The Goff-season Thread

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Bearrister

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Carr - I have seen a good to very good Carr but also a terrible Carr - I would give Goff right now a smidgen over Carr
Stafford - this is a guy I might like over Goff but some Detroit fans hate him so don't really know
Prescott - without Ezekiel he sucks - he just does not have the accuracy
You know how I feel about Murray and Jackson
Rothlisberger Brady Brees and River - yes in a heartbeat 7-10 years ago
Burrow - just not sure about him yet
Hebert - another rookie that needs to prove it
Tua - pfft - Miami might be moving on from him
Darnold - maybe if his head got straightened back on right - the Jets have so screwed up his psyche that no
No one on Washington or New York Giants
Bridgewater - he just doesn't impress since his mobility is not the same
Clevelands QB - too lazy to look up name but NO
Denver QB - no
Jacksonville QB - Minshew - haven't seen enough of him to really make a judgement
Cousins - just not a winner - so no - seen too many crap games in important games
Trubinsky - he is absolutely terrible - had a good stretch against bad teams but no
New England - you have seen what they have done at QB
Tannehill - saw what he did against Baltimore and so No
Ryan - that is definitely a possibility
Wentz/Hurtz - not impressed with either

So out of all the other QBs - maybe Ryan and Stafford with a heads on straight Darnold as a possible runner up

None of the other QBs have shown me anything that Goff doesn't already have especially if Goff gets an above average Center.

I mostly agree with this list. The only non-elite QB’s I’d seriously consider are Stafford, Ryan, and maybe Carr (although I’m much more lukewarm about Carr). Herbert has promise but we have to see if he continues to develop.

Josh Allen - he had a great season but he also had an elite WR, and we’ll need to see if he can continue this level of play. I wouldn’t lump him in the “elite” category until he shows this isn’t just 1 great year. Remember that he was viewed as an absolute bum (see: Jalen Ramsey) until recently.

I get the point that Goff is making elite money and we hope for elite play. But we also have to deal with the reality that we’re stuck with his contract and realistically he’s not going anywhere. We could be in an even worse situation at QB.
 

Merlin

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Josh Allen - he had a great season but he also had an elite WR, and we’ll need to see if he can continue this level of play. I wouldn’t lump him in the “elite” category until he shows this isn’t just 1 great year. Remember that he was viewed as an absolute bum (see: Jalen Ramsey) until recently.
You might want to watch more Allen film.
 

jrry32

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You might want to watch more Allen film.

Cam Newton and Lamar each won NFL MVP awards after having dominant seasons. They looked absolutely unstoppable. This is Allen's first year that was better than average. He was great. But nobody should be completely sold on him until they see more.
 

Bearrister

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Cam Newton and Lamar each won NFL MVP awards after having dominant seasons. They looked absolutely unstoppable. This is Allen's first year that was better than average. He was great. But nobody should be completely sold on him until they see more.

Exactly my point. I’m not disputing that Allen had a great season (I said as much in my post), but not every QB can sustain that level of play in the long run. We only have to look at Goff or Wentz.
 

dieterbrock

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Cam Newton and Lamar each won NFL MVP awards after having dominant seasons. They looked absolutely unstoppable. This is Allen's first year that was better than average. He was great. But nobody should be completely sold on him until they see more.
-Carson Wentz likes this-
 

thirteen28

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My comments inline, with some afterwards.

Ok fine. And btw I try not to do this because I don't particularly enjoy bashing on our QB. There's a difference IMO in observing where he came up short (which I have on many many occasions not like anyone's interested in hearing it though of course) and posting mean shit against him. This is not something I feel good doing so remember that you asked.

Let's start with a list based on 2020 passer ratings courtesy of the football database.

Rogers. No brainer.
Watson. No brainer.
Mahomes. No brainer.
Allen. No brainer.
Tannehill. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

No argument with the first five on the list.

Brees. No brainer.

Brees 5 or 10 years ago? Yes. Not the 2020 Brees. His arm was shot. The Saints had to bring in Taysom Hill or Jameis Winston for long passes. Brees couldn't have made many of the throws that Goff made against the Packers, he simply doesn't have the arm anymore. His 3 picks in the playoffs against the Buc could all be attributed to a weak arm. So hard pass on the 2020 version of Brees.


Wilson. No brainer.

No argument.

Cousins. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

No. His team missed the playoffs and he's underachieved most of his career, which leads me to believe he wouldn't have done much with this team. His last game with McVay as OC, with the playoffs on the line, two quality WRs and two quality TEs, he laid an egg and they missed it. Has come up short in far too many important games. I don't care what his stats say this year.

Brady. No brainer.

Probably some improvement, but not as big a gap as you think given his age and declining arm. Brady played this season with a stout OL, three WRs better than any on the Rams, and a HOF TE who can still play. And still, Brady struggled for about the first 2/3 of the season. He wouldn't have had the same performance with the Rams current offensive talent, and given Goff's history, he would have had a better performance with the talent Brady has at his disposal.

Carr. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

Carr, at his best, is as inconsistent as Goff has been the last two years, which is not Goff at his best.

Jackson. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

Jackson is a running QB, but he's never been as good a thrower as Goff is. He certainly would have had more rushing yards than Goff, but that's not what most of us are looking for in a QB.

Herbert. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.

Herbert did good, but I think its a reach to say he would have done as well or better than Goff with the Rams roster this year.

Rivers. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.

I'll give you this one. He should be in the HoF in five years.

Stafford. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

Stafford has plenty of history, and physically he's more talented than Goff. Still, he had one of the most dominant receivers in NFL history for several years and has had at least a few where he had more talent around him than Goff has now, and what does he have to show for it? Does he have even one playoff win? So what makes you sure he'd be better than Goff on this team?

Mayfield. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.

I could see Mayfield being about as good as Goff with this team, given what he did in Cleveland this year, although he had a better line and at least equal if not better skill position players in some spots. The mobility helps, sure, but we already knew Goff wasn't mobile before he took his first snap with the Rams. Are we going to start dinging him for lack of the same now?

Minshew. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.

You need to give me more than "less time to throw per snap" to convince me that he would have done better with this Rams offense than Goff this year. Some people are putting their hopes in this guy because he might shake loose when Trevor Lawrence gets drafted by the Jags. But you need to give me something more affirmative than what you have to convince me he would have done better than Goff with this team.

Fitzpatrick. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.

There's a reason Fitz has played on about 11-teen teams in the NFL now, and it's because he's never been a consistent starter over any reasonably long period. Put him in with what Goff had this year and/or last, and he probably struggles as much and probably more, based on Fitz's own history.

Murray. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.

Had better WRs than Goff too, and a decent RB and still finished behind us in the division. Mobility is about the only thing he has on Goff right now, and if you neutralize that, he isn't nearly as effective. Goff, obviously, has never had to rely on mobility.

Roethlisberger. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.

Again, another guy living off past glory. Ten years ago, this is a no brainer. But in 2020, Ben faded BADLY down the stretch and was God-awful at home in the playoffs, turning the ball over four times including 3 picks in the first half and digging his team into a huge hole they couldn't get out of ... against a Browns team that saw it's starting secondary get wiped out by Covid and pretty much had to practice during the week by zoom calls. Not going to give you this one at all.

Trubitsky. Probably would have struggled more than Goff.

Agreed.

Ryan. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

Probably, with a caveat in that Goff has never had a receiver as dominant as Julio Jones to throw to. How much better would Goff have been this year if you had dropped a Julio Jones into the lineup but kept everything else the same?

So going through your list, I count 9 in the range from "would have likely outperformed Goff in the Rams offense to most definitely would have". A lot of them I just don't see it. Brees now, for one, can't make nearly as many throws as Goff can make, and whereas Goff's accuracy hasn't been as good on deep throws this year, Brees wouldn't even be able to think about those. Many of the guys you picked over Goff have histories of inconsistency, and virtually none of them have had a two-year stretch like Goff had in 2017-18. Some, like the previously mentioned Brees, as well as Big Ben, are not the same guys they used to be. And even a HoF like Brady, who probably would have done better in his 2020 version, still wouldn't have outperformed him by as big a gap as you think if his early-to-mid season struggles with a more talented offense were any indication.

So I'm sticking with 9. Your mileage may very, and so be it if so.
 

Shuie3225

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Cam Newton and Lamar each won NFL MVP awards after having dominant seasons. They looked absolutely unstoppable. This is Allen's first year that was better than average. He was great. But nobody should be completely sold on him until they see more.

Cam Newton and Lamar Jackson are your comparisons? Both are run first QBs, or QBs where they want to beat you with their legs.

Josh Allen's arm is his specialty yet he also has plus athleticism and strength. His throwing ability, both arm strength and the accuracy he showed this year are on a completely different level than those two. If you weren't sold on what you saw from Josh Allen this year then I sincerely doubt your ability to evaluate QBs, or you didn't watch enough of his film. Its one of those two. He's an absolute monster.
 

jrry32

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Exactly my point. I’m not disputing that Allen had a great season (I said as much in my post), but not every QB can sustain that level of play in the long run. We only have to look at Goff or Wentz.

I think both will bounce back, personally.
 

FrantikRam

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And unless you catch lightning in a bottle like the Rams did with Warner, you're not going to get a QB to replace him without severely hampering this team's ability to restock its talent through the draft and free agency. Pining for Watson to be on this team as it is now, or at least was in 2020, is wishing for something that will never be. There are only a handful of QBs in the league that would have had better results with this roster, and they are all locked up by their respective teams.


We are where we are. If you want the Rams to get back to the Super Bowl, it's the people in front of Goff you need to look at first, because even if Goff eliminates the unforced errors, he's still not going to get back to 2017-18 level with a 2019-20 OL. Get that right for next year and let's see what Goff does with it. If he still doesn't get better, then at least we can move on knowing we fixed it and gave him a chance and have it set up for the next guy in line.


I just couldn't disagree more, but we'll just be going around in circles.

If he eliminates the unforced errors, we likely would have gone 13-3 and would be in the NFCCG right now, a home game against the Packers and more rested which IMO is a game we would win.
 

FrantikRam

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Ok fine. And btw I try not to do this because I don't particularly enjoy bashing on our QB. There's a difference IMO in observing where he came up short (which I have on many many occasions not like anyone's interested in hearing it though of course) and posting mean shit against him. This is not something I feel good doing so remember that you asked.

Let's start with a list based on 2020 passer ratings courtesy of the football database.

Rogers. No brainer.
Watson. No brainer.
Mahomes. No brainer.
Allen. No brainer.
Tannehill. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Brees. No brainer.
Wilson. No brainer.
Cousins. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Brady. No brainer.
Carr. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Jackson. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Herbert. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Rivers. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Stafford. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Mayfield. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.
Minshew. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Fitzpatrick. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Murray. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.
Roethlisberger. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Trubitsky. Probably would have struggled more than Goff.
Ryan. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

The problem here is fans don't realize how poor Goff's play was this season. It was the problem after the Miami game and it is still a problem on all the Rams sites.

Another problem is that fans don't realize recognizing how bad his play was doesn't mean they hate him.


Thread winner. Game over.

This isn't exclusive to Goff - he was just bad this year.

AD is already a hall of famer - but if he had a season equivalent to what Goff had, I'd talk about it. It would be awful to be paying a defensive player $24 million to be mediocre, and that's with a hall of fame resume behind him.

All things considered I think most of us who share this opinion have actually gone pretty easy on him.
 

FrantikRam

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Back in 2018 when he was lighting it up - 3/4 of the board was calling him "Elite"

so not so sure about that.


And there were probably three posters, who were mostly trolling, who had an issue with Goff. The rest of us were all in up until the end of 2018.
 

jrry32

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Ok fine. And btw I try not to do this because I don't particularly enjoy bashing on our QB. There's a difference IMO in observing where he came up short (which I have on many many occasions not like anyone's interested in hearing it though of course) and posting mean shit against him. This is not something I feel good doing so remember that you asked.

Let's start with a list based on 2020 passer ratings courtesy of the football database.

Rogers. No brainer.
Watson. No brainer.
Mahomes. No brainer.
Allen. No brainer.
Tannehill. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Brees. No brainer.
Wilson. No brainer.
Cousins. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Brady. No brainer.
Carr. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Jackson. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Herbert. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Rivers. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Stafford. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Mayfield. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.
Minshew. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Fitzpatrick. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Murray. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.
Roethlisberger. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Trubitsky. Probably would have struggled more than Goff.
Ryan. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

The problem here is fans don't realize how poor Goff's play was this season. It was the problem after the Miami game and it is still a problem on all the Rams sites.

Another problem is that fans don't realize recognizing how bad his play was doesn't mean they hate him.

Sigh. Are we really back on the time to throw per snap nonsense? Russell Wilson had more time to throw per snap than Goff. But we both know that Wilson's OL was not a good pass blocking unit. That stat isn't helpful. It doesn't account for differences in schemes or differences in playing styles. Last I saw, we were the heaviest play-action passing team in the NFL. If somebody overtook us for #1, we were easily in the top 3. Play-action passes are slower developing plays, as are bootlegs (something else we used a lot). I watched this team play 18 games. Our traditional dropback passing game was all about quick throws this year. The time to throw stat isn't going to be an apples to apples comparison for those reasons.

As for the rest of it, I'm not going to speculate over which QBs would be better or worse in our system. Outside of the obvious ones, it's a completely pointless debate.
 

BonifayRam

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It's a possibility but what else can you do if you can't sign any free agent OL.

Sometimes you can get a Diamond in the Rough.

Two centers in this years draft in the 3rd round or later are starting and are doing better than Blythe. And another center in Washington drafted in the 6th round took a year to learn and is doing quite well now

I would just make it a point to draft one OL in the first 4 rounds every year. And keep hoping for the best. Sometimes you might hit the jackpot and be able to resign them at a home team discount.
Just a really bad place to be in. Allen & Noteboom both 3rd & 4th rd picks neither have a starting position & they are in their last yr of their 4 yr contract. Evans entering his 3rd yr was a 3rd rd pick & has yet to find a starting post. Now one hit was OG David Edwards has been a starter since being selected in the 5th rd in 2019.

I just see more production on the field from CB/ OLB/ DE/ ILB/ RB & safeties in their 1st & 2nd yrs & see little to nothing from OL'ers. No way the Rams HC will start & play a rookie OC.
 

Mackeyser

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but apparently jared goff had nothing to do with the rams 10 wins. it was mcvay, the d, the rbs, the wrs, the waterboy. jared just stood there and watched all those wins unfold.

.

Of course he did.

it's possible to acknowledge that Jared Goff is a VERY good QB... and that Deshaun Watson would be a pretty big upgrade.

These are not mutually exclusive ideas.
 

Mackeyser

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Espn just reported houston's starting point for Watson. 3 firsts and possibly additional picks. Yikes.

Cool.

See if the Colts are interested in Goff for their 2021 1st.

Turn that around and send 2021, 2022, 2023 1st rounders, plus a conditional pick in 2023 (up to 2nd rounder if we win Super Bowl in either year prior) for Watson.

Colts were initially interested in Wentz, have a low 1st round pick so no shot at drafting one and surely don't want to waste their OL's window.

Heck, I'd ask Indy for more than that, just saying the minimum would be a 1st and maybe a 3rd.

I honestly have no idea what's gonna happen, but I guess other than having fun speculating... I'm only pointing to how possible it is. Probable? Probably not, but possible.

And this FO... this FO is about the polar opposite of any past Rams FO...
 

Mackeyser

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Overrated? Lol. As a disclaimer to the following I can’t stand Tom Brady and despise the Patriots. Having said that he is absolutely the GOAT-in terms of athletic ability and natural talent-no. But as a winner-not even close.

The guy is 43 yrs old and is playing in his 15 championship game. That’s right-15th. I can’t even fathom that. Easy division? Ok, then explain his record against the NFC (65-20). Plenty of opportunities for teams to knock him out in the playoffs-couldn’t get it done so if anyone wants to complain about the division he played in explain his record outside of the division.

Great coaches-obviously Belechick but outside of him you could argue that Brady made those coaches around him look good based on their track record once they left the Patriots. Josh McDaniel-lol. The guys a clown.

How about the talent around him? For the most part the guys thrown the ball to a bunch of mid round WRs. When he did get a talent like Moss he put up insane numbers and basically obliterated every team he faced. Can’t remember the last time he’s had a big time RB either. The guys adjusted to the talent around him every year-whether it be his TEs, WRs or RBs the guy always knows who to throw the ball to no matter the talent around him. As a side note how about him making his OL look better. He made a lot of his lineman millionaires when they left the Pats and most of them played like shit with their new teams.


Like I said-I can’t stand that smug faced fuck but I respect the work he puts in-not many guys work harder than him to be the best. I wish our QB who has more natural ability would spend half the time Brady puts in trying to win championships.

That's the problem... i think he does put in half the time...LOL