The Goff-season Thread

[dieterbrock]

If we're going that route, it makes more sense to trade him early, avoid the roster bonus, and then move the excess money into future years via restructures. We're going to have to eat the dead cap whether we trade him before or after June 1. We eat $2.5 million less if we do it before June 1. The only difference in the two options is where the dead cap is allocated. But we can move money around fairly easily anyways.

In theory, wouldn’t they have to trade him prior to 3/19 in order to save the 2.5 mill roster bonus spend?

 

[jrry32]

What's crazy is if we swapped Goff for Watson and picks, due to his very low 2021 cap, we'd actually save about $2M if we didn't have it be a post June 1st trade.

Anyway, I went into more in a previous post, I won't reiterate here.

Question is if the Texans like Goff. I just released a Deshaun Watson mock tonight. It's the only QB trade mock I'm going to do this off-season. My thought process is that with Caserio being a New England guy, we see more of a three-team deal (frankly, it's more of a five-team deal). Here was my take on it:
1. 49ers look to have the most ammunition and the best rationale for trading for Stafford.
2. Once they make the Stafford deal, they need to move Jimmy G. Jimmy G. should be much cheaper to move than the other QBs.
3. The Colts are also reportedly interested in Stafford. They're picking far enough down in the first round to be out of the range of the top QBs. But the 49ers have a higher first round pick and can outbid them. The Colts designed their offense around Philip Rivers, have invested a lot in the OL, and have tons of cap room.
4. Who has a style similar to Rivers? Jared Goff. After losing out on Stafford, the Colts recognize they have a team ready to compete and need a QB. Goff is 26 years old, has shown he can play winning football, and has played great football at times for us. Frank Reich runs a system that meshes with Goff's game well. The Colts trade us their first for Goff.
5. The Texans have two strong options in the Jets and Dolphins. But the Jets may opt to stay at #2, rather than give up all this ammunition they have, and draft Zach Wilson, who is a great talent in his own right. That leaves the Dolphins. But if the Texans don't like Tua and don't like the optics of the Miami deal (or if Watson doesn't want to play in Miami), that might lead them to us.
6. If we emerge as the top suitor and have the 1st round pick for the Colts, we can offer them a 1st, 2nd, 2022 1st, 2023 1st, and a 2024 conditional pick (starts as a 4th, becomes a 3rd if Watson makes the Pro Bowl before the 2024 Draft, becomes a 2nd if he wins a MVP or is a First Team All Pro before the 2024 Draft, and becomes a 1st if the Rams win a Super Bowl before the 2024 Draft).
7. The Texans trade a mid-round pick (maybe a 4th) for Jimmy G. as a temporary solution.

Basically, this ends up being a domino of trades, so we need all the dominoes to line up. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it likely? Probably not.

 

[Loyal]

 

[Mackeyser]

There’s no way Houston is going to trade the face of the franchise and take back Jared Goff in return. That’s even beyond Bill O’Brien stuff... “If” they trade him they’re going to be looking at one of the QB’s in the draft, paired with new HC. They can sell a rebuild with a rookie qb and new HC but you’re not rebuilding with a near 30 mill per year QB

Lemme be clear. I think that could happen.

Jared Goff is a VERY good QB. I still believe and will say that while I may have been wrong about his potential to be elite (I was one of the few say he could be, I think), I still believe that even with his latest issues that he could easily be that top of the 2nd tier and consistently a top 10 QB.

Would Houston want that? Yeah. Why not? How can we say what a great fit Goff would be in Indy and not give him enough credit to be coveted by other teams?

Would Houston do a straight up trade? Not even in the current situation, but the idea that Goff is a ham sandwich is offensive in the extreme.

Also, don't be so sure about the new HC. The Watson situation may be a reason they don't have a new hire yet (I think they also are gonna take their time with Bienemy which I think is a mistake for Bienemy...)

Having a QB who's a 2x pro bowler, who's been to the Super Bowl and has had a winning record 4 straight years and only missed one game? That's a pretty good place to start, whether they draft a QB or not.

Having Goff as opposed to an unknown at QB may help solidify which HC they want and seeing as even with picks from a trade, they won't have enough ammo to trade up for one of the top 4 QBs... Goff would be Houston's best option by far... They'd get a solid QB and picks.

 

[Mackeyser]

Question is if the Texans like Goff. I just released a Deshaun Watson mock tonight. It's the only QB trade mock I'm going to do this off-season. My thought process is that with Caserio being a New England guy, we see more of a three-team deal (frankly, it's more of a five-team deal). Here was my take on it:
1. 49ers look to have the most ammunition and the best rationale for trading for Stafford.
2. Once they make the Stafford deal, they need to move Jimmy G. Jimmy G. should be much cheaper to move than the other QBs.
3. The Colts are also reportedly interested in Stafford. They're picking far enough down in the first round to be out of the range of the top QBs. But the 49ers have a higher first round pick and can outbid them. The Colts designed their offense around Philip Rivers, have invested a lot in the OL, and have tons of cap room.
4. Who has a style similar to Rivers? Jared Goff. After losing out on Stafford, the Colts recognize they have a team ready to compete and need a QB. Goff is 26 years old, has shown he can play winning football, and has played great football at times for us. Frank Reich runs a system that meshes with Goff's game well. The Colts trade us their first for Goff.
5. The Texans have two strong options in the Jets and Dolphins. But the Jets may opt to stay at #2, rather than give up all this ammunition they have, and draft Zach Wilson, who is a great talent in his own right. That leaves the Dolphins. But if the Texans don't like Tua and don't like the optics of the Miami deal (or if Watson doesn't want to play in Miami), that might lead them to us.
6. If we emerge as the top suitor and have the 1st round pick for the Colts, we can offer them a 1st, 2nd, 2022 1st, 2023 1st, and a 2024 conditional pick (starts as a 4th, becomes a 3rd if Watson makes the Pro Bowl before the 2024 Draft, becomes a 2nd if he wins a MVP or is a First Team All Pro before the 2024 Draft, and becomes a 1st if the Rams win a Super Bowl before the 2024 Draft).
7. The Texans trade a mid-round pick (maybe a 4th) for Jimmy G. as a temporary solution.

Basically, this ends up being a domino of trades, so we need all the dominoes to line up. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it likely? Probably not.

I agree with all of this.

That said, I think we can agree that SOMETHING's gonna happen.

Anyone who's set up dominoes knows that they don't always fall or fall as you set them up, but we'll see.

I'm a pattern guy. I really think that something is up. The fact that Mike Silver is being coy means he likely knows. We've seen enough of his reporting that when he doesn't know, he tends to say so, but when he knows, he gets cute about the subject. It's a tell of his I've noticed.

 

[Mackeyser]

McVay isn't going to get fired after next season for hanging onto Goff. The only scenario McVay gets fired after next season is if he gets caught with a dead girl, a live boy, or goes full Jeffrey Toobin on a Zoom call. If he keeps Goff one more year, does everything he can to improve the team around him, and Jared still shits the bed, then he'll be fully justified in moving on and only a few die-hards here will be wanting him to stay for another year.

However, if he dumps Goff this season and Jared goes on to resurrect his career elsewhere, it's going to be a big black mark against him. Ditto if he dumps Goff and the offense doesn't improve. And if both of those happen, he's going to be legitimately on the hot seat going into the season following that - and rightfully should be in that scenario. He advocated for Jared's extension, now it's up to him to do everything he can to make it work, especially since there are no medical issues and since two other big contracts have already gone south on us.

Let's say Goff resurrects his career in Indy.

AND... the Rams acquire Watson and tear up the league.

Both can happen. Goff can be successful and we can be successful.

Sometimes divorce is good for both parties.

Did Goff earn his early extension? Yep. And we can see that based on the next few QB contracts that waiting a year woulda been tough. Dallas didn't pay, but their QB situation is worse than ours. They may have to eat a near Mahomes contract... for Dak Prescott... ouch.

Something changed in the dynamic between Goff and McVay and I won't pretend that it is reasonable.

McVay has faults, but being unreasonable isn't one of them. He's not Martz even as they have passing similarities. He's not close to Martz in that regard.

Lastly, it's on McVay to WIN, not make a relationship work. Making relationships work is in service of winning. Since we don't know what got McVay to this point, I think it's unreasonable to assign motives, especially capricious ones as if McVay isn't the most intentional and dedicated HC maybe in the entire NFL.

I don't think the contract was bad given the info at the time nor do I think McVay's wrong to constantly reevaluate. Should he just wait it out knowing what the problem is? If he thinks it's Goff, then that's gonna be the outlook unless Snead disagrees and he seems not to.

I agree that McVay isn't going anywhere.

 

[Mackeyser]

Ok... but then you better have a plan to get one. Do McVay and Snead have a plan? And if you want to trade Goff, why do you devalue him in public first?

I would like to think we have a strategy here, but I'm not seeing it yet.

I don't think they're devaluing him at all. At the very least, they're going public that Goff is on the market without explicitly saying he's on the trading block.

Plenty of FOs won't respond to rumors, but when both Snead and McVay say what they said? I bet more than a few ears perked right up...

Rest assured, based on the language of McSnead and the media quiet about this... SOMETHING is up... I think they have their eyes on someone already and likely have the basic outlines of a deal, but there are multiple reasons why it can't be even alluded to at this time.

 

[Mackeyser]

Anyone else think Snead's quoting Aaron Rodgers "the future is a beautiful mystery" is him signaling that Rodgers is headed to LA? Guy lives in San Diego in the off-season. Wouldn't be the craziest idea in the world for him to finish things out here...

Very little chance even as Rodgers has a house in Malibu...

I think he gets his new contract and stays in GB.

 

[UKram]

Snead is about the worst interview ever. At best, a twitchy doofus. At worst, a stammering idiot.

He always seems drunk to me

 

[CGI_Ram]

I agree with all of this.

That said, I think we can agree that SOMETHING's gonna happen.

Anyone who's set up dominoes knows that they don't always fall or fall as you set them up, but we'll see.

I'm a pattern guy. I really think that something is up. The fact that Mike Silver is being coy means he likely knows. We've seen enough of his reporting that when he doesn't know, he tends to say so, but when he knows, he gets cute about the subject. It's a tell of his I've noticed.

There feels a pattern shift in the Goff conversation, and it feels a little similiar to Gurley to me. We sensed something wasnt right there... but there was a lot of mystery and speculation about what it was. Injury, attitude, meshing with coaches, etc.

This feels like that to me.

It’s a different topic, but the thought ringing in my head right now...

Flip open any sports site. You see the Snead quote, everywhere. You see Goff shit everywhere. He sees that too. It can’t feel good.

So, from a culture standpoint... I wonder the optics inside the Rams locker room. They commit to these long term deals, then appears to “turn on the player“. These big contracts appear to signal a franchise player, but we have moved on quickly after big deals, Austin, Gurley, Cooks, etc. Adding Goff to that?

Not sure if that appears one sided in commitment? Guys are getting paid, so hard to complain, but culture is a sensitive line to walk.

 

[TexasRam]

He always seems drunk to me

I always think he has a bad case of ADD and dislexia. If he had some medicine to slow his brain down and compose his thoughts it might help. I take him as a hard, relentless worker though, which helps him in his work.

 

[Loyal]

Goff is the feel-good story for us as Rams fans. The "bust." The guy who didn't know which way the sun rose and set. The guy who wasn't supposed to be any good. The Rams had "made an egregious mistake" drafting him instead of Wentz.

Now? Well, I know I don't have to sing his praises to you because you know them. I think it suffices to say that Goff is not any of those things he was supposed to be, although the jury is still out on his career trajectory. The fact is that many QBs are taken #1 yet few go on to even be a perennial starter.

Anyways, I'm not ready to give up on Goff just yet because of all of that. I am absolutely emotionally attached to him. He "stuck it to the man," as did I—vicariously—through him.

I dont think i could ever truly stop being a Rams fan. But seeing him traded would honestly break my heart.

Plus, I'd have to change my avi. SONOFA ~ Ramit

 

[Mackeyser]

I think it says that the Rams will pay you, but don't for one minute think that they will just sit and settle.

No one's talking about AD or Ramsey's money... because they are playing up to their record contracts. If it weren't for cap constriction, no one would be saying boo about Woods or Kupp's contracts, either because they're playing up to theirs as well.

What the Rams have going for them is that they DO pay which a lot of teams don't... or they get guys paid (see Fowler).

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think it says that the Rams will pay you, but don't for one minute think that they will just sit and settle.

No one's talking about AD or Ramsey's money... because they are playing up to their record contracts. If it weren't for cap constriction, no one would be saying boo about Woods or Kupp's contracts, either because they're playing up to theirs as well.

What the Rams have going for them is that they DO pay which a lot of teams don't... or they get guys paid (see Fowler).

Probably not the worst reputation to have, if that’s it.

“The Rams will take care of you (no dicking around) but expect you to perform”.

Most competitors would sign up for that.

 

[Shuie3225]

There feels a pattern shift in the Goff conversation, and it feels a little similiar to Gurley to me. We sensed something wasnt right there... but there was a lot of mystery and speculation about what it was. Injury, attitude, meshing with coaches, etc.

This feels like that to me.

It’s a different topic, but the thought ringing in my head right now...

Flip open any sports site. You see the Snead quote, everywhere. You see Goff shit everywhere. He sees that too. It can’t feel good.

So, from a culture standpoint... I wonder the optics inside the Rams locker room. They commit to these long term deals, then appears to “turn on the player“. These big contracts appear to signal a franchise player, but we have moved on quickly after big deals, Austin, Gurley, Cooks, etc. Adding Goff to that?

Not sure if that appears one sided in commitment? Guys are getting paid, so hard to complain, but culture is a sensitive line to walk.

I agree regarding how much Goff is being talked about right now. Its all over ESPN and social media. Goff hears this no doubt. Thats why at this point I'm very confident we move him. This kind of "motivation" doesn't work. It's gone beyond that, Goff has to be taking it as disrespect at this point. To have your HC and GM both publicly not commit to you being on the roster is a huge sign.

Regarding the culture, I tend to look at it a bit differently. I think it sends a powerful message to the team. If you play well you will get paid, but if you are not meeting the standard that McVay has set...and not earning your paycheck... the franchise will move you. You can point out the bad business decisions and all the dead cap $ and that is all true. But Gurley and Cooks both suffered injuries that led to them underperforming big time and not earning their money. They're both gone now. Goff is paid as a top 5 QB and has been performing as a below average NFL starter the last two years. Now it appears he's heading out the door too.

People can blame Snead and McVay for the bad contracts and its very valid. But one thing they do is try to make this team as competitive as possible, year after year. If you dont perform up to your contract, they dont hesitate to get rid of you. Doesn't matter who you are. In 2018 if you would have said both Gurley and Goff will not be on this roster in 2 years...no one would have believed that shit.

 

[Loyal]

Jared Goff, 42-20 since 2017. The old saw of a QB getting too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses gets turned on its ear in LA. Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. A big move to get another QB might work, but it seems that the Rams kinda suck at getting decent QB's and it seems that we are about to get rid of one now.

Mistake.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

Yeah, teams spend so many resources searching at this position... What does an upgrade look like?

I see Mahomes and others... sure. But I also see a lot of teams who would be happy with a guy like Goff.

So... we want to go up, and find someone better...

A lot of teams are trying that.

It looks hard.

 

[Loyal]

Yeah, teams spend so many resources searching at this position... What does an upgrade look like?

I see Mahomes and others... sure. But I also see a lot of teams who would be happy with a guy like Goff.

So... we want to go up, and find someone better...

A lot of teams are trying that.

It looks hard.

What's more likely? We get the next Aaron Rodgers? Or do we get the next Kellen Clemmens, Case Keenum, etc.... ? It's more likely that we do a lateral move at best instead of an ugrade.

 

[TexasRam]

Let's look at this analytically.

Have we EVER known this FO group to be this... I dunno... smug about a PLAYER??? This "cute" in a pedantic way before?

I mean, it's been 4 years and they've not said a single thing about a former player and they constantly talk UP current players even as they desperately need to improve.

So... let's not treat Snead, McVay et al as fans for a second. Let's just analyze this.

Snead and McVay have been almost maddeningly intentional and sincere in their communications for four years now without a single deviation. It's pretty incredible, actually, to be that consistent.

And now we have this... it is an inconsistent mode of communication ABOUT a player from a FO/HC group. It's inconsistent with literally every other communication about a player. But... even in this... they've been PURPOSEFULLY consistent... they both say "he's here for now" and continue to reinforce how the "offense has to improve"

I can only conclude a few things.

1) In the age of new media, THIS is how you fire warning shots... you "go public". Especially because Goff's SO is ON social media, he won't be able to escape it... not really. So, we may be waiting for the other shoe to drop on if it's "message received" or "I wanna divorce"

2) The Rams FO has something blockbuster lined up and they are ITCHING to say something about it, but cannot for multiple reasons. That aligns with not only what this FO has been about, but also cements if it weren't already that McVay and this FO are ALWAYS in Win Now mode. Always. This eliminates any Jordan Love, Hodges, Wolford or any other lesser QB as the reason for all this. If this is it, we're gonna find out within the first few days of the league new year.

3) I never agreed about the narrative that Goff was merely a McVay puppet as if this were Madden. That was always BS. What has always been true is that the OFFENSE has always been McVay's and when you couple the turnovers with the apparent lack of extra work... THAT has to be driving McVay almost literally insane and I can see for McVay how that has to be an unforgivable sin. The question is does Goff see it that way and will he submit, repent and atone? Or will he acquiesce and slide on out? I dunno.

But here's what I can say.

Snead and McVay are FAR too intentional with their words and actions to BOTH allow multiple opportunities to "accidentally" reiterate the same position. And we've trusted them to run a winning organization while they've been together and they've done that.

TL;dr SOMETHING's coming and it's on purpose. Whether that's a reformed and refocused Goff or they make a blockbuster deal, we'll see, but this group hasn't ever functioned this way before and I can't wrap my head around the notion that they are chosing to act irresponsibly with their starting QB by being cute and smug with their language on multiple occasions.

I also find it strange one last thing. Watson tweets a few things and Rodgers simply says he doesn't know what's next and the sports media loses its collective minds. Both the HC and GM of the Rams all but come out and say that Goff in his current form isn't gonna be here next year (meaning he drastically improves or they've already found his replacement) and... almost nothing. I'm wondering if they've disclosed a massive deal off the record, so the reporters are waiting and not reporting on this for fear of a) turning on other reporters who might ask questions and b) they don't want to accidentally disclose anything that was said off the record. I say this because while Goff is routinely ignored, McVay and Snead are not.

I find this overall silence... disturbing. Something's up. Whether it ends up good or bad, I dunno, but my spidey senses are tingling and the patterns I observe do not align with modest or prudent future actions.

Yep you have described it well my friend. The messaging is off. Big time. Something has shifted.

I don't agree on the lack of extra work statement. Unless I missed something that appears made up. I don't think there is any question of Goff's work ethic.

But you are correct something is going down and it is most likely they are dealing Goff or going to try hard.

Here is my guess how it went down. I think the blame Goff was getting from Mcvay and Oconnell in his ear after somewhere around the Seattle game ghost interception intensified. This is the same week he broke his thumb. My guess is Jared got tired of being the scape goat for the shitty Oline and play calls that were clearly getting predictable.

I honestly believe Jared got tired of the BS blame game and bowed up to Mcvay. When Mcvay told Jared that Wolford would be starting we know for a fact via Jareds statement at the press conference that he disagreed with Mcvay and wanted to start. There was probably a huge loss of trust in Mcvay for not backing Jared and I am sure Jared let him know. I would. I would say I disagree with starting Wolford but you are the coach and I accept whatever you say and wont complain to the media. But I bet at this exact time Jared finally let Mcvay know how much BS it was to blame him for the terrible decision not to upgrade the Oline and the play calls that were getting snuffed out due to Mcvay not innovating.

I am be wrong but it looks to me like the Goff Mcvay marriage died that day.

Mcvay then went to Snead and said we are moving on. They kept it private but are on the same page with their messaging to the media.

Mcvay was too stubborn to admit he was part of the problem with the play calls and Oline decisions.

Goff was tired of the blame and let Mcvay know the reality.

So here we are.

Reminds me of a Pearl Jam song....

Once divided -- nothing left to subtract
Some words when spoken -- can't be taken back
Walks on his own -- with thoughts he can't help thinking
Future's above -- but in the past he's slow and sinking
Caught a bolt 'a lightnin' cursed the day he let it go
Nothingman -- isn't it something.

One day one of these two may curse the day they let the marriage go.

 

[Robert]

Pretty simple, if the rams have a chance to get better at QB, Rodgers, Watson then you try to make it happen. If they cannot Goff should be the QB of this team. People like to hate on Goff for whatever reason but I don’t care how good our defense played you don’t go 10-6 with Walford playing qb. Goff had 13 int and 4FL this year. Remember that great Super Bowl year he had? He had 12 Int and 5FL. The big difference is he didn’t have the touchdown numbers and he had a guy named Todd Gurley catching passes out of the backfield. Having Cam Akers as the #1 back should take a lot of pressure off Goff