The Goff-season Thread

[jrry32]

I agree with all of this.

That said, I think we can agree that SOMETHING's gonna happen.

Anyone who's set up dominoes knows that they don't always fall or fall as you set them up, but we'll see.

I'm a pattern guy. I really think that something is up. The fact that Mike Silver is being coy means he likely knows. We've seen enough of his reporting that when he doesn't know, he tends to say so, but when he knows, he gets cute about the subject. It's a tell of his I've noticed.

I just hope to god that Stafford isn't their answer. If you're going to make a move, do it for a guy who moves the needle.

 

[thirteen28]

Here is my guess how it went down. I think the blame Goff was getting from Mcvay and Oconnell in his ear after somewhere around the Seattle game ghost interception intensified. This is the same week he broke his thumb. My guess is Jared got tired of being the scape goat for the shitty Oline and play calls that were clearly getting predictable.

I honestly believe Jared got tired of the BS blame game and bowed up to Mcvay. When Mcvay told Jared that Wolford would be starting we know for a fact via Jareds statement at the press conference that he disagreed with Mcvay and wanted to start. There was probably a huge loss of trust in Mcvay for not backing Jared and I am sure Jared let him know. I would. I would say I disagree with starting Wolford but you are the coach and I accept whatever you say and wont complain to the media. But I bet at this exact time Jared finally let Mcvay know how much BS it was to blame him for the terrible decision not to upgrade the Oline and the play calls that were getting snuffed out due to Mcvay not innovating.

I am be wrong but it looks to me like the Goff Mcvay marriage died that day.

Mcvay then went to Snead and said we are moving on. They kept it private but are on the same page with their messaging to the media.

Mcvay was too stubborn to admit he was part of the problem with the play calls and Oline decisions.

Goff was tired of the blame and let Mcvay know the reality.

As you said, it's a guess, but it seems like a reasonable guess. If I was in Jared's shoes, I'd be tired of it as well, especially when the team put most of its resources the previous two offseasons into building the defense. Meanwhile, there have been few if any new wrinkles or innovations with the offense but a lot of subtraction of things that we had previously done successfully. There was virtually no effort to upgrade the OL after what happened last season, which is more than baffling. And the biggest changes schematically to the offense is not to add new innovations but to do things to try to cover up for the weakness of the OL, which is an acknowledgment that it's not good enough. McVay talks a good game with the whole "I've got to do better" talk, but his actions the past two seasons don't square with that. And now it looks like he just wants to scapegoat the QB, which tells me the problem is going to continue.

 

[Mackeyser]

No proof aside the way things have played out and the lack of commitment in words. This is beyond lighting a fire undrr Goff, Mac. And none of know anything, which includes both of us. There is a hardness in McVay's face when he speaks of the sitaution, that I never saw in him before., which makes him look bitter and old. The words plus that look informs my gut belief that Goff is gone.

I think he's gone, too. Totally agree about McVay.

My point was that there is all this extra stuff about how Goff feels or Goff losing faith in McVay and I'm lost there b/c there's been zero information about that.

It's already a stretch when we extrapolate based on what we know or what we can surmise from years of experience.

All of us are terrible mind readers. Some blanks we'll never be able to fill in.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Deshaun Watson posted a picture on IG this week of him walking in a nice suit..and Jalen Ramsey commented "looks like a LA man tbh."

If that's true; and the wedge starts to come from teammates... Oh boy. Game over.

I'm with others; very puzzled by the Rams public stance on this. Not sure what their goal is, but every scenario I can think of... the public statements seem to work against helping to increase Goff's value. And.... if it's motivation they're after, it is sort of the equivalent of shoving a dogs face in his shit to teach him to crap outside.

Goff has been our leader for 5 seasons. I hope Goff is okay with it, and we are misreading stuff here, because I'm not sure this is how I would handle one of my key guys that I've relied upon for the last 5 years.

The amount of garbage on sports sites because of these Ram's quotes, is a bad look, IMO.

 

[thirteen28]

I just hope to god that Stafford isn't their answer. If you're going to make a move, do it for a guy who moves the needle.

It just blows my mind that there are people that think a guy like Stafford, who brings little if anything the table that Goff can, but brings a lot of career losing and a lot of injury history, would somehow move the needle. I can see why people think Watson would be an upgrade, but it's just mind boggling that people think Stafford would be one.

 

[OldSchool]

If that's true; and the wedge starts to come from teammates... Oh boy. Game over.

I'm with others; very puzzled by the Rams public stance on this. Not sure what their goal is, but every scenario I can think of... the public statements seem to work against helping to increase Goff's value. And.... if it's motivation they're after, it is sort of the equivalent of shoving a dogs face in his shit to teach him to crap outside.

Goff has been our leader for 5 seasons. I hope Goff is okay with it, and we are misreading stuff here, because I'm not sure this is how I would handle one of my key guys that I've relied upon for the last 5 years.

The amount of garbage on sports sites because of these Ram's quotes, is a bad look, IMO.

A most likely scenario is this does start a club divide and we can’t get Watson or Rodgers and nobody else is an upgrade that’s potentially available. Now McSnead has really fucked up this team.

 

[badnews]

If that's true; and the wedge starts to come from teammates... Oh boy. Game over.

I'm with others; very puzzled by the Rams public stance on this. Not sure what their goal is, but every scenario I can think of... the public statements seem to work against helping to increase Goff's value. And.... if it's motivation they're after, it is sort of the equivalent of shoving a dogs face in his shit to teach him to crap outside.

Goff has been our leader for 5 seasons. I hope Goff is okay with it, and we are misreading stuff here, because I'm not sure this is how I would handle one of my key guys that I've relied upon for the last 5 years.

The amount of garbage on sports sites because of these Ram's quotes, is a bad look, IMO.

Yeah I am really disappointed in the handling of all of this. I have loved these 5 years of not being dysfunctional but I still remember what it felt like... and it felt just like this.

 

[Dodgersrf]

If that's true; and the wedge starts to come from teammates... Oh boy. Game over.

I'm with others; very puzzled by the Rams public stance on this. Not sure what their goal is, but every scenario I can think of... the public statements seem to work against helping to increase Goff's value. And.... if it's motivation they're after, it is sort of the equivalent of shoving a dogs face in his shit to teach him to crap outside.

Goff has been our leader for 5 seasons. I hope Goff is okay with it, and we are misreading stuff here, because I'm not sure this is how I would handle one of my key guys that I've relied upon for the last 5 years.

The amount of garbage on sports sites because of these Ram's quotes, is a bad look, IMO.

It makes the entire orginization look petty, imo.

As a lifelong fan, I always want to know what's really going on. I realize that there can't be full transparency for business reasons, but it can be frustrating.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

I’m genuinely curious how you came to this conclusion. Wolford completed 3 passes for 29 yards before Goff came in and we still won. Are you saying we lose if we didn’t have those 29 yards from Wolford first?

So this is a mistake on my part, one which requires I reconsider my entire statement. I confused the Cardinals game with the Seahawks game. Wolford played a good game against the Cardinals and Goff was clearly not 100% in the Seahawks game. Based on that knowledge, you start the QB that is 100% and capable which is Wolford.

However, I will take back the comment that we lose to the Seahawks if Goff starts because you are right, Wolford didn't give us much in that game. Sorry for the confusion. Been a long week.

 

[Neil039]

If that's true; and the wedge starts to come from teammates... Oh boy. Game over.

I'm with others; very puzzled by the Rams public stance on this. Not sure what their goal is, but every scenario I can think of... the public statements seem to work against helping to increase Goff's value. And.... if it's motivation they're after, it is sort of the equivalent of shoving a dogs face in his shit to teach him to crap outside.

Goff has been our leader for 5 seasons. I hope Goff is okay with it, and we are misreading stuff here, because I'm not sure this is how I would handle one of my key guys that I've relied upon for the last 5 years.

The amount of garbage on sports sites because of these Ram's quotes, is a bad look, IMO.

Couple of thoughts after reading your post.
1). Could this open discussion be a ploy by the FO to get an easy restructure from Goff. These aren’t the Druid’s you’re looking for or the contract we believe you now deserve? (Ceremonial hand gesture)
2). This FO as well as when Jeffery Michael Fisher used up Todd Gurley (IMO). One thing Gurley did well (IMO) was typically pick up the blitz or inside rush. This is one effect of his release and bad knee not talked about much. Inside pressure in Goff has been going on for the past few years. It’s not new, it definitely worse since TG III was sent out on his crutches.
3). Lastly, is this a way for the Rams to open the communication channels with other teams that see Goff as the Rams soon to be ex wife with plenty of Offer their team?
Just thinking out loud.

 

[UKram]

So many things to think about this ... but I’m confused .. they blew smoke up out asses about Gurley and cooks before they were gone .. and now they are just plain generating controversy it goes against everything they have shown in the previous years in regards to media and never once ever has mcvay and co singled out any player like it seems with goff

Either they are all in on goff and they are planning to rebuild the offense with him at the helm and they are straight trolling knowing it’s going cause controversy and clicks and they are laughing thier asses off behind closed doors

Or

They are totally done with Goff and if that’s the case as much as I think it would be a mistake they make the decisions and it’s what they are paid to do .. what I don’t agree with is the staffs almost disrespectful treatment of goff in regards to the media

 

[jrry32]

A most likely scenario is this does start a club divide and we can’t get Watson or Rodgers and nobody else is an upgrade that’s potentially available. Now McSnead has really fucked up this team.

I don't see that happening. I think Jared is the sort of guy who will respond to this if he remains on the team. The only way you press his buttons like this if you're keeping him is if you believe that he'll respond in the right way. They know him and the team better than we do. I trust them to make that call. But at the moment, I don't know their reasoning behind doing it. We'll obviously eventually get our answer.

 

[ramsplaya16]

Nothing productive is gonna come from these types of comments and interviews from McVay and Snead at this point, but They opened that can of worms.

Goff is frustrating and hard to figure, one way or the other, but a lotta serious thought and planning needs to happen before you just give up on the guy.

This x1000...

At times Goff looks brilliant, regardless of how circumstances around him are, and sometimes he looks unbelievably horrid regardless of how good or bad circumstances are, he’s extremely frustrating.

but at this point in time, until we have a plan to replace him with someone BETTER, we can’t just toss him aside.

 

[Allen2McVay]

It just blows my mind that there are people that think a guy like Stafford, who brings little if anything the table that Goff can, but brings a lot of career losing and a lot of injury history, would somehow move the needle. I can see why people think Watson would be an upgrade, but it's just mind boggling that people think Stafford would be one.

Stafford has been very durable the past ten years.

 

[Mackeyser]

Yes, both can happen ... but reading between those lines is an awful lot of hope.

First of all, acquiring Watson is going to be difficult. There are salary cap and timing issues that have been discussed. The teams that will be competing for Watson with the Rams have more ammunition. When you think of the teams that are in the running for Watson, several of them have both a better cap situation and more draft capital to work with. We don't even have a first rounder in the upcoming draft. So we are going to have to come up with more through additional trades, and we are probably still going to have to mortgage a significant portion of our draft future to get Watson. We'll also still be eating dead cap from both Goff and the other deals, which will make other issues harder to fix.

I think a lot of people are thinking that with a guy like Watson on this year's team, the offense would have been better, a reasonable position but one that will remain forever in the realm of hypothetical. Watson wouldn't be coming to this year's team, as the mere act of acquiring him is going to cause a lot of other parts to move, many of which will limit our ability to build the team around him. And even Watson, better than Goff as he may be, still needs a quality team around him, as the 4-12 record in Houston last year attests. It's entirely possible then (and not a negligible possibility by any means) that we could bring in Watson, get more production out of the QB position, and still see the team move backwards in W-L record.

I just think this is all a big gamble, when it would be much, much easier for both the upcoming season as well as for seasons afterward to focus on fixing the things around Goff, who is still very young in QB years, and put him in a better situation. If he doesn't improve in 2021, then getting out from under his deal is significantly easier and more justifiable if improvements around him have been made. Because if he does go to a better situation on another team and thrives, you have to ask yourself why this team couldn't have tried to recreate that situation around here - a much easier road to take than one or more blockbuster trades to bring in a guy like Watson - and left the Rams in a better position for long term success.

It just seems like the Rams are about to Martz this up, and we know where that led the franchise, particularly when there are easier things the team could do that would bring clarity to the situation, but won't give us the instant gratification so many are seeking. But alas, it seems that both McVay and Snead are hellbent on burning bridges with Goff, and that, at least in my opinion, doesn't reflect very well on either of them.

I have no idea how it would happen or with whom for the Rams.

Watson is just one hypothetical. The cap isn't an issue with Watson as even a "first day of the year" trade for Watson SAVES the Rams $2M against the cap. So the cap isn't an issue.

The issue will be IF Watson wants to go and it might depend on who they hire as a HC. Because of the no trade clause, Watson could pretty much demand to be traded to the Rams and force the FOs to work it out.

I can understand the concern that they will "Martz this up". I share that concern. That said, I don't think we have the same Goff we had in 2018 and I don't pretend to know the reason, but the end result is the the judgment is that the Rams seem to be moving on from 2020 Goff.

I think we'll see more when we see what the team looks like once the new league year starts.

One thing I feel pretty confident in saying. I don't think McVay or Snead are hellbent to burn bridges with Goff. I think McVay has an exacting and unyielding set of expectations for the QB position and Goff hasn't met those expectations consistently enough such that the org seems ready to move on from Goff.

I've said that the Rams are likely to make a big splash as we expect fans to be in the stands this next season, the first with fans in the NEW $5B stadium... AND we host the Super Bowl next year. That's why I bring up Watson. Stafford was the only other QB of any stature to be available at the time of McVay's comments so I don't think Rodgers was remotely a concern or possibility.

I like Stafford, but don't see him as a "splash". Watson would be a "SPLASH"

We'll see how it plays out. Even if there are plans, we won't know for sure until papers are signed and physicals are passed. In the meantime...

 

[CGI_Ram]

A most likely scenario is this does start a club divide and we can’t get Watson or Rodgers and nobody else is an upgrade that’s potentially available. Now McSnead has really fucked up this team.

Yeah I am really disappointed in the handling of all of this. I have loved these 5 years of not being dysfunctional but I still remember what it felt like... and it felt just like this.

I do think, however, we are running with just a few words from a few interviews.

One thing that annoys (all of us these days) is how stories go from "nothing".... And... if picked up by enough people, a lot of people start talking about something that is in fact still... "nothing".

I'm not tossing out the possibility it's THAT.

The Rams brass has rebuilt the culture. They are too smart to mess that up.

But... they did choose the words they used. Which sounds like more than "nothing"... which is why we are all talking about it. LOL

 

[ramsplaya16]

So many things to think about this ... but I’m confused .. they blew smoke up out asses about Gurley and cooks before they were gone .. and now they are just plain generating controversy it goes against everything they have shown in the previous years in regards to media and never once ever has mcvay and co singled out any player like it seems with goff

Either they are all in on goff and they are planning to rebuild the offense with him at the helm and they are straight trolling knowing it’s going cause controversy and clicks and they are laughing thier asses off behind closed doors

Or

They are totally done with Goff and if that’s the case as much as I think it would be a mistake they make the decisions and it’s what they are paid to do .. what I don’t agree with is the staffs almost disrespectful treatment of goff in regards to the media

I don’t foresee and NFL front office to do an elaborate troll job like this, I think they’re genuinely frustrated with him after this past season. But tipping their hand like this if they really are done with him is foolish as it takes away any leverage or value you may have had to begin with. (Not that there was a ton)

 

[thirteen28]

Stafford has been very durable the past ten years.

He got knocked out of multiple games this past season with injuries. At least two that I can think of.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Couple of thoughts after reading your post.
1). Could this open discussion be a ploy by the FO to get an easy restructure from Goff. These aren’t the Druid’s you’re looking for or the contract we believe you now deserve? (Ceremonial hand gesture)
2). This FO as well as when Jeffery Michael Fisher used up Todd Gurley (IMO). One thing Gurley did well (IMO) was typically pick up the blitz or inside rush. This is one effect of his release and bad knee not talked about much. Inside pressure in Goff has been going on for the past few years. It’s not new, it definitely worse since TG III was sent out on his crutches.
3). Lastly, is this a way for the Rams to open the communication channels with other teams that see Goff as the Rams soon to be ex wife with plenty of Offer their team?
Just thinking out loud.

All possibilities. So, yep.

The public approach however... Not sure it works for that.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Why wouldn't McVay grow frustrsted? McVay has done everything think he can to help simplify the game, making calls for Goff and changing plays based on how the D is lining up.

At the end of the day, if it takes an Elite OL, Elite RB, Elite WRs and Elite TEs for Goff to succeed, that's pathetic.. At some point you have to overcome some of those. And people keep acting like the Rams had the worst OL, RBs, WRs and TEs around Goff, when we didn't. For all the numbers guys, PFF ranked the Rams OL #3 at the end of season (Which I disagree, I feel like it's in the 6-10 range). The skill players around him were still very good and the running game was good.

And about his sacks, he was sacked less each of the last 2 years than he was his first 3.

You gotta at least be fair with your assessment. Goff has never had an elite WR two very solid possession types. Goff has never had an Elite TE unless you think Higs is elite. Goff shredded people when he had an Elite OL and RB though. I feel like he needs good pass blocking to succeed which is true for almost all QB's.

Also come on with those stats. We all know there were major weaknesses on our Oline. Changing the offense to quick passing attempts because we cant maintain blocks doesn't mean the oline was a top unit...it means we asked less of them.