The Goff-season Thread

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Merlin

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Man at this rate we'll get the #questfor100round2 before the Super Bowl.

Could we...dare I say...have a #questfor200 ????
I'm betting the thread for the new QB room has a better chance to hit 200. :ROFLMAO:


View: https://twitter.com/mikesilver/status/1354518798875971590?s=21


Wow some eye opening comments here from Silver. He’s connected to Goff so when he’s says that none of this has/had been communicated by the FO directly to Goff and that Goff is mystified by the latest comments you can bet it’s the truth. Not what I want to hear honestly makes us look bad. All of this is really confusing to me. I think the rams have bungled this so far. Will be interesting to see how they play it from here.

Rams are trying to trade him without destroying his value. It's gonna be a tough thing to pull off no matter how you approach it. There is no handling this situation well.

What matters is how they stack it moving forward. And this might be a two year deal if they can't get the QB room settled this offseason. They may just add C and a receiving threat and be a ball control offense this year in fact that is what I expect.
 

Mojo Ram

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I’ve watched this clip and see a lot of talking heads discuss this Goff story. This is where I have a big problem with how the Rams are handling this situation. Goff is getting *clowned* by a lot of these talking heads, and for as much as Goff’s inconsistent play opened this up, McVay and now Snead’s comments are really fanning the flames. People are having a field day with the “he’s a Ram right now. What day is it... January 26?” Line and mocking Goff throughout the media. It really shows that the FO doesn’t care how Goff feels.

Again, I have no problem if the Rams decided they need to move on. But don’t open up your QB to get clowned this way throughout the media, especially since it hurts your leverage for trade negotiations.
Well idk. We're talking about reputation right? Goff has been getting unfairly clowned by the media and "other" fans since club Fisher's hard knocks, and it went to Defcon 1 after Goff's first seven starts. Enter McVay. It dropped to Defcon 3 and with the exception of a blip of sexy games midway thru '18 it's been sitting there at Defcon 2 ever since. IMO the criticism this season has been valid.

I realize this wasn't really your point, but i had to comment on this weird idea that Goff started at ground zero, ascended to stardom and slowly fell back down the ladder. Goff has NEVER been respected by the media or armchair fans outside of Ramdom.

Personally i think McVay is uber frustrated with Goff's mistakes, and so am i as a fan. I agree with @Mackeyser that these front office comments are simply to signal that the Rams are open to dealing Goff....and if they can't the position will be open for competition in camp.

Either way and whoever it is, the QB play needs to get better and more consistent immediately.
 

VegasRam

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Couple of thoughts after reading your post.
1). Could this open discussion be a ploy by the FO to get an easy restructure from Goff. These aren’t the Druid’s you’re looking for or the contract we believe you now deserve? (Ceremonial hand gesture)
3). Lastly, is this a way for the Rams to open the communication channels with other teams that see Goff as the Rams soon to be ex wife with plenty of Offer their team?
Just thinking out loud.
I think this is a real possibility. Look, if the Rams wanted to dump Goff, but know they really can't given the money situation, what do they do? They quietly let it be known around the league that he might be available, to see if there is any interest.
This ALWAYS gets out, so Goff finds out anyway and reacts however he's going to react.

So instead, they throw him under the bus - now everybody knows he's available, and they will see what they can get, (which btw imo, is at least 2 firsts to start). Now he's justifiably pissed, feels dissed and blah, blah, blah. Tough shit, McSnead have legit bitches, know that without a miracle they are tied to Goff for at least one more year, so are telling him publicly, "show us we're wrong".

Worst case they find out there's no interest and have to live with a pissed off JG - so what. He either sucks it up, proves them wrong, or he doesn't, and Wolford ends up playing. nobody cares about his ($35M/Year) feelings.

We are not in any different a place than if nothing was said by anyone, except that we now have an accurate gauge of JG's worth in the eyes of the rest of the league. Either way, barring a huge turnaround on his part, he's gone after 2021.

Reread this and not real sure what my point is....:woozy:, but it's all going to turn out great.
 

ottoman89

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Well idk. We're talking about reputation right? Goff has been getting unfairly clowned by the media and "other" fans since club Fisher's hard knocks, and it went to Defcon 1 after Goff's first seven starts. Enter McVay. It dropped to Defcon 3 and with the exception of a blip of sexy games midway thru '18 it's been sitting there at Defcon 2 ever since. IMO the criticism this season has been valid.

I realize this wasn't really your point, but i had to comment on this weird idea that Goff started at ground zero, ascended to stardom and slowly fell back down the ladder. Goff has NEVER been respected by the media or armchair fans outside of Ramdom.

Personally i think McVay is uber frustrated with Goff's mistakes, and so am i as a fan. I agree with @Mackeyser that these front office comments are simply to signal that the Rams are open to dealing Goff....and if they can't the position will be open for competition in camp.

Either way and whoever it is, the QB play needs to get better and more consistent immediately.
I feel like all McVay is asking for is manage the game, make your easy throws and don't turn it over. Seems like such an easy task. Goff has all the arm talent in the world, but it's mental at this point
 

Mojo Ram

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I feel like all McVay is asking for is manage the game, make your easy throws and don't turn it over. Seems like such an easy task. Goff has all the arm talent in the world, but it's mental at this point
I disagree. I think he wants Goff to make plays. Throw more TD's and less stupifying INT's. Or maybe McV wants one of these QB's who can make a play when it all breaks down. One of these "cover-my-ass-as-a-playcaller" types we're seeing so much of these days. Lol. Idk man.
 

Tano

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I feel like all McVay is asking for is manage the game, make your easy throws and don't turn it over. Seems like such an easy task. Goff has all the arm talent in the world, but it's mental at this point
I have never denied it is mental on Goff's side. But I think he can overcome it.

I want to see what next year brings.

Hopefully he gets pissed, works his butt off, and shows everyone that they were wrong in doubting him.
 

ottoman89

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I disagree. I think he wants Goff to make plays. Throw more TD's and less stupifying INT's. Or maybe McV wants one of these QB's who can make a play when it all breaks down. One of these "cover-my-ass-as-a-playcaller" types we're seeing so much of these days. Lol. Idk man.
Perhaps if Goff made less of these stupifying INTs or could be sacked without fumbling he could throw more TDs.

I have never denied it is mental on Goff's side. But I think he can overcome it.

I want to see what next year brings.

Hopefully he gets pissed, works his butt off, and shows everyone that they were wrong in doubting him.
If he's the Rams QB next year, I personally and hope everyone else hopes this happens.
 

jrry32

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Well that's because you can literally subtract two AWFUL Goff games and the Rams would have been 12-4. And I'm just talking about two games that he very clearly and objectively sank the team. I also struggle seeing all of the issues that weren't just QB play. Their offensive line allowed him 2.5 seconds averaged in the pocket, tied for 10th in the NFL. So he had protection. We lacked an explosive deep threat but that's not really an excuse for our offense being so putried. I've evolved from irrational Goff lover (I fought with a chiefs fan about how Goff was better than Mahomes in 2018 lol) to being a Goff doubter. What was it about our offense do you feel hampered him? Because , outside of a few things like a deep threat, it felt like he just didn't have it.

Pet peeve: People need to stop quoting that stat as if it means anything. We saw Russell Wilson's "protection," and according to that stat, he had an average of 2.6 seconds, more than Goff.
 

Merlin

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I disagree. I think he wants Goff to make plays. Throw more TD's and less stupifying INT's. Or maybe McV wants one of these QB's who can make a play when it all breaks down. One of these "cover-my-ass-as-a-playcaller" types we're seeing so much of these days. Lol. Idk man.
I used to laugh at takes where people would say things like "McVay didn't draft his guy" in discussing Goff. Because I felt like he was all in with him and in particular I felt Goff's accuracy was a great fit for his offense. But a couple years of poor play at this level changes the storyline across the board.

My perception changed when I watched that Miami tape. Guess you could say that was an eye opener for me.

Now as I watch all this unfold I feel like McVay's prioritization for his QB might not be accuracy as #1. I think in this offense his QB has to be wired to make quick reads and good decisions and if that's not there McVay is not going to accept it. What he wants is a point guard dealing that ball with speed and misdirection like Magic Johnson IMO.
 

Bearrister

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Well idk. We're talking about reputation right? Goff has been getting unfairly clowned by the media and "other" fans since club Fisher's hard knocks, and it went to Defcon 1 after Goff's first seven starts. Enter McVay. It dropped to Defcon 3 and with the exception of a blip of sexy games midway thru '18 it's been sitting there at Defcon 2 ever since. IMO the criticism this season has been valid.

I realize this wasn't really your point, but i had to comment on this weird idea that Goff started at ground zero, ascended to stardom and slowly fell back down the ladder. Goff has NEVER been respected by the media or armchair fans outside of Ramdom.

Personally i think McVay is uber frustrated with Goff's mistakes, and so am i as a fan. I agree with @Mackeyser that these front office comments are simply to signal that the Rams are open to dealing Goff....and if they can't the position will be open for competition in camp.

Either way and whoever it is, the QB play needs to get better and more consistent immediately.

I don’t disagree that many in the media have always doubted or clowned Goff, even when he was at his best (I listen to LA sports radio and hear it all the time). But it’s different when your own FO fans the flames knowing that it’s going to cause this frenzy.

As some of the more reasonable talking media heads have pointed out, it’s incredibly rare to see a GM insult their QB publicly (again, the smart-ass “January 26” comment).

Again, I have no problems if they’ve decided to move on from Goff. Everyone knows, despite whatever personnel issues there may be otherwise, Goff needs to play better and stop turning the ball over. I don’t dispute that Goff hasn’t lived up to his extension yet. But if this is how they’re going to treat him (putting this all in the media and not conveying this directly to him per Mike Silver) that’s not a good look for the FO.
 

FrantikRam

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And you would have almost certainly ended up disappointed. Brees and Ben both had top defenses and offensive talent every bit on par with us. Rodgers's team looked every bit as good as ours when we played them. Watson's 2018 Texans had a very good defense, but he put up a stinker against Indy in the playoffs. When Wilson won his Super Bowl with the LOB, he did less before the Super Bowl than Goff did in the playoffs with our defense this year.

Simply put, it's very hard to win a Super Bowl. You have unrealistic expectations if you thought this was a Super Bowl or bust year. I'm sure you'll argue that if we had a better QB, we wouldn't have had all those injuries against Seattle. But injuries are random to some degree. They can happen at any time. In order for your alternate reality to even potentially work, you have to pretend that the major injuries we suffered this year at the worst possible time just don't happen. And that's the flaw in your perspective imo.


Understandable - and the playoff game against Green Bay colors this - but factoring in coaching and every player on the team, take away QB and I don't think there was a better team than us.

Obviously AD getting hurt was huge and paints a different picture, but I don't think there's a team better than us last year if you don't factor the QB position over the course of the full season.
 

thirteen28

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Their offensive line allowed him 2.5 seconds averaged in the pocket, tied for 10th in the NFL. So he had protection.

You and others keep banging the table with that and the ludicrous PFF stats, etc., while ignoring all the things McVay had to do to cover up our OL deficiencies, such as the frequent rollouts, his frequent surrenders on 3rd and long by calling WR screens which had no chance of a sack but also had no chance of getting a first down, etc. That number is skewed by those things, and doesn't tell anywhere near the full picture.

And you ignore the obvious, like our inability to convert multiple 3rd and shorts/goal on the ground which were further indications of our OL deficiencies. You also ignore our weakness at C and how Blythe frequently whiffed on blocks, denying Goff the time to throw, getting him sacked, and over the season, denying him confidence that he could sit in the pocket and survey the field on longer patterns. Goff made his share of unforced errors, but there were also several where he turned the ball over due to being hit on plays where he never had a chance, and that that is on the people that who are supposed to protect him.

In short, you act as if Goff is working with nearly the same situation as he did in 2018, minus the deep threat which you acknowledge wasn't there (and which I don't think is nearly as big an issue as the OL). Moreover, you don't acknowledge McVay's own shortcomings in playcalling, declining creativity, and predictability, all of which hurt our offense, including the play of the QB.

To pretend our OL consistently provided him adequate protection and that the McVay was still as innovative and creative in his schemes and playcalling as he was his first two years is just simply not the case, and all the PFF stuff and "average time to throw" stats won't change that. We know what we saw and we know our OL play was not up to par this year, and neither was the coaching of the offense. Yet Goff seems to be the only one held responsible for his shortcomings by some of you, the others getting a complete pass on theirs.
 

jrry32

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Understandable - and the playoff game against Green Bay colors this - but factoring in coaching and every player on the team, take away QB and I don't think there was a better team than us.

Obviously AD getting hurt was huge and paints a different picture, but I don't think there's a team better than us last year if you don't factor the QB position over the course of the full season.

I think there's certainly an argument. Issue is that you can make the same argument for Green Bay, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, and Pittsburgh. Ultimately, we got fucked by injuries at the worst possible time. And that didn't give us a chance against Green Bay. Those sorts of things are random. So when we're taking Goff off the team and inventing a hypothetical scenario where the elite QB isn't fucked over by injuries, I get a little frustrated. Jared isn't the person who injured AD, Edwards, or Kupp. It was just pure chance and shit luck. It could have happened in a different scenario too.
 

majrleaged

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Well that's because you can literally subtract two AWFUL Goff games and the Rams would have been 12-4. And I'm just talking about two games that he very clearly and objectively sank the team. I also struggle seeing all of the issues that weren't just QB play. Their offensive line allowed him 2.5 seconds averaged in the pocket, tied for 10th in the NFL. So he had protection. We lacked an explosive deep threat but that's not really an excuse for our offense being so putried. I've evolved from irrational Goff lover (I fought with a chiefs fan about how Goff was better than Mahomes in 2018 lol) to being a Goff doubter. What was it about our offense do you feel hampered him? Because , outside of a few things like a deep threat, it felt like he just didn't have it.
Didnt look like 2.5 seconds against the packers. How about against the dolphins. How bout the 1st 9er game.
Never said football wasn't a team sport. People cant say "Elite quarterbacks are suppose to elevate the talent around them" and then when they turn in a season like 4-12 then make countless excuses as to why they finished with that record.
Even the best QB can't fix everything. Plus their d is terrible. As I said before. Wins are what you judge a team by. Not player. Watson has huge play maker ability. I think as good as mahomes. Swap teams and you would have very similar win loss on each team as they do now. Talent works both ways. The talent around mahomes makes mahomes. He has more help than any other QB. Its kind of the chicken or the egg. Oh and never for get coaching. No qb can over come coaching
 

Ram_Rally

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Pet peeve: People need to stop quoting that stat as if it means anything. We saw Russell Wilson's "protection," and according to that stat, he had an average of 2.6 seconds, more than Goff.
And from what I read his protection was much improved. Pff said our line was good based on their metrics too. So what is it then? What stat should we use? Please don't tell me our eyeballs.
 

Ram_Rally

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Didnt look like 2.5 seconds against the packers. How about against the dolphins. How bout the 1st 9er game.

Even the best QB can't fix everything. Plus their d is terrible. As I said before. Wins are what you judge a team by. Not player. Watson has huge play maker ability. I think as good as mahomes. Swap teams and you would have very similar win loss on each team as they do now. Talent works both ways. The talent around mahomes makes mahomes. He has more help than any other QB. Its kind of the chicken or the egg. Oh and never for get coaching. No qb can over come coaching
So you're basically picking 3 games that could very well be outliers and trying to make a point with them. Very bad process.
 

jrry32

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I used to laugh at takes where people would say things like "McVay didn't draft his guy" in discussing Goff. Because I felt like he was all in with him and in particular I felt Goff's accuracy was a great fit for his offense. But a couple years of poor play at this level changes the storyline across the board.

My perception changed when I watched that Miami tape. Guess you could say that was an eye opener for me.

Now as I watch all this unfold I feel like McVay's prioritization for his QB might not be accuracy as #1. I think in this offense his QB has to be wired to make quick reads and good decisions and if that's not there McVay is not going to accept it. What he wants is a point guard dealing that ball with speed and misdirection like Magic Johnson IMO.

I hope he doesn't have the worst of Gruden in him. By that I mean, Gruden used to hate young QBs because they would make young QB mistakes. They'd get fooled by coverage, miss blitzes, and force throws they shouldn't. So he'd always prefer to rely on older vets rather than develop young QBs. He'd make halfhearted efforts to play young QBs and then yank them for some older guy who was equal parts has-been and never-was. I think that lack of player development is part of why Tampa fired him.

Why am I saying this? The sort of things you're talking about are mistakes characteristic of young pocket passers. You give them time to mature mentally and they usually grow out of it. But it takes time and patience. It seems like McVay is getting impatient. I just hope he doesn't make a bad move based on that impatience.
 

jrry32

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And from what I read his protection was much improved. Pff said our line was good based on their metrics too. So what is it then? What stat should we use? Please don't tell me our eyeballs.

Use whatever you like. But I'm going to tell you that I use my eyeballs. Because I watch this team every single week. And I often watch our games more than once. If you watched our team all season long and didn't see the flaws in our OL, okay, that's your opinion. But if you did and are forsaking what you saw for PFF or somebody else's stats, I don't know what to say. What I will say is throwing stats at me isn't going to change my opinion.
 

Ram_Rally

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You and others keep banging the table with that and the ludicrous PFF stats, etc., while ignoring all the things McVay had to do to cover up our OL deficiencies, such as the frequent rollouts, his frequent surrenders on 3rd and long by calling WR screens which had no chance of a sack but also had no chance of getting a first down, etc. That number is skewed by those things, and doesn't tell anywhere near the full picture.

And you ignore the obvious, like our inability to convert multiple 3rd and shorts/goal on the ground which were further indications of our OL deficiencies. You also ignore our weakness at C and how Blythe frequently whiffed on blocks, denying Goff the time to throw, getting him sacked, and over the season, denying him confidence that he could sit in the pocket and survey the field on longer patterns. Goff made his share of unforced errors, but there were also several where he turned the ball over due to being hit on plays where he never had a chance, and that that is on the people that who are supposed to protect him.

In short, you act as if Goff is working with nearly the same situation as he did in 2018, minus the deep threat which you acknowledge wasn't there (and which I don't think is nearly as big an issue as the OL). Moreover, you don't acknowledge McVay's own shortcomings in playcalling, declining creativity, and predictability, all of which hurt our offense, including the play of the QB.

To pretend our OL consistently provided him adequate protection and that the McVay was still as innovative and creative in his schemes and playcalling as he was his first two years is just simply not the case, and all the PFF stuff and "average time to throw" stats won't change that. We know what we saw and we know our OL play was not up to par this year, and neither was the coaching of the offense. Yet Goff seems to be the only one held responsible for his shortcomings by some of you, the others getting a complete pass on theirs.
It wasn't a pff stat. It was a dvoa. See that's the the thing. All of these different analytics are saying they were good and yet y'all keep saying it wasn't. Based on what? What are you seeing that all these different organizations don't?

And as for the 2018 line. That might be the best in Rams history. Please don't tell me that Goff needs a once in a lifetime line to succeed.
 

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Didnt look like 2.5 seconds against the packers. How about against the dolphins. How bout the 1st 9er game.

Even the best QB can't fix everything. Plus their d is terrible. As I said before. Wins are what you judge a team by. Not player. Watson has huge play maker ability. I think as good as mahomes. Swap teams and you would have very similar win loss on each team as they do now. Talent works both ways. The talent around mahomes makes mahomes. He has more help than any other QB. Its kind of the chicken or the egg. Oh and never for get coaching. No qb can over come coaching
Quarterbacks in similar situations did better than 4-12...I cant remember any "elite quarterback" ever having a record like that and started all 16 games. As I said before you cant say "Elite quarterbacks are suppose to elevate the talent around them" and then excuse going 4-12 . That doesn't add up. I'm not saying you said those things but posters here have. It's not like the Texans were the 0-16 dolphins and Watson managed to get 4 wins for a team with zero talent.