What Happens to La’el Collins Now?

[tahoe]

I say sign the guy and if hes guilty you dont lose much money

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Which is about the same as if drafted late in the 3rd, according to this:

http://overthecap.com/what-can-lael-collins-earn-as-an-undrafted-free-agent/

Every undrafted rookie is locked into signing a three year contract. The three year contract will contain the minimum Paragraph 5 salary in each year, which will equal payouts of $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016, and $615,000 in 2017. These are the same numbers as rookies drafted after the 3rd round and many of the players drafted in the third round, so it is not a major loss for Collins of any player who was not projected to be a 2nd round pick.

But some felt that Collins could go in round 1

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I say sign the guy and if hes guilty you dont lose much money

I agree, sign him now, except I heard one guy on the radio claiming that Goodell forbid it until he is announced as definitely not being a suspect in the case.

 

[Akrasian]

Now, Collins took the lie detector. I think that was a mistake because they really aren't lie detectors as stress detectors administered by A-holes and for a young man about to be drafted, I'm very surprised he passed. But he did.

Lie detector tests begin with a series of innocuous questions to establish a baseline of stress. If you are already stressed, then the baseline is already high, and it actually makes it more difficult to measure an even higher level of stress caused by lying.

One of the reasons that lie detectors are pretty useless in real life.

 

[MrMotes]

But some felt that Collins could go in round 1

Right, but we were talking about him saying he wouldn't sign if drafted later than the third. Turns out the contract would be the same in either case.

I have to think there's at least a whiff that he's more involved than he's saying or someone would have drafted him (or maybe it's like you heard and Goodell told everyone to lay off).

 

[Ken]

I don't understand why the NFL didn't give this kid an 'exemption' from the draft as his agent requested as a special case. They were wrong not to. If he is innocent, it seems to me he has an almost slam dunk winning lawsuit against the NFL, if he wanted to pursue it. If I was in his place and cleared of any wrongdoing, I would demand being put in the supplemental draft or sue the NFL. The risk of a career ending injury is too great to justify letting the NFL rape you. I'd settle for the NFL paying for insurance to cover such injury during my 1st contract to be compensated for ~mid-1st round guaranteed money. In the end I think the NFL will let him enter the supplemental draft. Worse case I would sit out the season, stay in shape and become a UFA.

 

[MrMotes]

I don't understand why the NFL didn't give this kid an 'exemption' from the draft as his agent requested as a special case. They were wrong not to. If he is innocent, it seems to me he has an almost slam dunk winning lawsuit against the NFL, if he wanted to pursue it. If I was in his place and cleared of any wrongdoing, I would demand being put in the supplemental draft or sue the NFL. The risk of a career ending injury is too great to justify letting the NFL rape you. I'd settle for the NFL paying for insurance to cover such injury during my 1st contract to be compensated for ~mid-1st round guaranteed money. In the end I think the NFL will let him enter the supplemental draft. Worse case I would sit out the season, stay in shape and become a UFA.

Absolutely.

And if they colluded at Goodell's request not to draft him?

 

[…..]

I don't understand why the NFL didn't give this kid an 'exemption' from the draft as his agent requested as a special case. They were wrong not to. If he is innocent, it seems to me he has an almost slam dunk winning lawsuit against the NFL, if he wanted to pursue it. If I was in his place and cleared of any wrongdoing, I would demand being put in the supplemental draft or sue the NFL. The risk of a career ending injury is too great to justify letting the NFL rape you. I'd settle for the NFL paying for insurance to cover such injury during my 1st contract to be compensated for ~mid-1st round guaranteed money. In the end I think the NFL will let him enter the supplemental draft. Worse case I would sit out the season, stay in shape and become a UFA.

Because they didnt want to set a precendent and allow others to follow with similiar requests that may water down what constitutes fair practices.

Player "Hey Rodge, I have a family reuinion coming up on draft weekend, can I get an exemption?"
Rodger "We dont normally like to that, is there anyway you can get your mother to text you a few pictures of this memorable family event?"
Player "I would but I already spent $734.00 on my flight. My agent says it wouldnt be a problem and I havent seen Uncle Leon in 10 years"


And lets not forget that playing in the NFL is still a priveladge, not a right. If you miss a job interview with Corporate America because you get pulled over for a ticket, you cant sue to to reschedule!

 

[Prime Time]

Now, Collins took the lie detector. I think that was a mistake because they really aren't lie detectors as stress detectors administered by A-holes and for a young man about to be drafted, I'm very surprised he passed. But he did. Doesn't make him innocent. Doesn't make him guilty.

Didn't know he took a polygraph and passed. A mistake indeed unless a judge allows it during the trial.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/01/are-lie-detectors-admissible-in-court.html

Are Lie Detectors Admissible in Court?
By Deanne Katz, Esq.

On TV and in movies, polygraph tests or lie detectors are a popular way to nail a suspect. But are they actually admissible in court?

Courts don't have to admit lie detector tests, according to a U.S. Supreme Court case that specifies how courts deal with scientific evidence. Instead, individual judges have discretion to decide if a polygraph will be admitted based on certain criteria.

Why isn't it a clear yes or no, as to whether lie detector tests are admissible? To get to the answer, you need to know a bit about how lie detectors work and how courts deal with scientific tests.

Polygraph tests are based on the assumption that people give off certain physiological indicators when they lie. That includes things like increased heart rate and perspiration.

The polygraph machine is hooked up to a suspect and measures a variety of factors to determine if someone is lying. Lie detectors were very popular with law enforcement for years, but now their findings are often questioned.

The problem is that polygraphs can be fooled.

In some cases, people intentionally fool them by practicing telling a lie so that their body doesn't betray them during the test. Those kinds of countermeasures can prevent the machine from getting an accurate readout.

There's also a less devious and interesting way to fool a polygraph test. If you're nervous while the questions are being asked, the results will likely be inconclusive.

It turns out the symptoms of nervousness or anxiety are the same symptoms people exhibit when lying. So for individuals who are worried about the test itself, it may be hard to distinguish that fear from the reaction produced by actual lying.

Because of that kind of inconsistency, the Supreme Court instituted standards for determining if scientific evidence, like a polygraph, could be admitted in court.

For something like a polygraph test, the party that wants it admitted must show that the theory behind it was tested and subject to peer review and publication. The test must also have a known error rate, and it must be generally accepted by the scientific community.

In some cases, like in military courts, the use of polygraphs has been banned outright. But generally speaking, it's an individual judge's decision. Each judge must make an evaluation based on the information provided, and so each court can decide differently.

That doesn't mean a lie detector is something to laugh about. But understanding how it works may make you more comfortable and thus less likely to get a false positive.

Even if the test isn't used in court, it can still be used by police during questioning. If that happens to you, make sure to have an experienced criminal lawyer present to make sure there's no funny business.

 

[12intheBox]

Polygraphs are crap. They have no value in the real world .... The real point of them is to see how people react when you ask them to take one and to see how they act when you have the results in hand.

 

[Ken]

Because they didnt want to set a precendent and allow others to follow with similiar requests that may water down what constitutes fair practices.

Disagree. This is a perfect case for setting a precedent. No offense, but your example of a similar request, while humorous, was weak. How about adding verbiage to the CBA (or whatever the legal document) that a draft eligible player who becomes a 'person of interest' in an ongoing criminal investigation may opt out of the draft for which he was eligible and retain his eligibility for entry in a subsequent draft.

Problem solved.

 

[…..]

Disagree. This is a perfect case for setting a precedent. No offense, but your example of a similar request, while humorous, was weak. How about adding verbiage to the CBA (or whatever the legal document) that a draft eligible player who becomes a 'person of interest' in an ongoing criminal investigation may opt out of the draft for which he was eligible and retain his eligibility for entry in a subsequent draft.

Problem solved.

My example is about as weak as the request to draft a new rule or provide last minute exception at zero hour of the draft event.

So adding verbiage would appease you ? Or do you just want to throw daggers at the league for everything in life that presents itself as a new problem. Same situation with the Ray Rice fiasco. The league was not prepared to handle it because who'd have thought that specific rules against beating the crap out of your girlfriend in an elevator would need to be be added to the growing list of "Things NOT TO FUCKING DO!"

I'm sure they'll discuss it because it has now happened. God help us all if we need a bylaw to address issues if you are caught up in murder questioning. Unbelieveable.

Sad for Mister Collins. Even sadder for the woman , baby and her family. But shit happens in life. Last thing on my to do list is to appease another over paid athelete that has an elevated sense of entitlement.

 

[Mackeyser]

I agree with Ken.

As we FINALLY are enforcing DV laws as well as seeing much better murder investigations (it's not just the wealthy where forensics come into play now), essentially that has the potential to cast a wider net.

This literally may have NOTHING to do with La'el Collins other than this happened to someone he used to know.

Is he supposed to lose $10M because some Parrish precinct isn't equipped to deal quickly with a murder investigation that is compounded with the death of an infant? Presuming he's innocent, of course.

This doesn't HAVE to be complicated. What Ken wrote is very simple and would allow a very simple timetable. Something like this:

If a person between the Draft declaration deadline and the Draft becomes a Person of Interest or otherwise involved in an ongoing investigation, that person has the right to withdraw from that Draft and have that counted as if he weren't drafted. He would be eligible to declare for the next draft as long as all pending investigations were concluded.

If such language were included, it would protect the players and it would protect teams and the NFL from any PR nightmares because it would incentivize players to "come in clean" rather than to place the PR burden on the NFL. That alone should be reason enough for the NFL to like it. But it also allows players an exit in such a way that they can clear their names and re-enter the draft without the stigma of an investigation hanging over their heads.

Of course, it seems like a simple solution to a rather complicated problem that checks a LOT of boxes... which is why I can't see anything like it ever being done...

 

[MTRamsFan]

Collins enters the Arena Football League, and works at a convenience store until a RAMS scout sees him play, convinces the FO to "Take A Chance" and sign him to the roster, where he goes on to be an all-pro, win a couple Super Bowl rings, and be enshrined into the HOF.

In all seriousness, I'm sure his agent is working to get him on a roster if/when this matter blows over, and, if he has no direct/indirect involvement. My guess is he will be playing in the NFL in 2015, and I would take the chance of getting him on the roster if I was in the FO.

 

[Ken]

My example is about as weak as the request to draft a new rule or provide last minute exception at zero hour of the draft event.

It was a last minute situation that occurred. If he's guilty he'll never have an NFL career. I assume he's innocent. This would be for innocent players. I'm not OK with telling a player who would likely be a high draft pick who, through no fault of their own, becomes undraftable, well them's the breaks, that's life, shit happens. We all understand life's not fair. But I believe in fixing unfairness, if possible. This particular situation is not fair to Collins, assuming he's innocent, and it's an easy fix. I can't understand why you would have a problem with it.

 

[…..]

It was a last minute situation that occurred. If he's guilty he'll never have an NFL career. I assume he's innocent. This would be for innocent players. I'm not OK with telling a player who would likely be a high draft pick who, through no fault of their own, becomes undraftable, well them's the breaks, that's life, crap happens. We all understand life's not fair. But I believe in fixing unfairness, if possible. This particular situation is not fair to Collins, assuming he's innocent, and it's an easy fix. I can't understand why you would have a problem with it.

I dont actually have a problem with it and thought initially that it was a good idea to request entry into the supplemental draft. I also assume he is innocent and this is all very unfortunate and life changing for him. Its an easy fix yes.....NEXT time. (or, since he was not drafted, the nfl can now relax with the draft festivities complete and revisit the request?)

The last minute nature of it all is hopefully at the root. The eve or morning of the draft is clearly not the best time to get the Commish to sit down and hear details of a tragic event that affects a potential employee. Adding to it all is the last years multiple events of poor personal conduct by players, including staight up thug murder convictions, and its not so hard to see how the NFL would be waaaaaay hands off in this case.

I think where you and I may disagree is that I am ok (reluctently, but still ok) with telling a player that he has become undraftable. Not fault of his, and due to the circumstances, also no fault of the NFL. Unfortunately, life does happen and it not always fair. I'm a believer that life is not about what happens to you, but how you react to what happens to you. This young man needs to dust himself off and turn this into a compelling feel good story. La'el Collins is owed nothing.

 

[…..]

Of course, it seems like a simple solution to a rather complicated problem that checks a LOT of boxes... which is why I can't see anything like it ever being done...

ROFL

 

[Ken]

If it's still unresolved I assume he wouldn't declare for that draft.