I'm thinking we take Jones if he declares?

[jrry32]

I'd be okay with a Thaddeus Lewis backing up Sam with Jones in the wings
Although if they draft Jones I think the only way to keep Sam is to pay him his 16mill for 2015

Yep.

 

[Athos]

So the real point to all of this is not answered. I said he is not worth a top ten or even a first round pick. That is the main argument on this thread. Where would you pick him?

Preferably, in the 2nd or 3rd. I think, honestly, he's a better prospect than Hundley and he's projected to go 2nd or late 1st.

I'd pick Jones late 1st after a trade down if I had to.

If things get really interesting, yea, I'd consider him hard at #10. The QB talent after Winston/Mariota, as far as experience goes, sucks. I mean, it really sucks. Jones probably has the most physical talent at QB in this draft, probably including Winston.

And reading and hearing about him now, compared to when he had his twitter statements, he seems vastly matured. Put him under Bradford's wing if possible, and we just may have quite the diamond in the rough.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

McShay said he asked 3 scouts and right now he is a day 3 prospect. I think Todds analysis of him was right on.

 

[jrry32]

McShay said he asked 3 scouts and right now he is a day 3 prospect. I think Todds analysis of him was right on.

LOL

I'll believe it when I see it. Those scouts aren't the ones making the pick and we have no idea if they even evaluated Jones.

Logan Thomas - 4th round
Terrelle Pryor - 3rd round
JaMarcus Russell - #1
Cam Newton - #1
Daunte Culpepper - #11

Consider that for a second. Those are the guys who are most physically similar to Jones off the top of my head.

Logan Thomas looked TERRIBLE his final year. He REGRESSED over his college career and didn't show the instincts or skills to play QB at the NFL level. Yet a team took him in the fourth round despite that.

Terrelle Pryor had character concerns and didn't show the passing ability to play QB at the NFL level. Yet a team took him in the third round despite that.

Culpepper, Newton, and Russell all showed/flashed the instincts and skills that made you believe they had the passing ability for the NFL level...two of the three were #1 overall picks. The other went at #11.

You could even add Colin Kaepernick to the list...went in the 2nd round despite needing major mechanical refinement, coming from a system a lot of people considered "gimmicky", and being considered more of a "running" QB.

The truth of the matter is that Jones's raw physical talent ALONE is enough to get him drafted in the 3rd/4th round. But he's actually flashed ability.

No, there isn't much of a sample size. But consider this, in 3.5 games, he has 824 passing yards, 9.4 YPA, 60.7% completion%, 7 passing TDs, and 2 Ints. One of the two INTs bounced off the WR into the defender's hands.

3 of the 3.5 games came against Wisconsin, Alabama, and Oregon.

So imagine if he produced those sort of numbers over a season. Hell, imagine if he produced inferior numbers over a season at Ohio State...lets say 3000 passing yards, 25 passing TDs, 13 Ints, 8.5 YPA, and a 60.0% completion%.

Where do you think he gets drafted? Top 10. Without a doubt.

If he progressed and managed to post the sort of numbers he did this year over an entire season, he'd be the #1 pick.

So I feel pretty damn comfortable taking that risk. Yea, you risk that the kid would regress as more film comes out...but lets be honest, he's likely not going to regress considering you rarely play teams of Alabama's or Oregon's caliber. He's got one of the best supporting casts in football and his raw talent alone would allow him to produce highly in that offense.

For me, it's simple. I've seen flashes of NFL ability. I'll take the risk that comes with the lack of experience because I plan to develop the kid and him being a bit of a blank slate is actually a good thing for NFL coaches. But there's no denying he has #1 overall caliber physical tools.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Read the article. I wasn't referring to the draft position being right on. I was referring to McShays game analysis. He did say the scouts would have to look at Jones closer to give a more complete assessment.

I don't think at this point he is a first rounder. That doesn't mean someone won't take him with one. Nobody knows if Jones has the mental capacity to handle the NFL and those games were not a good measure of it. He had all the time in the world to make those throws. He was a man running over boys when he ran.

Remember Austin Davis was breaking Brett Favres records in college. Under the right circumstances lots of college players can look great.

I Hope he comes out so we can see how it goes. It is going to take a team a whole lot of convincing to take him in round 1.

 

[jrry32]

Read the article. I wasn't referring to the draft position being right on. I was referring to McShays game analysis. He did say the scouts would have to look at Jones closer to give a more complete assessment.

I don't think at this point he is a first rounder. That doesn't mean someone won't take him with one. Nobody knows if Jones has the mental capacity to handle the NFL and those games were not a good measure of it. He had all the time in the world to make those throws. He was a man running over boys when he ran.

Remember Austin Davis was breaking Brett Favres records in college. Under the right circumstances lots of college players can look great.

I Hope he comes out so we can see how it goes. It is going to take a team a whole lot of convincing to take him in round 1.

You could say the same thing about almost every college QB.

 

[RamFan503]

I'd be okay with a Thaddeus Lewis backing up Sam with Jones in the wings
Although if they draft Jones I think the only way to keep Sam is to pay him his 16mill for 2015

What the heck has Thaddeus done to warrant any thought of being the guy you want to see under center if Sam goes down?

 

[jjab360]

3 starts is 3 starts. You take a guy with that much inexperience top 10 in the draft and he busts you look like complete idiots imo.

 

[RamFan503]

If there's one person on that team, I'd like to have it's Urban Meyer. If he can make THOSE qb's look like that...what can he do with Austin Davis. of course I say this mostly in jest...mostly...in jest.

No chance in getting Urban away from Ohio State but if the opportunity was there - especially as an OC, I'd jump at that. I said before that it would also be a perfect match for what Fish seems to want. Pound the ball and stretch the field.

And I think Urban is why this kid looked so good along with playing against college competition. The Ducks are a good team and things could have been different if not for a couple early third down drops by Oregon receivers (sound familiar?) but let's face it, he has three starts against college teams and his offensive line man handled Alabama and Oregon. Over 200 yards rushing by one RB in all three of your games will make most QBs look awfully good.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

You could say the same thing about almost every college QB.

Yes you could, however there is a much larger sample size with which to figure it out.

In the end maybe Snead talks himself into it. But it will be desperation doing the talking. A third round pick for a very raw prospect that may take a few years to be a good NFL QB? sure. Isn't that what Russel Wilson, Tom Brady and Jimmy Garapolo types are supposed to be? Developmental?

But most first round QBs start at some point in the first year. (Aaron Rogers was an exception with Favre in front of him.)

 

[jrry32]

Yes you could, however there is a much larger sample size with which to figure it out.

In the end maybe Snead talks himself into it. But it will be desperation doing the talking. A third round pick for a very raw prospect that may take a few years to be a good NFL QB? sure. Isn't that what Russel Wilson, Tom Brady and Jimmy Garapolo types are supposed to be? Developmental?

But most first round QBs start at some point in the first year. (Aaron Rogers was an exception with Favre in front of him.)

Philip Rivers
Daunte Culpepper
Aaron Rodgers
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Steve McNair(started 2 games)

And those are just first round QBs.

Claiming that we shouldn't take him because first round QBs are supposed to start in their first year...but we can draft him later seems pretty ridiculous to me. If he's gone, he's gone.

So you either believe in the guy or you don't. If you do, you shouldn't care if he sits a year as a first rounder. It's irrelevant. You're not drafting him for what he'll be as a rookie. Are you honestly telling me you'd pass up using a first round pick on Brady if you knew you had to spend a year or two developing him? You take talent where you can get it.

It's not desperation talking. It's recognizing that a guy isn't going to be there later and capitalizing while you have the chance.

And no, a larger sample size doesn't really help you figure that stuff out.

 

[jrry32]

3 starts is 3 starts. You take a guy with that much inexperience top 10 in the draft and he busts you look like complete idiots imo.

So what?

You take a sushi raw redshirt sophomore OT at #2 and he busts, you look like a complete idiot.

You take a 6'1" 285 pound DT in the top 15 and he busts, you look like a complete idiot.

Fear of looking like an idiot doesn't play into how I draft. You don't doubt yourself. You either believe in yourself or you don't. If you don't, you're done for. Can't second guess yourself or over-analyze. That's when you make mistakes.

When you see it, you go for it. Let them think I'm a complete idiot. Fine with me. Won't be thinking that in 2-3 years when the kid is playing good football.

3 starts is 3 starts...but if we had 14 starts, he'd either be going top 3 or not be worth drafting. I'll take the risk. I've seen the positive traits that make me believe this kid can get it done with development.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Philip Rivers
Daunte Culpepper
Aaron Rodgers
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Steve McNair(started 2 games)

And those are just first round QBs.

Claiming that we shouldn't take him because first round QBs are supposed to start in their first year...but we can draft him later seems pretty ridiculous to me. If he's gone, he's gone.

So you either believe in the guy or you don't. If you do, you shouldn't care if he sits a year as a first rounder. It's irrelevant. You're not drafting him for what he'll be as a rookie. Are you honestly telling me you'd pass up using a first round pick on Brady if you knew you had to spend a year or two developing him? You take talent where you can get it.

It's not desperation talking. It's recognizing that a guy isn't going to be there later and capitalizing while you have the chance.

And no, a larger sample size doesn't really help you figure that stuff out.

It has nothing to do with what I would do. I don't dictate to NFL coaches and GMs. They make the trends, wether it be from ownership pressure to play the first rounders or just desperation. I am talking about recent history here and the pass happy, QB driven league. Your examples are a snapshot of the past. mcNair? culpepper?

Talk about LOL. They were still taking 5 runningbacks in round1 back then.

I still think that Jones will have a ton of proving to do to convince someone to take him in round1. And doing it the offseason will be difficult. Getting all giddy over his three game stint where he didn't face any adversity, is silly. I recall Austin Davis getting fans all excited with his first few game this year too.

 

[Athos]

But most first round QBs start at some point in the first year. (Aaron Rogers was an exception with Favre in front of him.)

That was the old CBA, where you could be spending vet millions on a rookie sitting on the bench.

 

[jrry32]

It has nothing to do with what I would do. I don't dictate to NFL coaches and GMs. They make the trends, wether it be from ownership pressure to play the first rounders or just desperation. I am talking about recent history here and the pass happy, QB driven league. Your examples are a snapshot of the past. mcNair? culpepper?

Talk about LOL. They were still taking 5 runningbacks in round1 back then.

I still think that Jones will have a ton of proving to do to convince someone to take him in round1. And doing it the offseason will be difficult. Getting all giddy over his three game stint where he didn't face any adversity, is silly. I recall Austin Davis getting fans all excited with his first few game this year too.

Yea, McNair and Culpepper. Two guys that have played within the last decade. One of which played for our head coach.

I don't care about "trends". The ultimate decision rests upon the coaches. And some coaches have the foresight to not do it.

Austin Davis...really?

If Austin Davis were 6'5" 260 with a rocket arm and great mobility, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

 

[dieterbrock]

What the heck has Thaddeus done to warrant any thought of being the guy you want to see under center if Sam goes down?

Well I said "a Thaddeus Lewis" meaning that type player. In any event Thad has done ok in spot start duty and if the Rams commit to sam as the starter and draft a qb #10 then they can't spend a ton on a backup as well.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yea, McNair and Culpepper. Two guys that have played within the last decade. One of which played for our head coach.

I don't care about "trends". The ultimate decision rests upon the coaches. And some coaches have the foresight to not do it.

Austin Davis...really?

If Austin Davis were 6'5" 260 with a rocket arm and great mobility, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

You are changing things that I say to fit your argument. It figures that the lawyer comes out in you in these situations. Culpepper and McNair were not DRAFTED in the last decade. Times have changed with the advent Colleges producing so few Pro ready QBs due to spread offenses, new rules and more emphasis on the passing game. Teams or coaches are pressured to play players that are not ready.

A few coaches buck the trends. Hopefully if Snead and Fisher were to believe that a guy like Jones was going to be the next great college QB to hit the pros then they would trust their scouting. More likely they would try to pick a draft slot and try to take him according to that, because that is what they seem to do since being in St. Louis. But if they are convinced the guy is a top ten pick, sure they should take him. If they think he is a third round pick but are afraid that everyone else thinks he is better should they really take him at 10? Many teams have done it that way and wasted first rounders on bad QBs.

And yes Austin Davis really. He looked good for a few games, just like Jones did. When Davis was not under a heavy pass rush he looked like a capable QB. Then under duress he was a completely different QB. We have not seen Jones under duress. He was picking cherries back there for three games.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

That was the old CBA, where you could be spending vet millions on a rookie sitting on the bench.

They still do it. Bridgewater, Carr, Bortles. Every year they are starting QBs that could use some seasoning instead.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Mayock just said on Mike and Mike in the morning that he would be hard pressed to say that Jones would even go in the top 100 picks in the draft. I am not a huge Mayock believer but I know you are Jrry.

 

[Memphis Ram]

3 starts is 3 starts. You take a guy with that much inexperience top 10 in the draft and he busts you look like complete idiots imo.

And if he hits you look like a complete genius.