Goff or not Goff?

[Allen2McVay]

Kurt Warner would like a word...

I can’t believe I forgot Warner. I am so ashamed.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

There's certain group that is going to look for every reason they can to diss Goff and make some up if they have to, while never giving him credit for anything. They will hand wave his success in Detroit away because he has a good supporting cast (as if you could put anyone behind center with that cast and get the same results). They will ignore how he's rebuilt his career and come back to thrive after going through circumstances that would have derailed most guys careers, turning them into journeymen/backups (see our own most recent backup QB). They will ignore every great play he makes but the instance he makes a bad one (and all QBs do), they will pounce and act as if that's what he always does all the time. They will ignore that he's taken a franchise that has been shit for decades, won two playoff games in two weeks and is playing deep into January.

It's not enough that he got traded away, it's not enough that we did get a better QB who was a better fit for our HC, it's not enough that we won a Super Bowl in the first year with the new QB. They've got to hang onto the Goff hate like Golem with his precious.

So Brad Holmes and the coaches don’t have much to do with the Lions success? It’s all Goff taking the Lions this far? I’d argue that several above average QBs could do the same with that team. Great protection, good scheme, good weapons, etc…

Goff still struggles with pressure. The biggest similarity between good LA Goff and good Detroit Goff is he had time to throw in both situations. He’s a very accurate passer with time to throw.

Once teams started using six man fronts he was a different QB. So they found a weakness and everyone exploited it. Maybe the Rams should have gotten him a better Oline. I had been yelling at the mountains for one even before Fisher was the coach. Goff needs time to throw and a less complicated scheme than what McVays was evolving into. Holmes knew it and got it done. (And yes, even Aaron Rodgers said that LaFluer’s offense, which is similar to McVay’s is not an easy offense for QBs to run)

No hate necessary. No calling out the haters who remember the game killing turnovers. Just two perspectives. But he wasn’t a victim. He doesn’t need to feel like one, or have resentment imo. Players move around this league all of the time, for various reasons. Most don’t end up hating on the team that traded them, or left them go.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

He was publicly dumped by McVay. It left a mark and it still fuels Goff. He acknowledges that, but doesn't nurse the revenge angle. He and McVay have handled it with class, but I doubt they will ever be on friendly terms again.

McVay may not have handled it well. But have you ever seen him so frustrated with one player before or after Goff? IMO it says that there was more to the stories about McVay believing that Goff’s work ethic was not on par with previous years. That would infuriate him.

The before Goff
(2017-2018) and after Goff (2019-2020) looked like two different players. At one point McVay was trying to pare down the offense to half field reads to help him out.

And no, I don’t hate Goff, but I was glad to see them move on. I’m also glad Goff found his groove again. But, it doesn’t mean I’m going to root for the Lions. Goff is only one player on that team.

 

[thirteen28]

So Brad Holmes and the coaches don’t have much to do with the Lions success? It’s all Goff taking the Lions this far? I’d argue that several above average QBs could do the same with that team. Great protection, good scheme, good weapons, etc…

Goff still struggles with pressure. The biggest similarity between good LA Goff and good Detroit Goff is he had time to throw in both situations. He’s a very accurate passer with time to throw.

Where did deny any credit to Holmes or the coaches, or say the Goff was solely responsible for the Lions success? That's a strawman.

What I do recognize though is that Goff has rebuilt his career from the ashes, and a lot of guys never do that once they hit the point where he was at the end of 2020. And while no, he doesn't handle pressure as well as Stafford or can't make some of the ridiculous throws, he can still make a lot of good ones. I don't agree with those that think he's just an average QB, I think he's a pretty damn good one, just not one who's a the elite level. He's toward the top of the next level IMO, and if a team has a guy like that with sufficient talent around him, they can go far. But you couldn't put just anybody behind center in the Lions offense and get the same production he's getting.

As far as resentment, I don't see where he's shown that, certainly not toward the Rams as a team. I'm sure his opinion toward McVay and the way things ended is not good, but I also think some of it is justified both for the way it was made so public and the way he was blamed for so many of the Rams problems while things like the OL were neglected. And for Jared, it's a good thing if he felt dissed and used that as fuel. There was a lot of talk around here at the time of his decline that he didn't care, but the fact that he took it personally and used it as fuel to rebuild his career and have the success he's having now shows that theory was unadulterated bullshit.

I get that he's no longer a Ram, and I certainly wish it was the Rams playing this weekend instead of the Lions. But when it's not affecting the Rams, I'll still root for Jared because he's a good guy, was a huge part of the Rams turnaround from the 12 years of The Great Suck, and he's shown a shitload of resilience and mental toughness of coming back to his current level from where he was in January of 2021. A shining example of how to deal with setbacks on one's life.

 

[Turducken]

McVay may not have handled it well. But have you ever seen him so frustrated with one player before or after Goff? IMO it says that there was more to the stories about McVay believing that Goff’s work ethic was not on par with previous years. That would infuriate him.

The before Goff
(2017-2018) and after Goff (2019-2020) looked like two different players. At one point McVay was trying to pare down the offense to half field reads to help him out.

And no, I don’t hate Goff, but I was glad to see them move on. I’m also glad Goff found his groove again. But, it doesn’t mean I’m going to root for the Lions. Goff is only one player on that team.

Their relationship had run its course. Both teams got better with this trade.

McVay got a QB who was ready to execute his offense at the highest levels. The Lions got a very good (younger) QB along with enough extra draft picks to make them competitive for years.

 

[Ewe83]

 

[dieterbrock]

I can’t believe I forgot Warner. I am so ashamed.

How about Peyton Manning?

 

[Allen2McVay]

How about Peyton Manning?

Dear God! What's wrong with me!! Don't answer that!!!

 

[Ramon Ram]

Dear God! What's wrong with me!! Don't answer that!!!

And Manning is the only one who won and lost Super Bowl with 2 different teams.
Colts - lost to Saints and beat Bears
Broncos - lost to Seahawks and beat Panthers

 

[Allen2McVay]

And Manning is the only one who won and lost Super Bowl with 2 different teams.
Colts - lost to Saints and beat Bears
Broncos - lost to Seahawks and beat Panthers

You have to be patient with me.
I only started following football last week.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Where did deny any credit to Holmes or the coaches, or say the Goff was solely responsible for the Lions success? That's a strawman.

What I do recognize though is that Goff has rebuilt his career from the ashes, and a lot of guys never do that once they hit the point where he was at the end of 2020. And while no, he doesn't handle pressure as well as Stafford or can't make some of the ridiculous throws, he can still make a lot of good ones. I don't agree with those that think he's just an average QB, I think he's a pretty damn good one, just not one who's a the elite level. He's toward the top of the next level IMO, and if a team has a guy like that with sufficient talent around him, they can go far. But you couldn't put just anybody behind center in the Lions offense and get the same production he's getting.

As far as resentment, I don't see where he's shown that, certainly not toward the Rams as a team. I'm sure his opinion toward McVay and the way things ended is not good, but I also think some of it is justified both for the way it was made so public and the way he was blamed for so many of the Rams problems while things like the OL were neglected. And for Jared, it's a good thing if he felt dissed and used that as fuel. There was a lot of talk around here at the time of his decline that he didn't care, but the fact that he took it personally and used it as fuel to rebuild his career and have the success he's having now shows that theory was unadulterated bullshit.

I get that he's no longer a Ram, and I certainly wish it was the Rams playing this weekend instead of the Lions. But when it's not affecting the Rams, I'll still root for Jared because he's a good guy, was a huge part of the Rams turnaround from the 12 years of The Great Suck, and he's shown a shitload of resilience and mental toughness of coming back to his current level from where he was in January of 2021. A shining example of how to deal with setbacks on one's life.

"They will ignore that he's taken a franchise that has been shit for decades, won two playoff games in two weeks and is playing deep into January."

This is what you said. Did you deny credit to anyone else? Technically no. However this sounds like you are giving him alk if the credit.

 

[thirteen28]

"They will ignore that he's taken a franchise that has been shit for decades, won two playoff games in two weeks and is playing deep into January."

This is what you said. Did you deny credit to anyone else? Technically no. However this sounds like you are giving him alk if the credit.

You’re being pedantic.

If I say “Stafford won a Super Bowl with the Rams” am I denying credit to Kupp, Donald, Snead, and McVay?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

You’re being pedantic.

If I say “Stafford won a Super Bowl with the Rams” am I denying credit to Kupp, Donald, Snead, and McVay?

No, it’s completely different to say ‘won a Super Bowl with’ and ‘Taken them to a Super Bowl’. I’d argue that in the Super Boel Stafford with only one starting weapon left, was more crucial to winning that game than any other QB in recent memory. However that’s another topic.

You add to the dramatics by saying Goff is taking a franchise that’s been shit for decades. This clearly isn’t the same franchise. It’s not the same GM, coach, or roster. It’s a very good roster with a very good offensive coordinator.

What I’m saying is that you are over exaggerating Goff’s accomplishment, obviously to help prove your point. It’s a big exaggeration imo.

 

[thirteen28]

No, it’s completely different to say ‘won a Super Bowl with’ and ‘Taken them to a Super Bowl’. I’d argue that in the Super Boel Stafford with only one starting weapon left, was more crucial to winning that game than any other QB in recent memory. However that’s another topic.

You add to the dramatics by saying Goff is taking a franchise that’s been shit for decades. This clearly isn’t the same franchise. It’s not the same GM, coach, or roster. It’s a very good roster with a very good offensive coordinator.

What I’m saying is that you are over exaggerating Goff’s accomplishment, obviously to help prove your point. It’s a big exaggeration imo.

Earlier in the thread, I wrote this:

There's certain group that is going to look for every reason they can to diss Goff and make some up if they have to, while never giving him credit for anything. They will hand wave his success in Detroit away because he has a good supporting cast (as if you could put anyone behind center with that cast and get the same results).

In other threads, I've complimented Brad Holmes numerous times, and I'm pretty sure I even predicted Detroit would get better when they initially hired him.

So, you're just being pedantic, and perhaps that first sentence I wrote in the portion quoted above applies to you at least in part.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Earlier in the thread, I wrote this:




In other threads, I've complimented Brad Holmes numerous times, and I'm pretty sure I even predicted Detroit would get better when they initially hired him.

So, you're just being pedantic, and perhaps that first sentence I wrote in the portion quoted above applies to you at least in part.

Or I didn’t read your earlier comments and took your exaggerated Goff comment for what it was.

 

[Ramon Ram]

I found myself rooting for the Niners more so due to playoff fantasy leagues I was in but also deep down I realized I did not want to see Goff or Detroit make it to the big game. I will now get to root against the Niners with all my heart in 2 weeks.

 

[OnceARam]

Detroit has to move on from Goff. Can not believe they just lost the NFC championship game to the fìgn Whiners.

It is almost comical how bad Goff is if he has to move off his spot or make a play outside of structure.

Rams won the trade, that is for sure.

 

[Tano]

Detroit has to move on from Goff. Can not believe they just lost the NFC championship game to the fìgn Whiners.

It is almost comical how bad Goff is if he has to move off his spot or make a play outside of structure.

Rams won the trade, that is for sure.

I admit he isn't good when he has to do that but Reynolds should not have dropped two key passes.

I blame Reynolds more than I blame Goff for that game.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I admit he isn't good when he has to do that but Reynolds should not have dropped two key passes.

I blame Reynolds more than I blame Goff for that game.

Two plays = the whole game? Or even the entire quarter?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The Lions offensive line is very good. However, against the Niners it seemed to give up more pressure in the fourth quarter. Against the Rams they started to struggle with the pass rush by the second quarter. It’s almost like they get worn down before the end of the game.