Kromer

[FarNorth]

This is our line in 2020, unless we make a trade. Our earliest pick was #52, and there wasn't a dominant OL prospect on the board. My point was that we didn't spackle a line together with UDFAs and late round picks. We have a quality LT. We have a RT who struggled last year but was a second round pick and very good in 2017 and 2018.

We have our third round pick from 2019, who performed decently when thrown into the fire. We have our fifth round pick from 2019, who performed decently when thrown into the fire. We have our third round pick from 2018. He looked good at OT, not so much at LG.

We have our fourth round pick from 2018. He didn't look good at Center. We have the #33 pick from 2018. He was serviceable at LG despite joining the team midseason and was expected to be a better C than G. We have the seventh round pick who started at OG on our Super Bowl team and looked decent at C last year.

That's without yet getting into Anchrum, who is a college OT moving inside. He's a pretty talented guy, just short. But his arm length is more than adequate for OG. I also was impressed by Chandler Brewer last year in the little he played. He might end up being something. I don't think we're in dire straights, and I understand why McVay and Kromer are willing to risk it. Let's say we trot out this OL in Week 1:
LT: Whitworth
LG: Evans
C: Corbett
RG: Edwards
RT: Havenstein
6th OL: Blythe
7th OL: Brewer
8th OL: Anchrum
9th OL: Allen
PUP: Noteboom (assuming he's not ready)

Yes, there's uncertainty, but we've seen Whit and Hav consistently be quality starters. Edwards didn't look out of place as a rookie. He SHOULD be better (no guarantees). Evans played serviceably at RT as a rookie and has a skill-set that arguably fits better at OG. He won't have to protect the corner from speedy edge rushers. Corbett has always had a lot of potential at C. Him or Blythe should be able to give us solid or better play at Center.

The thing about an OL is that good OLs are the sum of their parts, not the individuals within it. It's more important to have solid guys across the board than a couple dominant guys surrounded by liabilities, weakest link and all. Yes, it takes some faith, but I think our OL has the ability to get the job done. I can't guarantee it will, but it also is unlikely that the Rams are going to give up on their young OLs after one season.

Like your line up for the o-line, especially if Corbett can step up at center. McVay also commented about Havenstein coming back healthy, seems he expects him to return to form. This configuration could actually look good if they can get some practice together going forward.

 

[jrry32]

@jrry32

Who do you think is a more likely canidate to take over for Whitworth? Evans or Noteboom. And would the other be capable of taking over for Havenstein? Forgive me if I missed your opinion on this previously.

Noteboom seems like the LT of the future. He looked pretty good there when he played in 2018. Evans could play RT, but he might kick in and stay at OG. He has the length for RT, but his feet make him a better fit at OG.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

And by "bold decisive manner" you mean the early drafts picks? Or maybe prior to the draft, a free agency signing other than Blythe (and possible Whitworth too)? I could see a UFA quelling concerns and debate to a degree, but a draft pick? I don't know how much faith we could possibly have in the 8th or 9th OT on the board or one of the OC's available in this draft. Well, I'm sure we could have faith but I don't know how much more founded that faith would have been than having faith Noteboom, Edwards, Evans and Corbett would develop into much better players in 2020.

If picks "wouldn't help us in the upcoming season," that makes it more critical to grab somebody now, not less. That's just saying the plan is to fall behind even further.

 

[OldSchool]

Which is addressed in the 2nd half of my comment that you didn't quote I believe.

 

[PARAM]

If picks "wouldn't help us in the upcoming season," that makes it more critical to grab somebody now, not less. That's just saying the plan is to fall behind even further.

I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying draft picks wouldn't help the Rams, I was saying drafting OL wouldn't have helped your off season angst, or shouldn't have helped any more than the draft picks they made in 2018 and 2019. Had we have taken an OT in this draft it would have been the 8th or 9th OT taken, not one of the top 3. The OC's were nothing to "bank on" either. I read evaluations of Cushenberry that said he was ill suited for a zone run scheme and the second kid (from Temple), who actually went before him was on the smallish side and may have struggled against the bigger DTs.. Of course I don't know if that's true or not but apparently our war room staff weren't impressed enough to take them.

My point is, if you would have been excited about our OL's potential had they drafted an OT, C or G in the second round how is that any different from hoping they got it right in 2018 and 2019? Noteboom, Allen, Evans and Edwards gained experience and that might make them better players going forward. Many have said, it's possible our staff didn't believe any of them on the board (within reach) would have been better than what we have and it seems logical. Of course we could have put a package together to move into the first round to get one but what would that have cost us? How many guys from our draft board would we have had to sacrifice to get a high OL prospect?

In my mind even had we done that, the angst still should have been present because nobody knows how those guys are going to work out in the NFL. At least for me it would have been. I'm in the camp, we've spent draft capital on 5 guys and they didn't do bad last year, all (save Corbett) starting for the first time in their career. We had the #7 offense, #11 scoring offense in the league with 4 different first time starters and a guy Fast Freddie Kitchens benched, plus two vet OT's who were inconsistent for part of the year and 1 of those missed 7 games plus Austin Blythe. Not bad at all IMHO. In other words, I don't think they're falling further behind. They're actually taking advantage of the guys with NFL experience. Drafting more youngsters for those positions would have been falling further behind......and in more areas than just the OL.

 

[Reddog99]

This is just my opinion but I'm not willing to give up on Kromer yet. With only one "bad" year it doesn't seem fair to break out the pitch forks. It's possible with him having too much on his plate last year along with the injuries he was hit with somewhat of a snowball effect. Let's see what he does this year with the continuity of the same guys and hopefully no injuries along with focusing on the OL only and maybe hes back in everyone's good graces. If the OL finishes this year ranked 31 or worse then it might be time to get the man some better talent or find his replacement. I'll be honest im not confident in the line with the guys we have even after the second half of the season last year. But I do have hope that Whit didn't decline too much and that Boom steps in and does well before seasons end. I have hope that Hav returns to 2018 form and that Corbett, Edwards and Evans got stronger and Improved. I believe there will be some improvement on the OL but my expectations are middle of the pack at best.

 

[nighttrain]

expecting improvement for sure, how much we will see
train

 

[Memphis Ram]

Many of his detractors will point out he didn't "develop" the 2017 and 2018 O lines. He inherited them because we had Saffold and Havenstein, then acquired Whit and Sully for him to employ.

Count me in that group.

Kromer's other major success story in the league came in New Orleans when he inherited two VETERAN stud OGs in Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks and a vet free agent C in Jonathan Goodwin. All blocking for a future Hall of Famer in Brees who gets the ball out quickly.

In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if he must have VETERANS or 1st round talents to be successful. With the exception of 1st rounder Kyle Long in Chicago has he ever given a rookie a chance to start without an injury forcing his hand? My guess is that any rookie that would have been drafted would probably be sitting on the bench this year behind someone already on the roster.

 

[PARAM]

Count me in that group.

Kromer's other major success story in the league came in New Orleans when he inherited two VETERAN stud OGs in Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks and a vet free agent C in Jonathan Goodwin. All blocking for a future Hall of Famer in Brees who gets the ball out quickly.

In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if he must have VETERANS or 1st round talents to be successful. With the exception of 1st rounder Kyle Long in Chicago has he ever given a rookie a chance to start without an injury forcing his hand? My guess is that any rookie that would have been drafted would probably be sitting on the bench this year behind someone already on the roster.

What about his two years in Buffalo? Led the league in rushing yards and ypc both years. Had a rookie and a 2nd year guy on those lines.

 

[Memphis Ram]

What about his two years in Buffalo? Led the league in rushing yards and ypc both years. Had a rookie and a 2nd year guy on those lines.

True. He had a 3rd round guard Jordan Miller start. He also inherited veterans Cordy Glenn & Eric Wood, while vet FA pickup Richie Incognito joined the team the same year he got there. Eventually, the 2nd year OT got replaced by vet pickup Jordan Mills after 10 games.

I'd be more impressed with the rushing stats if the Bills weren't running a Greg Roman offense with QB Tyrod Taylor picking up about 1,100 of those rushing yards at almost a 6 ypc carry clip though.

 

[majrleaged]

Welp, we missed the playoffs last year because of the starting Oline, which became an all men-on-deck moment for Kromer. due to injuries.
Spin it any way you want Snead and McVay, it's on you if it happens again this year.

errr...if there IS a this year! lol

The line wasn't good, but I would put a big fat piece of the blame pie on the defense last year as well. They couldn't stop the run at all. Plus we had offenses using 4 guys on AD and no one else could make a play. Our offense was good enough to make the playoffs if the D could of come thru against Tampa or Dallas, like they should have. Don't forget the frisco game at the end when they converted 2 3 and 16 to ice the game. Lot more than the Oline cost us the playoffs and Snead and McVay have done a lot to shore up the team this offseason. If the season plays our Rams will be in the playoffs.

 

[rams1fan]

Don't forget what Kromer did for our woeful 2016 OL when he arrived in 2017 - turned them into one of the best NFL OLs in 2017 and 2018. His OL was decimated by injuries in 2019.

Time for the master to work his magic again!

But we added two veterans in Whitfield and Sullivan. four fifths of that 2017 to 2018 lines were vets. Scaffold, Whitfield, Sullivan and havenstein. Now he has to prove it with youngsters

 

[PhillyRam]

Coaching an o-line before the season is one thing. Making adjustments to the o-line during the season is IMO the true test of a coach. When the right side was falling apart with Blythe and Havenstein, Kromer did nothing. Not until forced by injuries to Allen and Havenstein did Kromer make adjustments. What I saw from that point on were young guys who played with some very poor fundamentals in technique. He tried to adjust to a gap blocking scheme that worked better than the simplistic outside zone he was exclusively using but the line was horribly inconsistent. Many times success of a run play had more to do with defensive mistakes than good o-line execution.

Remember, last season for all intents and purposes Kromer was the running game, offensive coordinator. Yet all he installed was a very simplistic outside zone run scheme? Outside zone runs depend upon the defense losing gap control to be successful. Good defenses expecting that scheme can simply stuff the run by maintaining their gap responsibilities. Kromer had not installed a counter to keep the defenses guessing. If you don't have an inside run attack then play action is less effective. When Kromer tried to switch to a gap scheme it was clear from the poor execution that the o-line really didn't understand how to execute the scheme. That is poor coaching.

Top run attacks use multiple blocking schemes to keep defenses guessing. Outside zone, inside zone, inside trap, to name a few, and each has variations. Why didn't Kromer use them? Why didn't his o-line know how to execute these other schemes? I'm sorry but these are all signs of poor o-line coaching and prep.

This is why I think we are going to see a whole new offense this year. Under O'Connell I think we will see a whole new offense starting with the run game. I think people who think this is going to stay with one workhorse RB named Akers, are going to be surprised when that isn't the case. Akers and Henderson are very similar in the type of RBs that they are. I think they will split snaps and will thrive in a power run attack. The Rams don't have a FB but they just drafted a TE who has the speed and size to be a good lead blocker and who has demonstrated he can execute a very good wham block in college.

The advantage an offense has when it has 2 RBs with similar capabilities is that there is no change that the defense can key upon. The offense still has their whole playbook open. Kromer has an impressive resume but I saw nothing of that last year. This year is a whole new thing and Kromer has an opportunity to deliver. Personally I find it very revealing that McVay didn't promote Kromer to OC and went outside the organization to hire McConnell. That would seem to suggest that Sean shares some if not all of what I see about Aaron Kromer.

The left side was actually falling apart when Blythe first got hurt and Demby played a handful of games, not long after Blythe got back, then Allen went down. Of course on the right side Noteboom went down prior fo that.

When you think about the sequence of events, its clear youth & injuries were the major issue. The real troubling issue was Havenstein's fall off in play. Hopefully he can return to form so the depth is there in case Whit goes down etc..

 

[PhillyRam]

Don't get all passive aggressive about this. We are depending on a LT that we hope can provide consistent play at his age. Our Oline was a liability last year and no one can deny that...or at least not credibly deny it. I know I didn't say to fire Kromer, but you also can't live on the success of 2016 in 2020. The Rams braintrust thinks we can spackle together an Oline with late rounders and UDFA's, and I hope they are right.

They have a 2nd, two 3rds, a 4th and a 5th that were drafted in the previous two drafts. Those are mostly day 2 picks or early day 3. Not all late round picks and typical picks used for quality OL.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

It's not good to look at things in a vacuum. It's all about whose team is better than whose. The Rams Oline was 31st. In comparison to the rest of the league. They were practically the worst Oline of all. So, realistically how much can they improve in one offseason? Cracking the top 20 isn't likely.

O Lines don't make ten point jumps in the rankings without adding significant talent. How much improved do they have to be to be a playoff caliber unit? Top 12? I'd say at the least top 16. That's a 15 place jump in the rankings. Not likely. And quit praising the line play late in the season. It looked better but Goff was rolling out and McVay was using misdirection to cover the weakness. It was smoke and mirtors.

 

[dieterbrock]

I'd be more impressed with the rushing stats if the Bills weren't running a Greg Roman offense with QB Tyrod Taylor picking up about 1,100 of those rushing yards at almost a 6 ypc carry clip though.

And also added LeSean McCoy who had recently lead the NFL in rushing, and was in middle of 5 straight pro-bowls.

 

[MachS]

It's not good to look at things in a vacuum. It's all about whose team is better than whose. The Rams Oline was 31st. In comparison to the rest of the league. They were practically the worst Oline of all. So, realistically how much can they improve in one offseason? Cracking the top 20 isn't likely.

O Lines don't make ten point jumps in the rankings without adding significant talent. How much improved do they have to be to be a playoff caliber unit? Top 12? I'd say at the least top 16. That's a 15 place jump in the rankings. Not likely. And quit praising the line play late in the season. It looked better but Goff was rolling out and McVay was using misdirection to cover the weakness. It was smoke and mirtors.

Also have to agree with @LoyalRam, last year the lack of early season adjustments and failure of Noteboom/Allen have to be put on Kromer. But this year if the line doesn't improve.... man Snead and likely Kromer both are going to be in serious trouble. I still think they wanted Cushenberry in the 3rd and they got too cute. Dont care what McVay says, those draft video feeds are on delay, they are not live. I dont buy the "didnt have Terrell Lewis' phone number." Yea right! Now the entire organization is doubling down on Kromer and his young late rounders. Plus we have to pray Whit stays healthy at 38 years old, and Hav returns to '17 and '18 form, neither of which is guaranteed. So many things have to go right for this line to be good.