Kromer

[Memphis Ram]

Well, then I guess not only does he "need to inherit solid VETERANS or 1st round talents to be successful", he needs to jump on the coat tails of awesome offensive minds. Like I said. A fortuitous fellow with a blessed resume.

Wouldn't surprise me. If head coaching candidates consider the starting QB on a team as a major factor in choosing a spot (if provided more than one opportunity), why would coaches at other positions not do the same regarding the key personnel at their position of influence?

 

[PARAM]

Evaluating an O line requires many facets. The eyeball test is probably the best. Yards per carry is another. Sacks allowed is another. 3 and outs are yet another, though that may fall more on the OC than the offensive line (it's what got Greg Roman fired in Buffalo after just 18 games). Through the first 5 games with our original starting 5 on the OL, we averaged 2.4 three and outs per game. From week 6 though week 11, we averaged 4.0 per game. And then the last 5 weeks a more respectable 3.0, but not quite the 2.4 to start the season. In that particular area, things got worse after Noteboom went down and improved on the tail end of the season the longer the replacements played together (adjustments by McVay?). There is also the opponent factor. In the end, 3 different OL injuries, adjustments by the coaching staff, improvement by the replacements? and we finish 9-7. It seems like it could have been much, much worse.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Evaluating an O line requires many facets. The eyeball test is probably the best. Yards per carry is another. Sacks allowed is another. 3 and outs are yet another, though that may fall more on the OC than the offensive line (it's what got Greg Roman fired in Buffalo after just 18 games). Through the first 5 games with our original starting 5 on the OL, we averaged 2.4 three and outs per game. From week 6 though week 11, we averaged 4.0 per game. And then the last 5 weeks a more respectable 3.0, but not quite the 2.4 to start the season. In that particular area, things got worse after Noteboom went down and improved on the tail end of the season the longer the replacements played together. There is also the opponent factor. In the end, 3 different OL injuries, adjustments by the coaching staff, improvement by the replacements? and we finish 9-7. It seems like it could have been much, much worse.

IMO, with a 31st ranked OLine, it SHOULD have been must worse w/o a GREAT (not just good) defense.

 

[PARAM]

Wouldn't surprise me. If head coaching candidates consider the starting QB on a team as a major factor in choosing a spot (if provided more than one opportunity), why would coaches at other positions not do the same regarding the key personnel at their position of influence?

Absolutely. For OL coaches, OC's, DC's, etc. it also depends on how many offers are made, wouldn't you say? I would think if there were multiple, that might come into play as well as knowledge of the exisiting staff. If it's just one offer, it doesn't matter who's there, it's a paycheck. And in some cases, it may be an opportunity for promotion, like from OL coach to OC/OL coach. In Kromer's case, he previously worked with Trestman in Oakland. It is a "good ole boy" network. And if you have a talent for coaching, you're going to get new opportunities. If you don't, I don't expect you'd get many.

We are going to find out just how good Kromer is this year. The OL has been the target of many fans pointing blame although some point to the injuries while others claim it was a lack of talent and/or poor coaching. The only addition beyond re-signing Whitworth and Blythe is Anchrum in the 7th round. So Kromer will be working with the same players he worked with in 2019.

 

[Zaphod]

The line has been ineffective, yes. But the constant quoting of 'late-round picks' is just inaccurate hyperbole.

The line has three second rounders (Whit, Hav and Corbett), two third rounders (Note and Evans) and a fourth-rounder (Allen). Those are all day two picks.

Feel free to insult the choices if you don't like them, and the talent definitely didn't show last year, but saying they are all late round scrubs is just trying to re-frame the narrative in a way that, frankly, takes away from your argument because it appears dishonest.

We've spent draft capital. I wish we had spent more this year (one of our seconds). The line was hurt and disappointing. Kromer needs to show he can develop young talent. All good arguments. Saying that our line is all late-round nobodies isn't correct.

Just my two cents.

Likewise I just don’t understand the value people see in Havenstein, who has always struggled with speed rushers and showed up out of shape last year, so I don’t count on him regardless of where he was picked.

Noteboom struggled at guard, but I still have hope, the only question there is his recovery to me, and besides, I just can’t question Whitworth no matter how old.

Evans and Edwards were two picks who honestly proved that the draft can contribute the same year for the offensive line, though I’m not suggesting that they were mistake free, I personally expect them to progress, so I’m not really worried about tackle or guard.

Blythe nor Allen inspire confidence at center, and we darn well know what teams are going to do if our rushing attack is a one trick pony with outside zone, so that’s where I think it gets hit or miss because I really think our play action will work better with some gap blocking.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Absolutely. For OL coaches, OC's, DC's, etc. it also depends on how many offers are made, wouldn't you say? I would think if there were multiple, that might come into play as well as knowledge of the exisiting staff. If it's just one offer, it doesn't matter who's there, it's a paycheck. And in some cases, it may be an opportunity for promotion, like from OL coach to OC/OL coach. In Kromer's case, he previously worked with Trestman in Oakland. It is a "good ole boy" network. And if you have a talent for coaching, you're going to get new opportunities. If you don't, I don't expect you'd get many.

We are going to find out just how good Kromer is this year. The OL has been the target of many fans pointing blame although some point to the injuries while others claim it was a lack of talent and/or poor coaching. The only addition beyond re-signing Whitworth and Blythe is Anchrum in the 7th round. So Kromer will be working with the same players he worked with in 2019.

Yep. Like everyone else, I'm hoping for the best. And I'm especially hopeful that, if this serious (and far more important) virus situation allows, every OLineman on the roster gets a legit shot at winning a starting nod instead of a few being handed their positions. Especially, with the 2 extra roster spots as allowed by the CBA.

That means if even 7th rounder Tremayne Anchrum proves to be the best RG on the team in practices, then he starts even if he isn't the 5th best overall OLineman. If Blythe is a better center than Allen, then he starts at center and isn't moved over to RG where he isn't nearly as effective. Etc.. These guys simply aren't interchangeable.

Gee. Whatever happened to the days of finding and giving guys like Mike Gruttadauria and Tom Nutten a chance?

 

[Ram65]

After rereading the entire thread this is what I got
-
1. Kromer will get this year to get the offensive line back to being respectable with some help by McVay/McConnell. His obvious mistake was playing and keeping Demby after Noteboom went down. It was early in the season and maybe he wasn't comfortable playing a rookie that early but it was a bad call. I give Kromer credit after having to replace second-year players with rookies due to injuries, defenses having adjusted to the Rams offense and a lesser version of Todd Gurley to help the Rams stay in the hunt. Kromer did change things up with some power blocking later in the year which was effective.

2. The OP was about not drafting any offensive lineman until round #7. As has been noted the Rams got Corbett during the season last year, resigned Havenstein previously, Whit and Blythe. They have been drafting offensive lineman in the previous two years and now they have experience. There weren't many if any better offensive lineman that fit the Rams scheme that were available by the time the Rams picked at #52. It's time to roll with what they have. This is an organizational decision that involved McVay, Snead, McConnell Kromer and the scouting department. Looking at the draft I have to agree. The Ram can have competition amongst the players on the roster and the 7th round draft pick.

3. McVay and McConnell will make adjustments in the offense. I don't see wholesale changes. I know they aren't coming to me for suggestions. I did notice a draw play from Shotgun formation against the Bears that they hadn't been running. Things like that to change tendencies. I like changing in-game from 11P to 12P to make teams adjust for both. Mixing up the run blocking schemes. Continue to get the TEs involved. The Rams can get the running game back on track with Akers and Henderson who are quicker than Gurley was. That can be a big difference. Both can also catch out of the backfield which was off last year. Last year the offensive line opened up a lot of running lanes for Gurley that Akers and Henderson can exploit for longer gains.

4. The offensive line wasn't the only reason the Rams fell back some. The defense and special teams had problems as well. I think the defense and special teams improve to help the offense. At times the defense could not stop anyone. Looking for overall team improvement, not just the offensive line.

 

[MachS]

There weren't many if any better offensive lineman that fit the Rams scheme that were available by the time the Rams picked at #52. It's time to roll with what they have.

Couldn't disagree with this part more. There were numerous options in the 2nd round to improve the interior OL. NUMEROUS!! We could have found a new starting C and G within our first 3 picks. Or a OT to compete at RT or for a backup spot.

If for some reason they didn't win the starting job, which I find extremely hard to believe. Hunt or Hennesy/Cushenberry would've started day 1.... We still should have drafted one or two earlier for depth. We are one injury away from Demby starting again. ONE INJURY AWAY. You dont think we could have upgraded there? Come on man

 

[Ram65]

Couldn't disagree with this part more. There were numerous options in the 2nd round to improve the interior OL. NUMEROUS!! We could have found a new starting C and G within our first 3 picks. Or a OT to compete at RT or for a backup spot.

If for some reason they didn't win the starting job, which I find extremely hard to believe. Hunt or Hennesy/Cushenberry would've started day 1.... We still should have drafted one or two earlier for depth. We are one injury away from Demby starting again. ONE INJURY AWAY. You dont think we could have upgraded there? Come on man

Hunt was taken earlier in round 2 as the 39th pick. Cushenberry was not a good fit for the Rams zone blocking. He is on the smaller size at 307Lbs A good zone blocking fit but, similar to who the Rams have already at OC. Both the OC were taken well into round #3. Hennessey was taken #78 and Cushenberry was taken #83. OT Ezra Cleveland was available as IIRC the 8th or 9th OT was available. I didn't like him as I watched some video and he did not play with any aggression nor through the whistle. Hunt was on a lot of posters wish list including mine. It would have been interesting to see if the Rams would have taken him if he was available at #52 but, he wasn't. The value wasn't there to take Hennessey early and he went before the Rams round three pick.

I went and looked at the redraft thread and didn't see any offensive lineman taken in round two by posters here.

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

Hindsight Draft: What do you do as Rams GM?

Hey y'all, thought it would be fun for some of us if we got to play GM. The draft is over. We have the gift of hindsight of knowing who went where. If you were GM and were picking for the Rams, who would you pick at each slot? Here's a full list of the draft picks...

ramsondemand.com

 

[PARAM]

2. The OP was about not drafting any offensive lineman until round #7. As has been noted the Rams got Corbett during the season last year, resigned Havenstein previously, Whit and Blythe. They have been drafting offensive lineman in the previous two years and now they have experience. There weren't many if any better offensive lineman that fit the Rams scheme that were available by the time the Rams picked at #52. It's time to roll with what they have. This is an organizational decision that involved McVay, Snead, McConnell Kromer and the scouting department. Looking at the draft I have to agree. The Ram can have competition amongst the players on the roster and the 7th round draft pick.

4. The offensive line wasn't the only reason the Rams fell back some. The defense and special teams had problems as well. I think the defense and special teams improve to help the offense. At times the defense could not stop anyone. Looking for overall team improvement, not just the offensive line.

Good post. I agree with practically all of it but I wanted to especially comment on #2 and #4.

#2: This narrative there were plenty of lineman available for the Rams to upgrade in the second isn't accurate. There were plenty of lineman available but whether they were upgrades is a hard point to argue. I keep hearing about Cushenberry from LSU and I keep reading he wasn't a fit in a zone running scheme. So why would they take someone who doesn't fit? Hennessy was rated a pretty good pass blocker but not real stout as a run blocker. Some thought he'd excel in a man blocking scheme. Fit again, or lack there of? Ezra Cleveland was a huge LT prospect who needs developing. So should we have taken a project LT (I'm remembering a couple we drafted not too long ago) when we have a bunch of OTs on the roster? Whitworth, Havenstein, Noteboom and Evans? Truth is many fans just wanted anybody for the OL. Not that it would have actually been an improvement, it would have been the perception of trying to improve a deemed weakness for fans and not the coaching staff.

#4: This is something many fans forget when droning on and on about how bad the O line played. First of all, the O line had a lot of issues and IMHO, those issues were the result of injuries, replacements and a lack of continuity. But as Memphis and others have pointed out, the offense averaged something like 27 PPG in the first 5 games. If the defense showed up against Tampa and Zeurlein makes a kick against Seattle, we're 11-5. Hell add to that if the defense didn't shit the bed twice on San Fran's final drive in week 16, we might have won that game too.

I think they attacked this draft practically perfectly. They filled huge needs with huge talent in the first 4 picks and then grabbed a stud TE that fell to them with the 4th round pick. Then grabbed another good player in the 6th and 3 projects in the 7th. WTF is not to like about that....other than they didn't fill a perceived need of the fans?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Lol OUTSTANDING!!! Coaching.

Kind of like the outstanding coaching in the Super bowl against New England? Or the coaching that had the Rams switch back to 11 personnel against Dallas last season?

Give me a break with your flamboyance.

You can love the Oline. It’s your prerogative. You can believe that they can make it deep into the playoffs with a bottom third ranked line. But I won’t. I should be from Missouri because I need them to ‘show me’. I’ve bought into false expectations with this team all through the 90’s and most of this century. Fans telling me that the team, or in this case the Oline, will improve on blind faith is an old song and dance that I don’t play anymore. I saw a huge regression in one year with players that the coaches were banking on to be good. It’s enough for me to not be too optimistic for the coming season.

Besides, it is much nicer to set my expectations lower and be pleasantly surprised than to drink the Kool-aid, get all hyped up and be disappointed. I’m a skeptic at heart. So go try to convince some other gullible fan who buys your theatrics.

 

[Corbin]

2016-2018 Kromer was a genius?
2019 he’s a bum?

Did he somehow forget to coach in the last year? Or were there other factors like injuries and player inconsistency involved like starting rookies?

I don’t know, sounds like a mystery to me. Going to have to add this to the Bermuda Triangle, sasquatch, and Loch Ness Monster pile and hope we figure this mystery out one day.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Lol OUTSTANDING!!! Coaching.

Kind of like the outstanding coaching in the Super bowl against New England? Or the coaching that had the Rams switch back to 11 personnel against Dallas last season?

Give me a break with your flamboyance.

You can love the Oline. It’s your prerogative. You can believe that they can make it deep into the playoffs with a bottom third ranked line. But I won’t. I should be from Missouri because I need them to ‘show me’. I’ve bought into false expectations with this team all through the 90’s and most of this century. Fans telling me that the team, or in this case the Oline, will improve on blind faith is an old song and dance that I don’t play anymore. I saw a huge regression in one year with players that the coaches were banking on to be good. It’s enough for me to not be too optimistic for the coming season.

Besides, it is much nicer to set my expectations lower and be pleasantly surprised than to drink the Kool-aid, get all hyped up and be disappointed. I’m a skeptic at heart. So go try to convince some other gullible fan who buys your theatrics.

Flamboyance?? Theatrics?? I see that more of that in this last response than anything posted in this thread.

Take the Rams out of the picture. Let's just go with TEAM A. Again we aren't talking about the Rams anymore.

Do you really believe that good coaching alone can get a football team (TEAM A) that truly has the 31st best (ranked) offensive line to within a missed FG from going 10-6 and a playoff birth? When everything is said to begin in the trenches? Minus having a great defense and special teams, how is that not done with outstanding coaching?

OR it is possible that the so-called ranking being posted over and over is severely lacking?

Nobody is saying that they love the OLine, there isn't any room for improvement, or even that they will be great this year. We are simply acknowledging that there was improvement towards the end of last season and that if they keep on that track and remain healthy this season they can be a playoff caliber team this year. And especially with the extra playoff spot that would have had them and their so-called 31st ranked OLine in the playoffs last year.

 

[PARAM]

Lol OUTSTANDING!!! Coaching.

Kind of like the outstanding coaching in the Super bowl against New England? Or the coaching that had the Rams switch back to 11 personnel against Dallas last season?

Give me a break with your flamboyance.

You can love the Oline. It’s your prerogative. You can believe that they can make it deep into the playoffs with a bottom third ranked line. But I won’t. I should be from Missouri because I need them to ‘show me’. I’ve bought into false expectations with this team all through the 90’s and most of this century. Fans telling me that the team, or in this case the Oline, will improve on blind faith is an old song and dance that I don’t play anymore. I saw a huge regression in one year with players that the coaches were banking on to be good. It’s enough for me to not be too optimistic for the coming season.

Besides, it is much nicer to set my expectations lower and be pleasantly surprised than to drink the Kool-aid, get all hyped up and be disappointed. I’m a skeptic at heart. So go try to convince some other gullible fan who buys your theatrics.

Damn man, why all the anger? This board and any other are a collection of OPINIONS. There is use of stats and rankings sprinkled in but neither of them make an opinion FACT. Opinions are obviously strong in some cases. Yours is, as is mine. No need for "flamboyance" comments or "go try to convince some other gullible fan who buys your theatrics". That's unnecessary and usually elicits more unnecessary crap in exchange. Many of us have been guilty of that both ways.

On the PFF rankings they are a subjective formula to rank all the facets of the game. IMHO, ranking QBs, RBs, WRs, DBs, LBs and DL is easier because of the hard stats available. I think ranking OL is probably the hardest as they can't be 100% sure what their responsibility actually is on any given play. It's why I trust our on staff evaluators because they see the live action, the game film, the practices, etc. and are more in tuned than PFF or Football Outsiders or any ranking body. The staff also see the progress and development outside of game situations as they can script that stuff to see what the reaction will be.

So you are of the "show me" ilk and I have no problem with that. I still want to be shown also but going in I'm a little less skeptical than you. So sue me.

 

[Soul Surfer]

I think Kromer needs to ditch the "Run Game Coordinator" hat and stick to just being the offensive line coach.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Flamboyance?? Theatrics?? I see that more of that in this last response than anything posted in this thread.

Take the Rams out of the picture. Let's just go with TEAM A. Again we aren't talking about the Rams anymore.

Do you really believe that good coaching alone can get a football team (TEAM A) that truly has the 31st best (ranked) offensive line to within a missed FG from going 10-6 and a playoff birth? When everything is said to begin in the trenches? Minus having a great defense and special teams, how is that not done with outstanding coaching?

OR it is possible that the so-called ranking being posted over and over is severely lacking?

Nobody is saying that they love the OLine, there isn't any room for improvement, or even that they will be great this year. We are simply acknowledging that there was improvement towards the end of last season and that if they keep on that track and remain healthy this season they can be a playoff caliber team this year. And especially with the extra playoff spot that would have had them and their so-called 31st ranked OLine in the playoffs last year.

changing your tune now. I told you that you aren't convincing me of anything. I saw what the coaches rolled with to begin the season. It was terrible. Did they not make those decisions? It's not like they hadn't seen these guys practice. To make it worse Demby was the first guy off the bench. Evans, Edwards, or even Brewer were better choices. And McVay went to the rollouts and misdirection because he had little choice. He didn't invent the idea though. In fact several posters on this forum were asking why he wasn't doing that very thing, weeks before he did. The movement helped a good QB get the ball to some very good receivers. The team is not devoid of talent. Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, Woods, Goff. They should be close to playoffs. They don't have a roster like Cinncinnati or Miami.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Damn man, why all the anger? This board and any other are a collection of OPINIONS. There is use of stats and rankings sprinkled in but neither of them make an opinion FACT. Opinions are obviously strong in some cases. Yours is, as is mine. No need for "flamboyance" comments or "go try to convince some other gullible fan who buys your theatrics". That's unnecessary and usually elicits more unnecessary crap in exchange. Many of us have been guilty of that both ways.

On the PFF rankings they are a subjective formula to rank all the facets of the game. IMHO, ranking QBs, RBs, WRs, DBs, LBs and DL is easier because of the hard stats available. I think ranking OL is probably the hardest as they can't be 100% sure what their responsibility actually is on any given play. It's why I trust our on staff evaluators because they see the live action, the game film, the practices, etc. and are more in tuned than PFF or Football Outsiders or any ranking body. The staff also see the progress and development outside of game situations as they can script that stuff to see what the reaction will be.

So you are of the "show me" ilk and I have no problem with that. I still want to be shown also but going in I'm a little less skeptical than you. So sue me.

I'm not sure why you think being a skeptic makes me "ilk". You can think what you like about the Oline and get all giddy about it and call me names. It doesn't bother me. I hope your right and they end up being the best line in the NFL. But I won't be betting on it, until I see it.

Back to telling me not to be angry, ever notice that I don't use caps or bold to make my statements? That's because it connotes yelling, anger or frustration. Memphis and I seldom agree on anything. The caps, bold and exclamations though, they are just BS. No reason for it. If anyone is angry it's him. I was laughing when I replied to him. The argument itself is just inane. The line was bad last year. Everyone saw it. I don't care if they were 31 or 26, they were bad. I don't even know what his point is outside of telling me I'm wrong and that the Oline was good and the coaches are geniuses for their choices. He can think what he wants, so can you but there's no reason to yell at me over it. When the Rams Oline moves up in the rankings because they are actually a good unit, I'll be fine with it. Elated actually. I love when the Rams have a very good offensive line. But until then, the only proof of their ability that we can go by is last season.

 

[MachS]

Dude what are you talking about? That was after Demby wet the bed earlier in the season and obviously Kromer had seen enough. He is still on the roster at this moment right? And week 1 we will not have Noteboom or Allen ready. So if we suffer an injury to the interior, Demby will likely be starting again. If Corbett, Blythe, or Edwards goes down we are fucked. Who do you think will start over Demby? Shelton, Brewer?? IF we suffer an early season injury to our interior line, we will have to start a 7th rounder in Demby who shouldn't even be in the NFL, or one of the two UDFAs who have never played a snap. What is hard to understand about that? We have no depth at all on the interior OL. If we drafted a 2nd or 3rd round interior lineman, they would get the nod in that situation over Demby obviously. Thats my point.