Jeff Fisher Anyone?

[joeybittick]

Only problem I have with the OP is the phrase, "Let's face it. spags is going to get fired." I'm not prone to facing speculation. I do have a question for you guys though. What in the FAT hell could Jeff Fisher do with 7 DB's on IR, a sophmore QB in his third system, a star RB (focus of the offense) who gets injured on his first play from scrimmage, and 3 rookie receivers who missed all of OTA's and had 3 weeks to learn not just any playbook, but McDaniels' playbook? Maybe he'd cut everyone and scream and yell, but I can almost guarantee these Rams would still be 0-4.

So, let's face this. Fisher is going to get fired too. Now who you got?

As Faceplant just posted the WR and OL situations are inexcusable this late in Spags tenure....same for Devaney. 2nd system for SB is a concern....that's why you don't hire someone obviously looking to leave at the first hint of success. Shurmur wasn't a good hire in that respect. I'd also add that the defense hasn't exactly looked good either. 0-4.....sure I'm not surprised by that and I've said that in posts too. However the team is playing worse with each game. That is cause for concern. That points towards coaching.

took too long to get a backup RB and taking too long to get playmakers on WR.

As far as the OL, those guys are talented....it takes coaching. This team is a poorly coached team. Discipline and coaching up is the problem with the OL as well as the defense. We have enough raw talent on defense (before the injuries) and the OL to succeed at those areas. Personally I would love Fisher or Cower if Spags were to lose his position

As far as Billy D....I like him and think he done a good job for the most part. No one is perfect

Aren't those Devaney's responsibility?

I have said plenty I think about the backup RB thing for people to know where I stand on that (I think people just picked that spot to harp on; when you have a guy like SJAX who has put up HOF numbers why would you take him off the field?).

I just think people are being too rash. Did last year not happen?

 

[joeybittick]

Only problem I have with the OP is the phrase, "Let's face it. spags is going to get fired." I'm not prone to facing speculation. I do have a question for you guys though. What in the FAT hell could Jeff Fisher do with 7 DB's on IR, a sophmore QB in his third system, a star RB (focus of the offense) who gets injured on his first play from scrimmage, and 3 rookie receivers who missed all of OTA's and had 3 weeks to learn not just any playbook, but McDaniels' playbook? Maybe he'd cut everyone and scream and yell, but I can almost guarantee these Rams would still be 0-4.

So, let's face this. Fisher is going to get fired too. Now who you got?

As Faceplant just posted the WR and OL situations are inexcusable this late in Spags tenure....same for Devaney. 2nd system for SB is a concern....that's why you don't hire someone obviously looking to leave at the first hint of success. Shurmur wasn't a good hire in that respect. I'd also add that the defense hasn't exactly looked good either. 0-4.....sure I'm not surprised by that and I've said that in posts too. However the team is playing worse with each game. That is cause for concern. That points towards coaching.

took too long to get a backup RB and taking too long to get playmakers on WR.

As far as the OL, those guys are talented....it takes coaching. This team is a poorly coached team. Discipline and coaching up is the problem with the OL as well as the defense. We have enough raw talent on defense (before the injuries) and the OL to succeed at those areas. Personally I would love Fisher or Cower if Spags were to lose his position

As far as Billy D....I like him and think he done a good job for the most part. No one is perfect

Aren't those Devaney's responsibility?

I have said plenty I think about the backup RB thing for people to know where I stand on that (I think people just picked that spot to harp on; when you have a guy like SJAX who has put up HOF numbers why would you take him off the field?).

I just think people are being too rash. Did last year not happen?

Billy D do not discipline and coach up team. Yes the back up RB issue was his responsibility and like I said noone is perfect. Even Billy admitted they dropped the ball on taking so much time to get a back up RB.

And yes I agree...you don't take snaps away from SJ39. But you are suppose to be prepared in case he goes down or need a breather

Ah, OK, I get what you meant. I disagree that Spags needs to go, but I can respect what you are saying.

 

[-X-]

Isn't it strange how a head coach can be considered a good coach in 2010 when the team is winning, and the defense jumps up multiple tiers, yet the OC needs to go because the team isn't creative enough on offense and can't score at will with a rookie QB. And then when the OC leaves and the head coach becomes inundated with injuries, his OC leaves and the new one installs a new offense, he's all of a sudden a bad head coach and the newly hired OC is immune to criticism? This has got to be the whackiest trend I've ever seen.

I agree that the team isn't performing well, but the head coach is now the scapegoat? What about all the position coaches? Diplomatic immunity? Oh wait. They did well last year, so they TOO must have forgotten how to coach. What has changed from then til now? Let's list those in order.

No OTA's
3 weeks of camp
New OC and offensive system
7 (count 'em, seven) defensive backs on IR
Both starting receivers (Clayton, Amendola) lost to injury
3 rookie receivers (Kendricks, Pettis, Salas)
1 receiver who could be the best in the league, but has two bad knees
Starting RB lost to injury on first play of the season and still not 100%
60% changeover on defensive personnel.

Poorly coached how? Drops, penalties and miscues are more the result of everyone picking up a complex offensive system on the fly than a lack of screaming and yelling by the head coach. That's just common sense. On defense, they're trying to integrate Poppinga, Leber, Bannan, Quinn, Mikell and Harris (+ all the plug-n-play corners) into a defense that's also pretty complex. It should all be pretty seamless, right? C'mon.

I don't get the thinking around here. Start at the top and make changes until something gets better? But that's backwards thinking. It should start at the bottom and keep going up until things change. Make roster changes until someone steps up and claims a position. Scale the playbooks back to make them simpler and increase the complexity of the plays incrementally. Fire position coaches and promote assistants. Etcetera.

Firing the coach mid-season (nobody has suggested this, I know) and promoting an assistant does nothing. Ask Haslett. He sparked an offense that would have liked to have slashed the throat of the previous head coach (and won two whole games), but none of the players on this team have given up on the current head coach. So, look, Kroenke is a business man. If his product isn't selling, HE'LL be the one to make changes. We can speculate about it and all, but to make assumptions that the head coach isn't doing his job without taking anything else into consideration is foolish. But, we all have opinions, and I'm not saying mine is the only one. So, carry on.

Just make sure that you leave the disparaging remarks out of your "analyses", yeah? Thanks.

 

[joeybittick]

Isn't it strange how a head coach can be considered a good coach in 2010 when the team is winning, and the defense jumps up multiple tiers, yet the OC needs to go because the team isn't creative enough on offense and can't score at will with a rookie QB. And then when the OC leaves and the head coach becomes inundated with injuries, his OC leaves and the new one installs a new offense, he's all of a sudden a bad head coach and the newly hired OC is immune to criticism? This has got to be the whackiest trend I've ever seen.

I agree that the team isn't performing well, but the head coach is now the scapegoat? What about all the position coaches? Diplomatic immunity? Oh wait. They did well last year, so they TOO must have forgotten how to coach. What has changed from then til now? Let's list those in order.

No OTA's
3 weeks of camp
New OC and offensive system
7 (count 'em, seven) defensive backs on IR
Both starting receivers (Clayton, Amendola) lost to injury
3 rookie receivers (Kendricks, Pettis, Salas)
1 receiver who could be the best in the league, but has two bad knees
Starting RB lost to injury on first play of the season and still not 100%
60% changeover on defensive personnel.

Poorly coached how? Drops, penalties and miscues are more the result of everyone picking up a complex offensive system on the fly than a lack of screaming and yelling by the head coach. That's just common sense. On defense, they're trying to integrate Poppinga, Leber, Bannan, Quinn, Mikell and Harris (+ all the plug-n-play corners) into a defense that's also pretty complex. It should all be pretty seamless, right? C'mon.

I don't get the thinking around here. Start at the top and make changes until something gets better? But that's backwards thinking. It should start at the bottom and keep going up until things change. Make roster changes until someone steps up and claims a position. Scale the playbooks back to make them simpler and increase the complexity of the plays incrementally. Fire position coaches and promote assistants. Etcetera.

Firing the coach mid-season (nobody has suggested this, I know) and promoting an assistant does nothing. Ask Haslett. He sparked an offense that would have liked to have slashed the throat of the previous head coach (and won two whole games), but none of the players on this team have given up on the current head coach. So, look, Kroenke is a business man. If his product isn't selling, HE'LL be the one to make changes. We can speculate about it and all, but to make assumptions that the head coach isn't doing his job without taking anything else into consideration is foolish. But, we all have opinions, and I'm not saying mine is the only one. So, carry on.

Just make sure that you leave the disparaging remarks out of your "analyses", yeah? Thanks.

First off, my bad . I think I got too heated in some of my replies and I should say sorry to you guys for that.

And secondly, well said man :good1: I understand the frustration. It comes from the passion we all have for this team. And we know there is a ton of it in us (passion) or there is no way we would have hung around for the bad times and rooted our asses off despite the odds. I just really hope I do not have to see another head coach for a loooong time, because that will mean the team is playing how they should be playing.

 

[-X-]

I never said he needed to go. Said the team is poorly coached. I think X posted a article about the 5 things Spags should do....

I prefer Spags do those things and right this ship over getting another head coach.

I do feel this team is, and has been , poorly coached due to the lack of discipline and confusion. And the discipline is not only the players but the position coaches are also accountable.

I mean Spags fire equipment manager and other positions that serves no purpose but keeps Loney who has had failing OLs under his wing for over 4 to 5 years....

Spags has a lot to do if he want to keep his job.

Lets face it, yes we had a good year (if we can call 7 wins a good year) but it was an extremely weak schedule. When the pressure is on this team falls apart. I mean not even competing. Same misake from years ago.

It is a reflection of the coach when adjustments are made late and the team is unprepared and undiscipline

Spags still has time but he better change his approach because his current approach is not working

That's a fair post, but I still wish you would take everything else into account. I agree on-field performance is a reflection of the coach, but honestly, do you KNOW where he's falling short? Do you KNOW that he's not laying it down in the locker room or on the field? Personally, I believe this season has dramatically affected teams that have changed systems and not so much teams that haven't (G.B., N.E., N.O., BUF, DET, etc.) Those teams largely have the same guys, same systems, and same assistants.

 

[Faceplant]

I never said he needed to go. Said the team is poorly coached. I think X posted a article about the 5 things Spags should do....

I prefer Spags do those things and right this ship over getting another head coach.

I do feel this team is, and has been , poorly coached due to the lack of discipline and confusion. And the discipline is not only the players but the position coaches are also accountable.

I mean Spags fire equipment manager and other positions that serves no purpose but keeps Loney who has had failing OLs under his wing for over 4 to 5 years....

Spags has a lot to do if he want to keep his job.

Lets face it, yes we had a good year (if we can call 7 wins a good year) but it was an extremely weak schedule. When the pressure is on this team falls apart. I mean not even competing. Same misake from years ago.

It is a reflection of the coach when adjustments are made late and the team is unprepared and undiscipline

Spags still has time but he better change his approach because his current approach is not working

That's a fair post, but I still wish you would take everything else into account. I agree on-field performance is a reflection of the coach, but honestly, do you KNOW where he's falling short? Do you KNOW that he's not laying it down in the locker room or on the field? Personally, I believe this season has dramatically affected teams that have changed systems and not so much teams that haven't (G.B., N.E., N.O., BUF, DET, etc.) Those teams largely have the same guys, same systems, and same assistants.

Agreed. Then again, the whiners are 3-1. SMH.....

 

[joeybittick]

I never said he needed to go. Said the team is poorly coached. I think X posted a article about the 5 things Spags should do....

I prefer Spags do those things and right this ship over getting another head coach.

I do feel this team is, and has been , poorly coached due to the lack of discipline and confusion. And the discipline is not only the players but the position coaches are also accountable.

I mean Spags fire equipment manager and other positions that serves no purpose but keeps Loney who has had failing OLs under his wing for over 4 to 5 years....

Spags has a lot to do if he want to keep his job.

Lets face it, yes we had a good year (if we can call 7 wins a good year) but it was an extremely weak schedule. When the pressure is on this team falls apart. I mean not even competing. Same misake from years ago.

It is a reflection of the coach when adjustments are made late and the team is unprepared and undiscipline

Spags still has time but he better change his approach because his current approach is not working

That's a fair post, but I still wish you would take everything else into account. I agree on-field performance is a reflection of the coach, but honestly, do you KNOW where he's falling short? Do you KNOW that he's not laying it down in the locker room or on the field? Personally, I believe this season has dramatically affected teams that have changed systems and not so much teams that haven't (G.B., N.E., N.O., BUF, DET, etc.) Those teams largely have the same guys, same systems, and same assistants.

I have had the same thought, and now that you mention it I wanted to check it out. I do not feel like going into all of the coordinators right now as that would take a bit more digging than I feel up to, but I will just go through the standings real quick.

Of the 8 current division leaders, only one (San Fran) had a head coaching change in the offseason and 4 made a coordinator change(TB- no DC-, SF-new OC and DC-, Baltimore-DC-, Hou-DC-, SD-DC-) though TB did not name a DC as Morris is running that I believe and Baltimore promoted a position coach. So basically of the 8 top teams (so far) on SF and Houston (Wade Phillips) are breaking in new schemes.

Of the 8 teams at the bottom of their division, 3 had head coaching changes (Denver, Carolina, and Minnesota). Of the 8 bottom dwellers, 4 hired new Offensive Coordinators (Miami, Minnesota, Carolina, Rams) and 5 hired new Defensive Coordinators (Philadelphia, Minnesota, Carolina, Miami, Denver). I know that is not a perfect measure but I may dig into this more.

 

[Faceplant]

Damn RealRamsFan, I agree with everything in your last post as well.......

 

[Angry Ram]

They were discussing Spags and Devaney on SIRIUS NFL Radio this morning. They both said they like Spags, but they agreed that you cannot ignore the record and some of the draft picks associated with this regime. I really hope this FO can get it together and build for years to come, but Spags is losing me a bit this year. Lots of head scratching moments with him since he has been here actually. IF we were to start over, I would LOVE to have Fisher......

I just wonder if the people calling for Kroenke to clean house really want to sit through what that entails. Look at what the cleanup after the success of the Vermeil/Martz era has been like... 6-42 was fucking brutal, and I for one am not willing to put up with that again without at least giving Spags and Billy D every chance possible to right this thing.

Sometimes these things do not just move in a straight upward climb, sometimes it happens in waves... It cant always be worst to first. Sometimes it has to be worst to middle of the pack to lower third to upper third to first.

1999 was the greatest thing ever, but I also think it was a double edged sword, because a lot of fans expect it to happen like that every time. And it does not. I mean, it is so rare that the closest thing people have to compare it to (in my memory at least) is the effing Cheatriots going from 6-10 to 10-6 or whatever they did that year they stole a Super Bowl. Oh, and the 1-15 Dolphins going to an 11-5 playoff birth (cannot remember the exact record).

Oh, and how did that quick fix work out? They are looking at another rebuild already. Because they never really rebuilt. They plugged their holes with some pretty (on the surface) SHORT TERM improvements, but it turns out the foundation was fucked and they really just put lipstick on the pig.

And people point to the Lions for their "quick turnaround". Ummm... does anyone remember them starting off like 6-0 before tanking and then going 0-16. They have been awful for forever, and even this current iteration has taken a while to climb out of the dumpster.

So, yeah, pardon me if I do not want Kroenke to "clean house" and I am not going to shout "Fire SO and SO" because that just means whatever progress was made is negated and we go through this fucking losing shit for even longer. I am tired of hating Sundays, so I am willing to watch the Rams fall back this year before they learn how to take that step towards success. I mean, come on, Bradford is just in his second year and this team is young everywhere else for the most part as well...

Shit, I know this has been a novel, I should have just written a blog, lol. I will finish with this... If you guys are right and Spags really is proven to be awful and needs to be fired, feel free to call me a koolaid drinker or call me out for sticking behind him. Feel free to say "we told you so", I just hope you do not say it with glee like some seem to do when they claim they knew the Rams "sucked".

But if I am right, the people calling for heads are going to hear "I told you so!" from me, and I will say it with a big fat fucking smile on my face.

I said this in another thread, but the draft classes sucked in 2008 in 2009 for the Rams in the top 5.

Long is great, but he isn't Mario Williams. We're lucky that Dorsey didn't live up to HIS hype otherwise that's all we'd be hearing. Obviously we couldn't take Jake Long even if the Rams wanted to, and no to Ryan or McFadden b/c we already had SJack.

2009 was just bad. Only Stafford is lookin like a stud so far...yet ppl wrote him off as a "bust" b/c he was "injury prone."

Point is that when a team sucks enough to draft top 5, they HAVE to get a 10 year all star. So far, it looks like in 3 years, the Rams have 1 w/ Bradford. And remember, Long is great, an all-pro..but nothing like Mario Williams.

Chris Long G GS Tak Sck
2011 St. Louis Rams 4 4 8 3.0

Mario Williams
2011 Houston Texans 4 4 10 4.0

This last two years Long has played quite well,even with Williams. But I will agree Williams' stats were much better at the point in his career (4 years in) that Long is at. But this year Long has taken a big step and I think he will be a top 10 DE for the next few years. Is that worth the #2 pick? When I look at the other players who were considered worthy of a top 10 pick Long looks pretty damn good.

I am getting close to admitting that Smith is a bust and that was a bad pick.... I wanted BJ Raji or Aaron Curry ( )with that pick, but outside of him (and Stafford) the top 10 in that draft is nothing special. I would say that Rams were 2 for 3 in those picks, but your point is a good one. Teams MUST hit on those big time.

Not stat wise, but Williams has that "presence" factor that forces teams to account for him. That's what I mean. In any case, Long was a great pick for that year and thank God they picked him over Dorsey (who sure as hell isn't living up to his hype).

 

[JdashSTL]

Only problem I have with the OP is the phrase, "Let's face it. spags is going to get fired." I'm not prone to facing speculation. I do have a question for you guys though. What in the FAT hell could Jeff Fisher do with 7 DB's on IR, a sophmore QB in his third system, a star RB (focus of the offense) who gets injured on his first play from scrimmage, and 3 rookie receivers who missed all of OTA's and had 3 weeks to learn not just any playbook, but McDaniels' playbook? Maybe he'd cut everyone and scream and yell, but I can almost guarantee these Rams would still be 0-4.

So, let's face this. Fisher is going to get fired too. Now who you got?

As Faceplant just posted the WR and OL situations are inexcusable this late in Spags tenure....same for Devaney. 2nd system for SB is a concern....that's why you don't hire someone obviously looking to leave at the first hint of success. Shurmur wasn't a good hire in that respect. I'd also add that the defense hasn't exactly looked good either. 0-4.....sure I'm not surprised by that and I've said that in posts too. However the team is playing worse with each game. That is cause for concern. That points towards coaching.

Who were we supposed to hire then? Theres plenty of OCs throughout the league that will leave the team when they get an opportunity to be an HC elsewhere or they enjoy staying an OC but wanna try out a different team. Did Spags think Shurmur would be gone this fast? I doubt it. At the end of last season the thought of Shurmur leaving was something I never considered, but it happened. I just dont see how we can look back and believe that was just a bad hire for Spags.

 

[joeybittick]

I never said he needed to go. Said the team is poorly coached. I think X posted a article about the 5 things Spags should do....

I prefer Spags do those things and right this ship over getting another head coach.

I do feel this team is, and has been , poorly coached due to the lack of discipline and confusion. And the discipline is not only the players but the position coaches are also accountable.

I mean Spags fire equipment manager and other positions that serves no purpose but keeps Loney who has had failing OLs under his wing for over 4 to 5 years....

Spags has a lot to do if he want to keep his job.

Lets face it, yes we had a good year (if we can call 7 wins a good year) but it was an extremely weak schedule. When the pressure is on this team falls apart. I mean not even competing. Same misake from years ago.

It is a reflection of the coach when adjustments are made late and the team is unprepared and undiscipline

Spags still has time but he better change his approach because his current approach is not working

That's a fair post, but I still wish you would take everything else into account. I agree on-field performance is a reflection of the coach, but honestly, do you KNOW where he's falling short? Do you KNOW that he's not laying it down in the locker room or on the field? Personally, I believe this season has dramatically affected teams that have changed systems and not so much teams that haven't (G.B., N.E., N.O., BUF, DET, etc.) Those teams largely have the same guys, same systems, and same assistants.

I have had the same thought, and now that you mention it I wanted to check it out. I do not feel like going into all of the coordinators right now as that would take a bit more digging than I feel up to, but I will just go through the standings real quick.

Of the 8 current division leaders, only one (San Fran) had a head coaching change in the offseason and 4 made a coordinator change(TB- no DC-, SF-new OC and DC-, Baltimore-DC-, Hou-DC-, SD-DC-) though TB did not name a DC as Morris is running that I believe and Baltimore promoted a position coach. So basically of the 8 top teams (so far) on SF and Houston (Wade Phillips) are breaking in new schemes.

Of the 8 teams at the bottom of their division, 3 had head coaching changes (Denver, Carolina, and Minnesota). Of the 8 bottom dwellers, 4 hired new Offensive Coordinators (Miami, Minnesota, Carolina, Rams) and 5 hired new Defensive Coordinators (Philadelphia, Minnesota, Carolina, Miami, Denver). I know that is not a perfect measure but I may dig into this more.

The top 8 teams with the highest Point differentials:

Baltimore +62- DC change (No scheme change as they promoted from within).
Detroit +59- No coaching changes.
Green Bay +51- No coaching changes
Buffalo +37- No coaching changes
Houston +37- DC change
New England +37- No scheme change (did change promote an OC as Belichick was OC and DC in 2010)
Tennessee +32- All new Coaching staff
New Orleans +29- No coaching changes

 

[joeybittick]

Isn't it strange how a head coach can be considered a good coach in 2010 when the team is winning, and the defense jumps up multiple tiers, yet the OC needs to go because the team isn't creative enough on offense and can't score at will with a rookie QB. And then when the OC leaves and the head coach becomes inundated with injuries, his OC leaves and the new one installs a new offense, he's all of a sudden a bad head coach and the newly hired OC is immune to criticism? This has got to be the whackiest trend I've ever seen.

I agree that the team isn't performing well, but the head coach is now the scapegoat? What about all the position coaches? Diplomatic immunity? Oh wait. They did well last year, so they TOO must have forgotten how to coach. What has changed from then til now? Let's list those in order.

No OTA's
3 weeks of camp
New OC and offensive system
7 (count 'em, seven) defensive backs on IR
Both starting receivers (Clayton, Amendola) lost to injury
3 rookie receivers (Kendricks, Pettis, Salas)
1 receiver who could be the best in the league, but has two bad knees
Starting RB lost to injury on first play of the season and still not 100%
60% changeover on defensive personnel.

Poorly coached how? Drops, penalties and miscues are more the result of everyone picking up a complex offensive system on the fly than a lack of screaming and yelling by the head coach. That's just common sense. On defense, they're trying to integrate Poppinga, Leber, Bannan, Quinn, Mikell and Harris (+ all the plug-n-play corners) into a defense that's also pretty complex. It should all be pretty seamless, right? C'mon.

I don't get the thinking around here. Start at the top and make changes until something gets better? But that's backwards thinking. It should start at the bottom and keep going up until things change. Make roster changes until someone steps up and claims a position. Scale the playbooks back to make them simpler and increase the complexity of the plays incrementally. Fire position coaches and promote assistants. Etcetera.

Firing the coach mid-season (nobody has suggested this, I know) and promoting an assistant does nothing. Ask Haslett. He sparked an offense that would have liked to have slashed the throat of the previous head coach (and won two whole games), but none of the players on this team have given up on the current head coach. So, look, Kroenke is a business man. If his product isn't selling, HE'LL be the one to make changes. We can speculate about it and all, but to make assumptions that the head coach isn't doing his job without taking anything else into consideration is foolish. But, we all have opinions, and I'm not saying mine is the only one. So, carry on.

Just make sure that you leave the disparaging remarks out of your "analyses", yeah? Thanks.

Very High Drop % - No matter the system catching the ball is standard. This team had the same issue in 2010.

Very High Number of Penalty / Pen. Yards - Again, this problem been here since 2009. yet to be addressed. We get rid of "problem players" and the issue still presents itself....poor discipline

Very High Miss Tackles - Again, fundementals. Been in consistent since 2009


Poor Run Defense - This in conjunction of poor Gap assignment and missed tackles....again fundementals and discipline

Blown assignments - CBs assignments or WRs routes been an issue since 2009 as well. Thats fundementals and mental concertration


Lack of Identity - Also a coaching and directional issue. Are we a ground and pound (MMA BABY) team. Are we an pass attack team.


Player Improvement / Development - Should have more players improving or taking their skills to next level. Too many players are idle or in decline. Where are the lower draft picks who has turned into a solid role/back up player or even a starter. Most have been cut or released (Gilyard, Fendi, Grant, Hines, and so on). How many draft picks have been lost? Honestly...how many have been wasted? Didn't we want to change direction of 3 year passing and all draft picks gone or no being a factor?



Look I get it. We need to support our team and be positive. But at what point do we "infuse" (I like that word) honesty and reality into the equation.

Can anyone honestly say a coach who has 8 wins in 36 games is a "good coach"? And its not the loses but the way we lose.

We beat ourselves more than the opposing teams beat us. In the 28 loses, how many has been self inflicted (discipline)....I count at least half.

It should start at the bottom and keep going up until things change. Make roster changes until someone steps up and claims a position. Scale the playbooks back to make them simpler and increase the complexity of the plays incrementally. Fire position coaches and promote assistants. Etcetera.

Agreed.....

But Spags said they WILL NOT change the offensive approach because "Its proven to work"

Loney has yet to lose his jobs.....want to bet that Spags will not fire him??

Roster changes.....How long did it take before Spags realize Dahl was a coverage liability at Safety ? How long are we to do with go with King as a starter....once Bartell and Murphy was comfimred to be out...should grabbing a CB be priority. Why wait til Ravens torch King?

Why wait to give DX snaps? Why have DX inactive game 1. Why play Ah- You over Quinn? I do not think Spags have credibility on roster management. Can't trust him to promote others. THink he live and die with a player

Spags adjust too late. They are too buried by the time he make a move.

So yes the bold quote is 100% correct. What if the coach refuse to do it? Or is late doing it?

OK, to your points one by one:

Very High Drop % - No matter the system catching the ball is standard. This team had the same issue in 2010.

IN 2010 the Rams did not have a single WR or TE in the bottom 15 of drop %. Guess who did make it... Brandon Marshall, Santonio Holmes, Wes Welker, and Desean Jackson (worst in the NFL) to name a few. Drops happen. TO consistently led the league in the category. Who is to blame there?

 

[joeybittick]

P.S. before I forgot, I should "show my work" on the drop % and admit I only skimmed the article:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20 ... ercentage/</a>

2nd point

Very High Number of Penalty / Pen. Yards - Again, this problem been here since 2009. yet to be addressed. We get rid of "problem players" and the issue still presents itself....poor discipline

Rams are ranked 27th on the list of most penalty yards per game. Not Good. but the stats are way skewed right now, as WAS is leading the league in fewest penalty yards PG at only 18.8 YPG nearly 15 YPG better than the 2nd place team.Tampa Bay is ranked worse than the Rams, as is :whoa: :whoa: :whoa: :whoa: :whoa: New England. I hate Belichick, but not even I would call NE "poorly coached" :what: . In 09 the Rams were the 9th most penalized team per game. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia were worse... they seem to be well coached as well...

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalty-yards-per-game" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pe ... s-per-game</a>

 

[joeybittick]

3rd:

Very High Miss Tackles - Again, fundementals. Been in consistent since 2009

I am having trouble finding a team percentage, so I am assuming you are just well... assuming. But of the worst tacklers in the NFL, not a single Ram on the list, oh, and Bradley Fletcher was the number one tackling DB, meaning he had the fewest missed tackles.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/broken-tackles-2010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... ckles-2010</a>

I cannot locate team stats, but if I do, I will post them.

EDIT: for 09:

According to our game charters, St. Louis had the fewest percentage of plays with broken tackles. Quite a surprise, as they were a terrible defense overall, but this data would seem to suggest that there is something to build on there.

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2010/5/26/1488523/broken-tackles-didnt-break-the

 

[ljramsfan]

Only guy we need to fire is the soft-tissue specialist on our team. How in the world do we get so many torn ACLs?

Amen to that brotha

 

[joeybittick]

OK, to your points one by one:

Very High Drop % - No matter the system catching the ball is standard. This team had the same issue in 2010.

IN 2010 the Rams did not have a single WR or TE in the bottom 15 of drop %. Guess who did make it... Brandon Marshall, Santonio Holmes, Wes Welker, and Desean Jackson (worst in the NFL) to name a few. Drops happen. TO consistently led the league in the category. Who is to blame there?

Look at the production of those WR then look at our WR production. If you drop a pass fine...but put up numbers to make up for it.


You also put up individual numbers....as a TEAM...the Rams [/quote]

Still, with data from Stats, Inc. we can look at drops among Rams receivers from last year. Shall we?



Data listed with each receiver includes: targets/receptions, catch percentage, drops and drop rate (drops/catchable passes).

Danario Alexander
37 targets, 20 receptions, 54.1 catch rate and 2 drops, 9.1 percent drop rate

Danny Amendola
123/85, 69.1 percent catch rate, 8 drops, 8.6 percent drop rate

Mark Clayton
42/23, 54.8 percent catch rate, 2 drops, 8 percent drop rate

Brandon Gibson
91/53, 58.2 percent catch rate, 8 drops, 13.1 percent drop rate

Mardy Gilyard
16/6, 37.5 percent catch rate, 0 drops

Laurent Robinson
75/34, 45.3 percent catch rate, 3 drops, 8.1 percent drop rate

Thats 23 drops. Per ESPN, the league avergae was 12.8 in 2010 And FYI....that 23 does not include the TE drops


Rams were without a doubt the worst in drops in 2010


We are the worst this year as well. Only 2 WR on that list are currently on the active roster. Different players....Same fundemental issue


Discipline......mental lapses are lack of discipline[/quote]

Only Gibson would make the bottom 15 on the list. The 15th best drop % was 6.5%, so none of them would have been in the top, but none of them were near the bottom either (11.1% being the beginning of the 15 worst drop %). And again, I fail to see how that is on coaches.... maybe talent evaluators. And what about just bad hands, who are those on?

 

[joeybittick]

4th:

Poor Run Defense - This in conjunction of poor Gap assignment and missed tackles....again fundementals and discipline

Yeah, Rams are awful there, you are right. Dead last in 2011 by a lot. But they were 17th in 2010 (when they were healthy for the most part :razzed: ). Does that count? OR are we pretending we only have memories capable of remembering the last 4 weeks?

5th (I think):

Blown assignments - CBs assignments or WRs routes been an issue since 2009 as well. Thats fundementals and mental concertration

I am not even going to try to find a stat for this, but I am sure the Rams are awful in this category... but do 7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CBs on IR not contribute MAJORLY to that. Having Bartell, Murphy, and Fletcher would probably GREATLY improve that. DUde, the more I type this, the madder I get, cos that is common sense. People who ignore that fact piss me off so bad. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you man, but that is just not cool to ignore that glaring fact IMO.

6th:

Lack of Identity - Also a coaching and directional issue. Are we a ground and pound (MMA BABY) team. Are we an pass attack team.

Man, you know they would be a ground it out team if SJAX had not gone down on the FIRST play this year. And they tried to run with Caddy and did an admirable job, but Caddy is not #39. This team has an identity. Control the ball and play good D. Injuries have made that nearly impossible.

 

[Faceplant]

IN 2010 the Rams did not have a single WR or TE in the bottom 15 of drop %. Guess who did make it... Brandon Marshall, Santonio Holmes, Wes Welker, and Desean Jackson (worst in the NFL) to name a few. Drops happen. TO consistently led the league in the category. Who is to blame there?

To be fair, not only did those WRs far out produce ours, but the higher drop % is most DEFINITELY due to the # of deep routes those WRs ran. Our WR's ran routes that were < 10 yds almost exclusively.

 

[phantmjokr]

There's a lot of things that could be said...

In general, sometimes a team might find itself in a bad morale situation where a coaching change is necessitated even though the coach is doing an overall good job on other individual performances. This could end up as one of those cases. It's not yet, as I believe the reports from camp indicate. Spags has yet to lose the team.

As you go through this thread, you start to see how system continuity is the key to success and that changes yielding results are the outliers. The teams that have long term consistent success have many players past their first contracts that they have drafted and groomed in their system. They Rams in contrast, have almost all new players. Their only two long term players are SJ and Bartell, and both of those players have missed significant time or are out indefinitely. You can't win that way when the average player plays 6 years and the average 1st round pick plays 9 years. As I keep pointing out, look at Baltimore. It's not even that Lewis and Reed have been there in a single defensive system for years, its that they have a guy like Jared Johnson at OLB next to Lewis, a 9 year vet. Where's the Rams Jared Johnson? Or outside this forum many bring up Cowher. But lets put him in context. He followed a SB winning HC at Pittsburgh, and was followed by a SB winning coach in Pittsburgh. And this is a franchise that has had 3 HCs since 1969 . Cowher did not build that program, he was the caretaker. And bringing him here would necessitate changing to the 3-4, a rather massive project considering the Rams have been grabbing guys for a Jim Johnson 4-3.

Worst to First Miami. Football Outsiders, I believe, did a look at this. The year they won 3 games both Ron Brown and Chad Pennington missed significant time and they were one of the most injury decimated teams in the league. And in their turnaround to winning the AFC East Pennington in particular had his last healthy year and they were a league leader in team health. FO's prognosis? Team health matters a lot. Now sync that up with the Rams this season. Even the DC has been injured...

I'm one of those that prefers to let the owner worry about such moves. I can speculate, but demands? One fan means nothing. The fans together are everything. But I get perturbed about the amount of what I call, "magic wand" thinking out there. That there's an easy fix out there with this or that coach or GM or whatever. Well, no, there's not. Winning in the NFL is hard, and stuff a lot of fans pass of as "excuses" are just the historically proven realities. Blowing two complete drafts as the Rams did in '06-'07? That will haunt you for most of a decade. Getting 2 starters from '05 through '09? Worse. Falling into a ton of dead money and bloated cap, an IRS mandated team sale, AND a CBA lockout while trying to rebuild? It's the worst rebuild scenario in the modern NFL and much worse than any expansion build. And this is why I said before Spags name ever came up he was going to get fired in 3 to 4 years. It was too much. It's also why Peter King told Spags he was insane to take the Rams job, and King thinks Spags is a terrific coach.

To get back to the Texans, they've given Kubiak 6 years now, while trying to get over the hump.

No, there is not all candy and nuts with new coaching hires and system change. There are very definite downsides and costs.

Maybe they should just try consistency come heck or high water for a few years. But, in the end, Kroenke has to decide, and we have to watch, at least as long as we're watching.

And Jeff Fisher. How interesting. The call from fans is coming for him when I believe within his last 3 seasons in TN he went both 0-8 once and 8-0 once. How could that be with him being a good and consistent HC? Or, is it as I suspect, a sign that coaching influence is highly overrated and outside factors influence team success much much more.

 

[Ram Quixote]

....mental lapses are lack of discipline

No. Mental lapses are a lack of focus. You may be able to motivate players to perform better, but the mental acuity to avoid distractions is as much on the individual as any authority figure.

We sit in front of the TV and scream at the receivers to "catch the damn ball!" but do we understand the dynamics of negative reinforcement? Dropped balls are something you don't want your players to think about, so putting their focus on one mistake causes one more distraction. That's why you see teammates and coaches talking to the player and saying, "shake it off."

The team leaders can be the difference makers. They can push everyone to focus better, and we've already heard about some of that happening. And didn't Spags meet with them before SJ's talk to the offense?

I just don't think any of us here can have the proper grasp on the dynamics involved in running a football team the way someone who's been coaching football for 10+ years does. Not enough to know when a team is "poorly coached."