The Goff-season Thread

[IBruce80]

McVay's comments were vague just after the season.
Snead, had time to think how to word things and that's the best he can cime up with?
It's business, it's ruthless, I get that.
But, the "Ram right now, what's today? Jan. 26...." 　comment is piss poor.

However, could it be seen as sarcasm? Certainly could be.
If not, then it paints a picture of the type of man he is.

I posted this a few pages ago from Goff's Instagram page from 20 Jan.
It's certainly more forthcoming and open about his wanting to improve than what his bosses have mentioned as of late.

Here it is, for those that may have missed it.

 

[den-the-coach]

Nothing productive is gonna come from these types of comments and interviews from McVay and Snead at this point, but They opened that can of worms.

What if they were just being honest? That's possible, while I agree I would utilize coaches speak or in this case GM Speak, but if they indeed trade Goff, we can look back on this and just take them for their word.

 

[Shuie3225]

It's seriously confusing that fans are throwing shade at Snead and McVay over this. They've more than earned our trust

Yea IMO it's just years of people defending Goff passionately on this forum, and I'm sure publicly as well. And just now having to face the reality that McVay and Snead feel exactly what some around here have been saying for a while. That Goff isn't the answer.

The contract and salary cap implications are a separate argument and one I completely understand. But McVay knows offensive football better than most his contemporaries. He knows QBs. If he thinks a change is best for our franchise it's crazy to doubt his evaluation.

 

[Mackeyser]

And you could be right.

That’s why i framed it as “My Guess”.

I could be wrong but I also saw a change in Jared in the pressers. He grew a sack with the media and was clearly pissed off.

I also only think any person can take only so much when the blame is off scale. With Mcvays obsession with his offense and getting it right I would guess he ran out of patience and showed his loss of faith in Jared.

These are the day of our Ramlife’s.

It may be just my personal peccadillo, but I tend to be sensitive to assigning motives or actions to folks without knowledge.

We don't know about any blame. The extent of McVay's issues with Goff may start and stop with not making the correct reads based on the play and the defense. That literally may be all of it. No blame. No accusations. Just... when McVay calls a play, based on the intention of the offense and faced with a particular defensive playcall... he expects A and if Goff gives him B, that's not gonna work.

Also, blame is a strong word and we've not heard of a single player at any of his stops saying McVay's EVER blamed a player for ANYTHING.

Fans do that shit all the time, but McVay isn't a fan. We have to separate the two.

Has McVay lost faith in Goff running his offense? I think that's pretty obvious at this point.

I guess what I'm saying is that I see a massive difference in "I expected A and got B" versus "It's your fault we didn't get A" I don't think McVay is anywhere near the latter and the former is our reality.

Unmet expectation may be the very definition of frustration, but it isn't an assignation of blame.

I kinda like this about McVay. We don't have to worry for him settling for a down year. He's not gonna do that and he's got a Mr Fantastic level flexible GM who'll get him the players he needs.

 

[Robert]

QB dissention or QBs on the hot seat is part of the NFL. See GB, HOU, NYJ, MIA, SF, LV, DEN, JAX, CHI, DET, PHI....Why should the Rams and Hoff be immune after 2 below average years? It’s the nature of the beast.

Below average? Maybe compared to 2018 sure, but in the league he has been average. NYJ, MIA, DEN, JAX, CHI, PHI have worse qb play. DET, LV, SF have been on par with Goff except they don’t win games. GB and Hou are really invalid arguments. The crazy part is Goff ceiling is higher then everyone on your list besides Rodgers and possibly Watson.

 

[Ramlock]

. I take him as a hard, relentless worker though, which helps him in his work.

Clearly a hard worker.

Has to improve the offense.

 

[Mackeyser]

McVay's comments were vague just after the season.
Snead, had time to think how to word things and that's the best he can cime up with?
It's business, it's ruthless, I get that.
But, the "Ram right now, what's today? Jan. 26...." 　comment is piss poor.

However, could it be seen as sarcasm? Certainly could be.
If not, then it paints a picture of the type of man he is.

I posted this a few pages ago from Goff's Instagram page from 20 Jan.
It's certainly more forthcoming and open about his wanting to improve than what his bosses have mentioned as of late.

Here it is, for those that may have missed it.

View attachment 43217

yeah, I think he's handling this the right way.

I've already said I didn't appreciate the "getting cute" bit by Snead, but hey... we don't know ANYTHING about what was happening behind the scenes.

This could be a divorce and Goff's taking the high road (either by his own intention or a very good agent's)

This could be the org firing not just over the bow, but within a whisker of it letting him know that he's not one of the 2 players who are untouchable on this team right now.

We just don't know. Is Goff a 9-5 guy? There was word on that when some of the players contrasted Wolford and Goff, but how much of that is real? We don't know.

We also don't know the INTENTION of the statement by Snead. Both Snead and McVay have been VERY intentional in their communication. What they say and don't say means something. Thus, I doubt Snead was being sarcastic. He HAS to know what an NFL GM saying that about their starting QB means, no question.

All we know is that combined, their statements mean something. WE don't have any idea what and won't for over a month.

 

[Shuie3225]

When I looked at every play in the first half in the Seattle game, Goff had maybe two plays where he could have gone deep instead of throwing short. And both those times, he went immediately to the main target and got close to 10 yards.

The other times, he had absolutely no one open deep.

I don't see where you can say Goff could have thrown deep if he had read the plays differently. There just weren't any.

I think that's fair..I didn't look at the Sea game film closely to evaluate. But was more so referring to the trend we've seen for 2 years now. Goff has attempted a few deep passes and mostly missed.. something he hardly ever did in 2017/2018. His deep balls used to be money. Explosive pass plays every single game. Now we're 32nd ranked in yards per attempt.

For the last two years it seems either he lost his confidence in his deep ball, or maybe in the OL holding up long enough. Ive mentioned it recently but maybe he has a type of QB ptsd after the OL play last year. Where his trust was just gone, because anytime pressure came near him it just felt like the play was dead more often than not.

Then in comes Wolford and in his first game he throws the ball down the field constantly. Completes a bunch, misses some more. But was noticably aggressive down the field. IMO I think that showed there's maybe been more down the field opportunities than we've realized with Goff almost always choosing the underneath routes in the progression. Or maybe Goff wasn't reading the defense correctly enough. Who knows its hard to say why.

 

[Mackeyser]

Nothing productive is gonna come from these types of comments and interviews from McVay and Snead at this point, but They opened that can of worms.

Goff is frustrating and hard to figure, one way or the other, but a lotta serious thought and planning needs to happen before you just give up on the guy.

I agree.

My contribution fwiw is that they are the most intentional folks in the NFL and if we can know anything for certain, we know that they've given this a LOT of serious thought.

And you can bet they don't say those things without a plan being in place.

 

[Faceplant]

When I saw you quoted me, I knew it was gonna be a Les gif, haha. This is outstanding and exactly what I think of when I hear his name. I love me some Les (most of the time), but damn is he hard to listen to.

 

[Tano]

I think that's fair..I didn't look at the Sea game film closely to evaluate. But was more so referring to the trend we've seen for 2 years now. Goff has attempted a few deep passes and mostly missed.. something he hardly ever did in 2017/2018. His deep balls used to be money. Explosive pass plays every single game. Now we're 32nd ranked in yards per attempt.

For the last two years it seems either he lost his confidence in his deep ball, or maybe in the OL holding up long enough. Ive mentioned it recently but maybe he has a type of QB ptsd after the OL play last year. Where his trust was just gone, because anytime pressure came near him it just felt like the play was dead more often than not.

Then in comes Wolford and in his first game he throws the ball down the field constantly. Completes a bunch, misses some more. But was noticably aggressive down the field. IMO I think that showed there's maybe been more down the field opportunities than we've realized with Goff almost always choosing the underneath routes in the progression. Or maybe Goff wasn't reading the defense correctly enough. Who knows its hard to say why.

I will agree with Goff definitely doesn't trust his OL up the middle.

I have seen him ignore the pressure from the outside since he trusts Whitworth and even Havenstein (for the most part) but anytime he sees pressure coming up the middle, the play is basically dead.

We really really really need an upgrade at center.

 

[MachS]

Interesting discussion from this AM. One part they talked about I didn't know and had to go look up...Deshaun Watson posted a picture on IG this week of him walking in a nice suit..and Jalen Ramsey commented "looks like a LA man tbh." Openly campaigning??


View: https://youtu.be/qwXsXT_z8Lo

 

[OldSchool]

They're trying to keep his value up while also saying they are moving on. It's a delicate dance apparently.

Better if they just shut the fuck up honestly for all parties.

 

[Loyal]

Source? Where are you getting that "Goff no longer has faith in McVay and the Rams?"

That's beyond a stretch.

Would they have to mend fences if they don't deal him? Yeah, sure.

But McVay is a professional and has always been clear and intentional in his communication. Even if it comes down to "look, we're not seeing eye to eye on this, but we have to figure it out."

Goff is as even keeled as they come and McVay has never shown any ego when it comes to communication, so the idea that they couldn't reconcile flies in the face of literally everything we know about them.

Might Goff be traded? Sure.

And as a fan, I've had plenty of fun speculating because I'm caught up on my streaming movies and with our season over, it's been a fun diversion.

But let's be real for a moment. We can't just divorce ourselves of everything we know about Goff, McVay, Snead or Demoff because we have holes in our knowledge.

I mean in Jurassic Park, they filled in the holes of the dinosaur DNA with reptilian DNA that made sense... they didn't just stuff it with jelly from a donut and call it a day. All of this projection is the jelly from a donut. It may be sweet and pretty tasty in the right context, but it just doesn't fit here... at all.

McVay is upset. Goff disagreed with McVay's assessment that he couldn't play and when called on to play, Goff played pretty well, all things considered.

This is already crazy enough when we stick with the facts that we are in possession of and use straight logic to fill in the holes we can. Beyond that??? It's not even an educated guess...

No proof aside the way things have played out and the lack of commitment in words. This is beyond lighting a fire under Goff, Mac. And none of know anything, which includes both of us. There is a hardness in McVay's face when he speaks of the situation, that I never saw in him before., which makes him look bitter and old. The words plus that look ,informs my gut belief that Goff is gone.

 

[nighttrain]

There’s no way Houston is going to trade the face of the franchise and take back Jared Goff in return. That’s even beyond Bill O’Brien stuff... “If” they trade him they’re going to be looking at one of the QB’s in the draft, paired with new HC. They can sell a rebuild with a rookie qb and new HC but you’re not rebuilding with a near 30 mill per year QB

how about a three way trade? the other party demanding silence till they are ready to dance, with in house reasons
train

 

[Allen2McVay]

Up until this year, Troy Aikman has been pro Rams, McVay and Goff; and has said he spent time with the team.

He made a comment in a mid-season game that McVay expected a deep-run this year ... even a championship ... and would be disappointed if that did not play out.

In the first Seattle game, after the Miami loss, he was very critical of Goff. Now Goff was awful in the first half against the Dolphins but this seemed beyond criticism of a QB he liked who had a bad game.

The way Aikman talked about Goff in the Wild Card Game was like he was speaking about a different player than in prior years. My opinion.

I got the feeling Aikman had moved off Goff; and it was due in large part to discussions with McVay.

I really want to be wrong here. I want Goff starting for the Rams; and I want him and McVay to work things out.

I also want some ice cream but that I can control.

 

[Bearrister]

We also don't know the INTENTION of the statement by Snead. Both Snead and McVay have been VERY intentional in their communication. What they say and don't say means something. Thus, I doubt Snead was being sarcastic. He HAS to know what an NFL GM saying that about their starting QB means, no question.

I listened to this part of Snead’s interview and it’s even worse. Bill Plaschke asked him point blank 2x (it sounds like this was a question towards the end of the interview), “You haven’t said that Goff will be your QB in 2021, you know how this is going to sound to everyone, you know the chatter this is going to cause. I’m giving you the opportunity to end that chatter and say that he’s your QB in 2021 or going forward. Is he going to be your QB?” Plaschke gave him the very clear, open opportunity to squash this talk. Snead chose not to, and in fact this is when he said the line about “Jared’s our QB right now, what is it, January 26? That’s a fact, that’s obvious.”

As I’ve said many times, I still don’t get the advantage of putting this out publicly unless you have something lined up. I don’t buy the “light a fire under Goff’s ass” argument. Telling someone publicly, in essence, that you don’t want them on the roster isn’t how you do it.

 

[OldSchool]

I listened to this part of Snead’s interview and it’s even worse. Bill Plaschke asked him point blank 2x (it sounds like this was a question towards the end of the interview), “You haven’t said that Goff will be your QB in 2021, you know how this is going to sound to everyone, you know the chatter this is going to cause. I’m giving you the opportunity to end that chatter and say that he’s your QB in 2021 or going forward. Is he going to be your QB?” Plaschke gave him the very clear, open opportunity to squash this talk. Snead chose not to, and in fact this is when he said the line about “Jared’s our QB right now, what is it, January 26? That’s a fact, that’s obvious.”

As I’ve said many times, I still don’t get the advantage of putting this out publicly unless you have something lined up. I don’t buy the “light a fire under Goff’s ass” argument. Telling someone publicly, in essence, that you don’t want them on the roster isn’t how you do it.

The problem I have with this is how bad of a business move this is if they're trying to trade him. Full disclosure I work for Coca Cola and I'm the guy that goes into a restaurant or casino or bar or whatever and tells them they'd be better off with my services than my competitions. If I'd heard that this business isn't sold on their current setup and then they talked shit and were not supportive of those services I know that I don't have to offer them much of anything to acquire their business. They're already on the way to me and it won't take anything special from me to get them. As a business how Snead and McVay are handling this is the absolute worst way to do it. They're driving the return value down.

I think they're trying to light a fire under his ass but even if that's the goal I think it's a terrible way to do it but that's just motivational/communicative techniques and there are many ways to do that it depends on the target.

 

[thirteen28]

Let's say Goff resurrects his career in Indy.

AND... the Rams acquire Watson and tear up the league.

Both can happen. Goff can be successful and we can be successful.

Sometimes divorce is good for both parties.

Yes, both can happen ... but reading between those lines is an awful lot of hope.

First of all, acquiring Watson is going to be difficult. There are salary cap and timing issues that have been discussed. The teams that will be competing for Watson with the Rams have more ammunition. When you think of the teams that are in the running for Watson, several of them have both a better cap situation and more draft capital to work with. We don't even have a first rounder in the upcoming draft. So we are going to have to come up with more through additional trades, and we are probably still going to have to mortgage a significant portion of our draft future to get Watson. We'll also still be eating dead cap from both Goff and the other deals, which will make other issues harder to fix.

I think a lot of people are thinking that with a guy like Watson on this year's team, the offense would have been better, a reasonable position but one that will remain forever in the realm of hypothetical. Watson wouldn't be coming to this year's team, as the mere act of acquiring him is going to cause a lot of other parts to move, many of which will limit our ability to build the team around him. And even Watson, better than Goff as he may be, still needs a quality team around him, as the 4-12 record in Houston last year attests. It's entirely possible then (and not a negligible possibility by any means) that we could bring in Watson, get more production out of the QB position, and still see the team move backwards in W-L record.

I just think this is all a big gamble, when it would be much, much easier for both the upcoming season as well as for seasons afterward to focus on fixing the things around Goff, who is still very young in QB years, and put him in a better situation. If he doesn't improve in 2021, then getting out from under his deal is significantly easier and more justifiable if improvements around him have been made. Because if he does go to a better situation on another team and thrives, you have to ask yourself why this team couldn't have tried to recreate that situation around here - a much easier road to take than one or more blockbuster trades to bring in a guy like Watson - and left the Rams in a better position for long term success.

It just seems like the Rams are about to Martz this up, and we know where that led the franchise, particularly when there are easier things the team could do that would bring clarity to the situation, but won't give us the instant gratification so many are seeking. But alas, it seems that both McVay and Snead are hellbent on burning bridges with Goff, and that, at least in my opinion, doesn't reflect very well on either of them.

 

[jrry32]

I'd have expected the Rams to win the Super Bowl with all of them with our team this year too.

And you would have almost certainly ended up disappointed. Brees and Ben both had top defenses and offensive talent every bit on par with us. Rodgers's team looked every bit as good as ours when we played them. Watson's 2018 Texans had a very good defense, but he put up a stinker against Indy in the playoffs. When Wilson won his Super Bowl with the LOB, he did less before the Super Bowl than Goff did in the playoffs with our defense this year.

Simply put, it's very hard to win a Super Bowl. You have unrealistic expectations if you thought this was a Super Bowl or bust year. I'm sure you'll argue that if we had a better QB, we wouldn't have had all those injuries against Seattle. But injuries are random to some degree. They can happen at any time. In order for your alternate reality to even potentially work, you have to pretend that the major injuries we suffered this year at the worst possible time just don't happen. And that's the flaw in your perspective imo.