The Goff thread to end all Goff threads

[norcalramfan]

The Herd | Colin Cowherd reacts to "Toxic" final days of Jared Goff and Sean McVay relationship - YouTube

 

[Giles]

It's amazing how incredibly tone deaf some can be

I don't think there's a single person absolving Goff of his mistakes and short comings. Unlike McVay who can do no wrong to some people.

This 100%
I haven't seen a single post saying goff wasn't a part of the problem. The same cant be said about mcvay. The dude is blameless to some poster apparently.

 

[kurtfaulk]

The Herd | Colin Cowherd reacts to "Toxic" final days of Jared Goff and Sean McVay relationship - YouTube

those turnovers against the whiners look worse now than they did live. still don't know what goff was thinking during each play.

and i'm not sure cowherd watched any rams games last season. stafford is coming to a better oline? ha. let's see what he thinks when blythe ole's a rusher on 3rd and long and he gets to stafford inside a second.

.

 

[LA_Rams_#29]

Just caught this article today and WOW. It is exactly what many around here saw and speculated. Funny how many were so quick to jump on McVay and defend Goff. Not only could Goff not learn and pick things up quickly enough, but parts of his game still haven't developed after 5 years. The biggest one being able to read a defense quickly and decipher what he sees. It was so obvious when you watched thr All-22 film. McVay had to call a perfect play and scheme a "win" otherwise the play was dead. If a defense won up front, or played good coverage, there was zero room for error and Goff couldn't create any plays out of structure on his own.

Then it gets into how McVay was lighting up Goff on the sideline and in the locker room. That was a bit surprising but completely understandable given his play. And Goff being not the most naturally confident guy folded under the ridicule. That tells me he's not mentally strong enough.

Then it talks about how the team rallied around Wolford and wanted him to start. How they had their best practices with him under center WTF? I knew the team was pumped when he made plays late vs AZ but man the Goff / McVay relationship fell apart quickly and McVay really was fed up and had enough. Crazy stuff.

I agree that it was somewhat surprising to hear that McVay had gotten confrontational with Goff.... but I keep thinking back to how much support he was giving Goff in his ear through the play clock. I remember when I initially heard that McVay was talking to Goff until it cut off on every play..reading the defense for him basically...it kind of struck me that although I know it's common to talk to your young QBs more...but it just seemed like the level of support Goff was getting at that time was more than normal. I think that's what blew McVay's fuse because if Goff wasn't progressing in terms of being able to do it on his own, that's a pretty major problem.

I remember when Goff and Wentz were on that Gruden Camp show, and Gruden had them at the white board. I remember thinking that it seemed like Goff's acumen on the white board wasn't were it should be, and there was something about his attitude on the white board that I didn't like. (I honestly wanted us to draft Wentz after seeing that).

but I'm curious about Goff having some short comings on reading defenses from the beginning.....with McVay needing to basically do it for him, and that being the straw that broke this thing.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I agree that it was somewhat surprising to hear that McVay had gotten confrontational with Goff.... but I keep thinking back to how much support he was giving Goff in his ear through the play clock. I remember when I initially heard that McVay was talking to Goff until it cut off on every play..reading the defense for him basically...it kind of struck me that although I know it's common to talk to your young QBs more...but it just seemed like the level of support Goff was getting at that time was more than normal. I think that's what blew McVay's fuse because if Goff wasn't progressing in terms of being able to do it on his own, that's a pretty major problem.

I remember when Goff and Wentz were on that Gruden Camp show, and Gruden had them at the white board. I remember thinking that it seemed like Goff's acumen on the white board wasn't were it should be, and there was something about his attitude on the white board that I didn't like. (I honestly wanted us to draft Wentz after seeing that).

but I'm curious about Goff having some short comings on reading defenses from the beginning.....with McVay needing to basically do it for him, and that being the straw that broke this thing.

fuck me, i'm so sick about mcvay being in goffs ear. that was 2017.

in 2018 when fox were broadcasting rams games they would split the screen into 3 shots before a few plays. one of the timer, one of mcvay and one of goff. they kept it like that until the 15 sec mark. mcvay wasn't saying shit apart from calling the play. fox gave up in the end.

it's all bullshit. it's sickening that rams fans slurped it up.

.

 

[ReekofRams]

This Goff thread to end all Goff threads goes on and on my my friends. It’s a thread that will not end.

 

[Shuie3225]

I agree that it was somewhat surprising to hear that McVay had gotten confrontational with Goff.... but I keep thinking back to how much support he was giving Goff in his ear through the play clock. I remember when I initially heard that McVay was talking to Goff until it cut off on every play..reading the defense for him basically...it kind of struck me that although I know it's common to talk to your young QBs more...but it just seemed like the level of support Goff was getting at that time was more than normal. I think that's what blew McVay's fuse because if Goff wasn't progressing in terms of being able to do it on his own, that's a pretty major problem.

I remember when Goff and Wentz were on that Gruden Camp show, and Gruden had them at the white board. I remember thinking that it seemed like Goff's acumen on the white board wasn't were it should be, and there was something about his attitude on the white board that I didn't like. (I honestly wanted us to draft Wentz after seeing that).

but I'm curious about Goff having some short comings on reading defenses from the beginning.....with McVay needing to basically do it for him, and that being the straw that broke this thing.

Yea cant recall the Gruden camp stuff but I wanted to draft Goff. Remember Wentz came from a pro system in college where he was making all the audibles and protection calls from the line. Goff came from the Air Raid system where they would go spread, get to the line and literally turn and look to the sideline to get audibles or protection checks. Goff never did much stuff at the line on his own.

I figured years 1-2 Wentz would have an edge, but beyond year 3 I figured Goff's more natural arm talent would allow him to blow by Wentz once the other parts of his game developed. The problem is 5 years later and that part of his game never developed. The mental side.

And McVay said it since he got to LA, he's going to build his system around what his players do well. So with Goff coming off a disastrous rookie year, McVays first year as a HC in 2017 of course he's going to try and help Goff as much as possible. Feed him info through the headset, help with reading the defense, protection, etc. Why would he not? He had to assume that Goff would eventually start to learn these things himself and get better at them. I mean they had to work on these things in the film room and at practice every single day. So fast forward 4 years together and if Goff still couldn't do these things it had to be beyond frustrating for McVay.

 

[jrry32]

Oh, Mcvay has made plenty of mistakes but some of that is due to the QB he has to work with. If he doesn't trust him, he's going to make more bad/too conservative play calls. I'm not saying all of mcvay's mistakes are due to goff's short comings but if a coach feels they can't use their entire playbook and have to call a game around the QB's weaknesses, that's a problem, and I don't see that being a problem with Stafford.

Yeah, this sort of perspective is what genuinely bothers me. When McVay comes up short, it's because of Goff. But when the offense and team succeed, it's because of McVay. As I have said previously, McVay really had it made. He'd get all the credit with some for Goff's successes, while Goff would get all the blame for his failures. With Stafford here now, McVay has lost that immunity. The blame is going to fall on him. I hope he's right about Stafford being the solution to our problems.

 

[Shuie3225]

Yeah, this sort of perspective is what genuinely bothers me. When McVay comes up short, it's because of Goff. But when the offense and team succeed, it's because of McVay. As I have said previously, McVay really had it made. He'd get all the credit with some for Goff's successes, while Goff would get all the blame for his failures. With Stafford here now, McVay has lost that immunity. The blame is going to fall on him. I hope he's right about Stafford being the solution to our problems.

Sorry man. No one gave McVay credit for Goff shredding MIN. Or against KC. Or against NO in the NFCC game. Or the first half last year vs Tampa. Or the 2nd half last year vs Buffalo. Goff played great in all these situations and deserves the credit. But in year 5 when youre making rookie mistakes and turning the ball over more than anyone in the NFL, literally throwing passes for INTs when there is no one in the area - McVay cant be blamed for that shit. McVays system, the West Coast Shannahan/Gruden system is proven. Its won a lot of championships. Its produced a lot of MVPs at the QB position. What has Goff done without McVay? When you watch the film it tells the story, how McVay schemes people wide open, how easy the throws are. These aren't plays Goff is making on his own, he does make a big throw occasionally but 90% are schemed open. Just listen to what Richard Sherman said on the PFF podcast this week about Goff's ability vs Stafford's in a McVay offense.

 

[NJRamsFan]

This is kinda funny...you have to at least see the irony in those two things you just said. I don't agree or disagree with your assessment re: McVay v. Goff because I honestly don't care anymore, but you have to see the irony in starting a statement with no one gave McVay credit for x, y, and z and than finishing that statement with What has Goff done without McVay and that these arent plays Goff is making but rather the result of McVay.....at least be somewhat logically consistent.

Sorry man. No one gave McVay credit for Goff shredding MIN. Or against KC. Or against NO in the NFCC game. Or the first half last year vs Tampa. Or the 2nd half last year vs Buffalo.

What has Goff done without McVay? When you watch the film it tells the story, how McVay schemes people wide open, how easy the throws are. These aren't plays Goff is making on his own, he does make a big throw occasionally but 90% are schemed open.

 

[wolfdogg]

Yeah, this sort of perspective is what genuinely bothers me. When McVay comes up short, it's because of Goff. But when the offense and team succeed, it's because of McVay. As I have said previously, McVay really had it made. He'd get all the credit with some for Goff's successes, while Goff would get all the blame for his failures. With Stafford here now, McVay has lost that immunity. The blame is going to fall on him. I hope he's right about Stafford being the solution to our problems.

It's more like when goff came up short in the miami game, the 2 niners games, the jets game, oh, god the jets game. Mcvay had nothing to do with those horribly timed turnovers. which ultimately cost the rams those games. Of course any Qb and OC will share blame and kudos but there will always be less than a 50/50 ratio. I think we all know who shares most the blame in those losses. The rams offense will make significant improvements this year while detroit will be bottom 8. Book it. 42 td's and 39 turnovers the last 2 years, with the top defense in 2020. I don't see any reason to think those numbers will get better in detroit.

 

[FrantikRam]

It's amazing how incredibly tone deaf some can be

I don't think there's a single person absolving Goff of his mistakes and short comings. Unlike McVay who can do no wrong to some people.

....what?

This has gotten so convoluted.

There are posters who didn't like Goff from day one - but few are here anymore. Most are probably like me who were all in with Goff until late in 2018, then slowly the shine wore off until it all came to a head this year.

There are a lot more posters who liked Goff, and many of those posters DID in fact (constantly) absolve Goff of his mistakes over the last two years. The OL was awful in 2019, 2020 and at times the WRs aren't good enough - we heard this all season long for two years.

It's all just opinion - the thing that bothered me with Goff is just the turnovers. And I personally don't blame a supporting cast for a QB turning the ball over. Other people might. That's why this is a discussion - and to make things even more interesting, plays like Goff's INT against the Bucs on a screen pass, you get half the fanbase thinking it was Hendos fault and the other half Goff's. But we don't really know what the exact timing is, and we don't know what McVay had told Goff to do (if anything) when the timing is off.

Plenty of people all but denied Goff's short comings.

But the thing is - when McVay fails, there's no question about it. There's no debate. It's very simple: when we lose, he failed. When we win, he succeeded.

Because even if the players fail to execute, he chose to play them. And in Goff's case, he signed off on an extension that many thought was a bad decision at the time. McVay makes plenty of mistakes.

What you're referring to is that there's little discussion about it - but the reason there is simple - there is no debate to be had and no need for conversation. It's always his fault when we lose and always to his credit when we win because he's the HC and is directly responsible for wins and losses.

 

[FrantikRam]

This is kinda funny...you have to at least see the irony in those two things you just said. I don't agree or disagree with your assessment re: McVay v. Goff because I honestly don't care anymore, but you have to see the irony in starting a statement with no one gave McVay credit for x, y, and z and than finishing that statement with What has Goff done without McVay and that these arent plays Goff is making but rather the result of McVay.....at least be somewhat logically consistent.

There's a difference between "no one gave McVay credit" and him giving McVay credit. He's clearly talking about other people there.

 

[El Chapo Jr]

This Goff thread to end all Goff threads goes on and on my my friends. It’s a thread that will not end.

View: https://giphy.com/gifs/buzz-lightyear-12R2bKfxceemNq

 

[FrantikRam]

Yeah, this sort of perspective is what genuinely bothers me. When McVay comes up short, it's because of Goff. But when the offense and team succeed, it's because of McVay. As I have said previously, McVay really had it made. He'd get all the credit with some for Goff's successes, while Goff would get all the blame for his failures. With Stafford here now, McVay has lost that immunity. The blame is going to fall on him. I hope he's right about Stafford being the solution to our problems.

Credit from....? The media and random fans?

A HC is the easiest to evaluate in the NFL. They either win or lose. There's no debate. McVay gets the credit for the wins and losses. What's to debate? Every single time Goff made a mistake, it was McVays fault. Because he started Goff, wanted him signed. Every time I criticized Goff, there was a blanket unspoken critique of McVay in there. It's pointless to even say because it goes without saying.

 

[wolfdogg]

This 100%
I haven't seen a single post saying goff wasn't a part of the problem. The same cant be said about mcvay. The dude is blameless to some poster apparently.

I have seen more posts during games and in the vent thread regarding many of mcvay's playcalls than I can remeber, and I will reiterate right now that he has made some amazingly bad calls, as did wade, and staley, like not putting ramsey on debo as he ran wild in the 2nd game last year, however, mcvay has been a bigger factor overall in the rams success than goff and goff has been more responsible than mcvay for the failures. 42 td's and 39 giveaways the last 2 years is mostly on goff. Mcvay usually put jared in good spots to succeed and we will really appreciate mcvay's talent this year with stafford while goff will have a tough year. The lions added 2 good receivers, with potential, but their oline, defense, and coaching staff is significantly worse than the rams and I'll take akers over swift. If Jared can end the season in the top 20, I will be amazed and will be sure to give him props here.

 

[dieterbrock]

When you watch the film it tells the story, how McVay schemes people wide open, how easy the throws are. These aren't plays Goff is making on his own, he does make a big throw occasionally but 90% are schemed open.

If that's the case, then why replace Goff with a superior QB? Surely if the throws are there for the taking, they could have just stuck with Wolford, traded for Minshew or signed Andy Dalton. Why the need for a top 10 QB making 30+ mill per year?

 

[PARAM]

There are some head scratchers from McVay. One that had me totally pissed off was his playcalling and game management in the 2nd frisco game. We couldn't run all day. Not counting an 8 yard run by Woods in the first half and 4 scrambles by Goff for 10 yards, the 3 RBs had 32 yards on 17 carries with 0:32 left in the third. Then, with the score 17-13 SF, Akers breaks off a beautiful 61 yard run, a 6 yard run and a 1 yard run for the TD. 20-17 Rams. We exchange punts (but on our series Akers runs for 4, 0 and 6) and SF ties it on the ensuing possession. The Rams get the ball back with 3:11 and 3 timeouts but McVay calls 5 consecutive passes and we punt with 2:20 left. SF had 1 weapon....Deebo Samuels and we couldn't cover him.....3 receptions for 35 yards and so SF kicks the game winning FG. Shanahan calls 6 runs of the 11 plays (because he had 3 timeouts too). McVay calls zero runs despite Akers running for 61, 6, 1*, 4, 0 and 6 yards his last 6 carries (78 yards on 6 = 13 ypc or if you prefer, forget the 61 yarder and the 1 yard TD run it's 4 carries for 16 yards...4.0 per). Mind-numbing shit right there, especially with 3 timeouts, only needing a FG and the entire field to work with. Shanahan showed how that is done.

 

[jrry32]

It's more like when goff came up short in the miami game, the 2 niners games, the jets game, oh, god the jets game. Mcvay had nothing to do with those horribly timed turnovers. which ultimately cost the rams those games. Of course any Qb and OC will share blame and kudos but there will always be less than a 50/50 ratio. I think we all know who shares most the blame in those losses. The rams offense will make significant improvements this year while detroit will be bottom 8. Book it. 42 td's and 39 turnovers the last 2 years, with the top defense in 2020. I don't see any reason to think those numbers will get better in detroit.

Goff turned it over one time in the Jets game. We lost to a team that had zero wins at that time (0-13). And you have found a way to put the blame on the QB and not on the HC. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[jrry32]

42 td's and 39 giveaways the last 2 years is mostly on goff.

Actually, Goff's lack of TDs over the past two years is mostly on McVay's situational play-calling.