I'm thinking we take Jones if he declares?

[Elmgrovegnome]

And if he hits you look like a complete genius.

Considering how many QBs flop, I thinks the odds are against that outcome.

 

[Sum1]

I'm more interested in looking at some of the offensive lineman that were in front of Jones.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Considering how many QBs flop, I thinks the odds are against that outcome.

Maybe. Maybe not. It really depends upon what team grabs that player and how he is used. But, few have this kid's physical skill set.

 

[paceram]

Maybe. Maybe not. It really depends upon what team grabs that player and how he is used. But, few have this kid's physical skill set.

Sooner or later (depending on Bradford's health) the Rams are going to have to draft a QB for the future and they might not ever get the chance (At least, I hope the Rams start drafting lower in the Draft which makes it less likely they will be able to draft a top QB) to draft a QB as good as Jones in the future. Of course it is a gamble but I think drafting any QB (Unless, his name is a Manning!) is going to be a risk but Jones sure looks like he is worth the gamble. But, this might all be a moot point if he doesn't come out.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Maybe. Maybe not. It really depends upon what team grabs that player and how he is used. But, few have this kid's physical skill set.

Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Sebastian Janikowski. If he can't be a QB in the NFL maybe he can learn to kick?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Sooner or later (depending on Bradford's health) the Rams are going to have to draft a QB for the future and they might not ever get the chance (At least, I hope the Rams start drafting lower in the Draft which makes it less likely they will be able to draft a top QB) to draft a QB as good as Jones in the future. Of course it is a gamble but I think drafting any QB (Unless, his name is a Manning!) is going to be a risk but Jones sure looks like he is worth the gamble. But, this might all be a moot point if he doesn't come out.

ESPN radio saying it sounds unlikely that he will enter the draft at this point.

 

[jrry32]

Mayock just said on Mike and Mike in the morning that he would be hard pressed to say that Jones would even go in the top 100 picks in the draft. I am not a huge Mayock believer but I know you are Jrry.

I'm not a Mayock believer. I don't believe in any of the mainstream media guys. I respect Josh Norris from rotoworld and Daniel Jeremiah because both put the time in the film room(you can tell from what they say) and are willing to speak their mind. But Mayock? Not a fan.

You are changing things that I say to fit your argument. It figures that the lawyer comes out in you in these situations. Culpepper and McNair were not DRAFTED in the last decade. Times have changed with the advent Colleges producing so few Pro ready QBs due to spread offenses, new rules and more emphasis on the passing game. Teams or coaches are pressured to play players that are not ready.

A few coaches buck the trends. Hopefully if Snead and Fisher were to believe that a guy like Jones was going to be the next great college QB to hit the pros then they would trust their scouting. More likely they would try to pick a draft slot and try to take him according to that, because that is what they seem to do since being in St. Louis. But if they are convinced the guy is a top ten pick, sure they should take him. If they think he is a third round pick but are afraid that everyone else thinks he is better should they really take him at 10? Many teams have done it that way and wasted first rounders on bad QBs.

And yes Austin Davis really. He looked good for a few games, just like Jones did. When Davis was not under a heavy pass rush he looked like a capable QB. Then under duress he was a completely different QB. We have not seen Jones under duress. He was picking cherries back there for three games.

Sounds to me as if you're making a great argument as to why teams are being foolish nowadays.

We have seen Cardale Jones under duress. He broke out of at least 3 or 4 sacks against Oregon. He threw a long TD against Wisconsin while getting blasted by a defender.

If I thought the guy was a third round pick, I wouldn't be advocating for him at #10. Trust me, Elm, if I'm willing to take him at #10...it's because I think he's worth taking there.

 

[dieterbrock]

Times have changed with the advent Colleges producing so few Pro ready QBs due to spread offenses, new rules and more emphasis on the passing game. Teams or coaches are pressured to play players that are not ready.
.

You think QB's are less pro ready now then in the past? I think its the opposite. There was a time you wouldnt think a rookie QB would start a playoff game, now they are starting many of them. And winning too

 

[Memphis Ram]

Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Sebastian Janikowski. If he can't be a QB in the NFL maybe he can learn to kick?

Don't think Young has his gun. Plus, I don't believe Russell moved as well. And especially after he showed up overweight and out of shape for the combine. That alone should have shown the Raiders that he had bust written all over him.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

You think QB's are less pro ready now then in the past? I think its the opposite. There was a time you wouldnt think a rookie QB would start a playoff game, now they are starting many of them. And winning too

who? Luck? a once in a decade QB? Wilson? Okay that's two. Dalton? Please. The spread guys have to learn the pro system and nearly every team in the country runs a form of the spread these days.

I definitely think QB are less pro ready now than in the past.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm not a Mayock believer. I don't believe in any of the mainstream media guys. I respect Josh Norris from rotoworld and Daniel Jeremiah because both put the time in the film room(you can tell from what they say) and are willing to speak their mind. But Mayock? Not a fan.



Sounds to me as if you're making a great argument as to why teams are being foolish nowadays.

We have seen Cardale Jones under duress. He broke out of at least 3 or 4 sacks against Oregon. He threw a long TD against Wisconsin while getting blasted by a defender.

If I thought the guy was a third round pick, I wouldn't be advocating for him at #10. Trust me, Elm, if I'm willing to take him at #10...it's because I think he's worth taking there.

Trust me Jrry. When I say he is too risky to take at #10, its because I think he is too risky to take at #10.

I think this authority on the draft thing is going to your head. Your wrong as much as anyone.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Don't think Young has his gun. Plus, I don't believe Russell moved as well. And especially after he showed up overweight and out of shape for the combine. That alone should have shown the Raiders that he had bust written all over him.

Exactly. How much do you guys really know about Jones? Russell had potential, Young had potential. NFL GMs and scouts bought in. How do you know anymore about Jones than you did about guys that you watched play for 2 or 3 years?

Its all a most likely a moot point since people are saying he isn't likely to declare though.

 

[jrry32]

Trust me Jrry. When I say he is too risky to take at #10, its because I think he is too risky to take at #10.

I think this authority on the draft thing is going to your head. Your wrong as much as anyone.

Okay, great. I'm wrong as much as anyone. I'm still going to state my opinion. If you don't like that, you're welcome to use the ignore function.

I'm a risk taker. What can I say.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Exactly. How much do you guys really know about Jones? Russell had potential, Young had potential. NFL GMs and scouts bought in. How do you know anymore about Jones than you did about guys that you watched play for 2 or 3 years?

Its all a most likely a moot point since people are saying he isn't likely to declare though.

On a personal side I don't know much of anything outside of what I've read from the media and fans of their teams. And that's the same for every player that enters the league.

But, I do know that while I liked Young (and still do), I called guys like Russell, Leaf, Smith and the like soon-to-be busts pre-draft. And if, this kid declares and I find or see some of same things about him that I saw in those guys, then I'll change my opinion. Just like the draftnik media will when they learn more about most of these players.

 

[Athos]

If you want to play it safe all the time.....

The Rams will continue to be the perpetual doorstop in the NFL and will deserve it. We've stocked up on enough talent, that blessedly, for once, we can finally take risks again.

Jones has all-pro physical talent imo, and again, I saw him do things Mariota has never done in a collegiate game. I.E. a pump fake, true sack shedding, and keeping his eyes down field at all times rather than tucking and running.

And also backshoulder passes.

And no way in hell are rookie QBs worse off now than in the past. If you think otherwise, prove it.

I think this authority on the draft thing is going to your head. Your wrong as much as anyone.

Guess what bud, the so called "experts" and "professionals" and "scouts" are often as wrong if not more than us fogies on the couch too. Welcome to the real world.

If you have a chance at a guy like Jones and believe in him.....well.

And again, thru what we've all discussed, drafting Jones at #10 doesn't mean immediate starter unless he sets the world on fire. You take him at #10 because you believe a year on the bench develops him into something special.

I'd take the risk on what i've seen.

He's no more risk at #10, then blowing a 2nd or 3rd on Hundley, Petty, Cardin, Grayson, w/e. I'd be more pissed blowing those picks on those QBs than Jones at #10, or #20ish after a trade down.

 

[paceram]

ESPN radio saying it sounds unlikely that he will enter the draft at this point.

I have to admit that I was really hoping Jones would declare and the Rams would take a gamble on him. But, unfortunately like you mentioned it does sound like he is going to go back to Ohio State for at least another season.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Okay, great. I'm wrong as much as anyone. I'm still going to state my opinion. If you don't like that, you're welcome to use the ignore function.

I'm a risk taker. What can I say.

Sorry Jrry but you were the one that started a reply to my post with LOL. You disagreed with me and laughed at what I was saying first. As if it was absurd. When we both know it isnt and I supported why not many times.

We have disagreed in the past on prospects, most recently Tavon if I recall and agreed on others like Winston this year. I have no problem with that. You make many good points. But that last comment that I was mocking, what am I supposed to do with that? Bow down to the persuasive way you said it? It read like you were saying it was so, so that means it was so.

No problem here, I won't continue this ridiculous thread that makes no sense since we don't even know if the guy is even going to be in the draft this year.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If you want to play it safe all the time.....

The Rams will continue to be the perpetual doorstop in the NFL and will deserve it. We've stocked up on enough talent, that blessedly, for once, we can finally take risks again.

Jones has all-pro physical talent imo, and again, I saw him do things Mariota has never done in a collegiate game. I.E. a pump fake, true sack shedding, and keeping his eyes down field at all times rather than tucking and running.

And also backshoulder passes.

And no way in hell are rookie QBs worse off now than in the past. If you think otherwise, prove it.




Guess what bud, the so called "experts" and "professionals" and "scouts" are often as wrong if not more than us fogies on the couch too. Welcome to the real world.

If you have a chance at a guy like Jones and believe in him.....well.

And again, thru what we've all discussed, drafting Jones at #10 doesn't mean immediate starter unless he sets the world on fire. You take him at #10 because you believe a year on the bench develops him into something special.

I'd take the risk on what i've seen.

He's no more risk at #10, then blowing a 2nd or 3rd on Hundley, Petty, Cardin, Grayson, w/e. I'd be more pissed blowing those picks on those QBs than Jones at #10, or #20ish after a trade down.

I defend internet draftniks as much as anyone. Maybe more than anyone.

Sure I like to play it safer. I wouldn't have moved up for Tavon. I wouldn't even have drafted him. I don't like late bloomers. Draft picks are gold. Teams covet them for a reason. We endlessly discuss them. Mel Kyper and Mike Mayock make a big living off of them. When so many picks bust, every one of them counts. A great draft can build a dynasty. Teams that piss them away on unproven players end up like Washington trading their future on a spread QB that runs too much.

I get that sometimes teams have to take a chance on players. Especially if it is a QB because there are so few good ones available, but if Seattle had drafted Russel Wilson at 10 everyone would have laughed at them and been wrong. Ditto for the Patriots and Brady. They would have showed us that they were smarter than the workd. But those teams didn't draft them there and there was good reason not too. Because it would have been too risky to use a high first on a guy that didn't check all the boxes. And I have said it here in this thread that maybe Jones could prove to be worth it, but it will be much more difficult to do in the offseason. Right now as it stands the 'professional' consensus is that Jones is not a first round pick. I agree and you disagree. We are not changing each others minds.

 

[dieterbrock]

who? Luck? a once in a decade QB? Wilson? Okay that's two. Dalton? Please. The spread guys have to learn the pro system and nearly every team in the country runs a form of the spread these days.

I definitely think QB are less pro ready now than in the past.

Flacco took all of his college snaps from the shotgun, didnt even play D1. Roethlisberger played in a spread at Miami O and also wasnt playing top level of competition. Off the top of my head, in recent years we've had Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Mark Sanchez, Ben Roethlisberger, Wilson, Luck and RGIII. That's a lot of rookie QB. In older times, rookies didnt even play much in their first year.
I think kids coming out of high school are more college ready (more frosh/soph stud QB then ever), then are more pro ready then ever.

 

[Athos]

Sure I like to play it safer. I wouldn't have moved up for Tavon. I wouldn't even have drafted him. I don't like late bloomers. Draft picks are gold. Teams covet them for a reason. We endlessly discuss them. Mel Kyper and Mike Mayock make a big living off of them. When so many picks bust, every one of them counts. A great draft can build a dynasty. Teams that pee pee them away on unproven players end up like Washington trading their future on a spread QB that runs too much.

Well, that we can agree. I'm a fan of risk, but smart risk. You have to balance what the particular player may get you in a boom, and if he doesn't fully latch on. Tavon's floor, which is what is is so far, is PR man and RB. With WR sprinkled in. I don't think his route rawness was worth 8th and the trade.

Jones, however, wouldn't be forced to play as a rookie (you'd hope). His upside is greater than Tavon's and his floor could be KraperDink. Which, honestly, we could and have done worse when Bradford hasn't been in there.