[den-the-coach]

If Hav fails in this task then Snead under his management three 2nd yr OL'ers Bobby Evans, David Edwards & Chandler Brewer all standing by to take over the RT post. Here @ this 1 of 5 OL posts the Rams have this!

You sure to love Chandler Brewer.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

For all you Kromer bashers
I’m armed and ready!

 

[PARAM]

I guess my point is, for those of us who hold OL-play and sustaining drives as critical, it seems we're in for a rewind of last offseason in terms of debate and primary concerns.

I guess a lot of us hoped the run OL would be addressed in a bold, decisive, clear, obvious manner. I wonder if our FO is noticing the defensive front players being pumped into what we'll regularly face around the league?

And by "bold decisive manner" you mean the early drafts picks? Or maybe prior to the draft, a free agency signing other than Blythe (and possible Whitworth too)? I could see a UFA quelling concerns and debate to a degree, but a draft pick? I don't know how much faith we could possibly have in the 8th or 9th OT on the board or one of the OC's available in this draft. Well, I'm sure we could have faith but I don't know how much more founded that faith would have been than having faith Noteboom, Edwards, Evans and Corbett would develop into much better players in 2020.