The Goff-season Thread

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payote75

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I have never stated that you either love or hate Goff. No - I just feel certain people are downright critical of Goff without acknowledging that Goff has played well in those same games.

The Miami game - he played terrible in the first half and made terrible decisions - if he doesn't, we win that game with ease

However, he had a very good 4th qtr and did bring us back to the point that if Everett catches the ball, we have a good chance at possibly winning the game.

The first 49er game - again a terrible first half, but guess what he had a very good 2nd half and again almost brought us back in the game if either Kupp or Higbee catches the two dropped TD passes.

He brought us back in the Jets game only to have two chancy play calls at the end of the game. Both of them should have been shorter play designs but McVay AND Goff saw the defense match ups and decided to roll the dice. I would have been more conservative but then again I have seen conservative coaches lose because they are too conservative.

The second 49er game - Goff brought us back only for the defense to have one of their few end of game hiccups and lose it.

And the Green Bay game - he was bringing us back when Reynolds dropped the ball.

In each of those games (except the Green Bay game) he had terrible first halves and decisions but had good to very good second halves.

And the second halves play is what gives me hope that with an upgrade at Center will bring Goff back to the very good QB range.

He will never be elite because if he doesn't have a above average to good line, he will not be able to carry the team on his back.

But how many QBs can do that right now? Watson (maybe) Wilson Mahomes Rodgers and Allen.

That's it. Until the Rookies do it more than one year, I won't believe that they can do it either. It usually takes one year before defenses figure out rookies. Year and a half in Murray's case. He has been figured out. Jackson too because if you contain Jackson in the pocket, he becomes a less than average QB.

Yea dude I completely get it and sorry if it came across accusatory none of this supposed to go down like that. I understand where your coming from and I will always rooting for Goff as long as he wears the rams uniform and to be honest as an individual even if he were to leave I'd still cheer for him except against us. I'd still want him to prove everyone wrong. He has been unfairly attacked and basically dismantled. And your points are valid but if an owner pays a qb that much they/we/I want superstar performance. Now I'm willing to take game manager causes it's not my money.

So your primarily always rational on your posts and informative if I ask you this question how would you answer it honestly.

If you could upgrade Goff with any qb would you do it and which qb's would be acceptable to you and I'd like to know from all the heavy real deep Goff defenders.

I'd start a thread but there seems to be a lot of Goff threads.

I am truly curious though. We spend a lot of time in here on game days going back and forth as if we were at a pub so I'd like to see where everyone's heads at and where they put Goff. So if like a thread but I'm not ballsy enough to start it lmao!!!
 

Tano

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Yea dude I completely get it and sorry if it came across accusatory none of this supposed to go down like that. I understand where your coming from and I will always rooting for Goff as long as he wears the rams uniform and to be honest as an individual even if he were to leave I'd still cheer for him except against us. I'd still want him to prove everyone wrong. He has been unfairly attacked and basically dismantled. And your points are valid but if an owner pays a qb that much they/we/I want superstar performance. Now I'm willing to take game manager causes it's not my money.

So your primarily always rational on your posts and informative if I ask you this question how would you answer it honestly.

If you could upgrade Goff with any qb would you do it and which qb's would be acceptable to you and I'd like to know from all the heavy real deep Goff defenders.

I'd start a thread but there seems to be a lot of Goff threads.

I am truly curious though. We spend a lot of time in here on game days going back and forth as if we were at a pub so I'd like to see where everyone's heads at and where they put Goff. So if like a thread but I'm not ballsy enough to start it lmao!!!
Yes I would upgrade with Watson because he just needs an average OL to be an All Pro - Mahomes Rodgers (maybe but he is getting old) Allen and Wilson. But we aren't getting any of them.

We are stuck with Goff for the time being and as others have stated, if we do upgrade the Center position (the only one imho that really needs to be upgraded at this time) and Goff STILL makes stupid ass decisions (that Seattle throw still burns me) then I would not be opposed to going to get one in the 2022 draft. We will have 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds plus Goff.

But I am fairly positive that if we upgrade the center position and isn't consistently being pushed back into Goff, that Goff will stop making the majority of those stupid ass decisions and the deep pass will come back even if it is only Jefferson who goes deep consistently. I think Jefferson has the ability to do that.

Plus as McVay stated, if we can get some big play ability back, I think we won't have as many long drawn out drives and Goff won't have as many plays in a drive to make a big mistake.

It seems the majority of the time he starts making the mistakes between the opponents 10 and 40 yard line. And I don't know why that is.
 

FrantikRam

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Part of the problem with this debate is you seem to want to debate the relative merits of QBs while I am trying to illustrate how fans too often single them out and miss the bigger picture of what's going on with the team as a whole.

Want to make the case that Warner, a HOF QB, was better that Goff? No argument from me. And you can certainly make an argument that I'll probably agree with in regard to Watson being more talented than Goff.

Still, as I demonstrated with Warner, when he ran into a rough patch, the Rams organization and a significant chunk of the fanbase threw him under the bus and blamed him for a whole host of problems that weren't solved with his departure and got worse over time, while Warner's problems were solved once he figured out the use of the glove and had some decent talent around him. With Watson, you've argued that he can put up good numbers on a team that went 4-12, and I have no disagreement with that, nor do I blame Watson for Houston's troubles. However, just as were fans willing and eager to throw Warner under the bus when trouble began, I'd bet dollars to donuts that there are fans in Houston's fanbase ready to dump Watson for their 4-12 finish, which would be stupid.

While I will certainly agree there are things that Goff needs to do better on, if anyone expects him to get back to his 2017-18 form while standing pat with the surrounding team, you are probably dreaming of something that can never be. So instead of throwing the QB under the bus as this franchise and fanbase is wont to do, we should probably demand that the improve the parts of the team that have declined along with Goff's play from that time.

Two years ago, after Goff led this team to the Super Bowl in only his 3rd year, McVay committed to him - the extension Goff signed wouldn't have happened had the head coach not given his thumbs up. Well, the word "commitment" means you stick to it even when you hit a rough patch. It doesn't take a commitment to stick with things when they are going great. Further, when you commit to a QB, you commit to creating the conditions in which he can thrive, or at least agree to accept that he'll struggle some when those conditions are not present. And those conditions haven't been present for two years now because McVay and Snead agree to let two interior lineman of a great offensive line go at the same time, one of whom was worth re-signing (Saffold), and added to that mistake by not bringing anyone in for the following season when it was clear it wasn't going to work out. Last year the Rams focused their FA energies on defensive guys while the draft brought in one reserve lineman in the late rounds. They gambled that they could trot out the same 5 starters as last year and that the offense would return to form. We saw how that worked out.

So instead of pining for a QB like Watson - one in which we would have to blow up the team to get and create conditions not unlike those under which he went 4-12, maybe we should have a little fucking patience with the guy we have now - who has demonstrated the ability to play at an extremely high level with the right conditions. And maybe the coaching staff and GM should replace the turnstile we have for a center and get more beef for the interior OL, thereby actually honoring the commitment they made two years ago.

Tossing away talented QB's is almost as bad as churning your head coach when it comes to franchise success. The Rams tossed away Jim Everett in the 1990's, nothing improved at QB from that move and the team turned to dogshit for the better part of a decade. Then they turned around and tossed Warner under the bus and the team turned to dogshit for more than a decade. Maybe the fanbase and the team could learn from that history.


This all comes back to the same thing - IMO this team is more than good enough for a good QB to win a Super Bowl with.

That's what it seems to be coming down to - some of us feel like the team is not good enough, others think it's more than good enough, hence the widely varying opinions. This year the Chiefs drafted a RB in the first round after winning a Super Bowl - and after Damien Williams had the game of his life. It worked out because Williams opted out of the season, but the Chiefs didn't know that when they picked.

Point is, despite winning the Super Bowl they decided to upgrade a position that had been inconsistent for them, but had an incredible Super Bowl.

Which is all to say, the Rams making the Super Bowl with Goff at QB has nothing to do with how well he's playing now - the list of QBs that have "led their team" to a Super Bowl is a big one, filled with equal amounts of average players and HoFers.
 

Tano

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The Buffalo game was something else too
I didn't include that game because he really didn't have a bad first half. Didn't have a good first half but wasn't terrible either. That half was entirely on the defense from what I recall.

But then again - why did I include the Green Bay game lol
 

Tano

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This all comes back to the same thing - IMO this team is more than good enough for a good QB to win a Super Bowl with.

That's what it seems to be coming down to - some of us feel like the team is not good enough, others think it's more than good enough, hence the widely varying opinions. This year the Chiefs drafted a RB in the first round after winning a Super Bowl - and after Damien Williams had the game of his life. It worked out because Williams opted out of the season, but the Chiefs didn't know that when they picked.

Point is, despite winning the Super Bowl they decided to upgrade a position that had been inconsistent for them, but had an incredible Super Bowl.

Which is all to say, the Rams making the Super Bowl with Goff at QB has nothing to do with how well he's playing now - the list of QBs that have "led their team" to a Super Bowl is a big one, filled with equal amounts of average players and HoFers.
Which "GOOD" QB do you think would lead the Rams to a superbowl (don't include Mahomes Rodgers Wilson Watson and Allen because they are ALL PROS right now and unreachable - yes I said Watson is unreachable - that is a pipe dream for all of you).

And I will "GLADLY" eat crow if the Rams do get Watson.

And none of the first round rated QBs because we won't get them either.
 

payote75

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Yes I would upgrade with Watson because he just needs an average OL to be an All Pro - Mahomes Rodgers (maybe but he is getting old) Allen and Wilson. But we aren't getting any of them.

We are stuck with Goff for the time being and as others have stated, if we do upgrade the Center position (the only one imho that really needs to be upgraded at this time) and Goff STILL makes stupid ass decisions (that Seattle throw still burns me) then I would not be opposed to going to get one in the 2022 draft. We will have 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds plus Goff.

But I am fairly positive that if we upgrade the center position and isn't consistently being pushed back into Goff, that Goff will stop making the majority of those stupid ass decisions and the deep pass will come back even if it is only Jefferson who goes deep consistently. I think Jefferson has the ability to do that.

Plus as McVay stated, if we can get some big play ability back, I think we won't have as many long drawn out drives and Goff won't have as many plays in a drive to make a big mistake.

It seems the majority of the time he starts making the mistakes between the opponents 10 and 40 yard line. And I don't know why that is.
I agree with that all very true.
Sorry I should have worded the question better I meant besides the obvious qbs. Like the top 5-7. Anyone on your list that you like on Goffs level. Like Watson may be better than Goff the fact remains and this I have posted many times while Watson may have better overall skills Goff has accomplishments that he does not so I'd put them together? What about a guy like Carr or Stafford Prescott etc. I guess mid tier dudes.
 

thirteen28

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This all comes back to the same thing - IMO this team is more than good enough for a good QB to win a Super Bowl with.

That's what it seems to be coming down to - some of us feel like the team is not good enough, others think it's more than good enough, hence the widely varying opinions. This year the Chiefs drafted a RB in the first round after winning a Super Bowl - and after Damien Williams had the game of his life. It worked out because Williams opted out of the season, but the Chiefs didn't know that when they picked.

Point is, despite winning the Super Bowl they decided to upgrade a position that had been inconsistent for them, but had an incredible Super Bowl.

Which is all to say, the Rams making the Super Bowl with Goff at QB has nothing to do with how well he's playing now - the list of QBs that have "led their team" to a Super Bowl is a big one, filled with equal amounts of average players and HoFers.

And unless you catch lightning in a bottle like the Rams did with Warner, you're not going to get a QB to replace him without severely hampering this team's ability to restock its talent through the draft and free agency. Pining for Watson to be on this team as it is now, or at least was in 2020, is wishing for something that will never be. There are only a handful of QBs in the league that would have had better results with this roster, and they are all locked up by their respective teams.


We are where we are. If you want the Rams to get back to the Super Bowl, it's the people in front of Goff you need to look at first, because even if Goff eliminates the unforced errors, he's still not going to get back to 2017-18 level with a 2019-20 OL. Get that right for next year and let's see what Goff does with it. If he still doesn't get better, then at least we can move on knowing we fixed it and gave him a chance and have it set up for the next guy in line.
 

Tano

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I agree with that all very true.
Sorry I should have worded the question better I meant besides the obvious qbs. Like the top 5-7. Anyone on your list that you like on Goffs level. Like Watson may be better than Goff the fact remains and this I have posted many times while Watson may have better overall skills Goff has accomplishments that he does not so I'd put them together? What about a guy like Carr or Stafford Prescott etc. I guess mid tier dudes.
Carr - I have seen a good to very good Carr but also a terrible Carr - I would give Goff right now a smidgen over Carr
Stafford - this is a guy I might like over Goff but some Detroit fans hate him so don't really know
Prescott - without Ezekiel he sucks - he just does not have the accuracy
You know how I feel about Murray and Jackson
Rothlisberger Brady Brees and River - yes in a heartbeat 7-10 years ago
Burrow - just not sure about him yet
Hebert - another rookie that needs to prove it
Tua - pfft - Miami might be moving on from him
Darnold - maybe if his head got straightened back on right - the Jets have so screwed up his psyche that no
No one on Washington or New York Giants
Bridgewater - he just doesn't impress since his mobility is not the same
Clevelands QB - too lazy to look up name but NO
Denver QB - no
Jacksonville QB - Minshew - haven't seen enough of him to really make a judgement
Cousins - just not a winner - so no - seen too many crap games in important games
Trubinsky - he is absolutely terrible - had a good stretch against bad teams but no
New England - you have seen what they have done at QB
Tannehill - saw what he did against Baltimore and so No
Ryan - that is definitely a possibility
Wentz/Hurtz - not impressed with either

So out of all the other QBs - maybe Ryan and Stafford with a heads on straight Darnold as a possible runner up

None of the other QBs have shown me anything that Goff doesn't already have especially if Goff gets an above average Center.
 

Tano

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Carr - I have seen a good to very good Carr but also a terrible Carr - I would give Goff right now a smidgen over Carr
Stafford - this is a guy I might like over Goff but some Detroit fans hate him so don't really know
Prescott - without Ezekiel he sucks - he just does not have the accuracy
You know how I feel about Murray and Jackson
Rothlisberger Brady Brees and River - yes in a heartbeat 7-10 years ago
Burrow - just not sure about him yet
Hebert - another rookie that needs to prove it
Tua - pfft - Miami might be moving on from him
Darnold - maybe if his head got straightened back on right - the Jets have so screwed up his psyche that no
No one on Washington or New York Giants
Bridgewater - he just doesn't impress since his mobility is not the same
Clevelands QB - too lazy to look up name but NO
Denver QB - no
Jacksonville QB - Minshew - haven't seen enough of him to really make a judgement
Cousins - just not a winner - so no - seen too many crap games in important games
Trubinsky - he is absolutely terrible - had a good stretch against bad teams but no
New England - you have seen what they have done at QB
Tannehill - saw what he did against Baltimore and so No
Ryan - that is definitely a possibility
Wentz/Hurtz - not impressed with either

So out of all the other QBs - maybe Ryan and Stafford with a heads on straight Darnold as a possible runner up

None of the other QBs have shown me anything that Goff doesn't already have especially if Goff gets an above average Center.
Oh I would rate Goff tied for around 8 right now with about 5 other QBs in rating QBs based on the above just as an FYI
 

payote75

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Carr - I have seen a good to very good Carr but also a terrible Carr - I would give Goff right now a smidgen over Carr
Stafford - this is a guy I might like over Goff but some Detroit fans hate him so don't really know
Prescott - without Ezekiel he sucks - he just does not have the accuracy
You know how I feel about Murray and Jackson
Rothlisberger Brady Brees and River - yes in a heartbeat 7-10 years ago
Burrow - just not sure about him yet
Hebert - another rookie that needs to prove it
Tua - pfft - Miami might be moving on from him
Darnold - maybe if his head got straightened back on right - the Jets have so screwed up his psyche that no
No one on Washington or New York Giants
Bridgewater - he just doesn't impress since his mobility is not the same
Clevelands QB - too lazy to look up name but NO
Denver QB - no
Jacksonville QB - Minshew - haven't seen enough of him to really make a judgement
Cousins - just not a winner - so no - seen too many crap games in important games
Trubinsky - he is absolutely terrible - had a good stretch against bad teams but no
New England - you have seen what they have done at QB
Tannehill - saw what he did against Baltimore and so No
Ryan - that is definitely a possibility
Wentz/Hurtz - not impressed with either

So out of all the other QBs - maybe Ryan and Stafford with a heads on straight Darnold as a possible runner up

None of the other QBs have shown me anything that Goff doesn't already have especially if Goff gets an above average Center.

That was awesome I agree with pretty much everything there. That's good shit and very much appreciated. That's a thinking man's post makes me get into my own head. Love it!!!
 

BonifayRam

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Re-sign as many defensive players as we can, and then draft O-Line. We need it, bad.
Don't just drafted Ram OL'ers sit for 3 to 4 seasons till they learn where to line up & how to understand what they are supposed to do? Then they depart & leave for free agency elsewhere with no wear or tear & the sidewalls still have the rubber tits on them.
 

Tano

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Don't just drafted Ram OL'ers sit for 3 to 4 seasons till they learn where to line up & how to understand what they are supposed to do? Then they depart & leave for free agency elsewhere with no wear or tear & the sidewalls still have the rubber tits on them.
It's a possibility but what else can you do if you can't sign any free agent OL.

Sometimes you can get a Diamond in the Rough.

Two centers in this years draft in the 3rd round or later are starting and are doing better than Blythe. And another center in Washington drafted in the 6th round took a year to learn and is doing quite well now

I would just make it a point to draft one OL in the first 4 rounds every year. And keep hoping for the best. Sometimes you might hit the jackpot and be able to resign them at a home team discount.
 

Merlin

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There are only a handful of QBs in the league that would have had better results with this roster,
I disagree with this. And if Goff had played well enough for that to be true we would not be having this conversation.
 

Tano

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I disagree with this. And if Goff had played well enough for that to be true we would not be having this conversation.
Name them

I did mine - I would like to see your list and your explanation why

I am honestly curious to see your point of view and am not trying to demean your statement in any way
 

thirteen28

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I disagree with this. And if Goff had played well enough for that to be true we would not be having this conversation.

Name them

I did mine - I would like to see your list and your explanation why

I am honestly curious to see your point of view and am not trying to demean your statement in any way

What Tano said.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few - as they were this year - but not many. Mahomes and Rodgers no doubt. Watson very highly likely. Maybe Brady, although he doesn't have the arm strength he used to and would unlikely be more accurate than Goff (and likely less) on deep balls. I might disagree with Tano a bit on Tannehill, he might have been able to.

None of the rookie starters could have done it. Matt Ryan? He possibly could have. Darnold? I've seen nothing to indicate that he would have done better or even as good as Goff in the present situation. Derek Carr is more of a roller coaster than Goff, even in better circumstances. Which Derek Carr are we talking about, given that he's like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates.

Dak? When healthy, he's done less with more talent around him - including his greater mobility and a monster OL. Big Ben? See his playoff game against Cleveland (and imagine the wrath Goff would face with a similar performance). Brees? 10 years ago yes, the past few with his noodle arm, no. Cousins? What Tano said - he's shit the bed in way too many important game, and despite his ability, seems to mostly be on teams that hover around 8-8 (Fisher would have loved him!). Wentz has regressed badly and isn't anywhere near Goff's level at the present. Hurts has never got there. Bridgewater? JAG. Minshew - JAG who, as I said in another post, should be on TV playing a narcotics detective who flaunts the rules a lot.

It's not because there are a lot of guys out there that would have elevated this team about its surrounding talent, it's because people wish there were. But when you look at the list Tano provided, you begin to see that there are really only a handful of guys that would have definitely made this team better.
 

Merlin

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Name them

I did mine - I would like to see your list and your explanation why

I am honestly curious to see your point of view and am not trying to demean your statement in any way
Ok fine. And btw I try not to do this because I don't particularly enjoy bashing on our QB. There's a difference IMO in observing where he came up short (which I have on many many occasions not like anyone's interested in hearing it though of course) and posting mean shit against him. This is not something I feel good doing so remember that you asked.

Let's start with a list based on 2020 passer ratings courtesy of the football database.

Rogers. No brainer.
Watson. No brainer.
Mahomes. No brainer.
Allen. No brainer.
Tannehill. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Brees. No brainer.
Wilson. No brainer.
Cousins. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Brady. No brainer.
Carr. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Jackson. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Herbert. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Rivers. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Stafford. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.
Mayfield. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.
Minshew. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Fitzpatrick. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Murray. Had more time throw per snap than Goff but adds mobility.
Roethlisberger. Less time to throw per snap than Goff.
Trubitsky. Probably would have struggled more than Goff.
Ryan. Top ten best performances under pressure this year.

The problem here is fans don't realize how poor Goff's play was this season. It was the problem after the Miami game and it is still a problem on all the Rams sites.

Another problem is that fans don't realize recognizing how bad his play was doesn't mean they hate him.