Jeff Fisher Anyone?

[Stranger]

coaching influence is highly overrated and outside factors influence team success much much more.

Bingo.

A team need only lose one or two of their 'centerpieces', and things can go south in a hurry. Consecutive bad drafts can also leave you talent deficient a few years down the road. Multiple unfortunate incidents will make a team very uncompetitive. Knute Rockne couldn't muster a speech good enough to overcome some of those things.

The team alway takes-on the personality of its head coach, and these repeated on-field mistakes are the sign of a pervailing attitude that it's okay to fail. This is basically what Orlando said in his interview this week, which I posted here, and I am convinced that this is our more significant issue.

Further, I don't think this coach will make the approprate changes within himself until he fails at this job. I saw the same with Dick Vermeil when he was the coach of the Eagles... it took 14 years away from coaching and a revolt by the Ram players for Vermeil finally to see the errors in his ways.

No, only way we are going to suceed is with another regime. And while I hate the prospect of starting over, I see this as the ONLY option now.

I was all for Jeff Fisher when we lost Linehan, and now I'd take either Fisher or Gruden in a heart beat. What we do at GM I don't know. But when I learned that this current regime pulled-down all of the GSOT memorabila, it was the final straw for me. In my 40 years of being a fan of the Rams, I've never been this pissed-off at management.

The team always takes on the personality of its head coach? How's that? Baltimore has had a couple of head coaches in Ray Lewis' tenure and their defense remains the same. Pittsburgh has had a couple of head coaches, and they haven't changed. Tampa went from Dungy (nice guy) to Gruden (yeller) to Raheem Morris, and they haven't changed much. Indianapolis went from Dungy to Caldwell and their production or personality didn't alter.

What about Vermeil and Martz? Same teams, same results (almost). I'd be more inclined to believe that teams take on the personality of their veteran leadership, if we're going to talk about personalities. As far as team identity, that's always a product of the system. Since 2008, this would now be the third (system).

I guess a bunch of us are just going to differ on this. Some would like to point a finger at one specific thing, and others are more inclined to itemize the list.

Okay, I will "amend" stated rule, that "teams take-on personality of head coach", as follows:

Teams take-on personality of head coach, unless there is a strong existing tradition of personality across the players, existing management, or ownership. In said exceptions, head coach may have limited influence on part or all of team.

In this situation, I'm not separating the coaching staff from management, as they (for the sake-of-my-argument) came into together and together developed the personality, or lack thereof, of the current franchise.

In summary, I guess I've alread shut-off. I've heard enough detailed explainations, listened to enough argument, and hence, I've reached the point of no-return. Perhaps I'm irrational, perhaps not. In short, I don't like what I've seen, and no further analysis is going to have an impact on me.

Time to bring the GSOT influence into the organization. The Rams nation has a huge inventory of players that know what it takes to be a professional and how to win. Let's get them involved and continue the great and proud traditions that they instilled in this franchise.

 

[Selassie I]

I want to throw something in concerning the PENALTIES that has not been discussed.

It's not always lack of focus that causes them.

When a young player who has always been a superior talent to his competitors gets matched up against players who are equal in talent (sometimes even better than them) for the first time... stupid mistakes happen as a result of trying to compensate. Trying to gain an advantage against an equal comes down to the little things and experience.

Sometimes a young player has the superior talent, but the experience of the older, less talented player, provides a major advantage. The young player tries to compensate.



One more thing... the DROPS happen for the same basic reason.
Experience allows you to be able to relax and do the things you can normally do without even thinking.


Experience can't be coached.

 

[Ram Quixote]

holy crap i started a 7 page thread! lol


but um its game over for spags. there is a load of talented coaches that are proven winners other there. if this world makes any sense then spags is a goner.

Yes. Clap. Clap. Clap.

But um, it's not game over for Spags. And if the world made any sense, there wouldn't be SEVEN cornerbacks, from one team, on injured reserve right now.

If the world made sense, Spags would've had one normal offseason in 3 years, but that hasn't happened.

1. Player/salary cap dump, leaving expansion level talent.
2. Cap-less year, preventing the signing of the type of FAs needed to upgrade the talent.
3. Where to start? OC moves on to become a HC elsewhere, forcing the hiring of a new OC and his system. The lockout prevents any meaningful preparation before training camp, which is also shortened by almost a week for the 13 veteran FAs (and few in-house) signed to upgrade the talent.

You can call these excuses if you want, but these are historical facts. And I didn't even mention the number of players on IR in those years or how in each season specific positions were hit hard.

 

[UnknownREknown]

If the players cant catch, tackle, block etc., then what f*** difference does it make whos our head coach? These guys are PROFESSIONALS. They cant perform, you'll be on the next coach's nuts.

Foreget Jeff Fisher....LETS GET NEW PLAYERS!

 

[Orfordram]

Only God knows what an egotistical billionaire might do, and He isn't watching the Rams.

As for Spags getting fired, I say that would be a gross miscarriage of justice. McDaniels (DeVaney's pick, obviously) and DeVaney himself, with his boy genius attitude toward personnel selection, are the primary problem IMHO.

About Fisher, the guy is a thorough GOON who teaches dirty football, and should have been banned from the league long ago. I say a big NO to that idea.

 

[phantmjokr]

Fisher

'04 5-11
'05 4-12
'06 8-8
'07 7-6
'08 13 -3 The playoff game against Baltimore included 3 red zone turnovers and 12 penalties by the Titans.
'09 8-8
'10 6-10

I don't get it...

Not to mention working at Rams park will likely give him nightmares...

"Oh. Someone cover Bruce. Oh, no. Crap. Tackle him. TACKLE HIM!!! No. Nooooo. Nooooo!!!!!"

 

[-X-]

Fisher

'04 5-11
'05 4-12
'06 8-8
'07 7-6
'08 13 -3 The playoff game against Baltimore included 3 red zone turnovers and 12 penalties by the Titans.
'09 8-8
'10 6-10

I don't get it...

Not to mention working at Rams park will likely give him nightmares...

"Oh. Someone cover Bruce. Oh, no. Crap. Tackle him. TACKLE HIM!!! No. Nooooo. Nooooo!!!!!"

Yeah, but, he has a menacing grimace.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

[Anonymous]

Fisher

'04 5-11
'05 4-12
'06 8-8
'07 7-6
'08 13 -3 The playoff game against Baltimore included 3 red zone turnovers and 12 penalties by the Titans.
'09 8-8
'10 6-10

I don't get it...

Not to mention working at Rams park will likely give him nightmares...

"Oh. Someone cover Bruce. Oh, no. Crap. Tackle him. TACKLE HIM!!! No. Nooooo. Nooooo!!!!!"

Yeah, but, he has a menacing grimace.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I am not advocating for the guy. I said all I needed to say about wanting Spags to improve himself and not get fired.

But anyone giving Spags a pass ,and a long list of excuses ,should not criticize nor co-sign a person who is criticizing Jeff Fisher. That would be beyond hypocritical.

In 15 years where was the HC for all 16 games, Jeff Fisher has only 5 losing seasons. He has 6 playoff appearences and a Super Bowl .


10 of the 15 seasons he had a defense in the top 15 in points allowed. 11 of the 15 years his team was top 10 in run defense (discipline....run stoppage is talent plus discipline)


13 of the 15 seasons his team was in top 15 in rushing yards


In short Fisher is proven to be a VERY GOOD coach. He has ran a tight ship, a disciplined ship and is a proven winner....Oh and his last 4 years he had Kerry Collins and Vince Young at QB. That along is an accomplishment :lmao:


Also a Former Ram Defensive coordinator...lol

What I am saying is....coach for coach Jeff Fisher is head and shoulders above Spags. If not for another change of culture, I would have love to have Jeff. If he was available in 2009, that would have been the much better choice. But he wasn't, we have Spags, and I hope he make the needed adjustments this season with a hope that we win this division

I still feel Spags has the tools to be a great leader. But he also needs to work on getting this team more discipline. Thats my main gripe.

Yeah I don't know what planet those who say Fisher isn't an excellent coach are from. Fisher had enough sense to not want Vince Young and refused to play him. His billionaire team owner Adams forced him to play Young which lead to Fisher leaving. Anyone who can't see a record of continual rebuilding and improvement on Fisher teams is blind. The Titans were forced into the worst degree of salary cap hell and he brought them back to 13-3! Rams haven't shown shit compared to that. Fisher is also a tremendous motivator. If Spags goes I still hope Fisher can be the Rams HC.

 

[phantmjokr]

Fisher

'04 5-11
'05 4-12
'06 8-8
'07 7-6
'08 13 -3 The playoff game against Baltimore included 3 red zone turnovers and 12 penalties by the Titans.
'09 8-8
'10 6-10

I don't get it...

Not to mention working at Rams park will likely give him nightmares...

"Oh. Someone cover Bruce. Oh, no. Crap. Tackle him. TACKLE HIM!!! No. Nooooo. Nooooo!!!!!"

Yeah, but, he has a menacing grimace.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I am not advocating for the guy. I said all I needed to say about wanting Spags to improve himself and not get fired.

But anyone giving Spags a pass ,and a long list of excuses ,should not criticize nor co-sign a person who is criticizing Jeff Fisher. That would be beyond hypocritical.

In 15 years where was the HC for all 16 games, Jeff Fisher has only 5 losing seasons. He has 6 playoff appearences and a Super Bowl .


10 of the 15 seasons he had a defense in the top 15 in points allowed. 11 of the 15 years his team was top 10 in run defense (discipline....run stoppage is talent plus discipline)


13 of the 15 seasons his team was in top 15 in rushing yards


In short Fisher is proven to be a VERY GOOD coach. He has ran a tight ship, a disciplined ship and is a proven winner....Oh and his last 4 years he had Kerry Collins and Vince Young at QB. That along is an accomplishment :lmao:


Also a Former Ram Defensive coordinator...lol

What I am saying is....coach for coach Jeff Fisher is head and shoulders above Spags. If not for another change of culture, I would have love to have Jeff. If he was available in 2009, that would have been the much better choice. But he wasn't, we have Spags, and I hope he make the needed adjustments this season with a hope that we win this division

I still feel Spags has the tools to be a great leader. But he also needs to work on getting this team more discipline. Thats my main gripe.

Here's a part of what I'm saying.

If 2 seasons at or below .500 ball and a poor start are the measure, Fisher would have been fired a dozen times.

The three year span around the SB appearance bought him a lot of time.

Does that mean I think he's a bad coach? No. Does it still mean I'm a little bit reluctant to think he's going to show up at Ramspark and have a magic wand? Yes.

Somewhere else I got in a discussion about the Falcons turnaround and mentioned all the stuff that went down when Patrino bailed on them, and some Razorback fan told me Patrino was an excellent coach. I did not argue that point. Arkansas is a good college football team. So, what's the point here? Sometimes the situation just swallows guys. Patrino got in a situation he couldn't change and couldn't get out of without looking bad doing it. He lost it.

Then there is Rod Marinelli with the Lions. 0-16. But Rod took all the heat for an 0-16 season, and I'm sure a lot of pro football people will tell you he's a good coach. He's the DC and asst HC in Chicago. The Lions situation at the time just swallowed him. At least when he lost, he faced everything they threw at him like a man and with dignity. And Schwartz is making a lot off of the one good thing Millen ever did, make the no brainer pick of Calvin Johnson.

To win, you have to be good and lucky. The '99 Rams are the poster team for that. Kurt, London Fletcher, Billy Jenkins? That was a lot of luck, but it was manufactured luck. DV just got a look at those guys an knew they could be players. The storty about DV seeing something in Kurt is now a part of the legend.

The Rams got a phone call from Indy asking if the Rams wanted Faulk? Why? Because even though they were being offered 2 first to start for Faulk from AFC East teams, Indy wanted to send Faulk somewhere where they thought he wouldn't hurt them in the future. So the Rams get him for a 2 and 5. The Rams didn't do anything to make that happen but be a bad team and answer the phone when it rang.

 

[Anonymous]

Then ol DV must have seen that something in KW after he left him exposed to the Browns expansion draft.

 

[joeybittick]

Then ol DV must have seen that something in KW after he left him exposed to the Browns expansion draft.

And given a free agent QB a huge deal the off season before...

 

[phantmjokr]

Then ol DV must have seen that something in KW after he left him exposed to the Browns expansion draft.

DV's always been a gambler. A lucky gambler.

 

[Anonymous]

Then ol DV must have seen that something in KW after he left him exposed to the Browns expansion draft.

And given a free agent QB a huge deal the off season before...

No doubt! DV lore increases each year which is funny considering he was Tony Banks biggest supporter.

 

[joeybittick]

Then ol DV must have seen that something in KW after he left him exposed to the Browns expansion draft.

And given a free agent QB a huge deal the off season before...

No doubt! DV lore increases each year which is funny considering he was Tony Banks biggest supporter.

I will always love DV, but I can also admit that he was extremely fortunate (i.e. lucky) that things worked out the way they did in 99.

 

[-X-]

What I am saying is....coach for coach Jeff Fisher is head and shoulders above Spags. If not for another change of culture, I would have love to have Jeff. If he was available in 2009, that would have been the much better choice. But he wasn't, we have Spags, and I hope he make the needed adjustments this season with a hope that we win this division

And if Jeff Fisher was the HC in 2009, instead of Spagnuolo, and the very same GM (he would still have the GM, by the way) had to scrap the team in 2009, and then draft a rookie QB, go through all the same instances of injuries and CBA issues in 2010, and then lose all of his corners (plus his starting RB) in 2011, after bringing in a new OC, his record would also reflect it. OR, Jeff Fisher's offensive coordinator in 2010 gets Bradford killed - as long as we're playing hypothetical situation.

And now we're talking about firing Jeff Fisher. Hope Spagnuolo is available next year.

THAT'S all I'm saying.

The things you call excuses have actually happened, or are happening. It's like missing work because you were hit by a car one year and got chicken pox the next year. Well, those are just excuses. A better employee wouldn't get hit by cars and would have gotten chicken pox as a kid. To that end, Bill from accounting is a better employee because he doesn't miss work at all. Let's fire you and promote Bill.

 

[phantmjokr]

Then ol DV must have seen that something in KW after he left him exposed to the Browns expansion draft.

And given a free agent QB a huge deal the off season before...

No doubt! DV lore increases each year which is funny considering he was Tony Banks biggest supporter.

This is probably the great lesson on the fact that to win, what you get right trumps what you get wrong. DV made a ton of mistakes and I've heard him admit to them. But he got it right in the end. He always did.

The guy coached a championship HS swim team and he had never been a competitive swimmer. Took a moribund UCLA program and took it to the Rose Bowl in a situation where his players at one point revolted. Won in Philly with a team that had only the bottom half of its drafts for most of the time he was there.

To me, in the end, it means nitpicking is way overrated...

 

[-X-]

I feel what you are saying bro....

But usually coaches that lose their jobs has , for lack of a better word, a sob story as well.

I think that if we had a vet / proven HC in 09 instead if a rookie we would be in a better situation. Rookie coach has growing pains....

Fisher wouldnt allow his QB to be killed. When he had the personnel he threw with Air McNair...when he didnt have the personnel he adjusted and had SEVERAL seasons where his starting QB was sacked less than 10 times in a season. He does not have a history of saying;

We're going to stick to the scheme because its proven to work

Because a Proven HC knows that just because a scheme is proven to work the cast may not be ready to run such scheme.

Just saying....

Again, I am rooting for Spags. But at the same time I am being honest. Spags and Co. (team included) has to change SOMETHING if they want DIFFERENT results....I mean doing the same thing expecting a different result would be INSANE

Well, now we're talking anyway. You get more results from talking than forming opinions from cursory readings of stats, quotes and op-ed pieces. What we're both doing now, though, is assuming. And you know what assuming means. You're assuming a vet coach wouldn't have the same problems Spags went through, and I'm assuming one would. Neither of us know for sure.

Andy Reid's team, with all of their talent and expectations, are 1-3. Philly fans are already calling for *his* head. Arizona fans are already saying the Kolb signing was a bad one. Kolb should be able to absorb a new system and get in sync with his receivers with 3 weeks of off-season too. Is it the rational thing to say and think? Of course not.

Oh, by the way, you're taking that quote from above out of context. You saw the press conference, I presume. He was asked about McDaniels' system, and if he's going to change it. He said he's not going to change it because it has proven to work, though he did say they're going to change some things within it - or about it - I can't remember the exact phrasing. And it's true. That system does work. It did work. It will work. Did it work immediately when installed in Denver? No. And did Denver have more than 3 weeks of camp to work on it? Of course they did. It still wasn't a success the first year though. McDaniels is still getting a feel for what his receivers can do and how they can fit within the system. Just like he did in Denver.

It goes back to something Squeaky said. Shurmur should have been retained for more than 2 years. He should have had a contract as long as Spagnuolo's instead of using the Rams as a job application for something better. As much as some disliked Shurmur's approach, that system was flexible and could fit a wide variety of offensive talent. If Bradford had another year in it, he wouldn't have these growing pains he's experiencing now. Nor would the offensive line, and to a lesser extent, the receivers.

What's this got to do with Spagnuolo? Not a whole lot.

And that tells me a whole lot.

 

[-X-]

Oh quit it...you know you it's been exciting :hehe:

Honestly, I'm trying to steer away from drama, and was doing a good job of it until you took your act on the road :razzed: .

It's like this. I've got pain in my hands now from broken knuckles from when I used to *like* to fight. Now I'm more into being a bodyguard. I don't fight anymore unless the fight comes to me. I know these guys (coaches and players) don't need my help, so I'm a freelancer.

But I do stay in shape. You know, just in case. :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

Well who ever is the coach next year(bob stoops maybe?) lets just hope they use the first 2 rounds wisely.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjiX7lS8V4&feature=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjiX7lS8V4&feature=related</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvUVI6nZvak&feature=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvUVI6nZvak&feature=related</a>

get bradford some real weapons

 

[Angry Ram]

Well who ever is the coach next year(bob stoops maybe?) lets just hope they use the first 2 rounds wisely.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjiX7lS8V4&feature=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjiX7lS ... re=related</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvUVI6nZvak&feature=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvUVI6nZ ... re=related</a>

get bradford some real weapons

Bob Stoops signed an extention to 2018.