Is Goff, Elite?

[LesBaker]

can't you respect other peoples opinions ? I think he is a system QB , you don't and simply because of that you get so nervous and your blood boils ? really ? Are you a 17 year old spoiled lil chick on period that cannot handle an opinion different than yours ?

Your being an ass here with this.

@TexasRam your response was on the money.

 

[brasilcalif]

Complete crap.

Goff’s two year overall stats are top 5 overall in the entire NFL. Better than Brady, Rodgers and other “Elite QB’s”.

To make a statement that Goff is bottom 5 under pressure based on a 2 game sample size is laughable. Especially when 1 interception is a end of half hail Mary, 2 interceptions are a result of Goff being hit as he throws all of which skew the QB rating.

We are talking the Lions game in which Goff leads his team to 30 points, a eagles game in which Goff is #1 in the NFL in passig yards and 1 pass interference call from 30 points.

Your sample size is 1 game. The Bears game in which 3 interceptions are not in any way on Goff.

Sorry, one game doesn’t define an NFL QB. Every single Hall of fame QB has had multiple bad games every year he played.

You can make all the excuses you want , you can say all the picks are not his fault and I can say he had other players WIDE open on EVERY pick he threw . ( maybe ALL throws but the hail mary in the bears game ) but the fact is he played really bad for 3 games in a row and coincidence or not , he started playing extremely bad when the " system " collapsed . ( o line not playing well and defenses making him go out cold on his own without letting mcvay tell him what to do ) .

 

[brasilcalif]

this is an educated reply , so it will get an educated reply from me .

Ok , I admit I was the one pissed with goff during fisher days . HE proved me wrong since mcvay arrived and I am hoping he can prove me wrong again . The way he played his last 3 games , to me , is concerning . Not sure what is worse but it seems to be the fact that when under pressure or rattled he locks in a player and he can't see other player wide OPEN . He just gets rattled too easily . It is too easy to throw him out of his game in my opinion . About my satisfaction , IT would bring me none if goff ends up in fact being a system QB , BUT this is a public place and we are all allowed to voice our opinions , and as long as we respect others opinions ( no matter how absurd they seem to us ) it is all good .

And about being the worst QB in the nfl without the " system " , I just stated ONE FACT . The FACT is : In the last 3 games ( BTW- I agree it is small sample size but it is what it is ) he has the second WORST QB rating in the league if you take those 3 games alone . That is a FACT , not my opinion . So I am not shooting or throwing the crap . I am just stating a FACT . He did start to play REALLY BAD when the " system " started to fail with him . Bad O line , some bad play calling , defenses adjusting to not showing any reads before communications are cut , and the result is : he started to struggle big time . Maybe that is coincidence ? maybe not . ( in my opinion , probably not ) .

But you do have valid points . and also , I DO HOPE I am wrong .

Honestly? You're wrong. I'm sorry, but your opinion is completely wrong. You didn't say that crap in Goff's first eight games, did you? You didn't say that after that masterful Minnesota game. You didn't say that after he carved up the Chiefs. I guaran-freaking-tee that you didn't say it after his first full season, when he showed immense poise in all but a few of his games.

Short-term memory is extremely selective. What you're saying is short-term to a negative extreme, just to fit a false narrative.

That's what makes my blood boil. Your response was inflammatory and based on a false narrative. You didn't even try to disguise it at first; you went straight for the kill. Whether you did it to illicit a response or whatever is only known by you.

And if Goff does turn out to be only a system quarterback - which I highly doubt - will being right bring you satisfaction? Would it bring you more satisfaction than, say, a Super Bowl championship?

I respect other people's opinions when they aren't being inflammatory and based entirely on falsehoods like yours was. Worst quarterback in the league without the system is not even close to being true.

But again, it's not just you. I avoid the gameday thread completely. I don't even open it. That's how toxic it is.

ROD was built on the premise that you could have a beer and shoot the crap with others. It was built on being a Ram-friendly forum, where we didn't dump on the players, coaches, front office, or anyone who worked for the Rams. Saying that Goff is the "worst quarterback" without the "system" doesn't feel like shooting the crap - more like throwing the crap.

But I've said my piece, and I doubt that I'll convince you otherwise.

 

[Rainram]

He did start to play REALLY BAD when the " system " started to fail with him . Bad O line , some bad play calling , defenses adjusting to not showing any reads before communications are cut , and the result is : he started to struggle big time . Maybe that is coincidence ?

Can you name a QB, who under those circumstances, plays well? With some citations/examples, please.

A second question for you, kind sir...Do you believe great QBs don’t ever throw up 2-3 bad games per season? The Marino’s, Elway’s, Aikman’s, Manning’s, etc...they didn’t have a few bad games per year?

And a third (or technically, 4th) question...can you name a QB who is not a system QB? Which is to say, if I’m interpreting it right, a QB who would produce consistently great results regardless of the scheme, players around him, coaching and playcalling?

 

[Memento]

this is an educated reply , so it will get an educated reply from me .

Ok , I admit I was the one ticked with goff during fisher days . HE proved me wrong since mcvay arrived and I am hoping he can prove me wrong again . The way he played his last 3 games , to me , is concerning . Not sure what is worse but it seems to be the fact that when under pressure or rattled he locks in a player and he can't see other player wide OPEN . He just gets rattled too easily . It is too easy to throw him out of his game in my opinion . About my satisfaction , IT would bring me none if goff ends up in fact being a system QB , BUT this is a public place and we are all allowed to voice our opinions , and as long as we respect others opinions ( no matter how absurd they seem to us ) it is all good .

And about being the worst QB in the nfl without the " system " , I just stated ONE FACT . The FACT is : In the last 3 games ( BTW- I agree it is small sample size but it is what it is ) he has the second WORST QB rating in the league if you take those 3 games alone . That is a FACT , not my opinion . So I am not shooting or throwing the crap . I am just stating a FACT . He did start to play REALLY BAD when the " system " started to fail with him . Bad O line , some bad play calling , defenses adjusting to not showing any reads before communications are cut , and the result is : he started to struggle big time . Maybe that is coincidence ? maybe not . ( in my opinion , probably not ) .

But you do have valid points . and also , I DO HOPE I am wrong .

Fair enough.

Honestly, though? You put any quarterback under duress, and he's going to miss targets. New York Giants did it with Brady in in two Super Bowls.. Same with the Hags and Peyton Manning during one of the best years of his career. Put a quarterback on the ground and cover well, and they're going to start seeing ghosts. And as TexasRam- amongst others - have stated, Goff's numbers through his first two seasons eclipse that of Manning, Brady, and Brees. So I am admittedly high on Goff, even though I wanted us to draft Wentz.

The three games are interesting because we had chances to come back from a large deficit. Eagles game, who knows what happens if Natson doesn't Hakim the ball? Bears game? We were close there as well. Lions game? We won.

And I expect us to destroy the Cardinals. Same with any game. Because - in my mind - I expect us to win every game, and if we don't, it's on to the next game. I look to the future, not the present.

But onto Goff. I think that three games is a very small sample size compared to how masterfully he performed this season. The Vikings game was one of the best performances I've seen. Chiefs? Tore them apart. Cardinals? Shutout. Niners? Killed them. Raiders? Domination.

In this season, he'll likely eclipse his passing touchdown numbers, even with the poor three game stretch (which - as Legatron noted - happens to every quarterback). He's already eclipsed his career high passing yardage, and he's close to 10,000 career passing yards...at twenty-four years of age.

As far as the system goes, this isn't like Linehan, Spagnuolo, or Fisher. I have faith in McVay to fix the offense - and I think that the Cardinals are a perfect opportunity to tune up the offense in time for the postseason. We're close to a first round bye.

And honestly, I don't think it's just the system. If it was just the system, we'd see Mannion dominate. But Goff's physical talents and mental acumen make the whole thing go. McVay wouldn't have signed with us if we didn't have Goff. So they're lumped together, for better or worse.

And systems aren't necessarily a bad thing. Look at - and I just threw up in my mouth a little for mentioning those fuckers - the Cheatriots. Brady went down, and the system allowed their backup quarterback in Cassel to flourish.

But I don't think that Goff is merely a system quarterback. Sorry for my rambling reply, and I apologize for my personal attacks toward you.

 

[brasilcalif]

All qb will have to rely " somewhat" in the system ( a good system) to be successful, I just think Goff has to relies too much. All qbs will decline their production when the system fails. I just think Goff declines TOO MUCH.

Maybe now I made myself clear....

Can you name a QB, who under those circumstances, plays well? With some citations/examples, please.

A second question for you, kind sir...Do you believe great QBs don’t ever throw up 2-3 bad games per season? The Marino’s, Elway’s, Aikman’s, Manning’s, etc...they didn’t have a few bad games per year?

And a third (or technically, 4th) question...can you name a QB who is not a system QB? Which is to say, if I’m interpreting it right, a QB who would produce consistently great results regardless of the scheme, players around him, coaching and playcalling?

 

[brasilcalif]

All qb will have to rely " somewhat" in the system ( a good system) to be successful, I just think Goff has to relies too much. All qbs will decline their production when the system fails. I just think Goff declines TOO MUCH.

Maybe now I made myself clear....

Can you name a QB, who under those circumstances, plays well? With some citations/examples, please.

A second question for you, kind sir...Do you believe great QBs don’t ever throw up 2-3 bad games per season? The Marino’s, Elway’s, Aikman’s, Manning’s, etc...they didn’t have a few bad games per year?

And a third (or technically, 4th) question...can you name a QB who is not a system QB? Which is to say, if I’m interpreting it right, a QB who would produce consistently great results regardless of the scheme, players around him, coaching and playcalling?

 

[brasilcalif]

Fair enough.

Honestly, though? You put any quarterback under duress, and he's going to miss targets. New York Giants did it with Brady in in two Super Bowls.. Same with the Hags and Peyton Manning during one of the best years of his career. Put a quarterback on the ground and cover well, and they're going to start seeing ghosts. And as TexasRam- amongst others - have stated, Goff's numbers through his first two seasons eclipse that of Manning, Brady, and Brees. So I am admittedly high on Goff, even though I wanted us to draft Wentz.

I agree , 100 % . I just think that goff declines his production too much under duress . Maybe I am being too harsh on him , after all , it is still his third year as a QB only . Like I said , I hope I am wrong , but it seems that he NEEDS the system too much .

The three games are interesting because we had chances to come back from a large deficit. Eagles game, who knows what happens if Natson doesn't Hakim the ball? Bears game? We were close there as well. Lions game? We won.

And I expect us to destroy the Cardinals. Same with any game. Because - in my mind - I expect us to win every game, and if we don't, it's on to the next game. I look to the future, not the present.

But onto Goff. I think that three games is a very small sample size compared to how masterfully he performed this season. The Vikings game was one of the best performances I've seen. Chiefs? Tore them apart. Cardinals? Shutout. Niners? Killed them. Raiders? Domination.

Solid points , I agree. We need to beat the cards AND the niners badly , by not doing so we seriously risk having to go to soldier field to play the bears and I want none of that . I think we can beat them in LA but not there in the freezing cold .

In this season, he'll likely eclipse his passing touchdown numbers, even with the poor three game stretch (which - as Legatron noted - happens to every quarterback). He's already eclipsed his career high passing yardage, and he's close to 10,000 career passing yards...at twenty-four years of age.

As far as the system goes, this isn't like Linehan, Spagnuolo, or Fisher. I have faith in McVay to fix the offense - and I think that the Cardinals are a perfect opportunity to tune up the offense in time for the postseason. We're close to a first round bye.

And honestly, I don't think it's just the system. If it was just the system, we'd see Mannion dominate. But Goff's physical talents and mental acumen make the whole thing go. McVay wouldn't have signed with us if we didn't have Goff. So they're lumped together, for better or worse.

And systems aren't necessarily a bad thing. Look at - and I just threw up in my mouth a little for mentioning those fuckers - the Cheatriots. Brady went down, and the system allowed their backup quarterback in Cassel to flourish.

Again , all good points . If it was just the system any QB would look good , and of course it is not the case . Goff has a lot of talent , he just needs to have more confidence in himself when under pressure , if he doesn't get rattled too easily like he is doing now , he will be able to play better under pressure .


But I don't think that Goff is merely a system quarterback. Sorry for my rambling reply, and I apologize for my personal attacks toward you.


He might not be a merely system qb , maybe I am overreacting . time will tell . About the rambling / personal attacks , it is all good , don't worry . GO RAMS

 

[Ram77]

Here’s a new poll over at nfl.com. Notice how Goff is not even on the list of best QB drafted since 2015. Just 2 weeks ago Goff was regarded as the best or 2nd best young QB in the NFL. Media sure loves to stir things up and is really fickle.

 

[Mikey Ram]

Recall that he as getting a little mention earlier in the season as being in the mix as an MVP candidate (which I thought was a little over the top), but now he's blown his load and is nearly worthless.. It's proof of just how fickle the media and fans can really be..

 

[Loyal]

To the OP's Thread Title question: Yes.

 

[-X-]

I don't think it matters if he is or isn't. All we really need is a good QB and disciplined play from him and the rest of the team. I think we can all agree that Rodgers is elite, but there he sits with a 5 win season. Conversely, is Lamar Jackson elite with his 47.8 QBR and 10 fumbles? Not bloody likely. Yet there he sits with a 5-1 record and fresh off a beating of the Chargers. Elite, not elite, who gives a shit. He's not bad, so that's all that matters. He just needs to get out of this slump and the rest of the team needs to - individually - take responsibility for their own play and trust in each other's ability to do the same.

Now, that said, QB *is* the most important position on the field, and he's been playing like shit the past couple of weeks. While he didn't necessarily decide the outcome of those games on his own, he absolutely made it harder for the rest of the team. QB and kicker are the only two positions that can really screw your chances of pulling one out in the final minutes, so anything less than your A game won't cut it.

Just play better.

 

[Faceplant]

"educated response" ....one of the dumbest things I have ever seen posted on here. I wish I had more eyes to roll. .

 

[Prime Time]

https://www.therams.com/news/quotes-notes-12-26-single-season-franchise-record-within-reach-for-goff

QB JARED GOFF

• Quarterback Jared Goff was reminded in his Wednesday press conference how many yards he must throw for against the 49ers to surpass former Rams quarterback Kurt Warner for the most single-season passing yards in franchise history.
• Goff’s 4,489 yards passing in 2018 ranks No. 4 in the league and is 342 yards short of the Rams franchise mark, set by Warner in the Rams’ 2001 Super Bowl season.
• Goff has thrown six touchdowns and is 2-1 against the 49ers in his career. Goff hit on 18-of-24 attempts for 202 yards Week 7 in San Francisco, with two touchdowns and no interceptions.

 

[LARams_1963]

I've been trying really hard to put into words my thoughts on Goffs latest struggles. Leave it to Shanahan to do it for me. This is EXACTLY how I feel about the issue....

“I don't care how good of a quarterback you play with, how good of an offense you have, how good of a team, you're going to go through weeks where you don't play your best,” Shanahan said. “When you play at a high level for a while, like the Rams have, like Goff has for the last two years, it just shows they've changed the standard.”

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

Bears game is kind of old news, but what did you guys think of this analysis? ("McVay lied" was kind of melodramatic, but otherwise maybe some good insights.)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n04gbQBMZt0

 

[NoCoNite]

If you put Jared Goff on the packers, do you think they have any wins?

 

[jrry32]

If you put Jared Goff on the packers, do you think they have any wins?

None. Not one. The Packers have no talent.

 

[NoCoNite]

None. Not one. The Packers have no talent.

That’s how I feel but it’s easy to argue a hypothetical question.

I think Goff is on the same level as Kirk Cousins. He’s not on the same level as Rodgers and Luck.