The Goff-season Thread

[MachS]

When it come to win and losses he was far better and its not even close.

Do you even read what you write and understand the context of the conversation? You have to be 12 years old right? Your posts literally contain zero logic. It's actually beyond laughable your lack of football knowledge.

Keep arguing Watsons W/L record, no one on this forum takes you seriously.

 

[thirteen28]

I'm not talking hindsight here. I'm saying the Rams' desire to lock up elite players early has bit us over and over now. There is still room for Goff to rebound of course but the trend is clear and it's pissing me off. Here's hoping the Rams quit that shit.

You hope they quit that shit now, sure. But what happens when we don't lock up a guy early and he walks, like London Fletcher? I don't know any Rams fan at the time that wished we hadn't locked him up before he left a giant hole in the middle of our D.

Extending a guy early is as much of a risk as not extending them at all. The Rams were trying to lock up guys who had performed at a very high level, and I'm not going to fault them for that.

 

[Giles]

Do you even read what you write and understand the context of the conversation? You have to be 12 years old right? Your posts literally contain zero logic. It's actually beyond laughable your lack of football knowledge.

Keep arguing Watsons W/L record, no one on this forum takes you seriously.

Says the guy hurling insults. Again feel free to scroll past my post or better yet put me on ignore.

 

[MachS]

You cant be serious with this right? W/L is the most important stat in football. If Watson was truly top 5 then his team wouldn't have been 4-12. He would've elevated the team to more than just 4 wins.

I have to quote this again because its the worst take so far of 2021. Can't wait to see what you come up with next.

You dont understand football.

 

[Merlin]

If that's the case that's a very huge fuck up and he's had plenty of those in his young career. But his w/l record just makes his mistakes more forgiving.

Happens all the time. Happened to SF in fact. Might yet happen to Arizona depending on how their QB develops. Again the problem was the rush to lock his ass up early. Fix that going forward and that will help.

And whether that's the case we will see. Goff has more than enough talent to win any competition they throw at him and show he belongs with a strong bounceback season. That is my hope.

 

[jrry32]

I watched Minshew some in the past two years and I like him. Not just box score scouting.

Watson was arguably a top 5 QB this year and he went 4-12 which is a dead giveaway that wins and losses should mostly be ignored when evaluating a QB - Minshew played really well this year, even in some losses.

Should offensive success be ignored? I like Minshew too, but the guy has not been better than Goff. Our offense finished #11 in PPG and #7 in YPG in 2019 with a shitty running game. The 2019 Jaguars finished 26th in PPG and 20th in YPG. And this year, Minshew had good moments, but he wasn't better than Goff. There's a reason they left him on the bench for guys like Mike Glennon and Jake Luton. To some degree, it was because they were tanking. But to another degree, it was because Minshew was not overly effective after the first two games. The Jaguars scored 16 or less points in 5 of his 7 games after his first two games (which were good).

I think we have more talent and better coaching. That leads me to believe we could get more out of Minshew. But it's bullshit to try and claim he has been better than Goff over the past two years. It's box score scouting at its finest.

I meant prime Dalton - that's essentially who Goff is these past two years. Was he better the two years prior? Definitely. But two years is a long time in the NFL and I'd rather not rely on him getting back to that form, especially when we likely won't be able to upgrade the offense as much as he will need it to be upgraded.

I'd much rather we rely on Goff returning to a form he has already shown than gamble on guys who haven't shown anything close to that ability.

Fair take. My own is similar actually. I think cap-wise given that we just signed Goff that McVay won't cut bait with him this offseason. And the competition route is just common sense. The best case scenario is Goff rebounds with a huge year and we're all happy.

But... Another area where I'm a bit fringe here is that I think McVay's preference in his QBs may not match Goff's strengths. I am of the mind that McVay wants intelligence, quick processing, and hyper competitiveness in his signal caller. I don't think he needs a super elite type of QB and IMO like with Shanny he's a guy who can win with a bit less at the position.

That is why I like Minshew for competition. I think he's the right fit for McVay based on the above.

And I'd also draft a round 4 range QB prospect. Someone like Ehlinger who is a bigger version of Wolford. He's a project which is fine that's what I think Snead needs to look for.

My sense with Shanny is that he doesn't want less at QB. They've dealt with less because Jimmy hasn't become the QB they expected him to be. Shanny is reportedly looking into going after one of the top QB prospects this year.

 

[Merlin]

You hope they quit that shit now, sure. But what happens when we don't lock up a guy early and he walks, like London Fletcher? I don't know any Rams fan at the time that wished we hadn't locked him up before he left a giant hole in the middle of our D.

Extending a guy early is as much of a risk as not extending them at all. The Rams were trying to lock up guys who had performed at a very high level, and I'm not going to fault them for that.

The Patriots have been doing that for years with great success. If a guy is freaking out and making noise about his contract early they move him.

Now there would have to be outliers of course on a case by case basis. Donald for example. But we could easily have eliminated some of the nonsense we've seen by making guys play under that first contract for the duration.

 

[Ram_Rally]

You cant be serious with this right? W/L is the most important stat in football. If Watson was truly top 5 then his team wouldn't have been 4-12. He would've elevated the team to more than just 4 wins. The only reason brady is considered the goat by many is because of wins.

Which is exactly why Brady is overrated. Best coach ever. Historically easy division. Fantastic coordinators. I'm not making a point about Watson. Just that Brady is overrated in terms of goat conversations lol

 

[Giles]

Which is exactly why Brady is overrated. Best coach ever. Historically easy division. Fantastic coordinators. I'm not making a point about Watson. Just that Brady is overrated in terms of goat conversations lol

I agree. I think Marino is a top 5 qb of all time but many dont think so because of championships. His numbers at the time were outrageous. But I get it winning is the most important stat in sports not just football.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Yep. People don't see this, but there is no two ways about it. Our cap situation next year is worse if we get rid of Goff - no matter how we do it - than if we keep him. If our cap situation is worse, it makes it all that much harder to fix the OL.

Simply put, our best bet this year is to do what we can to fix the OL. If we successfully fix it and Goff stays the same or regresses further, we can move on without nearly as much in cap hit and we at least have addressed that issue and will set up whoever the next QB is for success. If Goff's play improves with that of a fixed OL, then we don't need to move on.

And if the OL isn't fixed? Well, we'll have to evaluate Goff in that context. I think the biggest thing is for him to reduce unforced turnovers, which seems to be the biggest knock on his play this year.

I don't see it, because it's not true. Not if Goff is traded anyway. Trading him nets the Rams $12.4 million in cap savings in 2021 and $32.6 million in cap savings in 2022.

 

[12intheBox]

I don't see it, because it's not true. Not if Goff is traded anyway. Trading him nets the Rams $12.4 million in cap savings in 2021 and $32.6 million in cap savings in 2022.

I smell an Aqib Talib type trade

what will we have to give a team to take him?

 

[Memphis Ram]

I smell an Aqib Talib type trade

what will we have to give a team to take him?

I don't think so. Goff is still an average to above average QB. And supply vs. demand tells me that if the Rams wanted to deal him they could get decent compensation for his services, though some of it might have to be conditional.

 

[jrry32]

I smell an Aqib Talib type trade

what will we have to give a team to take him?

We're going to give up something of value to get rid of a two-time Pro Bowl QB who has led us to over 40 wins and a Super Bowl appearance over the past four years? C'mon.

 

[Memphis Ram]

It's still a TEAM sport.

Lets say that Jared Goff is an above average QB.
Let's say Gardner Minshew is only a solid QB, but a better fit for what McVay appears to want at the position.

If the organization believes the above statements to be true, then which QB helps the TEAM more?

The above average QB taking up $34.6 million against the salary cap?
OR
The solid QB with a $850,000 cap number PLUS the cap savings & compensation received via a Goff trade?

 

[jacktheripper85]

Which is exactly why Brady is overrated. Best coach ever. Historically easy division. Fantastic coordinators. I'm not making a point about Watson. Just that Brady is overrated in terms of goat conversations lol

Overrated? Lol. As a disclaimer to the following I can’t stand Tom Brady and despise the Patriots. Having said that he is absolutely the GOAT-in terms of athletic ability and natural talent-no. But as a winner-not even close.

The guy is 43 yrs old and is playing in his 15 championship game. That’s right-15th. I can’t even fathom that. Easy division? Ok, then explain his record against the NFC (65-20). Plenty of opportunities for teams to knock him out in the playoffs-couldn’t get it done so if anyone wants to complain about the division he played in explain his record outside of the division.

Great coaches-obviously Belechick but outside of him you could argue that Brady made those coaches around him look good based on their track record once they left the Patriots. Josh McDaniel-lol. The guys a clown.

How about the talent around him? For the most part the guys thrown the ball to a bunch of mid round WRs. When he did get a talent like Moss he put up insane numbers and basically obliterated every team he faced. Can’t remember the last time he’s had a big time RB either. The guys adjusted to the talent around him every year-whether it be his TEs, WRs or RBs the guy always knows who to throw the ball to no matter the talent around him. As a side note how about him making his OL look better. He made a lot of his lineman millionaires when they left the Pats and most of them played like shit with their new teams.


Like I said-I can’t stand that smug faced fuck but I respect the work he puts in-not many guys work harder than him to be the best. I wish our QB who has more natural ability would spend half the time Brady puts in trying to win championships.

 

[IBruce80]

Goff seems quite upbeat.

 

[dieterbrock]

The solid QB with a $850,000 cap number PLUS the cap savings & compensation received via a Goff trade?

That's called double dipping
If Goff plays in 2021, he hits the Cap for 34 mill, if traded, they get hit with a 22 mill cap hit. Add in Minshew's 850k and you are basically paying 23 mill for Minshew to be QB vs Goff.
No thanks

 

[FrantikRam]

You cant be serious with this right? W/L is the most important stat in football. If Watson was truly top 5 then his team wouldn't have been 4-12. He would've elevated the team to more than just 4 wins. The only reason brady is considered the goat by many is because of wins.

Dead serious. It makes zero sense to credit one player with wins and losses when they play half the snaps in the game. Watson was the perfect example of that - his numbers are fantastic and the offensive production they had was very good.

Not a soul on the planet can logically argue that Mitch Trubisky/Nick Foles were better than Watson, yet the Bears won twice as many games as the Texans.

Wins and losses are what matters most but it's impossible for one player to win a game, which makes it a team stat, not a player stat.

 

[jrry32]

It's still a TEAM sport.

Lets say that Jared Goff is an above average QB.
Let's say Gardner Minshew is only a solid QB, but a better fit for what McVay appears to want at the position.

If the organization believes the above statements to be true, then which QB helps the TEAM more?

The above average QB taking up $34.6 million against the salary cap?
OR
The solid QB with a $850,000 cap number PLUS the cap savings & compensation received via a Goff trade?

It depends on the compensation. But personally, I'd rather run it back with Goff next year. I'm not opposed to acquiring Minshew in case Goff doesn't step it up.

Dead serious. It makes zero sense to credit one player with wins and losses when they play half the snaps in the game. Watson was the perfect example of that - his numbers are fantastic and the offensive production they had was very good.

Not a soul on the planet can logically argue that Mitch Trubisky/Nick Foles were better than Watson, yet the Bears won twice as many games as the Texans.

Wins and losses are what matters most but it's impossible for one player to win a game, which makes it a team stat, not a player stat.

Eh, Houston's offensive numbers were actually fairly average (outside of yards per play, oddly enough). You're right that wins and losses can't be attributed to a single player. But neither can alleged "individual stats." It's a team game.

 

[Ballhawk]

Guys, in my mind it has to be one of two things.
Either Goff is a pro bowl QB that just needs a better Oline and we would be crazy to trade him.
Or Goff is a slightly above average QB or worse and in that case who would in their right minds trade for him and his contract?

Either way he is a Ram next year.