Is Goff, Elite?

[OC--LeftCoast]

That’s how I feel but it’s easy to argue a hypothetical question.

I think Goff is on the same level as Kirk Cousins. He’s not on the same level as Rodgers and Luck.

Yet

 

[jrry32]

That’s how I feel but it’s easy to argue a hypothetical question.

I think Goff is on the same level as Kirk Cousins. He’s not on the same level as Rodgers and Luck.

I should have used blue font. That was sarcasm. Goff is a level above Kirk Cousins. He doesn't melt in the spotlight like Cousins. I also could not disagree more with you on Andrew Luck. I hope he doesn't get overrated again. He was overrated for a long time, then became underrated, and people seem to be finally rating him correctly now. I'd take Goff over Luck and Cousins. Goff is the on the same level as guys like Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan, and Deshaun Watson.

 

[Loyal]

I should have used blue font. That was sarcasm. Goff is a level above Kirk Cousins. He doesn't melt in the spotlight like Cousins. I also could not disagree more with you on Andrew Luck. I hope he doesn't get overrated again. He was overrated for a long time, then became underrated, and people seem to be finally rating him correctly now. I'd take Goff over Luck and Cousins. Goff is the on the same level as guys like Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan, and Deshaun Watson.

I think the one or two times we played against Luck's Colts, the Rams stomped them...

 

[NoCoNite]

I should have used blue font. That was sarcasm. Goff is a level above Kirk Cousins. He doesn't melt in the spotlight like Cousins. I also could not disagree more with you on Andrew Luck. I hope he doesn't get overrated again. He was overrated for a long time, then became underrated, and people seem to be finally rating him correctly now. I'd take Goff over Luck and Cousins. Goff is the on the same level as guys like Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan, and Deshaun Watson.

Andrew Luck is overrated? You’re crazy. Do you think the Rams would wait 2 years for Jared Goff to get healthy? No. Luck is so good a franchise put their progress on hold to wait for him to get healthy, and wasn’t sure if he’d ever be healthy again.
They have no running backs. They have a really good slot receiver, and a tight end that couldn’t catch a touchdown before he was his quarterback.
Luck with Robert Woods, cooks, Gurley and McVay break a lot of records.
I love our team to death, but don’t be an unrealistic homer.

 

[NoCoNite]

I think the one or two times we played against Luck's Colts, the Rams stomped them...

He wasn’t playing last year.

 

[Loyal]

He wasn’t playing last year.

It was before that

 

[NoCoNite]

It was before that

In 2013 we beat luck 38-8. Damn. In the fish era.

 

[Loyal]

In 2013 we beat luck 38-8. Damn. In the fish era.

It was still Luck, with Kellen Clemmens at QB....Beating the Colts is a Rams tradition, it appears!

 

[TexasRam]

Luck has the best Oline in football bar none in my book. Also, Ebron, Hilton and Mack are excellent players.

Goff and Luck are both top 3 QBs in their respective leagues this year.

In my book Goff and Luck don’t get considered as Elite QB’s until they prove they can raise their game in the playoffs under pressure.

Both are on Elite QB projections however and building hall of fame Careers.

 

[NoCoNite]

It was still Luck, with Kellen Clemmens at QB....Beating the Colts is a Rams tradition, it appears!

Hope it stays that way.
I think Goff’s a good quarterback. It’s just hard to consider someone elite when hes had 6 interceptions 4 fumbles, and 1 touchdown heading into the playoffs. I was sold earlier this season, but now I’m wondering. His pocket awareness isn’t very good. He’s as good as the Oline allows him to be.
Which you can say about a lot of QBs, but elite ones find a way to make it happen with less.

 

[jrry32]

Andrew Luck is overrated? You’re crazy. Do you think the Rams would wait 2 years for Jared Goff to get healthy? No. Luck is so good a franchise put their progress on hold to wait for him to get healthy, and wasn’t sure if he’d ever be healthy again.

We waited two years for Sam Bradford to get healthy, but please, continue with your conjecture. There's also the fact that Luck didn't miss two years. He missed one season. So your conjecture isn't even accurate. Yes, I have no doubt that the Rams wouldn't move on from Goff if he got injured and missed a season (unless we luckily stumbled onto an even better QB).

They have no running backs. They have a really good slot receiver, and a tight end that couldn’t catch a touchdown before he was his quarterback.

This is all quite wrong. Marlon Mack has performed quite well this year when healthy. And when he has missed games, Jordan Wilkins has run the ball extremely effectively. Nyheim Hines has also given them a nice scat back option out of the backfield. Wilkins and Mack have over 1000 rushing yards combined, 9 TDs, and are averaging over 5 yards per carry.

As for their passing game targets, I hope you're not calling T.Y. Hilton "a really good slot receiver." He's one of the best WRs in the NFL and plays all over the formation. Further, Eric Ebron is having a very nice year at TE. I'll laugh at your contention that he was unproductive before he got to Indy. His per 16 game numbers over his previous three years in Detroit were 60 catches for 678 yards, and 4 TDs. The only major difference between Ebron this year and Ebron in Detroit has been TD production. The guy has always been a gifted receiving TE. He was a top 10 pick for a reason. The Colts have found a way to turn that talent into a major red-zone threat. Kudos to them and Luck on that one.

You're also conveniently overlooking how great that Indianapolis OL has been this year. It has been arguably the best pass blocking OL in the NFL.

Luck with Robert Woods, cooks, Gurley and McVay break a lot of records.
I love our team to death, but don’t be an unrealistic homer.

Speaking of Robert Woods, funny how you mention Ebron before he got to Luck but don't mention that Woods' career didn't take off until he was catching passes from Goff.

But yeah, I'm an unrealistic homer because I know the Colts well and watch Luck play. Goff has a better passer rating than Luck and a vastly superior YPA. Luck has more passing TDs because they choose to have him throw for TDs in the red-zone instead of handing the ball off to the HBs. Fact is that the Rams offense has scored 50 TDs, while the Colts offense has only scored 48 TDs. McVay simply opts to hand the ball to Gurley rather than pad Goff's stats.

And then there's the fact that our offense is vastly superior in points scored, total yardage, and yards per play. But I'm sure you'll credit Luck for his offense's success while refusing to give Goff credit for ours. It's disappointing to see a Rams fan fall prey to the same garbage that the media does. Every QB is given the credit for their offense's success, except Jared Goff. That's despite the fact that Goff certainly isn't playing the game manager role in this offense. He's #4 in the NFL in passing yards.

Hope it stays that way.
I think Goff’s a good quarterback. It’s just hard to consider someone elite when hes had 6 interceptions 4 fumbles, and 1 touchdown heading into the playoffs. I was sold earlier this season, but now I’m wondering. His pocket awareness isn’t very good. He’s as good as the Oline allows him to be.
Which you can say about a lot of QBs, but elite ones find a way to make it happen with less.

That's not really true. Even the elite QBs struggle when their OL isn't holding up. Goff was posting elite numbers even with the OL not being as good as most thought it was. But like any other pocket passer, when the OL is getting him hit on damn near every play, he's going to struggle.

Regardless, I'm not going to pee my pants over a bad three-game stretch. I don't care what the cherry-picked numbers say. Goff was playing at a MVP level prior to that bad stretch of games. He bounced back against Arizona. If he finishes strong against SF, we'll be just fine. Young QBs have stretches where they struggle. Goff is still years away from his prime. He's going to have bumps in the road.

 

[NoCoNite]

We waited two years for Sam Bradford to get healthy, but please, continue with your conjecture. There's also the fact that Luck didn't miss two years. He missed one season. So your conjecture isn't even accurate. Yes, I have no doubt that the Rams wouldn't move on from Goff if he got injured and missed a season (unless we luckily stumbled onto an even better QB).



This is all quite wrong. Marlon Mack has performed quite well this year when healthy. And when he has missed games, Jordan Wilkins has run the ball extremely effectively. Nyheim Hines has also given them a nice scat back option out of the backfield. Wilkins and Mack have over 1000 rushing yards combined, 9 TDs, and are averaging over 5 yards per carry.

As for their passing game targets, I hope you're not calling T.Y. Hilton "a really good slot receiver." He's one of the best WRs in the NFL and plays all over the formation. Further, Eric Ebron is having a very nice year at TE. I'll laugh at your contention that he was unproductive before he got to Indy. His per 16 game numbers over his previous three years in Detroit were 60 catches for 678 yards, and 4 TDs. The only major difference between Ebron this year and Ebron in Detroit has been TD production. The guy has always been a gifted receiving TE. He was a top 10 pick for a reason. The Colts have found a way to turn that talent into a major red-zone threat. Kudos to them and Luck on that one.

You're also conveniently overlooking how great that Indianapolis OL has been this year. It has been arguably the best pass blocking OL in the NFL.



Speaking of Robert Woods, funny how you mention Ebron before he got to Luck but don't mention that Woods' career didn't take off until he was catching passes from Goff.

But yeah, I'm an unrealistic homer because I know the Colts well and watch Luck play. Goff has a better passer rating than Luck and a vastly superior YPA. Luck has more passing TDs because they choose to have him throw for TDs in the red-zone instead of handing the ball off to the HBs. Fact is that the Rams offense has scored 50 TDs, while the Colts offense has only scored 48 TDs. McVay simply opts to hand the ball to Gurley rather than pad Goff's stats.

And then there's the fact that our offense is vastly superior in points scored, total yardage, and yards per play. But I'm sure you'll credit Luck for his offense's success while refusing to give Goff credit for ours. It's disappointing to see a Rams fan fall prey to the same garbage that the media does. Every QB is given the credit for their offense's success, except Jared Goff. That's despite the fact that Goff certainly isn't playing the game manager role in this offense. He's #4 in the NFL in passing yards.



That's not really true. Even the elite QBs struggle when their OL isn't holding up. Goff was posting elite numbers even with the OL not being as good as most thought it was. But like any other pocket passer, when the OL is getting him hit on damn near every play, he's going to struggle.

Regardless, I'm not going to pee my pants over a bad three-game stretch. I don't care what the cherry-picked numbers say. Goff was playing at a MVP level prior to that bad stretch of games. He bounced back against Arizona. If he finishes strong against SF, we'll be just fine. Young QBs have stretches where they struggle. Goff is still years away from his prime. He's going to have bumps in the road.

Robert Woods was pretty solid with the Bills.
Luck is a better overall quarterback tho. They shut him down mid way through the season. Jordan Wilks had an ok game. Marlon Mack started playing good when they would drop 7-8 ppl back in coverage bc Luck was killing people.
You’re right though, by the time Goff is Lucks age he might be as talented. Luck is also the leader of his team. McVays the leader of our team.
And they waited one year for Bradford. Once he blew his acl again they traded him. And you might of peed your pants writing that novel. You and all your conjectures.

 

[Giles]

Robert Woods was pretty solid with the Bills.
Luck is a better overall quarterback tho. They shut him down mid way through the season. Jordan Wilks had an ok game. Marlon Mack started playing good when they would drop 7-8 ppl back in coverage bc Luck was killing people.
You’re right though, by the time Goff is Lucks age he might be as talented. Luck is also the leader of his team. McVays the leader of our team.
And they waited one year for Bradford. Once he blew his acl again they traded him. And you might of peed your pants writing that novel. You and all your conjectures.

"Robert woods was pretty solid with the bills." That's where I stopped reading. You just proved his point.

 

[NoCoNite]

"Robert woods was pretty solid with the bills." That's where I stopped reading. You just proved his point.

So you thought the rams just gave 30 million to a scrub? He was a receiver on a running team. With a quarterback that could only throw down field and run. While giving their running backs 30-40 carries a game. Maybe you should watch some football instead of reading stat lines.

 

[NoCoNite]

Targeted 72 times with only 2 drops. Carried over to the rams with a better system and a better QB

 

[jrry32]

Robert Woods was pretty solid with the Bills.

And Eric Ebron was a solid TE with the Lions. You're only making my point for me. The silly part of all this is that you credited Luck with Ebron's improvement and didn't credit Goff with Woods' improvement. Disappointing from a Rams fan.

Luck is a better overall quarterback tho. They shut him down mid way through the season.

No, he's not. His numbers are slightly worse than Goff's. His offense has worse production than ours. And his team has worse results than ours. There isn't a single thing that indicates Luck is a better QB. And as I said before, Luck only missed 1 season. He started 15 games in 2016, and he has started every game this year. You were wrong about them waiting two years for him to play.

Jordan Wilks had an ok game. Marlon Mack started playing good when they would drop 7-8 ppl back in coverage bc Luck was killing people.

Do I get to claim that Gurley plays well because teams are dropping 7-8 people in coverage to stop Goff? Or does only Luck get that bullshit claim made?

You’re right though, by the time Goff is Lucks age he might be as talented. Luck is also the leader of his team. McVays the leader of our team.

What a bunch of bullshit. I didn't realize that Luck, not Frank Reich, was the head coach of the Colts. Silly Jared Goff, he's not able to be both head coach and QB of the Rams.

 

[jrry32]

So you thought the rams just gave 30 million to a scrub? He was a receiver on a running team. With a quarterback that could only throw down field and run. While giving their running backs 30-40 carries a game. Maybe you should watch some football instead of reading stat lines.

It's quite odd how you go out of your way to credit Luck in a way you won't do for Goff. Weird behavior for a Rams fan.

 

[NoCoNite]

And Eric Ebron was a solid TE with the Lions. You're only making my point for me. The silly part of all this is that you credited Luck with Ebron's improvement and didn't credit Goff with Woods' improvement. Disappointing from a Rams fan.



No, he's not. His numbers are slightly worse than Goff's. His offense has worse production than ours. And his team has worse results than ours. There isn't a single thing that indicates Luck is a better QB. And as I said before, Luck only missed 1 season. He started 15 games in 2016, and he has started every game this year. You were wrong about them waiting two years for him to play.



Do I get to claim that Gurley plays well because teams are dropping 7-8 people in coverage to stop Goff? Or does only Luck get that bullcrap claim made?



What a bunch of bullcrap. I didn't realize that Luck, not Frank Reich, was the head coach of the Colts. Silly Jared Goff, he's not able to be both head coach and QB of the Rams.

He has more touch downs this year then he did his whole career.
And I didn’t say coach. I said leader. Look outside this circle man lol. Goff’s a good quarterback, he’s not elite.
Not to throw shade at Gurlet but he does face more 5 man box’s then 90% of other RBs.
Which kind of contradicts what I’m saying.
I’m just not sold on Goff being elite.

 

[jrry32]

He has more touch downs this year then he did his whole career.

And as I already proved, him having more TDs is solely a function of play-calling. The Colts offense has less TDs than ours. We feed Gurley in the red-zone; they feed Luck. Even with Luck's padding of his TD totals, Goff has a better passer rating and better ANYPA.

And I didn’t say coach. I said leader. Look outside this circle man lol. Goff’s a good quarterback, he’s not elite.

I called bullshit on your claim. McVay and Reich are the head coaches. They are necessarily the leaders of the team. If we're talking about players, both Luck and Goff are leaders on their respective teams. You can't claim McVay is the leader here and Luck is the leader there. It's total BS. If we're including HCs, Reich is the leader there. He's the shot caller, not Luck.

I’m just not sold on Goff being elite.

Goff isn't elite. Neither is Luck. Both are top 10 QBs in the 5 to 10 range. Goff is higher on my list. He has more arm talent.

 

[NoCoNite]

It's quite odd how you go out of your way to credit Luck in a way you won't do for Goff. Weird behavior for a Rams fan.

It’s not weird. I’m worried about having a guy that gets rattled to easy. And he’s been saved plenty of times by dropped interceptions. He could of have 6 the bears game.
What he did the KC was cold blooded, but he almost threw the game away prior to the pass to Gerald Evertt. I’ve watched every game this season. Except the chargers game. I’m just telling you what I see.
He’s been amazing. And he’s been terrible. It’s what have you done for me lately league. What he did the first 10 games doesn’t matter now. You can’t possibly think a decent game Vs cardinals team with a coach that lost the locker room is a come back.
I’ll be the first to eat crow if he becomes and elite quarterback. Right now he isn’t. Recently he looks more like his rookie season.