The Goff-season Thread

[TexasRam]

Goff gutted it out last week and this week and wasn’t bad in either game. But he didn’t have a good year, and that makes 2 years in a row where he was just a guy out there or worse, a liability.

if we were paying him 3rd tier QB money that would be one thing - but we aren’t.

this offense needs a qb who can process quickly and who can move a bit.

I think I’m ready to see what else is out there.

Rodgers was just a guy out there watching Goff win a Championship 2 years ago. Then they rebuilt his Oline.

 

[XXXIVwin]

McVay is an offensive genius, it's sad that he can't adapt his offense to play to his quarterbacks strength. He seems to not value a good OL as much as he should. In 2018 we had a good line and a deep threat and Goff was good. Maybe if we invested in those areas, Goff would be good again.
WE trade away a top pick for a WR and he doesn't work out and we trade him away the next year. We trade away another top pick for a WR again, sign him to a contract deserving of a #1 receiver and end up eating his contract. We resign a RB long before we have to, we make him the highest paid back ever, then we eat his contract.
Then we use our top picks on a RB and WR and don't invest enough in our line. Then when our offense fails we blame it on our QB that we gave up quite a bit to acquire and resign him to a huge contract. Seems like we have a huge problem with signing our players. There is a lot of blame to go around.

I have no problem whatsoever with the Rams moves to sign Cooks and Gurley. At the time, most all of us were sky-high with those signings.

But Cooks got a series of concussions and Gurley’s knees went to crap. Neither of these could have been foreseen.

So yeah, when two of your big-ticket star players develop career-threatening injuries, it’s gonna mess with your salary cap.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Why? You can cap the amount teams are allowed to go over and it's football there are no teams that lose money. So if a greedy owner wants to fail his fan base that's on them. For instance if the cap was supposed to be 212 this year but your allowed up to 230 not like 300 but 230 and if you go over the 212 the luxury tax kicks in. It just provides flexibility and after this pandemic it could get players more money but it can also make owners more money as the tax is divided amongst themselves.

Do you pay attention when the players are fighting for more money and the owners fight to give them less money during cba discussions? The owners aren't paying a cent more than they have to.

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[Gandalf]

I have no problem whatsoever with the Rams moves to sign Cooks and Gurley. At the time, most all of us were sky-high with those signings.

But Cooks got a series of concussions and Gurley’s knees went to crap. Neither of these could have been foreseen.

So yeah, when two of your big-ticket star players develop career-threatening injuries, it’s gonna mess with your salary cap.

They signed Cooks to a contract deserving of the best WR in the league, with $50mil guaranteed. At he time of the signing I do believe it was top 3 in the league. He is a good receiver but didn't deserve that.

They resigned Gurley a year or two earlier than they needed to and paid him the largest contract ever for a RB. Most of his contract was guaranteed even though they knew he had knee problems when they drafted him.

Once again, they signed Goff a year or two early and gave him top QB money with a lot of it guaranteed.

 

[payote75]

Do you pay attention when the players are fighting for more money and the owners fight to give them less money during cba discussions? The owners aren't paying a cent more than they have to.

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Ummm must you always start your replies sounding so condescending as if only you know anything about anything. Do you know how a luxury tax works. It can create more money for anyone and for the teams or owners that don't mind going over to pay players it puts money in the pocket of those that only care about money. If done correctly it could creat more money for everyone and it does not have to be a huge window. It was just an idea and I like getting feed back from people with actual input not condescending talking down to as if I'm stupid. Christ!

 

[XXXIVwin]

They signed Cooks to a contract deserving of the best WR in the league, with $50mil guaranteed. At he time of the signing I do believe it was top 3 in the league. He is a good receiver but didn't deserve that.

They resigned Gurley a year or two earlier than they needed to and paid him the largest contract ever for a RB. Most of his contract was guaranteed even though they knew he had knee problems when they drafted him.

Once again, they signed Goff a year or two early and gave him top QB money with a lot of it guaranteed.

Guess we can agree to disagree.

At the time of the Cooks signing, I remember thinking it was a relative bargain... Sammy Watkins signed for far more APY and had way less production. And McVay was crazy for Cooks. Without those concussions, Cooks would still be a star player for us, and at a reasonable contract IMHO.

The Gurley signing IMHO was the most questionable. Rams were trying to establish themselves as a high-quality organization that would be considered desirable to free agents. So yeah they paid him early, but he sure looked like a star at the time, and he didn’t seem to have any knee problems in the NFL

As for Goff (as it was for Gurley), the key question is— are you gonna sign a star player to a long term contract, or are you gonna risk letting it play out until free agency and risk losing him to the highest bidder? THAT of course is the key behind all of these decisions.

All I’m saying is, all of these decisions can be questioned with 20/20 hindsight. By and large, McVay and Snead and Demoff have IMHO done an excellent job of being aggressive and smart with roster building, through FA, trades, and the draft.

They have not been lacking for boldness, that’s for damn sure. And yeah, some of their decisions have backfired IMHO because of bad luck, not because of bad decision making.

We’ve backed up the Brinks truck for both AD and Ramsey. Both have signed long term contracts for crazy money.

Cooks and Gurley got hurt, while AD and Ramsey have stayed almost completely healthy. In my mind, that’s really the only difference.

just my 2 cents

 

[Giles]

McVay is an offensive genius, it's sad that he can't adapt his offense to play to his quarterbacks strength. He seems to not value a good OL as much as he should. In 2018 we had a good line and a deep threat and Goff was good. Maybe if we invested in those areas, Goff would be good again.
WE trade away a top pick for a WR and he doesn't work out and we trade him away the next year. We trade away another top pick for a WR again, sign him to a contract deserving of a #1 receiver and end up eating his contract. We resign a RB long before we have to, we make him the highest paid back ever, then we eat his contract.
Then we use our top picks on a RB and WR and don't invest enough in our line. Then when our offense fails we blame it on our QB that we gave up quite a bit to acquire and resign him to a huge contract. Seems like we have a huge problem with signing our players. There is a lot of blame to go around.

I dont think mcvay has a problem developing a offense around goff Strength. The problem is goff Strength is pushing the ball down the field which we cant do because the line doesn't hold up long enough to let routes develop.

 

[Rams77]

I wish the NFL and NFLPA would just ammend the players agreement with a luxury tax type thing allowing teams to go over the cap it's more money for the players and more money for the owners. Nfl isn't the NBA teams don't pick up and move because they aren't makimg it financially. The luxury tax and I'm no financial analyst is just a better system to me. And if you structure it right it still will keep parity.

No thanks-The NBA system is horseshit. You will have more primadonnas trying to dictate where they want to play. Too much Player empowerment is bad for competitive balance. I love the hard cap. The NFL model is as close to perfection as there is

 

[kurtfaulk]

Ummm must you always start your replies sounding so condescending as if only you know anything about anything. Do you know how a luxury tax works. It can create more money for anyone and for the teams or owners that don't mind going over to pay players it puts money in the pocket of those that only care about money. If done correctly it could creat more money for everyone and it does not have to be a huge window. It was just an idea and I like getting feed back from people with actual input not condescending talking down to as if I'm stupid. Christ!

I had no idea i always sound condescending?

All i know is that when the owners thought they didn't get a good deal in the cba, ie - they were paying the players too much money, they terminated it and locked the players out until they got a better deal.

I don't see them paying a cent over the cap.

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[payote75]

I had no idea i always sound condescending?

All i know is that when the owners thought they didn't get a good deal in the cba, ie - they were paying the players too much money, they terminated it and locked the players out until they got a better deal.

I don't see them paying a cent over the cap.

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Most condescending people don't but thank you for your feedback ie that's why I said it would be great for both of them to revisit while you may pay players more within a small window like a cap increase of 15 million it also creates a tax revenue putting money in teams pockets.

 

[payote75]

The only way the Rams can get Watson is if indeed he has a no trade clause and states he will only go to the Rams. A lot of players seem to be doing this in all sports handcuffing there current team. That would be ideal then draft big bodies and a deep threat or get a John Ross on the cheap. H could thrive with our current recievers and Watson . Or scrap that and take all of your money and try to build the perfect offensive line that are better than just the point of attack but can hold a pocket. Seems cheaper the other way but I just want to win. Did not think it was possible but now more than ever for AD. His window at his level won't stay open forever.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Most condescending people don't but thank you for your feedback ie that's why I said it would be great for both of them to revisit while you may pay players more within a small window like a cap increase of 15 million it also creates a tax revenue putting money in teams pockets.

Well, generally, when I'm being condescending i know it because I'm replying to somebody bashing a rams player or the Rams with irrational blabber.

Don't hate me.

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[Gandalf]

I dont think mcvay has a problem developing a offense around goff Strength. The problem is goff Strength is pushing the ball down the field which we cant do because the line doesn't hold up long enough to let routes develop.

Part of developing that offense is building an OL strong enough to make it all work. He has failed to do that and the offense doesn't work. He needs to fix the line.

 

[ProGen]

This game went pretty much how I thought - I envisioned Rodgers carving our D up, and I envisioned our offense not being able to keep up, with the limited number of possessions we had. We are no longer built to score a lot of points, or score TD's with high efficiency.

I'm not sure we will ever be able to surround Goff with enough talent, in order for us to secure a SB. Hopefully I am wrong...but I have always felt he would need a top 5 D, a top 5 O-line, and a top 5 running game in order for us to have a chance at securing a SB win. He had a bad year this year, and he HAS to be better next year, for us to have any chance. There are too many good teams in this league for our offense to play at this level, and expect success.

Goff did well to gut it out last week, and he did ok today (considering the implosion by the D, and the intermittent O-Line issues), so we shall see what coach McVay thinks going forward. None of us have a crystal ball.

 

[XXXIVwin]

No thanks-The NBA system is horseshit. You will have more primadonnas trying to dictate where they want to play. Too much Player empowerment is bad for competitive balance. I love the hard cap. The NFL model is as close to perfection as there is

Totally agree. Parity in the NFL is great.

However...

Selfishly I’d love it if the NFL adopted the NBA model right now, because it would give an unfair advantage to our Rams. Big-market city, glitz and glamor of LA, the wunderkind coach, and ultra-billionaire owner? Damn right the prima donna players would manipulate things to join the Rams.

Remind me, how did this unfair system work out for the Lakers last year... ?

 

[tempests]

FWIW, Plaschke(who never misses an opportunity to rip Goff) was actually semi-complimentary of him after the game. His take on McVay's comments was that the Rams will emphasize QB competition over the offseason and into next year over shipping Goff out of town.

i.e. Goff will remain the team's starter but his position is not as secure as it has been.

 

[The Ramowl]

You know everyone has been here saying "Goff can only be good when everything works for him, he needs an OL and running game".
Yet everyone is here praising Rodgers as the second coming on a year where, surprise surprise, he has a very good running game and an insanely good O-Line.
I don't think 2018 Goff is gone forever, but what we know he hasn't gotten a combinaison of reliable running game and consistent O-line since.

I really hope we don't sell the farm to get Watson, because I don't think he will solve our problems. Akers is our running back for the next 2 years, get Goff an oline and a deep threat and you'll see, we'll start putting up 35-40 points on the regular.

 

[dieterbrock]

that’s your projection

I addressed that. What he said was such a shock that the reporters asked no more questions and the guy asking the question didn’t follow up further.

Its not my projection, its what happened, "Bill" clearly was allowed one last question. Which was about Goff. McVay spoke highly of his play, and answered. Then the question of QB going forward was squeezed in, and he gave the Goff is the QB blah blah answer. There were no more questions, his spot was over. ITs clear as day if you watch it, I guess you didnt hear the entire presser. McVay answered questions, was about to leave. Said thank you and started getting up. (7:57 mark) The let Eric asked a quick question, which was about Akers. "Can we let Bill in for one last one and then we'll wrap up?" (8:56 mark)
The answer didnt leave them speechless, John Johnson was next to speak

 

[dieterbrock]

I got the impression that McVay was noticeably lukewarm in his praise of Goff today. Goff played well enough that McVay *could* have sung his praises. For me, it’s a question of tone... “Goff did a nice job” is pretty tepid, especially compared to how McVay gushed about Wolford as “the star offensively.”

"He did a good job today" was what McVay said at the end, after reiterating everything he had already said about Goff. Really not sure how he was lukewarm.
As for the comparison to Wolford? They just won the game, secured the playoff spot and were on top of the world, as opposed to getting their ass kicked, season is over and he's obviously mentally exhausted. There's no gushing about anything after that loss

 

[Ramit]

Kind of unprofessional given the last two performances Goff put in with a broken thumb and no pass protection. Goff was great tonight.

I'm not sure Goff is the answer long term, but he is a starting calibre QB. And he should be that for many years to come given his age and style as a pocket passer. Team can go 10+ years looking for a legitimate starter. We don't have much draft capital, won't pick high enough in the foreseeable future to get a franchise guy, and great QBs are rarely if ever available via trade or free agency. Be careful what you wish for.

Cap wise, we likely can't move off Goff until the year after next anyway. Build the o-line. Goff needs it as a pocket passer. If we later move on, then a great o-line still sets up the next guy nicely. The game is won and lost in the trenches.

I think McVay is a good, not great, coach who has a real arrogance problem. Maybe I am wrong. But I think he's too arrogant to look in the mirror and thinks Goff is the only reason his offense was ineffective all year. Boy, is he in for a rude awakening...

I don't think that McVay is arrogant at all my man....

I think that he definitely has a lot of passion for the game...I think that he enjoyed a lot of success at an early age so it would be understandable to think he may be....
HOWEVER, look at this team now compared to the first playoff game that we had under McVay.

Do you see the vastness of difference?

I'd say that McVay is humble.

Humble enough that his team is the opposite of what he wants deep down in his heart.

Do you think that ignoring the Oline was simply an oversight? Or was it an intentional calculation based upon limited financial resources and draft capital?

Before anyone criticizes McVay or Snead for that choice, ask yourself this....do we get as far in a rebuild year with an above-average-but-not-elite oline, or with a #1 D?

Arrogance isn't the word, bird.