Snead: We expect to get Tavon more involved in the passing game

[A55VA6]

We've seen flashes from him, no doubt about that. His big play ability with his speed and quickness can change the entire game. Tavon needs to work on his ability to separate and get open, and if he does, he could be pretty dangerous. Hopefully Cignetti and Foles will be good for him.

 

[Memento]

and what makes you think that Quick will struggle, assuming he is healthy. Quick not being healthy yet, is the only scenario I see, where Quick isn't the better option.

Because of the shoulder. What happens when he tries to dive or jump for a ball again, knowing that he'll land on his shoulder? Will he hesitate? Will he pull back? He sustained a very, very serious injury; a severe primary shoulder injury to a wide receiver is like an elbow injury to a pitcher. It takes time just to come back mentally from that. Who knows if he'll be ready physically?

I'm not saying that Quick will struggle. I'm saying if he struggles, don't be surprised to see Bailey in there.

 

[DCH]

Don't be surprised to see more of Bailey on the outside if Quick struggles from the outset. Guy can flat out ball.

I hope not... Bailey is ideally suited for the slot. He could be this Rams era's Ricky Proehl. The way he creates space underneath and finds the soft parts of the D makes him amazing at that particular WR position.

 

[Memento]

I hope not... Bailey is ideally suited for the slot. He could be this Rams era's Ricky Proehl. The way he creates space underneath and finds the soft parts of the D makes him amazing at that particular WR position.

To me, Bailey is more of an outside receiver. Ability-wise, he's a poor man's Steve Smith Sr. The way he runs routes, the way he extends his arms and plucks the ball out of the air, and his underrated speed. I'm hoping that - if Quick isn't ready to go - that we put Bailey outside instead of Givens or Sasser (if he's still on the team).

 

[DCH]

To me, Bailey is more of an outside receiver. Ability-wise, he's a poor man's Steve Smith Sr. The way he runs routes, the way he extends his arms and plucks the ball out of the air, and his underrated speed. I'm hoping that - if Quick isn't ready to go - that we put Bailey outside instead of Givens or Sasser (if he's still on the team).

I can't imagine Sasser would get reps over Austin, Givens or even Blake... not as a rookie. I would think that if Quick isn't ready, you're going to see a lot of Britt + Bailey in 2WR sets, with Bailey moving inside and Austin stepping in outside in 3WR sets. JMO of course. Also a heavy, heavy, heavy dose of Cook + Kendricks.

 

[Memento]

I can't imagine Sasser would get reps over Austin, Givens or even Blake... not as a rookie. I would think that if Quick isn't ready, you're going to see a lot of Britt + Bailey in 2WR sets, with Bailey moving inside and Austin stepping in outside in 3WR sets. JMO of course. Also a heavy, heavy, heavy dose of Cook + Kendricks.

I can't imagine it either. That's why I said, "if he's still on the team."

 

[DCH]

By the way @CoachO while I've got you in the thread, who do you like to come out of the center competition? I'm pulling for Jones - again - myself, but I know you were very high on Rhaney as a prospect last preseason. And do you happen to know if Brown or Donnal or Wichmann has any shot at snapping the ball a bit in camp to try and expand their versatility, maybe move on a C spot in the future?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Out of curiosity... I didn't like the trade-up in 2013, and wasn't that big of an Austin fan, and it sounds like neither were many of y'all. Who did you want at the time?

FWIW, I think my mocks usually looked like
16 - Vaccaro (who went 15) or Warmack or Cooper (who went top 10)... I'd have taken Jarvis Jones or Kyle Long with the way it fell
22 - Justin Hunter or Alec Ogletree (I knew they liked 'Tree. I just really thought highly of Hunter)
46 - Kiko Alonso, Arthur Brown or Larry Warford

So... I might have done pretty well on it. I'd probably have gone Jones-Hunter-Warford. Then you'd kinda have to hope McDonald dropped those extra 10 picks in the 3rd, and you likely miss out on Bailey, since I didn't have the trade-down scenario.

I wanted Warmack. I would have settled for Vaccaro or Reid. I would have taken the Vikings trade offer and landed Warford for sure. He was one of my favorite players. I liked Alonso but not with the knee. I like Arthur Brown a lot. The Tennessee WRs scared me and was not a fan of Ogletrees.

 

[Athos]

Out of curiosity... I didn't like the trade-up in 2013, and wasn't that big of an Austin fan, and it sounds like neither were many of y'all. Who did you want at the time?

Hopkins. Both 1st rounders could have been traded down and gotten Hopkins and still gotten Tree.

 

[Zaphod]

I'm not buying into the idea that the Rams will be run heavy. It ignores the passing potential on this team. Foles has a propensity to throw long "go up and get it" passes. You don't grab Foles and Mannion if you don't want to throw bombs.

So many truths in this thread. I will say this though, that if Foles is that "go up and get it" quarterback, then maybe Austin really isn't the guy, not to say that Quick and Britt aren't.

 

[V3]

No matter how jaded we get about hearing it over and over, it's a sound plan. The dude IS a playmaker and they need to maximize his talent through scheme. Let him run deep routes and challenge DBs so they can't roll up on him and cheat. Once they hit him deep on some play action that short stuff will be there and will also result in big plays.

The dude's skill will translate, it's usage and scheme IMO.

He isn't a playmaker. Playmakers make the plays, not the other way around. They don't have to have the perfect play called that is specifically designed to make him succeed. With true playmakers, you could call simple plays and they'll make it work. They'll be the one that turns it into a big play. They won't require the OC to be smarter than the other team's DC. A playmaker will be able to make play work even when the DC has the right defense called. Tavon hasn't shown he's that type of player.

Playmakers make the plays. The plays don't make the playmaker.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I agree with CoachO. Unless Tavon somehow changes his game and learns to run routes better, he wont improve at all.

Like so many here I was not a fan of the pick. If a receiver cannot get open without being 'schemed' to find him space then was he really worth a first round pick?

It is confusing with Tavons ability to turn on a dime that he cannot do it while running routes.

 

[CoachO]

By the way @CoachO while I've got you in the thread, who do you like to come out of the center competition? I'm pulling for Jones - again - myself, but I know you were very high on Rhaney as a prospect last preseason. And do you happen to know if Brown or Donnal or Wichmann has any shot at snapping the ball a bit in camp to try and expand their versatility, maybe move on a C spot in the future?

I will address the last part first. I hate the idea of thinking that a raw rookie who has never played the position before, would ever be a consideration. The primary focus of the position is all about the mental side. My thought has always been to count the Center as "half a blocker". He is there to make sure everyone is on the same page first and foremost. So, no, I doubt seriously any of the rookies will be moved.

I was fairly indifferent as far as Rhaney goes. I think he is athletic, but I just didn't see much to think he can be the answer. To me, LAST YEAR, he was the classic, rookie, who was able to be successful in college solely because he was more athletic than his competition. If he comes back this year, bigger and stronger, than yes, he can compete for the job. But IMO, he is still a year away to being a legitimate contender. He should provide depth.

So, by process of elimination, it should come down to Barnes and Jones. My personal feeling, is that it's Barnes' job to lose at this point. They have had him here for 4 years, and he is a prime example of the developmental guy, who has gotten bigger, stronger, and is the most experienced of the two. Jones will have to prove he can A) Stay healthy, and B) himself gotten bigger and stronger.

Either way, IMO, whichever guy comes out on the other side of training camp,will be good to very good. I think Fisher and Boudreau have shown they have enough confidence in both. I doubt it was ever in their plan to draft a "plug and play" rookie at this position.

 

[CoachO]

I can't imagine Sasser would get reps over Austin, Givens or even Blake... not as a rookie. I would think that if Quick isn't ready, you're going to see a lot of Britt + Bailey in 2WR sets, with Bailey moving inside and Austin stepping in outside in 3WR sets. JMO of course. Also a heavy, heavy, heavy dose of Cook + Kendricks.

Don't sell Sasser short. I think he has a chance.

It would not shock me in the least, to see him start off in camp working with the 3's, sharing reps with Givens and Blake, but eventually moving haead of both. Givens days could and should be numbered. He doesn't bring anything specialto the group.

I would venture to say, that if Quick isn't ready, you will see a combination of Britt and Austin in most of the two WR sets.

 

[Zaphod]

To me, Bailey is more of an outside receiver. Ability-wise, he's a poor man's Steve Smith Sr. The way he runs routes, the way he extends his arms and plucks the ball out of the air, and his underrated speed. I'm hoping that - if Quick isn't ready to go - that we put Bailey outside instead of Givens or Sasser (if he's still on the team).

I often wonder if we haven't limited ourselves offensively by trying to get the ball to the star picked 8th overall instead of just going with Bailey, whom I think runs crisper routes wherever you line him up.

 

[V3]

I don't know what you'd think of V-Jax or Demaryius Thomas or Jeremy Maclin, or hell, even Megatron, who's probably the best wide receiver in the game today. None of them got 1,000 yards in their first two seasons. Hell, Maclin took five years to get to 1,000 yards. V-Jax took four years. Santonio Holmes took four years. Dez Bryant took three years to get to 1,000. Roddy White? Three years. Miles Austin? Four years. Emmanuel Sanders? Five years. Eric Decker? Three years. Steve Smith Sr.? Three years. Future Hall of Famer Reggie Wayne? Four years to get to 1,000 yards and double digit touchdowns. Marvin Harrison? Four years. Cris Carter? Seven years just to get to 1,000 yards. Andre Reed? Five years. Tim Brown? Four years with a passing team in the Raiders. Art Monk? Five years. Michael Irvin? Four years. Wes Welker? Three years when he first got playing time.

Do you expect every receiver to come into the league like A.J. Green or OBJ?

Nope. But I do expect to see traits conducive to a #1 show up in games their first couple years. I expect him to "flash". I'm sure people will want to claim he's flashed against Indy but that was because their DC was being stupid. Read CoachO's assessment if you don't agree.

An elite WR will have traits other than just speed and quickness. He hasn't shown the ability to run precise routes, fight for balls, or beat his man on the LOS. Hell, he hasn't shown that he can catch reliably. He can't go for jump balls(mediocre vert, short arms, and poor ball skills), doesn't read/adjust to defenses well, can't block, gets taken down WAY too easily- almost always first touch, has a catch radius the size of a beachball, etc. I expect an elite WR to be able to do all these things. He hasn't shown that he can do these things. He hasn't even flashed the ability. I expect him to improve on some of them but some you can't teach. IMO, he's a gimmick/role player that will never live up to his draft status. By all means, Tavon, prove me wrong.

 

[DCH]

I will address the last part first. I hate the idea of thinking that a raw rookie who has never played the position before, would ever be a consideration. The primary focus of the position is all about the mental side. My thought has always been to count the Center as "half a blocker". He is there to make sure everyone is on the same page first and foremost. So, no, I doubt seriously any of the rookies will be moved.

I was fairly indifferent as far as Rhaney goes. I think he is athletic, but I just didn't see much to think he can be the answer. To me, LAST YEAR, he was the classic, rookie, who was able to be successful in college solely because he was more athletic than his competition. If he comes back this year, bigger and stronger, than yes, he can compete for the job. But IMO, he is still a year away to being a legitimate contender. He should provide depth.

So, by process of elimination, it should come down to Barnes and Jones. My personal feeling, is that it's Barnes' job to lose at this point. They have had him here for 4 years, and he is a prime example of the developmental guy, who has gotten bigger, stronger, and is the most experienced of the two. Jones will have to prove he can A) Stay healthy, and B) himself gotten bigger and stronger.

Either way, IMO, whichever guy comes out on the other side of training camp,will be good to very good. I think Fisher and Boudreau have shown they have enough confidence in both. I doubt it was ever in their plan to draft a "plug and play" rookie at this position.

Thanks for the insight. How do you envision guys like Morse and Marpet who were drafted with the thought of playing center, despite not having done so in college? Also Cann to a lesser degree, and Erving with his very short experience at the position?

 

[WvuIN02]

Shrug, I think people on this forum either do not know who their head coach is and what he does do well and what he does not do well (which is related to his philosophy)....or are just being willfully ignorant.

Let's play trivia.

What are the names of the 1000 yard receivers Jeff Fisher has coached in his TWENTY year career as a HC in the NFL. I can name them, on two fingers.

 

[DCH]

Shrug, I think people on this forum either do not know who their head coach is and what he does do well and what he does not do well (which is related to his philosophy)....are are just being willfully ignorant.

Let's play trivia.

What are the names of the 1000 yard receivers has Jeff Fisher coached in his TWENTY year career as a HC in the NFL. I can name them, on two fingers.

Derrick Mason and Drew Bennett... Mason did it like 5 times.

 

[WvuIN02]

Yup....4...but yea, its not part of what he does really. He drafted Tavon with the idea to run an offense like Sam had in college, then did a 180.....sorry but if Tavon played for a team like Philly he would at least be used like DJ was. Even then, Austin hasnt had a non practice squad level QB other than a handful of games with Bradford, and then he went down and teams were not scared of anything passing related to the Rams.

I wouldnt have taken him with that early of a pick either, but there is a lot of things going on with this situation. I have the fear he will be Welker 2.0 if the Rams give him away to a team who knows what to do with him. Schotty sure as hell did not.

Hopefully a new OC and Foles will help him make huge strides this year.