Snead: We expect to get Tavon more involved in the passing game

[V3]

If T.Austin becomes a Pro bowl punt returner and the Rams make it to the playoffs no one will care where he was drafted three years ago.

I most certainly will. The thought of trading two top picks for a PR-very good or not- is horrible value. Making the playoffs is a separate matter from Tavon's PR prowess.

 

[Varg6]

Regardless of if we are more of a running team, if we utilize a guy like Tavon who is dangerous in the slot, teams are going to have to account for his speed and Britt/Quick's physicality which will subsequently take pressure off the run game. Maybe TA was over drafted but I think we have arguably the most dangerous KR/PR in the league and can do significant damage to teams after the catch. If we are winning this year and continue to improve each year, who cares where the guy was drafted?

 

[Robocop]

I think the question people have is will Austin be able to consistently shake his man at the LOS to get downfield and be open enough to catch a long pass. He isn't going to go up and out-muscle a defender. I think he can do it, and an emphasis on running will help, but that's a legit question.

I think he can do it too he obviously has no probably with getting physical. he had a number of good to great games with Sam as a rookie. Schotty set that kid up for failure since then. I expect a difference this year with scheme change. a lot of run game play action means a lot of single coverage.

 

[Hacksaw]

Run, set up pass, the pass again. Once the D sags, run then run again. Looks like the ball will move either way. That is if our line pans out.

 

[Stranger]

Goal #1: Get Gurley if he was available.
Goal #2: Add multiple quality offensive linemen.
Goal #3: Add a QB that we think has a future in the NFL

Check.
Check.
Check.
Now, Win NFCW

 

[Mackeyser]

When Philly pounded the ball, the LBs queued on the RB and that play action was deadly. Tavon on a slant could easily become a very long play because the only guy he'd have to beat is maybe a safety.

Foles has the touch and height to find Tavon. This season should be interesting in that regard.

 

[Stranger]

That's a good point. A 1-2 punch of Gurley/Mason could soften up the D, get them cheating to the line, and make the (fewer) passing opportunities for bigger chunks. TA is deadly if he can get off the line and the safety is cheating in to stop the run.

exactly

 

[Big Game]

What they did in the draft wasn't going in a new direction IMHO, it was filling in the weakness, adding to what we already have, balancing the team.

I'm not buying into the idea that the Rams will be run heavy. It ignores the passing potential on this team. Foles has a propensity to throw long "go up and get it" passes. You don't grab Foles and Mannion if you don't want to throw bombs.

If we are going to win ANY of the first 6 games, we will need the pass. The O line will be getting tested and working out the kinks, Gurley probably won't be playing or lightly used, and the Rams have a stable of big play pass catchers. I'm not ignoring that TM is a good rusher behind a freshly minted run blocking O-line, I'm just also not ignoring the pass potential of this team.

My guess is, regardless of intentions, the Rams find they can kill with the pass early in the season and it becomes a balanced attack. I see pass heavy play calling early in games and a switch to run heavy after we have a solid lead. Eat up the clock, let the defense do its thing and take the ball back. If it becomes a run heavy team, it will be great because it will mean we are leading early and wining games, IMO.

I totally agree with what you just said. In fact i was telling a friend that they may return to that 2013 hybrid spread offense.

Think about it the only reason that offense didn't work was due to the fact that we could never run the ball effectively enough to spread the defense out. At that time we ran the ball with Richardson.

Now by adding Gurley/Mason in the backfield we could effectively spread teams out by going 3 or 4 WR's . If you stack the box then you leave the WR's and TE's with one on one matchups. If you cover the WR's and don't stack the box Gurley and Mason will eat up the defense.

And like you mentioned we have actually passed more then we have ran it. I think that trend continues this year only now we will be able to close out teams with the run.

 

[V3]

Regardless of if we are more of a running team, if we utilize a guy like Tavon who is dangerous in the slot, teams are going to have to account for his speed and Britt/Quick's physicality which will subsequently take pressure off the run game. Maybe TA was over drafted but I think we have arguably the most dangerous KR/PR in the league and can do significant damage to teams after the catch. If we are winning this year and continue to improve each year, who cares where the guy was drafted?

I'm not sure why you're saying he's dangerous in the slot. In order to be dangerous in the slot, you have to be able to run precise routes. He hasn't. I hope he can figure it out because that's the only way he's going to be successful in the NFL.

 

[Mackeyser]

That spread stuff might come later, but first...

HULK SMASH!!!

 

[blue4]

I wouldn't call them wastes (yet).

But this is what can happen when you're not true to yourself.

Back in 2013, they decided to go in the direction of a spread offense... it was supposed to make Bradford more comfortable/effective and - with the additions of Cook, Long, Austin, Bailey, etc. - score more points.

Unfortunately, it didn't happen and, after about 5 games, Fisher pulled back the reigns and returned to the run more... some guy named Stacy emerged...

If you want to blame Fisher for anything, it might be for giving up too soon on the concept.

Now, we've done a 180 and I'm wondering how - exactly - they are going to make guys like Austin and Bailey more effective if they run the ball a lot.

Not ready to say they were wasted picks... but, with the new strategy, not sure they will become all they could be... which is a shame.

I do think he tried it too early in their careers. Half the skill players on offense were still trying to learn how to run routes. Last year they would have been ready.

Course Bradford's knee again, but what's you gonna do?

 

[Memento]

By running the ball most of the time. What a waste of two picks.

I don't know what you'd think of V-Jax or Demaryius Thomas or Jeremy Maclin, or hell, even Megatron, who's probably the best wide receiver in the game today. None of them got 1,000 yards in their first two seasons. Hell, Maclin took five years to get to 1,000 yards. V-Jax took four years. Santonio Holmes took four years. Dez Bryant took three years to get to 1,000. Roddy White? Three years. Miles Austin? Four years. Emmanuel Sanders? Five years. Eric Decker? Three years. Steve Smith Sr.? Three years. Future Hall of Famer Reggie Wayne? Four years to get to 1,000 yards and double digit touchdowns. Marvin Harrison? Four years. Cris Carter? Seven years just to get to 1,000 yards. Andre Reed? Five years. Tim Brown? Four years with a passing team in the Raiders. Art Monk? Five years. Michael Irvin? Four years. Wes Welker? Three years when he first got playing time.

Do you expect every receiver to come into the league like A.J. Green or OBJ?

 

[LACHAMP46]

For sure, Tavon will continue to run the misdirection jet sweeps and reverses.

That play is a killer in pop warner with a pounding tailback....serious

Here to being balanced and simplified....Get these O-Linemen up to speed.....

 

[CoachO]

I think the question people have is will Austin be able to consistently shake his man at the LOS to get downfield and be open enough to catch a long pass. He isn't going to go up and out-muscle a defender. I think he can do it, and an emphasis on running will help, but that's a legit question.

For me this isn't as simple as having Austin "get downfield and be open enough to catch a long pass"..... Unless he just blows by people, and as you said, he isn't going to win many contested balls in the air due to his lack of size. And the issue with that, is MOST teams play primarily zone coverage against the Rams, which means Austin will rarely find himself without a deep safety over the top providing help.

In his one real breakout game as a receiver, for whatever reason, Indianapolis played straight man to man. He, as well as Givens, killed them on crossing routes, and Austin even got behind of CB who he beat badly off the LOS. But these opportunities are few and far between.

The zone also neutralizes his speed and quickness on underneath stuff, as it forces him to settle into the soft spots (which is something to this point, has been difficult for him) making the few catches while at a stand still. They can talk all they want about making a concerted effort to get him more involved, but at some point the onus has to be on the player to make adjustments.

They envisioned Tavon Austin to be an upgrade over Danny Amendola as a threat in the slot. Logically, it was a sound thought. He is quicker, faster and was thought to be more elusive. The problem as I see it, is two fold. Austin hasn't shown the ability to make the cuts in tight speaces, that Amendola made, and his hands are suspect at best when in traffic. That was Amendola's biggest asset. He caught everything thrown in his direction.

What I have seen, is Austin is very dangerous when he is on the move. His quickness and elusiveness at full speed is unmatched. The problem is, he hasn't shown the ability to consistantly diagnose coverages, or be explosive when starting and stopping.

For him to be successful in this offense, IMO, they will need big contributions from Quick and Britt, showing they can occupy coverages on the outside, on the intermediate routes (15-18 yards), combined with a dominant rushing attack that forces teams to play an 8 man box. Forcing LBs to honor the running game, freezing them with Play-action, should in theory open up lanes BEHIND the LBs for Austin to find space on the crossing routes. Thereby, allowing him to catch the ball on the move, and not settling in has been the case in the past.

I just don't think he will ever be the type of WR who is capable of creating his own space. He just isn't physical enough to win one on one battles for the ball, and to think that he is capable of just "running deep" isn't gonna get it done. Sure, he may pop a quick slant from time to time, if he hits a seam, and they catch the defense in an all out blitz. But again, most teams will roll safety help to his side when he is on the field.

 

[Merlin]

No matter how jaded we get about hearing it over and over, it's a sound plan. The dude IS a playmaker and they need to maximize his talent through scheme. Let him run deep routes and challenge DBs so they can't roll up on him and cheat. Once they hit him deep on some play action that short stuff will be there and will also result in big plays.

The dude's skill will translate, it's usage and scheme IMO.

 

[DCH]

For me this isn't as simple as having Austin "get downfield and be open enough to catch a long pass"..... As you said, with his lack of size, unless he just blows by people, and he isn't going to win many contested balls in the air due to his lack of size. And the issue with that, is MOST teams play primarily zone coverage against the Rams, which means Austin wil rarely find himself without a deep safety over the top providing help.

In his one real breakout game as a receiver, for wahtever reason, Indianapolis played straight man to man. He, as well as Givens, killed them on crossing routes, adn Austin even got behind of CB who he beat badly off the LOS. But these opportunities are few and far between.

The zone also neutralizes his speed and quickness on underneath stuff, as it forces him to settle into the soft spots (which is something to this point, has been difficult for him) making the few catches while at a stand still. They can talk all they want tabout making a concerted effort to get him more involved, but at some point the onus has to be on the player to make adjustments.

They envisioned Tavon Austin to be an upgrade over Danny Amendola as a threat in the slot. Logically, it was a sound thought. He is quicker, faster and was thought to be more elusive. The problem as I see it, is two fold. Austin hasn't shown the ability to make the cuts in tight speaces, that Amendola made, and his hands are suspect at best when in traffic. That was Amendola's biggest asset. He caught everything thrown in his direction.

What I have seen, is Austin is very dangerous when he is on the move. His quickness and elusiveness at full speed is unmatched. The problem is, he hasn't shown the ability to consistanly diagnose coverages, or be explosive when starting and stopping.

For his to be successful in this offense, IMO, they will need big contributions from Quick and Britt, showing they can occupy coverages on the outside, on the intermediate routes (15-18 yards), combined with a dominant rushing attack that forces teams to play 8 man box. Forcing LBs to honor the running game, freezing them wiht Play-action, shou,ld in theory open up lanes BEHIND the LBs for Austin to find space on the crossing routes. Thereby, allowing him to catch the ball on the move, and not settling in has been the case in the past.

I just don't think he will ever be the type of WR who is capable of creating his own space. He just isn't physical enough to win one on one battles for the ball, and to think that ee is capable of just "running deep" isn't gonna get it done. Sure, he may pop a quick slant from time to time, if he hits a seam, and they catch the defense in an all out blitz. But again, most teams will roll safety help to his side when he is on the field.

I don't see him being a good slot guy mostly for what you mentioned - his skillset is neutralized in traffic. My thinking is that for him to be successful, he's going to have to run a lot of mid-to-deep routes where he's 1-on-1 vs. a corner and the safety is cheating in to stop Gurley/Mason. I would imagine he can jitterbug a bit off the line to get around the corner, and if he can get a yard or 2 separation, make a play on a ball. But he can be taken out via press coverage by bigger CBs, and smaller/faster CBs will just give him five to ten yards of cushion and try to force him underneath.

He has to consistently get a step on his corner, and semi-consistently not be drawing the FS over the top. That's a challenge, and hopefully a successful ground assault can open up the latter.

Either way, I am looking forward to seeing more of Britt and Quick out-physicaling folks with Bailey making the contested catches from the slot. While I think Austin could be worked in, I don't think it's necessary to focus too much on him at the expense of a better passing attack.

 

[CoachO]

I don't see him being a good slot guy mostly for what you mentioned - his skillset is neutralized in traffic. My thinking is that for him to be successful, he's going to have to run a lot of mid-to-deep routes where he's 1-on-1 vs. a corner and the safety is cheating in to stop Gurley/Mason. I would imagine he can jitterbug a bit off the line to get around the corner, and if he can get a yard or 2 separation, make a play on a ball. But he can be taken out via press coverage by bigger CBs, and smaller/faster CBs will just give him five to ten yards of cushion and try to force him underneath.

He has to consistently get a step on his corner, and semi-consistently not be drawing the FS over the top. That's a challenge, and hopefully a successful ground assault can open up the latter.

Either way, I am looking forward to seeing more of Britt and Quick out-physicaling folks with Bailey making the contested catches from the slot. While I think Austin could be worked in, I don't think it's necessary to focus too much on him at the expense of a better passing attack.

By in large, you and I are on the same page, but I just don't see him ever being isolated one on one with a CB. They will always roll a safety over the top to his side. Even with 8 man boxes.

What I can see him doing, and being very effective is attacking the seam. For example, they line both Austin and Cook up on the same side, both in the slot, so to speak. Assuming teams will be forced to go to a Nickel package, all Austin has to do is beat his man off the LOS. Now both he and Cook attack the Safety, with Cook running a deep post, and Austin running a deep fade. The Safety has to make a choice. And if they attack a Cover 2, Cook on a MLB trying to drop into the deep middle should be like stealing. Quick and Britt occupy the short zones,

This is just one example of how the scheme can make it work. But obviously, they have to create the mismatches for it to work.

 

[Memento]

I don't see him being a good slot guy mostly for what you mentioned - his skillset is neutralized in traffic. My thinking is that for him to be successful, he's going to have to run a lot of mid-to-deep routes where he's 1-on-1 vs. a corner and the safety is cheating in to stop Gurley/Mason. I would imagine he can jitterbug a bit off the line to get around the corner, and if he can get a yard or 2 separation, make a play on a ball. But he can be taken out via press coverage by bigger CBs, and smaller/faster CBs will just give him five to ten yards of cushion and try to force him underneath.

He has to consistently get a step on his corner, and semi-consistently not be drawing the FS over the top. That's a challenge, and hopefully a successful ground assault can open up the latter.

Either way, I am looking forward to seeing more of Britt and Quick out-physicaling folks with Bailey making the contested catches from the slot. While I think Austin could be worked in, I don't think it's necessary to focus too much on him at the expense of a better passing attack.

Don't be surprised to see more of Bailey on the outside if Quick struggles from the outset. Guy can flat out ball.

 

[iced]

I wouldn't call them wastes (yet).

But this is what can happen when you're not true to yourself.

Back in 2013, they decided to go in the direction of a spread offense... it was supposed to make Bradford more comfortable/effective and - with the additions of Cook, Long, Austin, Bailey, etc. - score more points.

Unfortunately, it didn't happen and, after about 5 games, Fisher pulled back the reigns and returned to the run more... some guy named Stacy emerged...

If you want to blame Fisher for anything, it might be for giving up too soon on the concept.

Now, we've done a 180 and I'm wondering how - exactly - they are going to make guys like Austin and Bailey more effective if they run the ball a lot.

Not ready to say they were wasted picks... but, with the new strategy, not sure they will become all they could be... which is a shame.

Not so much the concept as much as it was the coach and the play calling... straying from what worked..and to be honest just with some of the designs of the play at times made me really think schotty doesn't know how to run that kind of offense.

 

[CoachO]

Don't be surprised to see more of Bailey on the outside if Quick struggles from the outset. Guy can flat out ball.

and what makes you think that Quick will struggle, assuming he is healthy. Quick not being healthy yet, is the only scenario I see, where Quick isn't the better option.