The Goff-season Thread

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FrantikRam

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Reading between the lines of all this, I think Goff will be a Ram next year. In fact, the only QB I think we would acquire would be Watson.

And I think McVay and Snead are on the same page, trying to light a fire under Goff.

Making him earn his starting job is probably the best thing they could do for him and his career.
 

thirteen28

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Which is exactly my issue with eyeballing things. We see what we want.

Believe me, I did NOT see what I wanted from the OL this year. If I saw an OL that was routinely playing at a high level and had no glaring weak links like Blythe, it's much more likely that I'd be on the other side of this argument.
 

Merlin

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Please explain Blythe. Struggled late in 2018, and throughout most of 2019 and 2020. How did he last so long?
I attribute him returning to a strong finish and the Rams being wrapped around the axle getting out from under Gurley's and Cooks' contracts.
 

Ram_Rally

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It's not. That's what I keep explaining. Our heavy usage of play action and boot action inflates that particular stat. We can both agree that our 2019 OL was not good, yes? Even PFF ranked it as one of the NFL's worst. Do you know what Goff's pocket time was in 2019 according to Pro Football Reference? 2.6 seconds. That was second most in the NFL behind Kirk Cousins. Our long-developing play-action passes accomplish what Russell Wilson's scrambling does. They inflate that number without actually shedding light on how good our protection was.

I'm not using play action to condemn the OL. I'm saying that number is not indicative of Goff's actual time to throw in our traditional dropback game (i.e., without play action) and is a poor indicator of how good his protection is.



I disagree. Goff got the ball out very quickly this year in our traditional dropback game.
Okay I gotcha now. I got crossed between two discussions.
 

Merlin

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And brian Allen’s performance / injuries
Yeah it was just too much to fix. They undoubtedly knew it too but you gotta roll the dice somewhere every season.

Point is guys who disappoint get moved. Standards are high. None of us have to like it but we're gonna have to deal.
 

FrantikRam

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Believe me, I did NOT see what I wanted from the OL this year. If I saw an OL that was routinely playing at a high level and had no glaring weak links like Blythe, it's much more likely that I'd be on the other side of this argument.


Unfortunately, fans all over the internet tend to attach themselves to a player or coach and make excuses for them.

That's what he meant by people will see what they want to see. When people want something to be or something to happen, they'll ignore logic in the pursuit of what they want.

People should take what @jrry32 has been saying about the OL and Goff to heart.
 

Ram_Rally

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Right but you asked me what McVay did to cover for his line and why pff not be able to calculate it. Which is what I answered. The conversation you are having with Jrry is much more indicative of why the 2.5 number is inflated
Okay sorry. Replying to multiple people got me mixed up. Forgot we were discussing pff. But yeah, they may not have a way of calculating rollouts but that's just the nature of numbers and research. Some things get missed. I still can't fathom that pff would grade and discuss the Rams line as much improved if they really only succeeded because of short passes and rollouts. They don't even mention that in their analysis. They're watching the same tape we are. I feel like they would mention that in their rankings if it was THAT much of an influence. And that's where analysis meets eyeball. There's no way we view our line as poor and dependent on scheme but pff blindly missed it for the sake of just the numbers. Like I was saying with Ramsey. Even if they grade him lower, they present the context.
 

MachS

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Reading between the lines of all this, I think Goff will be a Ram next year. In fact, the only QB I think we would acquire would be Watson.

And I think McVay and Snead are on the same page, trying to light a fire under Goff.

Making him earn his starting job is probably the best thing they could do for him and his career.

After all the reports today about an open QB competition, it seems like McSnead are hedging their bets. To me it doesn't make sense to trade for Stafford or a similar QB. If we can get Watson, Rodgers, or move up into the 1st round and take a rookie QB then I'm okay with moving on from Goff. But if the plan is Wolford or someone like that then Goff is obviously the better call. It's just hard to imagine Goff not coming out of this with less respect for McVay and the organization. Not to mention Ramsey openly campaigning for Watson on social media, so there is obviously a part of the locker room and star players that wants to move on from Goff too.

But to me the bigger point here is about potentially lighting a fire under Goff, and something I've been adamant about for years now is I dont think Goff is an elite competitor. What 1st pick of the draft, franchise QB, $35M per year player, needs their franchise to publicly light a fire for them to improve his game? What told me more than anything was the 2019 season after the Super Bowl loss. To me an elite competitor would have come back after the worst game of his life, where he could have single handedly won the Super Bowl and followed that up with a comeback season for the ages. Worked all off-season, done whatever was possible to improve his game. Instead Goff came out and had a bad 2019. Then followed that up with a bad 2020. I dont have a source here but I remember hearing from a Ram's report that Goff was a 9a-5pm type pro. How many times have we heard about Goff going in super early morning to watch film? Or being at the facility until 10pm preparing for a game? I haven't heard that once in his entire career. You know who I have heard that about? Aaron Donald. That he lives in the film room. Chris Long said in Donald's rookie year Long had to kick him out of the film room because he was literally hogging it from the vets.

If this is indeed some ploy to get Goff to work harder, I think its a bit disrespectful tbh especially if you keep him on the roster after this off-season. But the bigger thing to me is the actual NEED to do this. Star players should have their own internal drive to improve and be great, and I think that is what drives McVay crazy the most.
 

spamlord

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Use whatever you like. But I'm going to tell you that I use my eyeballs. Because I watch this team every single week. And I often watch our games more than once. If you watched our team all season long and didn't see the flaws in our OL, okay, that's your opinion. But if you did and are forsaking what you saw for PFF or somebody else's stats, I don't know what to say. What I will say is throwing stats at me isn't going to change my opinion.
I don’t understand relying on these metric stat companies to evaluate a player. Why even watch football if you’re just going to let some strangers tell you what you just saw? Damn straight you use your own eyeballs.
 

cvramsfan

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Well I could go on and on about how, as a science major, I hate when people refute a stat with "idk but it won't change my mind. I just trust my eyeballs.".

I respect what you do. And your knowledge. Absolutely no doubt about that. But PFF is employed by every nfl team and college program. Their not some teenagers in a basement making things up. Simply dismissing their metrics because of your eyeballs is a fatal flaw. But I'm totally inclined to leave well enough alone. And again, I know you know your stuff. I'm just highly against the eyeball analysis.
I am not sure how PFF works but would think that is people watching the games and grading what they see. So wouldn't that make PFF an "trust my eyeballs" ratings?
 

kurtfaulk

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I am not sure how PFF works but would think that is people watching the games and grading what they see. So wouldn't that make PFF an "trust my eyeballs" ratings?

Are their eyeballs better than ours? All i saw every 3rd down was a jail break to the qb.

.
 

jrry32

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I attribute him returning to a strong finish and the Rams being wrapped around the axle getting out from under Gurley's and Cooks' contracts.

Don't forget COVID taking away the preseason and parts of the offseason program. I don't know if Blythe would have started for us this year had things progressed normally. Maybe he would have. But had Evans gotten the opportunity to impress with his run blocking, I could see a world where we move Corbett to Center and play Evans at OG. But with Blythe knowing the system so well and the continuity from last year along with significantly reduced opportunities to evaluate our backups, it makes sense to me that they'd go with Blythe. Unfortunately, there are games where he just can't overcome his weaknesses because of who is against him. And DCs exploit that.
 

cvramsfan

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Are their eyeballs better than ours? All i saw every 3rd down was a jail break to the qb.

.
No my point was that @jrry32 says he trust his eyeballs and he was questioned that PFF was better than his eyeballs, because it was science based (at least that is how I took it). My point is I hedge my bet on @jrry32 eyeballs over PFF eyeballs.
 
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Ram_Rally

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I am not sure how PFF works but would think that is people watching the games and grading what they see. So wouldn't that make PFF an "trust my eyeballs" ratings?
Nah they're using numbers too. They have certain check boxes etc.
 

Ram_Rally

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Still using their eyeballs to be able to chk that box or not. All I am saying is it is subjective, hence 79 pages here, lol
yeah. We had a whole conversation about marrying the two above lol. But using a measuring cup to put the right amount of milk into a recipe isn't the same as "I'll just watch it with my eyes" lol
 

jrry32

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Unfortunately, fans all over the internet tend to attach themselves to a player or coach and make excuses for them.

That's what he meant by people will see what they want to see. When people want something to be or something to happen, they'll ignore logic in the pursuit of what they want.

People should take what @jrry32 has been saying about the OL and Goff to heart.

I think it's reasonable to recognize that our OL wasn't bad and that Goff needs to be better. Where I differ from many is in his my belief that volatility is a reality of life with a young pocket passer. So I don't see a broken QB in Goff. I see a guy who can continue to grow and move past most of his issues. Interior pressure will always be a problem for him, so we need to work hard to solve that. The rest of the issues this year are fixable.

My thought watching him as the year progressed was that he presses when he doesn't feel the offense is performing. And when he presses, he makes decisions he knows better than to make. It seemed that sitting his ass on the bench in Week 17 (even if the injury was the reason) caused him to play smarter in the playoffs, but he was still playing too conservatively at times. He needs to find the middle ground between hero ball and calculated risks.

I don't think Jared is broken. I think the OL issues along with defensive adjustments that him and McVay didn't handle well for too much of the season were the culprit for his play in 2019. In 2020, I think we took a calculated (and smart) risk with the Cooks trade, but we overestimated what Everett and Reynolds could provide (credit to @Merlin for articulating that well). Without a big-play threat he trusted, Jared and the offense were reduced to a less explosive unit, and unfortunately, the issue I noted above manifested itself.

What can we do? Upgrade on Blythe and bring in a deep threat this offseason. I don't think we need a three-down player as a deep threat, but it would be nice to have a guy to rotate in who can take the top off a defense. I believe that Whit (if he plays like he did this year) and Hav are a top 5, if not top 3, OT duo in the NFL. I'm much higher on Hav than most. I think Corbett and Edwards are both above average to good starters. If we can get a guy in there next to them who doesn't have games where he just dominated, I think that'll go a long way towards solving our problems. If the interior OL holds up, I expect Goff will do well. Plus, Cam Akers emerged big time late in the year. If we have a top HB to pair with Goff again, I expect we'll see a lot of our offensive problems dissipate.

What can Goff do? He needs to work on his game. Keep improving the mechanics. Watch tons of film to reduce the chances that he's fooled by coverages or pressure packages. Prepare himself mentally for next season. And be ready to come out smart but aggressive. Nobody doubts Jared's ability to throw the football. People are just too quick to jump on the mental game of young QBs. I think Goff will get there. Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. weren't always the guys we know now. They got there through hard work, experience, and playing a lot of football.