The Goff thread to end all Goff threads

[Elmgrovegnome]

Well, that's not the point I'm making. That's actually miles off from the point I'm making. I'm saying you can fairly blame in football. But the key word in that phrase is "fairly." When you give the credit for the offense's successes to McVay and the blame for its failures to Goff, you're not being fair. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Everyone already knows that. But most of the time the blame is more on one player than the rest. That is mostly true for the QB who leads the offense, makes the decisions and touches the ball on every play.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I have watched the All 22 and to me it appeared that McVay designed the short pass plays to be the intended target and if he wasn't open that Goff would then go to the deep receiver if he was open. But I rarely saw Goff have time to do that.

I do not know if McVay designed the plays that way because of Goff or because the line wasn't giving Goff enough time.

It could have been both. I really don't know.

Remember I did a write up on every pass play in the Seattle game and there may have been 2 or 3 plays that I think Goff possibly could have gone deep instead of the short pass play. And even on those plays, it was iffy that Goff should have gone deep.

You can blame the line, but other quarterbacks overcome that problem by moving their spot and resetting to throw, all the while there read the field looking for open receivers. It really seems like Goff isn’t good at that. So he’s holding back the offense. His instincts to run aRent even very good. He passes up opportunities where the best move is to run forward.

 

[Angry Ram]

Well, to be fair, Stafford had 44 turnovers between 2012 & 2013. Throw a lot of passes, balls are gonna get picked.
Thing about Goff is that he only has had 2 turnovers in 5 playoff games

Yes he did. My point is not necessarily a directly Jared Goff/Matthew Stafford comparison. All I know is Jared's INTs from the last couple years, that I don't recall it was because of other factors, like ricocheting off a WRs hands or off a hail mary at the end of a half/game so it would be meaningless. Most were bad decisions or throws. He had 2 terrible TOs against Tampa in a must win game on the road. Thank god for the D. Does anyone think Jared could've led the team back at that point in his career?

No one (sans for some Detriot Lions fans) is hype for Jared Goff as a Lion. He's JAG now.

 

[Tano]

You can blame the line, but other quarterbacks overcome that problem by moving their spot and resetting to throw, all the while there read the field looking for open receivers. It really seems like Goff isn’t good at that. So he’s holding back the offense. His instincts to run aRent even very good. He passes up opportunities where the best move is to run forward.

I am not directly blaming the line on that write-up except for the longer developing plays.

I am saying the play designs from McVay were designed primarily as short passes.

And I do not know if it was because McVay did not trust Goff or if McVay did not trust the line or both. I really don't know. Only McVay knows.

I do agree with you that Goff is terrible at avoiding the rush up the middle. (But so is Brady - his one weakness - at least the last few years.)

I really wanted a good to very good center this year to see if it really was Goff who hadn't progressed or if Goff didn't trust the middle and rushed his passes to be short quick passes. I am of the position that if Goff got the Green Bay Packer center or someone almost as good which the Rams could have afforded since their CAP went up 8 Million or so after the trade (I think with all the restructures and even after signing Lloyd that the Rams would have had over 15M to sign a center) that Goff would be back to the 2018 Goff. But we will never know now.

But we got Stafford and am hoping that the Rams will not put him in the same position as Goff by giving him an unreliable center on 3rd and long.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I am not directly blaming the line on that write-up except for the longer developing plays.

I am saying the play designs from McVay were designed primarily as short passes.

And I do not know if it was because McVay did not trust Goff or if McVay did not trust the line or both. I really don't know. Only McVay knows.

I do agree with you that Goff is terrible at avoiding the rush up the middle. (But so is Brady - his one weakness - at least the last few years.)

I really wanted a good to very good center this year to see if it really was Goff who hadn't progressed or if Goff didn't trust the middle and rushed his passes to be short quick passes. I am of the position that if Goff got the Green Bay Packer center or someone almost as good which the Rams could have afforded since their CAP went up 8 Million or so after the trade (I think with all the restructures and even after signing Lloyd that the Rams would have had over 15M to sign a center) that Goff would be back to the 2018 Goff. But we will never know now.

But we got Stafford and am hoping that the Rams will not put him in the same position as Goff by giving him an unreliable center on 3rd and long.

I guess we won’t find out until next season. I hope for Goff that he improves. I don’t hate the guy. But if I had to bet either way on wether or not he grows into a top ten QB, then I know which way I’d bet. I think his weaknesses are well known and McVays offense was figured out and Jared didn’t adjust to well to that. So now Goff moves on and has to do it with a less dynamic offense and if it’s anything like Stafford had in Detroit, much tighter throwing windows.

 

[payote75]

For all we know most of the article can be true or false. We cannot pick and choose what we want to believe because it suits our points. If you bring the article into play then the whole article is valid. So @FrantikRam is correct on bringing up that point. The article is the article. This is football. Players get singled out, berated, yelled at, etc. Happens in a lot of sports. He gave Goff game balls as well he stuck up for him constantly throwing himself on the sword. He got the guy paid for Christ sakes. At some point Goff should have learned or worked at it til he got it maybe thrown himself on the sword occasionally. See mcvay can get Goff 150 million dollars but Goff cant do the same for Mcvay. What Goff can do is underperform and get him fired. All angles need to be looked at.

Sports is not the real world of jobs it is a different animal but if you want to use the boss analogy then hey at what point do I as the boss sing your praises to my bosses get you a raise and you make me look foolish. Then my job comes into question so it's either me or you. It's probably takes more balls to go to your bosses and admit I made a mistake. He defended him to the press, to the organisation, to critics, and was big enough to admit he may have been wrong.
All that said we need to wait.
I try to be impartial but sometimes "Goff sensitive or sensitive in general" people basically making it look like Goff was mistreated thats ridiculous and makes one swing to the other side to provide both p.o.v.'s It's like God damn politics. Can't we just be in the middle and wait for the results before passing judgement. Guess what if goff lights it up and mcvays blows it there's your answer. Other way around then there's your answer. Should they both excel preferable outcome then simply a change was needed. Patience is virtue.

 

[Faceplant]

If that's the case, then why replace Goff with a superior QB? Surely if the throws are there for the taking, they could have just stuck with Wolford, traded for Minshew or signed Andy Dalton. Why the need for a top 10 QB making 30+ mill per year?

To hopefully win the Superbowl. Love it or hate it, that is the all in formula for this FO. Not sure how any fan would not be on board...

 

[Faceplant]

If there is one sad thing that this situation has shown me..... It is that there are "fans" on here that will without a doubt hope that our team fails just so they can puff out their internet chest. They may say differently, but with some..... Yeah, you can just tell.... And it's pathetic.

 

[dieterbrock]

To hopefully win the Superbowl. Love it or hate it, that is the all in formula for this FO. Not sure how any fan would not be on board...

maybe you should re-read the thread. When you take things out of context it paints an incorrect picture.

 

[btfd16]

If there is one sad thing that this situation has shown me..... It is that there are "fans" on here that will without a doubt hope that our team fails just so they can puff out their internet chest. They may say differently, but with some..... Yeah, you can just tell.... And it's pathetic.

You must have not met Flounch

 

[wolfdogg]

Yet, you credit the coach when the QB makes the right throws and reads. You see why that comes off as hypocritical to me, right?



Nope, it was 1% better than expected.



Yeah, I am better than doing that. So ask yourself why you think it's proper to even blame McVay's play-calling failures on Goff. It's baffling. When the offense succeeds, it's McVay's doing. When the offense fails, it's Goff's doing.

I don't see where I gave credit to the coach for goff's good decisions and throws. Why would I? I gave goff credit when he made good decisions and good throws. The coach can call a good or bad play but the decision on where to throw the ball and the throw itself is all on the qb. Just like when a coach decides to kick a 20 yard field goal instead of going for it on 4th and 10. That's the appropriate playcall and if the kicker misses it, it's on the kicker, right?

For instance, in the jets game goff throws one of the worst picks you'll ever see. The rams are on their own 34 and Goff has kupp as an option a few yards past the line of scrimmage but woods is wide open about 8 yards further downfield. I credit the coach for the playcall and the receivers for getting open. I also credit goff for making the decision to throw to woods instead kupp but I blame goff for making such a horrible throw that it ends being a pick, which, btw, was run back to the rams 22 and lead to a field goal.

I don't know how on earth anyone can watch that play and blame anyone but the qb for that horrible throw and int.

I give credit and blame to the coach for the playcall, and the players for how they execute. You can have bad plays called that are bailed out by the players and you can have good plays ruined by bad execution. By your logic why not blame the coach when the receivers drop a pass of the kicker misses an extra point. The coach can only put the players in a position to complete a play. The rest is up to the players.

 

[wolfdogg]

Play action is not some strange new strange concept that no that no quarterback has ever been able to master.

I saw on NFL network where they showed stafford's play action numbers are better than goff's so that's a good thing and something I bet the rams took into consideration

 

[Tano]

I guess we won’t find out until next season. I hope for Goff that he improves. I don’t hate the guy. But if I had to bet either way on wether or not he grows into a top ten QB, then I know which way I’d bet. I think his weaknesses are well known and McVays offense was figured out and Jared didn’t adjust to well to that. So now Goff moves on and has to do it with a less dynamic offense and if it’s anything like Stafford had in Detroit, much tighter throwing windows.

I will give you a like for that. One thing in Goff's favor at Detroit is that he has an all-pro center.

So maybe he will do well or maybe he falls on his ass. I am hoping that Detroit doesn't become Death Valley for him like Jets QBs have when they get drafted by the Jets because I have no clue how the Detroit regime is going to perform. Are the Lions going to continue being like the Jets or will they become Rams 2.0 after 2017. If there is one team that I wouldn't mind doing well in that division are the Lions.

Don't like the Vikings or Bears and I am not a big fan of Rodgers at Green Bay - seems like he can be a dick.

 

[Tano]

I don't see where I gave credit to the coach for goff's good decisions and throws. Why would I? I gave goff credit when he made good decisions and good throws. The coach can call a good or bad play but the decision on where to throw the ball and the throw itself is all on the qb. Just like when a coach decides to kick a 20 yard field goal instead of going for it on 4th and 10. That's the appropriate playcall and if the kicker misses it, it's on the kicker, right?

For instance, in the jets game goff throws one of the worst picks you'll ever see. The rams are on their own 34 and Goff has kupp as an option a few yards past the line of scrimmage but woods is wide open about 8 yards further downfield. I credit the coach for the playcall and the receivers for getting open. I also credit goff for making the decision to throw to woods instead kupp but I blame goff for making such a horrible throw that it ends being a pick, which, btw, was run back to the rams 22 and lead to a field goal.

I don't know how on earth anyone can watch that play and blame anyone but the qb for that horrible throw and int.

I give credit and blame to the coach for the playcall, and the players for how they execute. You can have bad plays called that are bailed out by the players and you can have good plays ruined by bad execution. By your logic why not blame the coach when the receivers drop a pass of the kicker misses an extra point. The coach can only put the players in a position to complete a play. The rest is up to the players.

Well you can blame the players for execution but you can blame the coach for play calls.

Yes Goff made bad passes. But McVay wasn't perfect in his play calls either.

I saw horrible passes by Stafford last year in his first 3 games. Players make bad plays from time to time.

Did Goff make more than his fair share? Probably - but I feel he is still learning and can get better. But I am patient on that end but it was time for Goff to go because coaches can't be as patient as I am. Coaches want players that can execute their system and from everything I have been reading, Goff was not the guy for McVay's system. I am sad because of that but am learning to live with it.

 

[wolfdogg]

Your stats are wrong. Matt Stafford has played in three playoff games (all losses). And Goff has played in only six playoff games (with a 3-3 record).

Your're right. I read the playoff stats on nfl.com as just that, playoff games. I consider the SB the SB and not a playoff game. Anyway, my mistake, but still, 4 td's in 5 playoff games and 1 SB? That's only one td every 6 quarters which would be really really bad even for a team that didn't have the rams offense.

 

[jrry32]

I don't know how on earth anyone can watch that play and blame anyone but the qb for that horrible throw and int.

I give credit and blame to the coach for the playcall, and the players for how they execute. You can have bad plays called that are bailed out by the players and you can have good plays ruined by bad execution. By your logic why not blame the coach when the receivers drop a pass of the kicker misses an extra point. The coach can only put the players in a position to complete a play. The rest is up to the players.

Nobody would blame anybody but Goff for that pick. But that was a single play in that game. We were playing an 0-13 team and stunk up the field. The entire team came out flat. So yeah, it baffles me when people imply that the blame for that loss falls entirely on Goff's shoulders because he threw one INT. There are certainly plenty of examples of coaching putting players in positions to succeed and players not executing. But what bothers me is when people opt to credit the coach over the player when it is the player who went out and executed. Both deserve credit. And when things aren't going well, both are usually at fault.

 

[wolfdogg]

Well you can blame the players for execution but you can blame the coach for play calls.

Yes Goff made bad passes. But McVay wasn't perfect in his play calls either.

I saw horrible passes by Stafford last year in his first 3 games. Players make bad plays from time to time.

Did Goff make more than his fair share? Probably - but I feel he is still learning and can get better. But I am patient on that end but it was time for Goff to go because coaches can't be as patient as I am. Coaches want players that can execute their system and from everything I have been reading, Goff was not the guy for McVay's system. I am sad because of that but am learning to live with it.

This statement was in the post you quoted,

"I give credit and blame to the coach for the playcall, and the players for how they execute.".

 

[OldSchool]

If there is one sad thing that this situation has shown me..... It is that there are "fans" on here that will without a doubt hope that our team fails just so they can puff out their internet chest. They may say differently, but with some..... Yeah, you can just tell.... And it's pathetic.

It’s very sad that people think because others disagree with a move the team made they’re somehow rooting against the Rams.

 

[Tano]

This statement was in the post you quoted,

"I give credit and blame to the coach for the playcall, and the players for how they execute.".

okay - but I was also adding that players do make bad plays from time to time but so do coaches making bad play calls from time time. As i said, maybe Goff did more than his fair share but I think he will get better. Usually QB's (not Mahomes) start showing if they become a star QB in year 6. This is year 6 - I really wanted to see if Goff would become a star QB. But oh well.

 

[jrry32]

Your're right. I read the playoff stats on nfl.com as just that, playoff games. I consider the SB the SB and not a playoff game. Anyway, my mistake, but still, 4 td's in 5 playoff games and 1 SB? That's only one td every 6 quarters which would be really really bad even for a team that didn't have the rams offense.

I guess if you only care about TDs when evaluating performance. Tom Brady, for example, threw a total of three TDs during his first five playoff games. TDs often come down to situational play-calling. For example, Stafford had five total TDs and five total TOs in his three playoff games, but his team has only averaged 18 PPG across those three games. Goff has four total TDs and two total TOs in his six playoff games, but his team has averaged 20 PPG across those six games. Does that mean Goff has been better than Stafford? No. They were playing in different situations. But reducing performance to one single stat is very flawed imo.